If there is a problem with the summary, I'll edit it out (when I read here next, or someone else can mod it if they have the ability)
Okay, looked over the Starter set...and...I'm in shock slightly. It's NOT GEARED towards newbies really. It is...but it isn't. Let me explain.
It has a really good introduction in the Player's Book, or what you should read first. That's a good thing. It has the new player start reading through a choose your own adventure. This is a VERY GOOD idea and a VERY GOOD WAY of introducing roleplaying to someone brand new to the game.
However, there the problems start. It appears as if someone forgot some basic editing...at least from my read through of it. It isn't just misspelled words. I have plenty of those, which you'll notice in this post. I even have a ton of grammar errors. I can understand that, and normally don't mind the minor mistakes in any of the Books WotC has put out. These are a little more than minor. For example, the fighter may NEVER learn what his Constitution score is. There is a portion in the book where it asks you to make a roll. If you hit you go to a section which explains your Constitution score. If you miss, you NEVER go to that section...EVER.
In addition, it tosses around terms such as 1d4, 1d8 casually as if a reader should know what that means automatically. I know what it means, but how about some youngster with no prior experience in this...they may just look at that and try to figure out what it's telling them!
The biggest complaint I have other than that, is that it's made for creating one character only. If your character dies, you have to go read through the ENTIRE BOOK AGAIN just to create a new character. This may be fun the first four or five times you go through it, but after that, it's going to get tedious.
They advertise Heroes of the Fallen Lands in the DMB (Dungeon Master's Book) and that's acceptable, but if they don't have a way to create characters on your own...then your still stuck reading through the Player's Book every time you want to play.
That's a pretty BIG slap for the Essentials line, in my eyes. Not that great.
Furthermore, there is no real comprehensive list of the powers. This could be a bonus, or a minus.
Instead of a listing in the book, you get some cardstock that's perforated into cards. These are like the powercards that you can buy, but for the characters in the set. All your powers are written out this way. You are given a few of the power abilities in the book for you basic start, but after that you have to search through the cards to find your power. You then take the power card to learn what you can do.
Some will find that a great idea and think it's the greatest thing since sliced Pie. I'm not too fond of this by itself. I'd rather have a list in the book from which players can copy their character powers onto something else first. I wouldn't mind if they had BOTH a list in the book, and the cards, but I don't like the idea of cards only. This is only a personal preference though, and some will REALLY like it.
Another gripe is they discuss Initiative and initiative modifiers, but really don't discuss how you get it. That's not all that great. As it's written without that information, the monsters will almost always have the advantage of initiative. Not as bad as somone never figuring out what their Constitution is (unless of course they cheat and start reading the choose your own adventure as a book straight through instead of turning to the relavent section), but still, kind of irksome.
A little editing would have shown these problems on the first read through. I noticed them on my first perusal of the book. Maybe I'm blind and didn't notice these things in the book, even after going back and trying to find them...which could be possible, but if I'm not blind, I kind of find it appalling such obvious things would be missing.
On the bright side, I think the choose your own adventure format is excellent in introducing players...but they may have a few obstacles in getting through it.
The DMB on the otherhand is excellent. They have a ton of information in it, all crowded into one book which will basically allow a DM to create as many adventures as they desire. It allows characters to advance up to level 2, and though no XP is given, tells them that they can advance to level 3 even.
It covers all the essentials not covered in the PHB, from skills, to combat, to adventure design, and more. It also has a lot of encounters to get your hands wet, and then a nice little monster manual at the back. It's like they had two different writers. One for the PB, and one for the DMB. The DMB is superior in EVERYWAY to the PB. I would rate the DMB excellent and it saves the set.
With this set, people can create character after character after character, and keep playing for a while. If people can get through the character creation, I would rate this as the best introductory set since the 3.5 Black Dragon Basic set. It's a very good set overall, and can allow people to play for hours, days, weeks, months, etc. with just this set alone.
That said, it will take some dissecting for the new players to understand things at times, especially those items explained in the PB.
The items that come with it, are the aforementioned PB and DMB, 4 character sheets, a large map, 56 tokens, with 12 character tokens, 5 action point tokens, 36 (different monsters on front and back) monster tokens, and 3 large tokens representing a black dragon, a white dragon and what I think is a horse with a zombie, gelatinous cube, and Dire wolf on the back of those three tokens.
You get 6 black dice with whhite numbers.
Seven cardstock sheets perforated with 9 cards apiece (for a total of 63 cards, some of the cards are treasure cards however)
A piece of paper the size of an index card with a code for your free solo adventure.
And finally a sheet advertising the essentials line with the Dungeon Master's Kit, the Rules Compenium, the Dungeon Tiles, and the Monster Vault.
So that's the preview for you who haven't gotten it, or those just visiting looking for more information.
Finally, I'm posting an Aid to character creation and some essential stuff that SHOULD have been included in the set. Note, this is ALL abbreviated overall, but should be understood easily by someone who has actually read the PB in the starter set. If it is too much, I suppose Wizards could take out that part, but as I said, it's just an abbreviation and will be useless overall to someone who doesn't have the set...and for those who already know the rules well, it won't be of any use. For many of the items, such as the powers, they are MORE FULLY explained on your powercards, this list is just a reminder of what you are looking at when creating your character. Your powercards are the items that you need to use to get the full information. The same goes for some of the other information.
I would hope that Wizards would actually create a support page. They can even take the stuff I've typed out here and modify it (I haven't really checked over the spelling or grammar) and post it on the site somewhere for new players to grasp some of the ideas better, as well as having an easier time making their second or third character. The first time is fun reading through the adventure...after that....
Anyways, onto the guide...
[spoiler]
I think the following will be the summary I will be using for introductory players. Be SURE to copy out the Character sheets and use them to fill out and keep track of things as you go down your selections. Once again this is simply a summary to aid Players (mostly) in their choices, and occasionally the DM in helping the players make choices. It's made so you can see the summary information at a glance without having to shift through various materials.
The biggest relavent pages to refer to in the PB that isn't fully explained are
Alignments = Page 18
Modifiers Page 20
Skills = Page 21
Races = page 28-29
Actions in a round = page 30
Power cards and Key words = back of the book
Note before beginning in case you didn't understand...a d = dice. So a d4 = a four sided die, the pyramid shaped dice. A d6 is a cube shaped dice, with six sides. The d8 is the dice with 8 numbers on it, or it appears like two pyramids stuck together. The d10 is the only dice which is unusual in that it's not the perfect polyhedral like the others, 1-10 as it is a ten sided die. The d12 has 12 hexagon shaped sides and is a twelve sided die. The final die, the biggest, and most like a sphere, is numbered 1-20. This is a d20, or a 20 sided die.
You already know the overall character creation from the PB walkthrough. When creating your characters the next time, you can use the following to see all the options you have available in your creation process. If you really want it more in depth, go back to the PB and read through it.
Fighter
Abilities
Strength: 18 (mod +4) [elf/halfling Strength: 16 (mod +3)]
Constitution 14 (mod +2)
Assign stats of 13, 12, 11, 10 however you want to Desterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma)
(Elf gets +2 to either Intelligence or Wisdom and +2 to your Dexterity)
(Halfling gets +2 to Dexterity)
Speed: 5 (Elf = Speed 6)
Weapon selection
Great Sword (+4 to hit) [+8 to hit total] 1d10 damage+ 6 (Str and Cons Modifiers, this is +5 if you are an elf or halfling)
Great Axe (+3 to hit ) [+7 to hit total] 1d12 damage6 (Str and Cons Modifiers, this is +5 if you are an elf or halfling)
Armor
Scale Armor (AC 17)
Other Defenses
Fortitude 12 + Strength Modifier (16 for Human or dwarf, 15 for Elf or Halfling)
Reflex 10+ either Dexterity or Intelligence Modifier (+1 if human)
Will 10+ either Wisdom or Charisma Modifier (+1 if human)
Hitpoints (Constitution +15 = 29 Hitpoints)
Bloodied value = 14
Healing Surges (heal 1/4 HP rounded down)
9+Constitution Mod (+2) = 11
Stances/At Will Powers
Poised Asault +1 to Hit [+9 to hit total with sword, +8 total with Axe]
Battle fury +2 dmg [1d10+2 dmg with sword, 1d12+2 dmg with axe]
Power Strike (encounter power with dmg according to what wpn you use)
Skills: choose 3 skills (humans choose 4 skills) from Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, or Streetwise.
Equipment and Magic Items
Scale Armor, Weapon (either Great Sword or Great Axe), adventurer's kit (backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, 10 days trail rations, 50 feet of rope, 2 sunrods, waterskin)
Wealth: 10 GP
Wizard
Intelligence 18 (mod +4) [Dwarf Intelligence: 16 (mod +3)
Constitution 12 (mod +1) [Dwarf Constitution: 14 (mod +2)
Assign stats of 14, 13, 11, 10 however you want to Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma)
(Dwarf gets +2 to either Strength or Wisdom)
(Elf gets +2 to either Intelligence and +2 to your Dexterity)
(Halfling gets +2 to Dexterity and +2 to either Charisma or Constitution)
Speed: 6 (Elf = Speed 7)
At Will spells (int mod bonus to hit, so +4 to hit) you get 3 Choices of
Stone Blood (vs Fort) dmg 1d6+Int mod dmg to everyone in a burst 1, targets slowed)
Freezing Burst (vs Ref) dmg 1d6+Int mod dmg to everyone in burst 1, slide target one square)
Phantasmal Force (vs Will) 1d10+Int mod dmg to target, grants combat advantage
Magic Missile (2+Int mod dmg)
You also get cantrips that can be cast freely
Mage Hand (spectral hand that can pick up to 20 lbs and move 5 squares)
Ghost sound (sound comes from target)
Light (light for 5 minutes for all within 4 squares)
Choose two of these encounter spells
Burning Hands (r; 2d6+ Int mod dmg)
Charm of misplaced wrath (w; slide target 3 squares and daze it one turn, target attacks creature of your choice)
Illusory obstacles (w; target dazed, unable to charge)
Leaden Transmutation (f; 2d8+Int mod dmg, target slowed, cannot shift)
Choose two of these daily spells
Foutain of flame (r; 3d8+Int Mod, zone there causing 5 dmg till end of encounter)
slimy transmutation (f; target turns into a tiny toad, dazed, can only move or shift)
phantom chasm (w; 2d6+Int mod dmg, target falls prone, immobilized till end of next turn)
sleep (w; target is slowed, if fails first save, target is unconscious).
(you can only prepare one encounter and one daily spell per day in the morning)
Armor (none) (AC 14) (Dwarf AC: 13)
Other Defenses
Fortitude 10 + Strength or Constitution Modifier (+1 if human)
Reflex 10+ either Dexterity or Intelligence Modifier (+1 if human)
Will 12+ either Wisdom or Charisma Modifier (+1 if human)
Hitpoints (Constitution +10 = 22) [Dwarf Constitution +10 = 24 Hitpoints]
Bloodied Value = 11 [ Dwarves Bloodied Value=12]
Healing Surges (heal 1/4 HP rounded down)
6+Constitution Mod (+1) = 7 [Dwarf 6+2 = 8 Surges]
Skills: You have the Arcana skill. YOu get to choose 3 skills (humans choose 4 skills) from Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, History, Insight, Nature, and Religion
Equipment and Magic Items
Implement (must be an orb, staff, or wand)
Spellbook, adventurer's kit (backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, 10 days trail rations, 50 feet of rope, 2 sunrods, waterskin)
Wealth: 25 GP
Rogue
Dexterity 18 (mod +4) [Dwarf Dexterity:16 (mod +3)]
Constitution 13 (mod +1) [Dwarf Constitution: 15 (mod +2)
Assign stats of 14, 12, 11, 10 however you want to Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma)
(Dwarf gets +2 to either Strength or Wisdom)
(Elf gets +2 to either Intelligence or Wisdom)
(Halfling +2 to either Charisma or Constitution)
Speed: 6 (Elf = Speed 7)
Weapon (add dex to hit)
Dagger (+3 to hit) [+7 total to hit// unless Dwarf, Dwarf has a +6 total to hit]
Damage = 1d4
Armor
Leather (AC12) Add Dexterity Modifier (Real AC = AC+ Dex Mod = 16 [ 15 if you are a Dwarf]
Other Defenses
Fortitude 10 + Strength or Constitution Modifier (+1 if human)
Reflex 12+ either Dexterity or Intelligence Modifier (+1 if human)
Will 10+ either Wisdom or Charisma Modifier (+1 if human)
Hitpoints (Constitution +12 =25) [Dwarf Constitution+12 = 27]
Bloodied Value 12 [Dwarf Bloodied Value 13]
Healing Surges (heal 1/4 HP rounded down)
6+Constitution Mod (+1) = 7 [Dwarf 6+2 = 8 Surges]
Powers (use Dexterity modifier to dice rolls) choose one
Bump and Run (vs AC) 1d6+dex mod dmg and push target 1 square, you move 1/2 speed as part of action
Defensive Strike (vs AC) 1d6+ dex mod dmg, +1 to all defenses till end of your next turn
You also get
Sneak Attack (whe you have combat advantage, deal extra 2d6 damage)
Backstab (only use once per encounter) (+3 to hit)
Deft Strike (move 2 squares, 1d6+Dex mod dmg)
'Nimble Poositioning (Shift 2 squares)
Athletic Advance (move 1+str mod, ignore difficult terrain)
Skills: You have Stealth and Thievery, You get to choose 2 more skills (3 skills if you are human) from Bluff, Dungeoneering, Insight, Intimidate, Peception, and Streetwise
Equipment and Magic Items
Leather Armor, Dagger, adventurer's kit (backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, 10 days trail rations, 50 feet of rope, 2 sunrods, waterskin), Thieves Tools
Wealth: 40 GP
Cleric
Wisdom 18 (mod +4) [Halfling Wisdom: 16 (mod +3)]
Constitution 13 (mod +1) [Dwarf Constitution: 15 (mod +2)
Assign stats of 14, 12, 11, 10 however you want to Desterity, Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma)
(Dwarf gets +2 to either Strength or Wisdom)
(Elf gets +2 to your Dexterity)
(Halfling gets +2 to Dexterity and +2 to either Charisma or Constitution)
Speed: 5 (Elf = Speed 6)
Armor
Chainmail (AC16)
Heavy Shield (+2 AC) [Total AC 18]
Weapon (add Wisdom mod +2 bonus to Hit rolls)
Mace (+6 total to hit) (note: book says +8 on table, it also says you are wielding a sword, the table is misleading and not accurate)
dmg = 1d8+4
Implement (use wisdom mod bonus to hit rolls in attacks with this)
Implement (+4 to hit)
Powers (choice of Cleric of protection and the sun or Cleric of Destruction and the storm)
Cleric of Protection and the Sun (use weapon/mace)
Brand of the Sun (You and allys within 5 squares gain 2 temporary hitpoints; take these hitpoints off your total first) (vs AC) 1d8+Wis mod dmg
Blessing of Battle
Soothing Light (+2 to a saving throw)
Sun Burst (w; 1d8+wis mod, you and allies in burst gaing 5 temp hp and can make 1 saving throw)
Lesser avatar of radiance (gives you and allies within 5 squares bonus to death saving throws)
Cleric of Destruction and the Storm (use weapon/mace)
Storm Hammer (vs AC) 1d8+Wis mod dmg
Blessing of Wrath
Echoes of Thunder (2d8+Wis mod dmg, allies deal +3 dmg to target)
Storm Surge (+4 dmg on next melee attack)
Lesser avatar of storms (resist 5 lightning and thunder)
Both Cleric types get
Healing Word (target can spend healing surge, regain 1d6 more hp, only used twice per encounter)
And get to choose one of the following daily attack powers
nimbus of holy shielding (w; 1d10+Wis mod, allies get +2 to defense till encounter end)
Lesser aspect of wrath (1d8+Wis mod dmg, +10 temp HP, +1 to attack, enemy takes Cons Mod dmg if adjacent, till end of encounter)
Levy of judgement (2d8+Wis mod dmg, once When ally misses this target can reroll that attack)
Hitpoints (Constitution +12 =25) [Dwarf Constitution+12 = 27]
Bloodied Value 12 [Dwarf Bloodied Value 13]
Healing Surges (heal 1/4 HP rounded down)
7+Constitution Mod (+1) = 8 [Dwarf 7+2 = 9 Surges]
Skills: You have Religion, you get to choose 3 more skills (humans choose 4 more skills) from Arcana, Diplomacy, Heal, History, and Insight.
Equipment and Magic Items
Chainmail Armor, Mace, Holy Symbol (implement), adventurer's kit (backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, 10 days trail rations, 50 feet of rope, 2 sunrods, waterskin)
Wealth: 30 GP
ALL:
Alignment choices - choose 1 - Lawful Good, Good, unaligned
Ability Modifiers
10-11 +0
12-13 +1
14-15 +2
16-17 +3
18 +4
Choose one Feat (two if you are human
Defensive Mobility (+2 AC vs Opportunity attacks)
Durable (add 2 healing surges)
Improved Initiative (+4 to initiative checks)
Jack of All Trades (+2 to untrained skill checks)
Skill Focus (+3 to one skill)
Toughness (+5 hitpoints, modify bloodied value and healing surges)
I could NOT find it in the book at my browsing, but your initiative modifier will be equal to your Dexterity Modifier (and of course add any feat bonuses for initiative to that). If you go up to level 2, add +1 to this initiative modifier.
Dwarfs
Language: Common, Dwarven
+2 to Dungeoneering and Endurance skills
Low light vision
Cast-iron stomcah (+5 to Saving throws vs poison)
Dwarven resilience (use second wind as minor action)
Stand your Ground (move 1 less square then forced, make saves vs. knocked prone)
Elves
Language: Common, Elven
Low light vision
Wild Step (ignore difficult terrain
Group Awareness (non-elf allies get +1 bonus to perception)
Elven accuracy (reroll failed attack roll)
Halfling
Languages : Roll d6 [1=Deep speech, 2= Draconic, 3=Dwarven, 4=Elven, 5=Goblin, 6=Primordial)
+2 to Acrobatics and Thievery skills
Bold +5 to saving trhwos against fear
Nimble Reaction +2 AC against opportunity attacks
Second chance (forces enemy to reroll an attack against you
Human
Languages : Roll d6 [1=Deep speech, 2= Draconic, 3=Dwarven, 4=Elven, 5=Goblin, 6=Primordial)
Human versatality (+4 to attack, skill check, abilty chekc, or saving throw)
For Dungeon Masters
Goblins from PB
Initiative +3
Armor Class 15, Fortitiude 13, Reflex 15, Will 13
Hitpoints: 1 (missed attacks never hurt minions)
Speed: 6
Melee - Shortsword: +6 vs AC, deals 4 damage
Ranged - Shortbow: +6 vs AC, deals 4 damage
Tactics: when missed with a melee attck, goblin shifts 1 square as an immediate reaction
Cards, and magic items cards.
Everyone gets ONE second Wind card. They can play this card ONCE per encounter.
Second Wind (+2 defense until start of next turn, use healing surge)
Minor Resurgence (if lboodied, gain 5 temporary hp)
Sudden Sprint (if trained in athletics, move Const mod squares, must end next to enemy)
Sudden Leap (if trained in athletics, move half your speed)
Tumble (if trained in acrobatics, shift your speed)
Shield (if hit, immune to force damage, +4 to AC and reflex until end of next turn)
Expeditious Retreat (shift 2x speed)
Spectral Image (illusion of medium size with sounds and defenses 10, remains until touched, or encounter end)
Bless (+1 to attack till end of encounter)
Shield of Faith (+2 to AC until end of encounter)
Resurgent Strength (target spends healing surge, +4 to damage until end of your next turn)
Potion of Healing (spend healing surge but regain 10 HP instead)
+1 Lifedrinker GreatAxe (if score critical, +1d6 dmg, if target is to 0 HP, gain +5 temporary HP)
+1 Darkleaf Leather Armor (+2 AC against first attack each encounter)
+1 Magic Staff (+1 to hit and damage with powers, critical deal +1d6 dmg)
+2 chainmail Armor
Bag of Holding (hold up to 200 lbs, only weights 1 lbs)
+1 Amulet of health (+1 Fort, Ref, Will, reduce poison dmg by 5)
[/spoiler]
I think the gist of the red box is to allow someone who has never played D&D to grab the contents of the game, and with little prep time, start playing. If details are missing- I am fine with that. When I host my Red Box party bash I will be playing with five newbies. The complaints you have actually will make it easier for me to teach them the game. I'll throw the character sheets at them and start playing.
The card stock cards will save them from chugging through a book.
I wanted to like this set. I really did. And frankly it gets a LOT of things right. But that's not enough to make up for what it gets wrong.
There's typos and errors a-plenty. The Red Box claims its rogue is an abbreviated version of the "thief rogue" in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, but it doesn't match what we saw of that class in the Ampersand preview.
Yeah, the intro adventure is a nice idea. But I think it would have been better to go the Mentzer route and just run the solo adventure for 1 class (maybe 2) to introduce the game rules. Then go into character creation rules, complete with equipment lists and power choices. Going all the way to Level 3 would be better, but Levels 1-2 would be fine, if it was all there. How much space does it take to do abbreviated writeups of 4 races and 4 classes (1 build each)? 12 pages? 16? Throw in a couple more for equipment tables and attributes and you're at, what, 24 pages? If the Player's Book had to be 48 or 64 pages rather than 32 to accomplish this, it would be worth it - even if you had to jack the price of the set up five bucks.
Then all you'd have to do is reorganize the DM book and include a decent number of magic items. This box has 7...I'll point out the Mentzer set had 53 (I counted).
And yeah, it's nice that you can play through the solo adventure with each of the 4 classes...but not at the cost of these other things. The Mentzer Red Box fit all of its intro bits into 23 pages. It then spent the next 41 (yes, its Players Manual was 64 pages) on character creation and game rules - for 7 classes. I realize there's more to D&D now than there used to be, but seriously...
There are several typos and such in the character sheets too, but whatever. It's having the wrong numbers when trying to teach new players that's most disturbing to me.
I was just looking at the pre-made characters for Red Box Game Day and some of the ability modifiers are wrong. Several characters have an Ability Score of 8 and a modifier of 0. It's really kind of odd; they can be found here www.wizards.com/dnd/files/RedBoxCharacte...
There are several typos and such in the character sheets too, but whatever. It's having the wrong numbers when trying to teach new players that's most disturbing to me.
I think there level 2. So 8 (-1) + 1/2 level = 0
Except the "new & improved" version will most likely errata the old one.
WotC can't have it both ways.
Does Wizards plan on using errata to replace the older version? What a mess for Wizards spells then.
Except the "new & improved" version will most likely errata the old one.
WotC can't have it both ways.
Does Wizards plan on using errata to replace the older version? What a mess for Wizards spells then.
They'll have to errata the old ones. Though i doupt it's ALL the old ones, probably (guessing) about 1/level.
Except the "new & improved" version will most likely errata the old one.
WotC can't have it both ways.
Does Wizards plan on using errata to replace the older version? What a mess for Wizards spells then.
Did they use the same name in both places? If so, then the Essentials version is an update of the previous version. They would have to have given the new version a different name if they intended to keep both versions around (which is what I wish they had done in those cases where the two versions of the spell differed but both were perfectly usable, as with Magic Missile).
On the dice issue… they do explain how they're using the dX terminology the VERY FIRST TIME they use it. They don't just throw around d4 and d8: they say, "find the 4-sided die, called hereafter d4." The others follow suite. Seriously, some people are too harsh on this.
The cards are a great way of working it! A list is difficult and unmalleable. It can be overwhelming for new players. Cards – you find the card you need, grab it, and use it! You can flip it over too. This is a good thing.
I found the Player's Book great. Changing my character -is- a bothersome thing, going through the entire encounter again; however, that doesn't seem the purpose of the book at all, to me. It's for making your first character, not every character. It's a way to start the game, and if you want to keep playing or make new characters, you should buy the complete book rather than the Starter Set.
I have the Red Box as well.
On the dice issue… they do explain how they're using the dX terminology the VERY FIRST TIME they use it. They don't just throw around d4 and d8: they say, "find the 4-sided die, called hereafter d4." The others follow suite. Seriously, some people are too harsh on this.
The cards are a great way of working it! A list is difficult and unmalleable. It can be overwhelming for new players. Cards – you find the card you need, grab it, and use it! You can flip it over too. This is a good thing.
I found the Player's Book great. Changing my character -is- a bothersome thing, going through the entire encounter again; however, that doesn't seem the purpose of the book at all, to me. It's for making your first character, not every character. It's a way to start the game, and if you want to keep playing or make new characters, you should buy the complete book rather than the Starter Set.
My oldest boy (age 9*) chose to play as a halfling rogue. He was tripped up both by a reference to 1d4 and by not following a path where constitution is explained.
While he had gone through the bit where the Player's Book explained rolling a four-sided die being written as, "Roll the d4 [26]," he was a bit lost when told damage for his chosen "Bump and run" power was "1d4 + your Dexterity modifier" [31]. I could not quickly find anywhere the book explained that 1d4 meant "roll a d4 one time".
The dots were almost--but not quite--connected for a new player.
Regarding constitution, my boy rolled luckily enough to escape the first part of the adventure without his character taking any damage, so the score for constitution was still empty starting the 2nd part of the adventure. The adventure attempts to resolve this [58] by sending you back to a prior step [29]. Unfortunately, you are asked to use your constitution modifier when starting the 2nd part of the adventure [45] before you are asked to go back for the explanation. Further, the prior step does not start off with instructions for filling in constitution but with, "The goblin's attack does 4 damage to you."
Again, it could be less confusing. Experience with the game let's us understand the what to ignore and what to take away, but the red box is intended for those with no experience.
Another quibble, the player is asked [83] to fill in passive Insight and passive Perception on their character sheet. Where? And why? I don't see it used anywhere in the adventure.
I would say these issues support the original poster's contention that this set isn't entirely successful as the sole introduction for new players. It was obviously written by someone experienced in the system and perhaps not actually play-tested by those with no experience.
Issues aside, my boy had a lot of fun.
* Yeah, 9. Yes, I know that's younger than the 12+ stated for the set. But my Moldvay set was for "10 and up," and I was thrilled for him to get his own boxed set... and dice!
They will either errata the whole MU spell list in PHB or the new & improved are the only ones that will be in CB from that point forward.
It's how I'd do it if I was attempting a shadow revision, which is what this is becoming. Maybe if they slowed down their print schedule, actually edited things once in a while, they wouldn't feel the need to do a .5 every two years. I don't know anything, that's just me.
Shadow revision? Horse hockey!
We were told about the changes to the Wizard Encounter spell list in early July.
From the Countdown to Essentials article on July 6, 2010:
The Most Important Thing to Remember
If you’re already playing a Dungeons & Dragons game, there’s one very important thing to remember—the Essentials products matter only as much as you want them to. We very carefully designed the new classes and added more options to the races in such a way that existing characters remain unchanged. Aside from the rules updates introduced over the past few months, of which the relevant pieces are included in the Rules Compendium, little (if anything) on your character sheet has changed. The only real changes rest in wizard encounter spells (they have miss effects now), and those changes are almost entirely additive in nature. Your burning hands spell is the same spell as before, except now it deals half damage on a miss.
Whether or not you think this is enough to push us into 4.5 territory or not, one thing this wasn't was sneaky. They didn't try to "slip one past us" with the Wizard Encounter spells, they told us they were doing this from the outset.
An interesting thing I saw was that the burning hands is a changed power that actually works. It does 2d6 damage and half on a miss. The old one did 3d6 with no half damage. That doesn't replace burning hands but offers a different way to use it- full damage or slightly less damage with half on miss. That is compatible with phb1.
The Burning Hands in my Player's Handbook deals 2d6 + Int on a hit, and no effect on a miss.
The Burning Hands in Essentials will apparently deal 2d6 + Int on a hit, and half damage on a miss.
The half damage version will replace the PHB version, with no reduction in power. It has always been 2d6 + Int.
They will either errata the whole MU spell list in PHB or the new & improved are the only ones that will be in CB from that point forward.
It's how I'd do it if I was attempting a shadow revision, which is what this is becoming. Maybe if they slowed down their print schedule, actually edited things once in a while, they wouldn't feel the need to do a .5 every two years. I don't know anything, that's just me.
Shadow revision? Horse hockey!
We were told about the changes to the Wizard Encounter spell list in early July.
From the Countdown to Essentials article on July 6, 2010:The Most Important Thing to Remember
If you’re already playing a Dungeons & Dragons game, there’s one very important thing to remember—the Essentials products matter only as much as you want them to. We very carefully designed the new classes and added more options to the races in such a way that existing characters remain unchanged. Aside from the rules updates introduced over the past few months, of which the relevant pieces are included in the Rules Compendium, little (if anything) on your character sheet has changed. The only real changes rest in wizard encounter spells (they have miss effects now), and those changes are almost entirely additive in nature. Your burning hands spell is the same spell as before, except now it deals half damage on a miss.
Whether or not you think this is enough to push us into 4.5 territory or not, one thing this wasn't was sneaky. They didn't try to "slip one past us" with the Wizard Encounter spells, they told us they were doing this from the outset.
An interesting thing I saw was that the burning hands is a changed power that actually works. It does 2d6 damage and half on a miss. The old one did 3d6 with no half damage. That doesn't replace burning hands but offers a different way to use it- full damage or slightly less damage with half on miss. That is compatible with phb1.The Burning Hands in my Player's Handbook deals 2d6 + Int on a hit, and no effect on a miss.
The Burning Hands in Essentials will apparently deal 2d6 + Int on a hit, and half damage on a miss.
The half damage version will replace the PHB version, with no reduction in power. It has always been 2d6 + Int.
Thanks for the correction- I don't know why I was thinking 3d6. On further thought from what you have posted there, sir, I would agree that a revision to the Wizard's spells are not enough to label as a revision (4.0 to 4.5). We agree- it's Armageddon time.
Shadow revision?
We were told about the changes to the Wizard Encounter spell list in early July.Whether or not you think this is enough to push us into 4.5 territory or not, one thing this wasn't was sneaky. They didn't try to "slip one past us" with the Wizard Encounter spells, they told us they were doing this from the outset.
If you think Essentials constitutes a new revision, then the fact that WotC is not calling it that, makes it a 'shadow revision,' yes. If.
Heck, WotC isn't just not calling Essentials '4.5,' they come right out and say it isn't 4.5 - repeatedly. In no uncertain terms. It's just options - that you don't have to use... well, unless you want to play Encounters. It's completely compatible - designed to be completely compatible with 4e... you just need all the new updates that change things around, so that it's compatible. But they're really very small, minor, updates, like all the Wizard's Encounters spells - hey, compared to the thousands of other powers in the game, that's 'small,' right?
If you don't think that constitutes a revision, it can't very well be a 'shadow revision' in your eyes. (Though, of course, you could just be living proof that they're sneaking it past someone...)
Now, I know that WotC cannot tell a lie, but, I suspect that they may be capable of a little judicious marketing spin.
Heck, WotC isn't just not calling Essentials '4.5,' they come right out and say it isn't 4.5 - repeatedly. In no uncertain terms. It's just options - that you have to use... well, unless you want to play Encounters. It's completely compatible - designed to be completely compatible with 4e... you just need all the new updates that change things around, so that it's compatible. But they're really very small, minor, updates, like all the Wizard's Encounters spells - hey, compared to the thousands of other powers in the game, that's 'small,' right?
I think you meant to say, "It's just options - that you don't have to use.... well, unless you want ot play Encounters." If you didn't mean to say that, it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth.
How is the current situation different from any other rules update that this game has ever done? You want to be in an "official" game, you keep up with the errata. If you don't care about "official," you use what is printed in your books and tell the errata to go hang. The previous Skill Challenge rules were replaced by the new ones. The previous Magic Missle was replaced by the new one. The previous Stealth rules were replaced by the new ones. Anything they change in Essentials will replace the previous incarnation, and anything they don't change can still be used as-is.
How is this situation any different from the July update, or the March update, or the December update, or any of the updates to come?
4E was released into the digital age. As such, it is going to be a continually evolving game, receiving constant and regular updates. I am agreeing with some of the other posters here. I don't think there will ever be a "5E." (not for a very long time, anyway) Instead, they will continue to update and improve the rules. If you are bothered by a constantly evolving ruleset, then stick to your books. If you are excited by the idea of a constantly growing and evolving game, then you should be as thrilled as I am.
How is the current situation different from any other rules update that this game has ever done? You want to be in an "official" game, you keep up with the errata.
Y'know, it is a little different. WotC has always called their monthly errata 'updates,' but, until quite recently they were really errata - they were fixing mistakes, be they editing errors or design problems. Now, we really are starting to see 'updates' that are simply changes for - well, I'm not sure - the sake of change? compatibility with some 'new direction?' fitting the vision of slightly different design team? They're changes. Changes can be good, bad, or indifferent - which is a qualitative judgement, in any case.
4E was released into the digital age. As such, it is going to be a continually evolving game, receiving constant and regular updates.
Well, it /can/ go that way, if the publisher wants. The internet makes it more convenient to issue errata or updates more frequently. That could mean an 'evolving' game - it could mean saving some money on quality control, since you can fix mistakes later. Or not. The mere fact that it's 2010 doesn't make all RPGs 'confinually evolving.' Nor does 'continually evolving' mean a game doesn't need to be /good/ if you want people to buy it. And, it's not like the game didn't 'evolve' over the course of it's first 20 years, either. Early 2e was pretty different from later 2e, for instance. AD&D was different pre- vs post- Unearthed Arcana.
I don't think anyone expects the game to always stay the same.... hm... actually, I guess some do, or there wouldn't be so many folks jumping ship with each ed and half-ed. OK, I don't feel it's reasonable to expect the game to always stay the same. I /do/ think it's reasonable to hope that said change will mostly be for the better, at least, 'better' by some criteria.
www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/2912...
Way to go WoTC. Man, I would love to work for a company that doesn't require me to do the job correctly! LOL
Hey WoTC - Time for your new word of the day - PROOFREAD.
Wow, the red box had a street release date of yesterday and already we have this:
www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/2912...
Way to go WoTC. Man, I would love to work for a company that doesn't require me to do the job correctly! LOL
Hey WoTC - Time for your new word of the day - PROOFREAD.
Seems like we're seeing the effects of their budget cuts.
we are waiting for the heroes of the fallen lands to come out before playing the red box adventure. the red box players handbook is pretty much worthless. the red box dm book is of value though & the adventure looks great.
Wow, the red box had a street release date of yesterday and already we have this:
www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/2912...
Way to go WoTC. Man, I would love to work for a company that doesn't require me to do the job correctly! LOL
Hey WoTC - Time for your new word of the day - PROOFREAD.
I was thinking about buying the new red box just to see what it was. (I currently have no D&D 4e products.) Guess I don't need to do that. Hopefully the later Essentials products will be better in this regard.
Wow, the red box had a street release date of yesterday and already we have this:
www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/2912...
Way to go WoTC. Man, I would love to work for a company that doesn't require me to do the job correctly! LOL
Hey WoTC - Time for your new word of the day - PROOFREAD.
I was thinking about buying the new red box just to see what it was. (I currently have no D&D 4e products.) Guess I don't need to do that. Hopefully the later Essentials products will be better in this regard.
the red box is still worth buying except for the players handbook. one of my fondest memories of the red box was that I could create characters and do it fast. I guess the red box is truly meant for those who have never played d&d and is not as independant as the old red box where you had everything there to play up to 3rd level.
I guess the red box is truly meant for those who have never played d&d
And there it fails miserably. This thing is a typical example of WotC RPG design: Awesome ideas, horrible design.
That nobody in the RPG design department is capable of designing a "jump to number X" adventure is epic fail, sorry.
I have the following news for them:
[*] Step 10: You can roll less than 12 on a d20 (if you do so, you don't know what your Con does...)!
[*] Step 37: 4+2 is 6, not 8 (Is the final proof that the WotC design team and QA is incapable of adding up single digit numbers? - ok maybe not, it seems to be a copy/paste error from the fighter)
Well, editing of this thing is abyssmal, no QA, no QC. Over 50% of their potential new players will be pretty frustrated I guess.
Sad, very sad indeed.
Otherwise, they finally got the design of the power cards right and the tokens look awesome.
they need to hire full time editors- editors with either college degrees or have made editing a career.
everyone, and I mean everyone, thinks they are an editor these days.
we as a consumer pay the price for this with error riddled products.
it goes beyond proof reading (although obviously that would help).
a professional editor worth their salt would have taken one look at the players handbook and sent it back to the designers/writers.
Unfortunately, he can't do everything.
I received the red-box today. I never played D&D and tried it with my wife.
We started with a cleric as she wanted a elfen - healer / leader - cleric.
Besides getting a little confused with the two errors like point 37 and not filling out the hitpoints in case you dont receive damage everything worked quite well.
The point we dont understand is, if she uses a regular attack with the mace - she has a +6 attack bonus to do a check if she makes a hit against the monsters AC.
And in the book she uses the at-will power - brand of the sun which gives +2 hitpoints.(point 38)
In the manual it says to do a regular attack check with the attack +6 bonus for the mace.
As its a weapon attack.
- on the powercard it says Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
so should she roll the d20 + wisom modifier? (4) or like the book said a regular mace attack d20 + attack modifier (+6)
So that was really confusing for us!
Also we bought the regular 4th playersbook, and could not find any! of the clerics powers. We did not know that this box uses different powers. That makes it a little bit harder?
Sorry for the newbie questions! Tomorrow we will make another character and maybe things will then clear up even more!
Anyway, for us a good way to get started!
Markus
I think the pick a path adventure (players guide) is a little drawn out and could have been done better. While I hated 2nd edition I do think they put out a lot of good intro products with that edition.
The DMs guide book is really nice and I'm sure once I get the future books it will all fall together nicely.
Editing I'm sorry but for a major company like WoTc / Hasbro they should not have so many spelling errors but what can I do about that?
Hello everyone,
I received the red-box today. I never played D&D and tried it with my wife.
We started with a cleric as she wanted a elfen - healer / leader - cleric.
Besides getting a little confused with the two errors like point 37 and not filling out the hitpoints in case you dont receive damage everything worked quite well.
The point we dont understand is, if she uses a regular attack with the mace - she has a +6 attack bonus to do a check if she makes a hit against the monsters AC.
And in the book she uses the at-will power - brand of the sun which gives +2 hitpoints.(point 38)
In the manual it says to do a regular attack check with the attack +6 bonus for the mace.
As its a weapon attack.
- on the powercard it says Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
so should she roll the d20 + wisom modifier? (4) or like the book said a regular mace attack d20 + attack modifier (+6)
So that was really confusing for us!
Since it is a weapon attack, she also gets to add the weapon's proficiency bonus, which, for a mace, is +2. If the power had been an implement attack, like the Mage uses, it would not have gotten the proficiency bonus and it would have targeted a defense other than Armor Class. Non Armor Class defenses are usually 2 points or more lower than Armor Class (Many monsters have one NAD equal to AC, one two points lower, and one significantly lower, depending on their role)
Also we bought the regular 4th playersbook, and could not find any! of the clerics powers. We did not know that this box uses different powers. That makes it a little bit harder?
This is the problem with releasing the Red Box before they release the Heroes of the Fallen Lands. The Warpriest build and powers your wife was using are detailed in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, coming out later this month (which also include basic character creation rules, more in depth character creeation rules are found in the Plaer's Handbook you bought and in the Rules Compendium releasing at the same time as Heroes of the Fallen Lands, although the Rules Compendium character creation rules need to be used in conjunction with another book that details the powers and features of the class you want to play). The builds and most of the character options and powers in Heroes of the Fallen Lands are new so that the books will have value to old and new players alike.
Sorry for the newbie questions! Tomorrow we will make another character and maybe things will then clear up even more!
Anyway, for us a good way to get started!
Markus
Welcome to the forums, and keep asking questions, its one of the best ways to learn.
each weapon has a proficiency bonus associated with it. this bonus is added to the attack roll when using an attack power. for example~ blessing of wrath, an at-will power from the red box for the cleric has the following on the card:
Cleric Attack 1~ this describes the level of the attack, anywhere from 1-30.
At-Will*Divine, Weapon.~ this tells you that it is an at-will attack and uses the divine power source. the weapon is important because that means you get to add your weapon proficiency to the attack roll. the mace has a +2 weapon proficiency.
So, with the blessing of wrath you roll your Wisdom modifier (+3, I think in the adventure book) and add your weapon proficiency bonus to it. You will roll a d20 and add +5 (+3 for wisdom and +2 for mace proficiency).
If you look at the cleric encounter power, the Sun Burst, you will notice it says the following in the second line:
Encounter* Divine, Implement, Radiant. Since there is no key word weapon, you don't get to add the mace weapon proficiency to the attack roll. this power will use the wisdom modifier of +3 with a d20 roll.
so this built is a battle cleric?
She wanted to play a devoted cleric like mentioned in the (i guess old?) players handbook.
hmm.. maybe we should make a cleric according to the old players book?
Suggested Feat: Channel Divinity feat associated with your deity (Human feat: Human Perseverance)
Suggested Skills: Arcana, Heal, History, Religion
Suggested At-Will Powers: lance of faith, sacred f lame
Suggested Encounter Power: healing strike Suggested Daily Power: beacon of hope
Or wait until the 27th?
If i understand you correctly, the powers and classes and races in the new essential line changed?
thats why we can not find the powers from the redbox in the 4th edition players book we bought?
(we actually bought the gift set with all 3 books to give us some depth with the redbox!)
Thank you
Markus
Thank you guys!
so this built is a battle cleric?
She wanted to play a devoted cleric like mentioned in the (i guess old?) players handbook.
hmm.. maybe we should make a cleric according to the old players book?
The Warpriest from the Red Box (and fully detailed in Heroes of the Fallen Lands) is a Wisdom based melee Cleric.
If she wants to play a Devoted Cleric (also known colloquially as a "Laser Cleric" due to all the radiant damage ranged Powers), then she needs to use the build from the Player's Handbook. Additional powers for this build can be found in Divine Power.
Be warned, the suggested options are just that, suggestions. The Wizards folks who make those suggestion lists are horrible at optimizing characters, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. It is much better to look over the powers and decide for yourself which ones are better.
If i understand you correctly, the powers and classes and races in the new essential line changed?
thats why we can not find the powers from the redbox in the 4th edition players book we bought?
(we actually bought the gift set with all 3 books to give us some depth with the redbox!)
The Cleric from the Red Box (and HoFL) is not "changed." It is just another build option that players may take (like the Battle Cleric and Devoted Cleric in the PHB, or the Shielding Cleric from Divine Power, but with more options pre-chosen for you). In order to make sure the product has the highest value for both veteran and new players, they reprinted as little material as possible, and created as much new material as possible. Probably all of the Cleric powers in Heroes of the Fallen Lands are unique to that book (I'll know better when I get my copy of the book).
The races, however, have gotten a makeover. All of the races reprinted in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, and the upcoming Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms in November, have been updated with the new racial design philosophy introduced in the Player's Handbook 3. This gives all races (except Human) a +2 bonus to one fixed ability score, and then a choice from one of two other ability scores to receive a +2 bonus (For example, all Eladrin will have +2 Intelligence, and then each Eladrin character gets a choice between having a +2 to Dexterity or +2 to Charisma). Eventually all previously released races will be updated to this model.
Will there also be a new built for the devote cleric in HOFL?
As she wantd to play a devote cleric I created one according to the players rule book and used the
generater program.
here it is:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Markus
Thank you Malak,
Will there also be a new built for the devote cleric in HOFL?
As she wantd to play a devote cleric I created one according to the players rule book and used the
generater program.
here it is:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Markus
The character looks good, and any advice from here will be about squeezing every bit of effectiveness as possible (such as the advice you recived about tweaking the ability scores, which is looking ahead all the way to level 30 and referencing a Feat and equipment you don't have yet from the Player's Handbook 3)
The Warpriest isn't a new build for the Battle Cleric, but for the Cleric Class in general. It has a unique focus, just like the other builds have.
Battle Clerics from PHB use Strength as their main ability score and weapon attacks. Their high Strength score allows them to have a secondary focus as a Defender if they take Feat and powers that allow them to Mark enemies.
The Devoted Cleric uses Wisdom to attack foes at a distance.
The Shielding Cleric (found in Divine Power) also uses Wisdom to attack from a distance, but makes use of powers that do less damage in favor of powers that weaken the enemies more, strengthen allies more or provide a greater degree of healing. They sacrifice damage to specialize more heavily in their role as Leader
The Warpriest uses Wisdom for their weapon attacks, and, by choosing a Domain, will have theirAt Will and Encounter Powers picked for them (as appropriate to their Domain chosen) and receive special abilities as they level to make up for the fact that they do not get Ritual Caster for free. Since a Warpriest will be trained in Religion, they can always take Ritual Caster as a Feat choice later in their career.
While your wife's Devoted Cleric won't be able to make use of any of the Warpriest's At -Will or Encounter powers (since they are tied to the ability to choose a Domain), if she wants to mix some melee attacks into her build, she can make effective use of the Daily Powers found in the Red Box and Heroes of the Fallen Lands because those Powers will use Wisdom for their attack rolls. At low levels, she can do this with no loss of effectiveness. At higher levels, it can still be effective, but she will need to make sure she has both a magical Holy Symbol and a magical Weapon of relatively equal power (same Enhancemnt bonus, but not necessarily same level) in order to keep her melee and ranged attacks on par with each other. Whether this can be accomplished depends entirely on how nice your DM is. ;)
I've heard that they'll be rereleasing the red box with different cover art and title font (presumably matching the covers of the books inside). Has anyone else heard this? If so, I hope they fix the errors; I'd probably get it then.
When they first announced the Red Box I recall it being mentioned that the first print would be a homage to the original red box and that subsequent printings would have the "actual cover" for the 4ed red box.