Races?
Classes?
Special new features?
Magic Items?
Rituals?
Feats?
Anything I'm missing?
Thanks in advance....
Githzerai
Wilden
Minotaur
Shardmind
Classes
Psion(Psionic Controller)
Battlemind(Psionic Defender)
Ardent(Psionic Leader)
Monk(Psionic Striker)
Rune Priest(Runepriest?)(Divine Leader)
Seeker(Primal Controller)
Hybrids
Magic Items
Ki Foci
Rituals(I think so)
Feats- Yes
Races:
Githzerai
Wilden
Minotaur
Shardmind
Classes
Psion(Psionic Controller)
Battlemind(Psionic Defender)
Ardent(Psionic Leader)
Monk(Psionic Striker)
Rune Priest(Runepriest?)(Divine Leader)
Seeker(Primal Controller)
Hybrids
Magic Items
Ki Foci
Rituals(I think so)
Feats- Yes
Will that inlcude hybrid rules for all the classes thus far? I don't subscribe to DDI, so I don't know if it's a set system or if it differens by class combo.
It will include hybrids for all published classes so far, phb1, phb2, frpg, epg, and phb3, wish the sole exception of the assassin. Who's hyrbid rules will appear in dragon next month.
TYVM
Don't forget Skill Powers!
Do you mean powers that boost skills, or martial practices(?) (the non-magical skill ritual thing)?
Don't forget Skill Powers!
Do you mean powers that boost skills, or martial practices(?) (the non-magical skill ritual thing)?
No, skill powers are powers that you can take if you are trained in particular skills. One character I have in a DDI subscribing friend's campaign has Fast Hands, an at-will power from being trained in thievery which basically is a boosted quick draw feat. Another character has Haggle, an encounter power which lets him reroll a diplomacy check.
Don't forget Skill Powers!
Do you mean powers that boost skills, or martial practices(?) (the non-magical skill ritual thing)?
No, skill powers are powers that you can take if you are trained in particular skills. One character I have in a DDI subscribing friend's campaign has Fast Hands, an at-will power from being trained in thievery which basically is a boosted quick draw feat. Another character has Haggle, an encounter power which lets him reroll a diplomacy check.
TY for the clarification. It sounds good. I've always felt 4e needed more powers suitable for use in skill chanllenges or otherwise outside of combat.
No, skill powers are powers that you can take if you are trained in particular skills. One character I have in a DDI subscribing friend's campaign has Fast Hands, an at-will power from being trained in thievery which basically is a boosted quick draw feat. Another character has Haggle, an encounter power which lets him reroll a diplomacy check.
TY for the clarification. It sounds good. I've always felt 4e needed more powers suitable for use in skill chanllenges or otherwise outside of combat.
To clarify, they are all utilities. Or at least, that's what I understand the plan to have been.
Feats?
I'm particularly interested in Multiclass Feats.
Mostly I'm just hoping that there's a Monk Multiclass Feat that gives Monk Unarmed Strike (and Implement training, but only because every other multiclass feat grants proficiency in that class's implements). I'm somewhat interested in the Ardent, but only if I can do it as a guy in heavy armor with a shield and no weapon.
It will include hybrids for all published classes so far, phb1, phb2, frpg, epg, and phb3, wish the sole exception of the assassin. Who's hyrbid rules will appear in dragon next month.
TYVM
Really? Woohoo!
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Well, it's a leader, and since all leaders are healers ...
As for the concept ... we don't know. All that is known is that a lot, if not all of it's powers have different effects/riders, depending on which rune state you're in, or which rune state you use for the power, or something along those lines.
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Warlord is arguably a better healer than cleric. Bards are arguably better than that. I have no experience with shamans. Have you given any of them a try?
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Warlord is arguably a better healer than cleric. Bards are arguably better than that. I have no experience with shamans. Have you given any of them a try?
Depends on build. Shaman has best class feature healing. Cleric has the most utility healing.
With the MP2 feat, ChaLords are some of the best healers in the game.
I've never seen Bards as particularly good at healing during combat, though Song of Rest is notable for providing great healing during Short Rests and possible THP if you took the feat and didn't need the HP heal.
Feats?
I'm particularly interested in Multiclass Feats.
Mostly I'm just hoping that there's a Monk Multiclass Feat that gives Monk Unarmed Strike (and Implement training, but only because every other multiclass feat grants proficiency in that class's implements). I'm somewhat interested in the Ardent, but only if I can do it as a guy in heavy armor with a shield and no weapon.
I am curious to see the Novice power equivalents for multiclassing into, out of, or between the psionic classes that use power points.
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Warlord is arguably a better healer than cleric. Bards are arguably better than that. I have no experience with shamans. Have you given any of them a try?
For RP and story purposes, I have a really hard time with Warlords as healers. Bards I can kind of accept because their music is actually magic. But how exactly does someone shouting orders at you heal you? I'd prefer a divine power causing healing.
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Warlord is arguably a better healer than cleric. Bards are arguably better than that. I have no experience with shamans. Have you given any of them a try?
For RP and story purposes, I have a really hard time with Warlords as healers. Bards I can kind of accept because their music is actually magic. But how exactly does someone shouting orders at you heal you? I'd prefer a divine power causing healing.
You only run into this problem if you view damage as wounds rather than bruises and battle-tiredness. From a cinematic perspective warlords as healers are fine. Remember Sarah Connor and Cole Reese? "On your feet soldier!" It's that kind of thing.
Thanks for all the info. Can anyone sum up the concept of the Rune Priest? Is there any chance it will be another type of healer? My party likes to have a dedicated healer and we're getting bored of clerics.
Warlord is arguably a better healer than cleric. Bards are arguably better than that. I have no experience with shamans. Have you given any of them a try?
For RP and story purposes, I have a really hard time with Warlords as healers. Bards I can kind of accept because their music is actually magic. But how exactly does someone shouting orders at you heal you? I'd prefer a divine power causing healing.
HP has always been an abstraction. A more experienced character isn't going to be able to take more physical damage. If I shoot a master martial artist, he'll die just as easily from the damage as someone on the street, assuming i hit them both the same way.
I look at HP as a combination of morale and physical endurance. You spend much of the fight taking small little bruises and bumps, a lot of 'whoa, that could have hurt.' The only hit that actually HAS to have been a real, damaging hit is the one that takes someone to 0.
Things like the Warlord, the ability of any character to heal themselves (second wind) and psychic 'damage' all support this to my mind.
Races:
Githzerai
Wilden
Minotaur
Shardmind
Classes
Psion(Psionic Controller)
Battlemind(Psionic Defender)
Ardent(Psionic Leader)
Monk(Psionic Striker)
Rune Priest(Runepriest?)(Divine Leader)
Seeker(Primal Controller)
Hybrids
Magic Items
Ki Foci
Rituals(I think so)
Feats- Yes
Do we have confirmation that these are the complete lists of classes and races? Or is there a possibility that there could be another few classes/races in the book?
Do we have confirmation that these are the complete lists of classes and races? Or is there a possibility that there could be another few classes/races in the book?
Yes that is the complete list of classes and races. I forgot where the numbers were stated, but we've known that there were only 4 races for a while and I know there is an official comment for there being only 6 classes+hybrids.
For RP and story purposes, I have a really hard time with Warlords as healers. Bards I can kind of accept because their music is actually magic. But how exactly does someone shouting orders at you heal you? I'd prefer a divine power causing healing.
HP has always been an abstraction. A more experienced character isn't going to be able to take more physical damage. If I shoot a master martial artist, he'll die just as easily from the damage as someone on the street, assuming i hit them both the same way.
I look at HP as a combination of morale and physical endurance. You spend much of the fight taking small little bruises and bumps, a lot of 'whoa, that could have hurt.' The only hit that actually HAS to have been a real, damaging hit is the one that takes someone to 0.
Things like the Warlord, the ability of any character to heal themselves (second wind) and psychic 'damage' all support this to my mind.
And if someone still really has a problem with Warlords being good healers, they could have the warlord powers heal more on non-bloodied allies, but only grant temporary HP to bloodied allies (and not as much at that). Say, add half level + Cha mod to HP healed to non-bloodied allies, but healing powers only grant half as many temporary HP to non-bloodied. But it's just easier to go with "OK, heal XdX regardless."
Do we have confirmation that these are the complete lists of classes and races? Or is there a possibility that there could be another few classes/races in the book?
Yes that is the complete list of classes and races. I forgot where the numbers were stated, but we've known that there were only 4 races for a while and I know there is an official comment for there being only 6 classes+hybrids.
So is the Wilden the small race, or the Shardmind?
What happened to the Dromite?
I am really looking forward to seeing what the Rune Priest is like in PHB3
I am also keen to see the full monk and the hybrid and multiclass options for the new classes.
Do we have confirmation that these are the complete lists of classes and races? Or is there a possibility that there could be another few classes/races in the book?
Yes that is the complete list of classes and races. I forgot where the numbers were stated, but we've known that there were only 4 races for a while and I know there is an official comment for there being only 6 classes+hybrids.
So is the Wilden the small race, or the Shardmind?
What happened to the Dromite?
Wilden are Medium, Shardmind are believed to be medium (from leeked character pages plus the 1 picture we have).
There is no small race in PHBIII.
So is the Wilden the small race, or the Shardmind?
What happened to the Dromite?
There is no small race, and the Dromites were never even in consideration for a rumor of being in the PHB3, except by you.
Keep believing that, Mutt.
Not having a small race after the first two books had them (Halfling in the first, Gnome in the second) seems a bit out of character. Four races? Only six classes? I think maybe it was to make room for the Gesalt... sorry, Hybrid characters rules. What I wonder, is there gonna be rules for every combo available, and rules for the new ones in the future releases after this? Or is it something that can be done with one set of rules for combining two classes? It seems, from all the talk, the former.
It is just shocking that it is gonna be less than the previous books.
Psionic power source book, and the Dromite not even considered?
It was probably because nobody cared about the Dromite. =P
It is just shocking that it is gonna be less than the previous books.
Not really. It has two fewer races and two fewer classes than the PHB2, but it adds in Skill Powers and Hybrid Classing instead. That hardly sounds like less to me, maybe less than the first PHB, but that's not really to be unexpected.
Psionic power source book, and the Dromite not even considered?
Keep believing that, Mutt.
Not having a small race after the first two books had them (Halfling in the first, Gnome in the second) seems a bit out of character. Four races? Only six classes? I think maybe it was to make room for the Gesalt... sorry, Hybrid characters rules. What I wonder, is there gonna be rules for every combo available, and rules for the new ones in the future releases after this? Or is it something that can be done with one set of rules for combining two classes? It seems, from all the talk, the former.
It is just shocking that it is gonna be less than the previous books.
It's as big as the PH2, thaX – 224 pages. It's just that Hybrid rules for 24 classes and Skill Powers take up a lot of space that wasn't taken in the previous books. If you don't want to gimp out on the classes' powers and PPaths, the EDests, the Racial PPaths, the items, and the feats, then something has to go, and that's one race and two classes.
But think about it from this perspective: If future PHs don't have some new rule system like Hybrid Characters, then we'll just get the Hybrids for the new classes introduced, and that will take up a lot less room than the 24 Hybrids in this book.
Psionic power source book, and the Dromite not even considered?
Keep believing that, Mutt.
I don't have to believe it, I know it. You are the only person who cares. I mean there are other Dromite fans, sure. But you are utterly obsessed with them, to the point where you think they're meant to be everywhere. But they're not. They're not that big of a priority.
The feat excerpt is up: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
Liberating Shard Swarm makes it sound like Shardminds actually do explode into a swarm and reform. And Psychic Focus sort of calls into question the whole "Githzerai are the most psionic flavored race in the book" story.
Anyways, going to the actual thread topic, instead of delusions ...
The feat excerpt is up: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
Liberating Shard Swarm makes it sound like Shardminds actually do explode into a swarm and reform. And Psychic Focus sort of calls into question the whole "Githzerai are the most psionic flavored race in the book" story.
Its possible the Shardmind weren't the 4th race at the time.
Otherwise, I think the Shardmind having psychic resistance and telepathy already destroyd the Githzerai's "most psionic race" tittle.
Having said that, both races only have 1 psionic class that their stats line up perfectly for. Despite developer comments stating intelligence was the perfect main stat for the psion because it was the 'power of the mind' it is not even a secondary for the other psion classes (monk being dex and strength/wis and the martial classes with the halo's being the weird con wis cha combos).
...the Shardmind having psychic resistance...
Huh? I missed this. When did this happen?
...the Shardmind having psychic resistance...
Huh? I missed this. When did this happen?
The leaked DDXP or whatever character pages. Not 100% confirmation mind you, but its quite possible.
The leaked DDXP or whatever character pages.
I feel like I've seen those but didn't see Psychic Resistance on it. Where did that link go?
*looks around*
EDIT: Ah, nevermind, you're right. I found it. My bad.
Now we got crystal human robots to go with our wooden human robots.
Shartmind depresses me.
Now we got crystal human robots to go with our wooden human robots.
Makes me wonder about PHB4 races. D&D seems to be it's own setting and genre now, instead of a generic fantasy game.
Shartmind depresses me.
Now we got crystal human robots to go with our wooden human robots.
Golems are not robots. And it hasn't been confirmed that the Shardmind is a golem. As far as anyone knows it could be a naturally occuring race.
edit: I spoke too soon.
forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=501232
Shartmind depresses me.
Now we got crystal human robots to go with our wooden human robots.
Golems are not robots. And it hasn't been confirmed that the Shardmind is a golem. As far as anyone knows it could be a naturally occuring race.
edit: I spoke too soon.
forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=501232
Golems are just Fantasy's version of robots.
I'm just tired of playing human races, due to spending about 8 years or so playing NWN and NWN2 (And before that Balders gate 1 and 2) and being limited to only using races that are just basically humans. Short humans, fat humans, ugly humans, pointy ear humans, slightly point ear humans, human humans.
Lucky I can at least somewhat reflavor WF and these shartminds, but still. I like races such as the minotaur and the gnoll because they can use natural weapons. (Racial power/Feat)
Minotaurs are Str and Con OR Wis, etc.
Pretty interesting development.
Someone at RPG.net is saying he has an advanced copy of the book and that each of the new races got the changeling treatment.
Minotaurs are Str and Con OR Wis, etc.
Pretty interesting development.
If this is accurate, do you think they will in the same tome post a listing of all existing races, and show new stat lines for them?
Elf Dex Wis, or Dex Str(wood elves)
Dwarves Con Wis, Con Str
Tieflings Int Char, Int Con (so they can really live up to that infernal warlock thang)
Eladrin Int Dex, Int Char
Halflings Dex Char, Dex Con?
Halfelves Charisma Con, Charisma Dex
Dragonborne Str Char, Str Con
Humans, +2 and a feat, or perhaps +2, +2? (okay, that one's a reach)
Someone at RPG.net is saying he has an advanced copy of the book and that each of the new races got the changeling treatment.
Minotaurs are Str and Con OR Wis, etc.
Pretty interesting development.
If this is accurate, do you think they will in the same tome post a listing of all existing races, and show new stat lines for them?
Elf Dex Wis, or Dex Str(wood elves)
Dwarves Con Wis, Con Str
Tieflings Int Char, Int Con (so they can really live up to that infernal warlock thang)
Eladrin Int Dex, Int Char
Halflings Dex Char, Dex Con?
Halfelves Charisma Con, Charisma Dex
Dragonborne Str Char, Str Con
Humans, +2 and a feat, or perhaps +2, +2? (okay, that one's a reach)
Yeah sounds about right. I'd probably do Dragonborn as Str and Cha or Int, just so that they could be the de facto melee/magic gish guys but otherwise it'd be solid.
For phb2/other races I would do:
Goliaths: Str, Con or Wis
Gnomes: Int, Dex or Cha
Kitty Shifters: Wis, Dex or Con
Doggy Shifters: Wis, Str or Con
Devas: Int, Wis or Con
Half Orcs: Str, Dex or Cha
Warforged: Str, Con or Dex
Changelings: hmm...strange.
Kalashtar: +2 Wis, +2 Cha or +2 Dex
Genasi: Dunno
Drow: Dunno
Old fluff drow were smart, so I'd give them Int as the alternate.
I think I'd make the Horcs str dex con, and the warforged something else, likely Str Con/ Str wis
Genasi maybe Charisma or dex as their alternate.
The original poster didn't respond to any questions regarding it, so maybe it was all just a fun bit of trolling.
D&D seems to be it's own setting and genre now, instead of a generic fantasy game.
Thank goodness.
Also, I really don't think this needs to be done with all the races; some are fine as is, Shifters are pretty much already this, although if there was a Con shifter added that would be cool.
For the most part I would just like to see some races given the optional stat, like the races that have fluff reasons to a certain class but not the stats such as Tieflings with Warlock and Genasi with Sorcerer
I highly doubt that they're going to back up and add optional stat adjustments for the other PC races.
I could. First off if they atart doing this going forward thenthe races that can't will feel somewhat lacking.
I also see this as a way to broaden selcetion, by making more races more optimal for more classes. While you can play a Kalashtar psion, alot of people may not since they don't have a +int, however +int might make sense for them and getting +cha +wis/+int is a good fit for the race and makes psions a mechanically strong choice as well as a thematically strong build.
Golems are just Fantasy's version of robots.
No, they're not.
I'm just tired of playing human races, due to spending about 8 years or so playing NWN and NWN2 (And before that Balders gate 1 and 2) and being limited to only using races that are just basically humans. Short humans, fat humans, ugly humans, pointy ear humans, slightly point ear humans, human humans.
Lucky I can at least somewhat reflavor WF and these shartminds, but still. I like races such as the minotaur and the gnoll because they can use natural weapons. (Racial power/Feat)
Then you should be happy with golems, since they're not "human" races.
I highly doubt that they're going to back up and add optional stat adjustments for the other PC races.
Oh me too, but speculating is fun!
I highly doubt that they're going to back up and add optional stat adjustments for the other PC races.
Leak was that they're doing the rest with the Essentials line later this year. The ones not in it will probably get Dragon support for the same.
Ability scores: (+2 to one ability score of your choice) or (+2 to one ability score of your choice)!
I highly doubt that they're going to back up and add optional stat adjustments for the other PC races.
Leak was that they're doing the rest with the Essentials line later this year. The ones not in it will probably get Dragon support for the same.
We can easily houserule this in right?
Golems are just Fantasy's version of robots.
No, they're not.I'm just tired of playing human races, due to spending about 8 years or so playing NWN and NWN2 (And before that Balders gate 1 and 2) and being limited to only using races that are just basically humans. Short humans, fat humans, ugly humans, pointy ear humans, slightly point ear humans, human humans.
Lucky I can at least somewhat reflavor WF and these shartminds, but still. I like races such as the minotaur and the gnoll because they can use natural weapons. (Racial power/Feat)
Then you should be happy with golems, since they're not "human" races.
Yeah they are. Just because they don't have a computer doesn't make them not fantasies version of robots. Like Lightsabers are sci-fi's versions of swords. Or that Crossbow thingy that chewbacca carried.
And no, the robots are still a "human" race. The first time I saw warforged, I imeddiatly drew up designs of a minotaur looking one. Almost as quickly as I started, the warforged I tried to play was turned into a robo-human.
And its the same with any human race. I say my controller is a githzari, boom, he is a githzari. (or yanki whatever.) And now no matter how I've revisioned him, you see him as a that gith. Its happened several times with my friend who wants to play a human, but likes mechanics of certian races (the elemental race) for his class.
He has pictures to show of his character, but every single time he is quickly classed as that scary guy who has rocks for hair.
So with PHB3 you'll finally be able to play as an animal, vegetable or mineral.
Your statement is a bit off.
We've been able to play as animals since the PHB2. :P
So with PHB3 you'll finally be able to play as an animal, vegetable or mineral.
Your statement is a bit off.
We've been able to play as animals since the PHB2. :P
Since humans and pretty much every other mammal race is an animal ...
While initially, the more I found out, the more I looked forward to it, at this point, the more I learn about it, the more cautious I find myself becoming about it.
Grar.
I highly doubt that they're going to back up and add optional stat adjustments for the other PC races.
Oh me too, but speculating is fun!
I'm speculating that you aren't truly a lord, and certainly not over a place called Khyber.
Speculating isn't fun anymore, is it? >
On a less silly note, I agree that it would make more sense for the Deva to have charisma as a back up. It would give them back that assimaritude some folks were looking for.
They should have not had Infernal Pact use Con in the first place, or come up with something that specifically allows Tieflings to use Cha for all pacts.
Yeah they are. Just because they don't have a computer doesn't make them not fantasies version of robots. Like Lightsabers are sci-fi's versions of swords. Or that Crossbow thingy that chewbacca carried.
The first golem stories predate the first robot stories by hundreds of years. Homonculi and other animate contructs have been part of mythic literature since the times of the ancient Greeks, probably longer.
If anything, robots are sci-fi's golems, not the other way around.
And no, the robots are still a "human" race. The first time I saw warforged, I imeddiatly drew up designs of a minotaur looking one. Almost as quickly as I started, the warforged I tried to play was turned into a robo-human.
And its the same with any human race. I say my controller is a githzari, boom, he is a githzari. (or yanki whatever.) And now no matter how I've revisioned him, you see him as a that gith. Its happened several times with my friend who wants to play a human, but likes mechanics of certian races (the elemental race) for his class.
He has pictures to show of his character, but every single time he is quickly classed as that scary guy who has rocks for hair.
How is this a problem with the races that WotC decides to publish in any way? All of these examples are clearly a roleplaying issue brought on by your own inability to break out of your own human mindset. Not that I think such a thing is easy, but we are told what differentiates the various races from human in outlook and physiology. Despite their almost human appearances, Elves, Eladrin, Dwarves, Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Drow, Genasi, Goliaths, Halflings, Changelings, Kalashtar, etc. should be as alien as we expect Warforged, Dragonborn, Shardmind and Thri Kreen to be. If we play them as "humans with pointy ears," isn't that our problem?
WotC cannot provide you with the solution to your problem here. Only you can.
Yeah they are. Just because they don't have a computer doesn't make them not fantasies version of robots. Like Lightsabers are sci-fi's versions of swords. Or that Crossbow thingy that chewbacca carried.
The first golem stories predate the first robot stories by hundreds of years. Homonculi and other animate contructs have been part of mythic literature since the times of the ancient Greeks, probably longer.
If anything, robots are sci-fi's golems, not the other way around.
This +1. The stories of Golems came before any robot stories were ever conceived, in fact the word itself comes from Hebrew myth, and has echoes in Frankenstein and almost every fracken single "robot gone crazy" story since. People only associate a golem with a robot because robots are our modern version of golem, and thus are more easily recognizable to us - ie we cenceptualize golems as robots only because of our culture.
If anything, robots are sci-fi's golems, not the other way around.
This +1. The stories of Golems came before any robot stories were ever conceived, in fact the word itself comes from Hebrew myth, and has echoes in Frankenstein and almost every fracken single "robot gone crazy" story since. People only associate a golem with a robot because robots are our modern version of golem, and thus are more easily recognizable to us - ie we cenceptualize golems as robots only because of our culture.
I don't really see why it should matter which came first. What matters is that the concepts are largely synonymous (with the possible exception of stories that feature science and magic as opposing forces). So yes Warforged do fill the role of 'robomen', but that doesn't make them even remotely out of place in a fantasy setting as the sci-fi concept of robot was based off the fantasy concept of golem.
If anything, robots are sci-fi's golems, not the other way around.
This +1. The stories of Golems came before any robot stories were ever conceived, in fact the word itself comes from Hebrew myth, and has echoes in Frankenstein and almost every fracken single "robot gone crazy" story since. People only associate a golem with a robot because robots are our modern version of golem, and thus are more easily recognizable to us - ie we cenceptualize golems as robots only because of our culture.
I don't really see why it should matter which came first. What matters is that the concepts are largely synonymous (with the possible exception of stories that feature science and magic as opposing forces). So yes Warforged do fill the role of 'robomen', but that doesn't make them even remotely out of place in a fantasy setting as the sci-fi concept of robot was based off the fantasy concept of golem.
Because people use "robot" as a derogatory towards the concept of warforged.
Because people use "robot" as a derogatory towards the concept of warforged.
That's their own ignorant fault. I say let them have their naive hate, while we the more enlightened simply laugh it off, leaving them perplexed and even more clueless.
The alternative is feeling insulted, and if you feel insulted than you're only letting the bigots win.
So with PHB3 you'll finally be able to play as an animal, vegetable or mineral.
What?! Not as a fungoid?!
Also, what about protozoa?
I want a protozoa race!
Oh, and true construct races, not some of that "living-construct" cowcach.
Golems - artificial creatures composed entirely of a single material (clay/stone/flesh/iron/etc., ability scores dependant on chosen material?).
Automata - artificial creatures composed of multiple materials (possible steampunk option).
Eidolons - artificial creature created ¿alchemically? to represent the image of another being (+2 Con/+2 of an ability score of the race they represent?).
Might have to post something of that in homebrewn/races&monsters...
Yeah they are. Just because they don't have a computer doesn't make them not fantasies version of robots. Like Lightsabers are sci-fi's versions of swords. Or that Crossbow thingy that chewbacca carried.
The first golem stories predate the first robot stories by hundreds of years. Homonculi and other animate contructs have been part of mythic literature since the times of the ancient Greeks, probably longer.
If anything, robots are sci-fi's golems, not the other way around.And no, the robots are still a "human" race. The first time I saw warforged, I imeddiatly drew up designs of a minotaur looking one. Almost as quickly as I started, the warforged I tried to play was turned into a robo-human.
And its the same with any human race. I say my controller is a githzari, boom, he is a githzari. (or yanki whatever.) And now no matter how I've revisioned him, you see him as a that gith. Its happened several times with my friend who wants to play a human, but likes mechanics of certian races (the elemental race) for his class.
He has pictures to show of his character, but every single time he is quickly classed as that scary guy who has rocks for hair.
How is this a problem with the races that WotC decides to publish in any way? All of these examples are clearly a roleplaying issue brought on by your own inability to break out of your own human mindset. Not that I think such a thing is easy, but we are told what differentiates the various races from human in outlook and physiology. Despite their almost human appearances, Elves, Eladrin, Dwarves, Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Drow, Genasi, Goliaths, Halflings, Changelings, Kalashtar, etc. should be as alien as we expect Warforged, Dragonborn, Shardmind and Thri Kreen to be. If we play them as "humans with pointy ears," isn't that our problem?
WotC cannot provide you with the solution to your problem here. Only you can.
First part, Okay yeah but they are still one in the same.
Second part, No. It is a problem with what WotC desides to publish as races. The WF was dismissed by the DM as in not being allowed to be a minotaur WF, but had to be human one. As in I was NOT allowed to use it. (Didn't matter anyways, shortly after our group had to disolve because of graduation from tech school) But I wasn't allowed to use a mino version because WotC didn't publish them looking like minotaurs or even suggesting that they had various designs.
What they publish, is pretty much what we get. Reflavoring is only capable of going so far. If the race was say.. a my little pony, No amount of reflavoring would get that My little pony to become a might max or a stretch arm strong. It is practically forever a pink plastic pony toy. You can hand me an apple and tell me its an orange and no matter how much i roleplay, or pretend the apple is an orange it will never be an orange.
I'll say that the Minotaur that is being released does make me happy though. It allows me to replace the shifter race for one of my builds, because he actually gets racial abilities. I mean, even though they are to me "slightly fuzzy humans" mosty of that is because the shifter is pretty plain jane beyond a decent racial ability, one that is balanced by its harder to happen trigger status and is NOT by the lack of any racial traits.
It is just shocking that it is gonna be less than the previous books.
Psionic classes are about as awesome as one and a half nonpsionic classes, so it all balances out .
Second part, No. It is a problem with what WotC desides to publish as races. The WF was dismissed by the DM as in not being allowed to be a minotaur WF, but had to be human one. As in I was NOT allowed to use it. (Didn't matter anyways, shortly after our group had to disolve because of graduation from tech school) But I wasn't allowed to use a mino version because WotC didn't publish them looking like minotaurs or even suggesting that they had various designs.
Sounds more like the DM's problem. Though even your standard warforged is pretty different from humans, what with their silly concerns about bleeding and breathing and sleep and starvation .
Second part, No. It is a problem with what WotC desides to publish as races. The WF was dismissed by the DM as in not being allowed to be a minotaur WF, but had to be human one. As in I was NOT allowed to use it. (Didn't matter anyways, shortly after our group had to disolve because of graduation from tech school) But I wasn't allowed to use a mino version because WotC didn't publish them looking like minotaurs or even suggesting that they had various designs.
What they publish, is pretty much what we get. Reflavoring is only capable of going so far. If the race was say.. a my little pony, No amount of reflavoring would get that My little pony to become a might max or a stretch arm strong. It is practically forever a pink plastic pony toy. You can hand me an apple and tell me its an orange and no matter how much i roleplay, or pretend the apple is an orange it will never be an orange.
That is blatantly the fault and problem of the DM, not WotC. Don't blame WotC because you're stuck with an idiot.
Its stated that Warforged customize their appearancence, your guys made himself look like a Minotaur. That doesn't effect stats or your ability to get feats, so any DM who isn't an idiot should have allowed it.
Is it possible we can just start calling out this pointless "It's just a human with X" argument? It seems to have become nothing more than an antagonistic way of saying "I want races with Y," and does nothing to explain the poster's bone of contention anymore.
What i think is hilarious is most of them are defending anthropomorphic races. When A dragon bor is just a human with a dragon head, a gnoll is just a human with a hyena head.
Before I get flamed I'm aware its an oversimplification. Saying elves are pointy eared humans is just as much. Humanoid means human like, and non humanoid races have some issues of they're own.
Is it possible we can just start calling out this pointless "It's just a human with X" argument? It seems to have become nothing more than an antagonistic way of saying "I want races with Y," and does nothing to explain the poster's bone of contention anymore.
What i think is hilarious is most of them are defending anthropomorphic races. When A dragon bor is just a human with a dragon head, a gnoll is just a human with a hyena head.
Before I get flamed I'm aware its an oversimplification. Saying elves are pointy eared humans is just as much. Humanoid means human like, and non humanoid races have some issues of they're own.
I love anthro races, and you're in no danger of flaming from me. You're bassically right. For all my enjoyment of furry races or quadroupedal races, they are essentially "Creature X with elements from Creature Y (and possibly from a Creature Z if they're really bizarre)". Every fantasy race is that way. It's just that the non-furry and the bipedal races seem more vanilla than the anthro races.
Second part, No. It is a problem with what WotC desides to publish as races. The WF was dismissed by the DM as in not being allowed to be a minotaur WF, but had to be human one. As in I was NOT allowed to use it. (Didn't matter anyways, shortly after our group had to disolve because of graduation from tech school) But I wasn't allowed to use a mino version because WotC didn't publish them looking like minotaurs or even suggesting that they had various designs.
What they publish, is pretty much what we get. Reflavoring is only capable of going so far. If the race was say.. a my little pony, No amount of reflavoring would get that My little pony to become a might max or a stretch arm strong. It is practically forever a pink plastic pony toy. You can hand me an apple and tell me its an orange and no matter how much i roleplay, or pretend the apple is an orange it will never be an orange.
That is blatantly the fault and problem of the DM, not WotC. Don't blame WotC because you're stuck with an idiot.
A few months back we had a huge controversy on these forums on whether it was kosher to re-skin races in a vanilla D&D game. I don't believe a consensus was ever reached. Some very intelligent remarks (as well as some incredibly stupid ones) were made both for and against.
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
A few months back we had a huge controversy on these forums on whether it was kosher to re-skin races in a vanilla D&D game. I don't believe a consensus was ever reached. Some very intelligent remarks (as well as some incredibly stupid ones) were made both for and against.
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
.... He wasn't talking about reskinning the race. Just it's appearance ....
I have never been in a game or seen a game out of the dozens run by my club back in college (where there were always multiple games being run) where minor cosmetic changes like that weren't allowed.
Seriously, appearance is really up to the player. Unless its something detrimental to the group, saying "you can't look like that cause there's no example in the art" is a DM who enjoys limiting his players creativity. What is this, AAD? (Appearance as Drawn).
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
Reskinning a race is something like playing a human but using the tiefling mechanics, or playing a dryad and using the mechanics for an elf or wilden, or saying that your shifter is actually an elf spirit-bonded at birth to a panther spirit.
Welding metal bull's horns to a warforged's head does not in any way compare.
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
Reskinning a race is something like playing a human but using the tiefling mechanics, or playing a dryad and using the mechanics for an elf or wilden, or saying that your shifter is actually an elf spirit-bonded at birth to a panther spirit.
Welding metal bull's horns to a warforged's head does not in any way compare.
Hmm, I got the impression we were talking about more than that.
A few months back we had a huge controversy on these forums on whether it was kosher to re-skin races in a vanilla D&D game. I don't believe a consensus was ever reached. Some very intelligent remarks (as well as some incredibly stupid ones) were made both for and against.
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
.... He wasn't talking about reskinning the race. Just it's appearance ....
I have never been in a game or seen a game out of the dozens run by my club back in college (where there were always multiple games being run) where minor cosmetic changes like that weren't allowed.
This is why I always find it amusing when somebody just assumes that any other player can re-skin his characters race to be whatever he wants. Guess what? Most people's campaigns don't work that way.
Reskinning a race is something like playing a human but using the tiefling mechanics, or playing a dryad and using the mechanics for an elf or wilden, or saying that your shifter is actually an elf spirit-bonded at birth to a panther spirit.
Welding metal bull's horns to a warforged's head does not in any way compare.
Well the first guy is a perfect example of why its WotC fault. To him, because WotC printed X, the reskinning of a WF to look badass and not so much not so bad ass is "Welding bull horns onto warforged"
And then celticmutt..
re·skin
to replace or repair the exterior surface or coating of: The space shuttle had to be reskinned before returning to service.
Well the first guy is a perfect example of why its WotC fault. To him, because WotC printed X, the reskinning of a WF to look badass and not so much not so bad ass is "Welding bull horns onto warforged"
I've read this several times now and I still have absolutely no idea what it means. I can't even work out whether you have any idea what I meant in the post you (probably?) were responding to.
(ETA: Did you think I was dismissing/belittling the idea of a warforged that looks minotaur-shaped? I wasn't. I actually think it's a really cool idea...)
Just to clarify, all I was saying was that describing your warforged as being more minotaur-shaped than human-shaped isn't really comparable to describing your PC as one race while using the mechanics for another. A minor cosmetic change is not the same as a complete rewrite of a race.
I can't imagine many DMs actually having a problem with a minor cosmetic change like describing a warforged as having been designed to resemble a metal minotaur. However, I can imagine a lot of DMs would have a problem with (for example) a player wanting to play a drow but using the mechanics of a half-orc. Especially if it looks suspiciously as though they just want a Str bonus to make a more mechanically optimal character.
(Incidentally, all the examples of reskinning I mentioned in my previous post are things I, personally, would certainly allow as a DM. In fact, the "shifters are spirit-bonded elves" thing is actually canon in my homebrew setting. There's no mechanical changes other than them getting the fey origin, however. The point remains that such reskinning is qualitatively different from minor cosmetic changes.)
I didn't realize that the bullhorn thing was actually something compleatly different than what i was talking about.
Yes, I did think you were just dismissing the whole idea of the warforged looking like a minotaur, even though it was to provide no mechanical diffrences between warforged. (Was actually going to progress into the juggernaught prc though)
I didn't realize that the bullhorn thing was actually something compleatly different than what i was talking about.
And I was saying the exact same thing Duskweaver was. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Anyway -- Does anyone have any actual spoiler info for us? I am curious to know more about Versatile Expertise. Does it make the Expertise feats from PHB2 obsolete?
Not quite. Versatile Expertise lets you pick 2 (weapon/impliment). So you could take bastardsword + holy symbol, but it's a feat bonus, so it won't stack with some stuff.
Yes, I did think you were just dismissing the whole idea of the warforged looking like a minotaur, even though it was to provide no mechanical diffrences between warforged. (Was actually going to progress into the juggernaught prc though)
I didn't realize that the bullhorn thing was actually something compleatly different than what i was talking about.
And I was saying the exact same thing Duskweaver was. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Or you need to work on ergo.
Seriously. It is like saying "Celticmutt went to see Joe yesterday. He is dumb."
Now you could take that as I just called you dumb. Which is how i took the whole 'welding horns doesn't compair to reskinning.'
Then you call me out on it, and I say "No i wasn't calling you dumb, i was calling Joe dumb because he is incapable of speech."
That is pretty much what happen.
Order of events
I mention the Minotaur warforged, then say my DM didn't allow it.
A couple of people say my DM was an Idiot and that isn't WotC fault.
Then we quote my post about the WF minotaur saying we cannot always reskin
Then you come in saying i wasn't talking about reskinning, i was talking about changing the appearance. (AKA Reskinning)
Then we make the comment that welding bull horn's onto the warforged isn't the same as a shifter being an elf with a panther spirit bond.
Which I take as belittling, and dismissing of my attempt to reskin the race. I make post about that.
Conflict ensues, and Duskweaver explains that it wasn't really directly releated to my Minotaur WF.
In which point you then call me an idiot.
That is the series of events that progressed.
Is it possible we can just start calling out this pointless "It's just a human with X" argument? It seems to have become nothing more than an antagonistic way of saying "I want races with Y," and does nothing to explain the poster's bone of contention anymore.
What i think is hilarious is most of them are defending anthropomorphic races. When A dragon bor is just a human with a dragon head, a gnoll is just a human with a hyena head.
Before I get flamed I'm aware its an oversimplification. Saying elves are pointy eared humans is just as much. Humanoid means human like, and non humanoid races have some issues of they're own.
I love anthro races, and you're in no danger of flaming from me. You're bassically right. For all my enjoyment of furry races or quadroupedal races, they are essentially "Creature X with elements from Creature Y (and possibly from a Creature Z if they're really bizarre)". Every fantasy race is that way. It's just that the non-furry and the bipedal races seem more vanilla than the anthro races.
Basically what mechpilot said. In the most basic terms, anthromorphic races are pretty much just like the human races. Its mostly just that the races we have seen already are very vanilla. Because we have them in almost every single fantasy game. Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Elves, Halflings, and any other races i forgot, you see them (and typically only them) in every DnD video game. You've got these races over and over and over again in most MMOs. Which is why Global Agenda had the no Elf promotion campain.
And so I've gotten tired of playing these races. Even though the are repesented in each different game slightly different from the last. Like Elves in one of the MTG campains became deer people which was cool. (Though i will always hate elves in MTG. Thats probally one of the reasons I hate elves actually is because of MTG. and Salvador.)
Anyway -- Does anyone have any actual spoiler info for us? I am curious to know more about Versatile Expertise. Does it make the Expertise feats from PHB2 obsolete?
Not quite. Versatile Expertise lets you pick 2 (weapon/impliment). So you could take bastardsword + holy symbol, but it's a feat bonus, so it won't stack with some stuff.
More detail?
For example, can an Eladrin use the Versatile Expertise feat to pick up longsword + wand, then use the longsword as if a wand implement, with a +1 feat bonus?
Or is it just a two-in-one feat: +1 attack with either a longsword or a wand?
I assume, a Sorcerer can use the VE feat for a dagger, both as a weapon and as an implement?
Or is it just a two-in-one feat: +1 attack with either a longsword or a wand?
This. It's intended for Paladins, Battle Clerics, Bards and other folks who use both implements and weapon, but not the same item working for both.
In PHB4, we will have a feat that gives +1/+2/+3 to all your attacks, non-stackable, making all expertises useless. After that, maybe WotC will man up and actually change the math to give everybody attack bonuses for free.
Which I take as belittling, and dismissing of my attempt to reskin the race. I make post about that.
Conflict ensues, and Duskweaver explains that it wasn't really directly releated to my Minotaur WF.
In which point you then call me an idiot.
That is the series of events that progressed.
Wow. No, I did not call you an idiot. Saying that you need to work on your reading comprehension is nowhere near the same as calling you an idiot. If I meant to call you an idiot, I would have.
Saying you need to work on your reading comprehension means you need to read more carefully, not assume everything is an attack on you, and not wildly overreact, like you've done twice now.
Being completely honest CelticMutt, I waould've taken the same comment as an insult to my intelligence as well. It came across as a little hostile.
As opposed to Chanter's post with the facepalm and spelling out definitions like I was the idiot?
Yes, I did think you were just dismissing the whole idea of the warforged looking like a minotaur, even though it was to provide no mechanical diffrences between warforged. (Was actually going to progress into the juggernaught prc though)
Ah well, then I apologise. Unlike CelticMutt, I consider the misunderstanding of a post to be primarily the fault of the poster (in this case, me) rather than the reader. I can see how my post could easily have come across as snarky and dismissive, even though it wasn't meant that way.
but it's a feat bonus, so it won't stack with some stuff.
Weapon and Implement Expertise are feat bonuses now too, as of today's errata. But some attack bonus feats that used to give feat bonuses now give untyped bonuses (notably Hellfire Blood).
but it's a feat bonus, so it won't stack with some stuff.
Weapon and Implement Expertise are feat bonuses now too, as of today's errata. But some attack bonus feats that used to give feat bonuses now give untyped bonuses (notably Hellfire Blood).
But i WAS right
.Yes, I did think you were just dismissing the whole idea of the warforged looking like a minotaur, even though it was to provide no mechanical diffrences between warforged. (Was actually going to progress into the juggernaught prc though)
Ah well, then I apologise. Unlike CelticMutt, I consider the misunderstanding of a post to be primarily the fault of the poster (in this case, me) rather than the reader. I can see how my post could easily have come across as snarky and dismissive, even though it wasn't meant that way.but it's a feat bonus, so it won't stack with some stuff.
Weapon and Implement Expertise are feat bonuses now too, as of today's errata. But some attack bonus feats that used to give feat bonuses now give untyped bonuses (notably Hellfire Blood).
And I apologize for being a bit snarky as well, to you. But I'm sure you know how it goes on the interenets, since this is all just text and thus verbal and movement cues are lost.
As for Mutt however.. Hounds never get along very much with Mutts. :P
Apprently those are elves back in 1st edition.
And now I am scared for my life just looking at them. I'm happy that elves are pointy eared humans and not those things. Now if you excuse me.. I need to go scrub my eyes and make thirty human characters.
I mean, obviously runes. Runes must be a big part of it, and doing runic things. But beyond that, what makes them special, unique, and interesting?
Many of the primordials were chained by the gods, while others were killed, became demons, or mysteriously roam around to be big boss guys. The Runepriest could very well be a class that focuses more on those acts of the gods, using a lesser version of the process by which one binds a giant elemental monster thing.
Then again, I'm sure such fluff would elicit people complaining about what the Elemental powersource has left..
Those can't be elves. Elves don't have dog noses. There are plenty of pictures of elves in the 1st edition materials, and they look nothing like that.
Read the dragon. Who ever made those things.. reskinned elves as that. Its just wrong.