Eberron had elements of Psionics in the setting, but they have yet to flush out Psionics fully. This isn't a big issue since they can gloss over it in the setting/player book (Much like FR did for Sorcerers/Bards) and then present them in the PHB3 next year. Now Dark Sun is a setting that also heavily uses psionics, almost to an exclusion of Arcane magic. So with a nice little bow the could tie both setting books to the PHB in the middle and get cool things like the destructive Arcane magic of DS, the advanced Psionic options, Dragon King epic destines. Etc, etc.
Just a thought. Yours?
(Ack in hindsight this should be in Future Release, could a friendly Mod fix this?)
No confirmations yet, only "it will be a suprise for many" or something along these lines.
I personally hope for a completely NEW setting.
Bah, an old setting they haven't released yet is unsurprising. A new setting is unsurprising. Therefore it can only be a setting they've already released!
Forgotten Realms 2.0
Rise of the Machines
Takes place after Gondian engineers have made mechomechanic beings which have laid waste of most of Faerun (and their creators), and the adventurers must fight to free the peoples. Along the way they might meet Elminster the Technowizard (do not bother him while he's jamming) and Cyberdrizzt fluent of over 6 million forms of angst. Btw, Shar is behind the whole thing.
Oh and...Drachasor, your a very evil person.
Psionics have yet to be released and aren't in PHB2.
PHB3 comes out in 2010, Campaign Setting comes out in 2010.....
My guess is obviously thus that PHB 3 will contain the shadow powersource and that the campaign setting is spelljammer.
What I do see is Dragonlance and Greyhawk for 2010 & 2011. Dragonlance has novels published every two months, so there's a big market for a RPG book. They could devote one of their advertising pages in the back for the Campaign Book, and hopefully people will come.
Greyhawk for legacy purposes, lots of grognards swear by it, and a new book will surely bring them in to complain and moan and (hopefully) buy the book to see how the true setting for D&D has been ruined again. There's the added bonus that quite a few Paizo fans are also Greyhawk fans, so that's a little gift thrown out to the Pathfinder crowd.
IF 2010 and 2011 will be Greyhawk / Dragonlance I will be severely disappointed
If its one of those Im switching from dnd to Exalted, thats how much I despise both of those settings. I want to see a new setting for 2010 and darksun for 2011, and I never ever want to see grey hawk or dragonlance.
i know grayhawk, blackmoor, dragonlance, ect... all have their own elements to individualize them, but they are still generic fantasy setting in the eyes of the general populace.
the top 3 that i can think of:
-Dark Sun is dystopian and bleak with heavy survival tones
-Ravenloft is gothic horror with a D&D coat of paint
-Spelljammer is... spelljammer (though i would recommend waiting a few years to bring out this setting. it would really benefit from having a few established ones before hand)
ravenloft is set in a more standard fantasy environment, but the genres it makes use of and overtones of horror, fear & hopelessness (or clinging to hope) makes it pretty different.
or it could be that the DM's i've played with couldn't GM grayhawk/fr/blackmoor/dl different enough for me to tell the difference.
What I do see is Dragonlance and Greyhawk for 2010 & 2011. Dragonlance has novels published every two months, so there's a big market for a RPG book. They could devote one of their advertising pages in the back for the Campaign Book, and hopefully people will come.
Greyhawk for legacy purposes, lots of grognards swear by it, and a new book will surely bring them in to complain and moan and (hopefully) buy the book to see how the true setting for D&D has been ruined again. There's the added bonus that quite a few Paizo fans are also Greyhawk fans, so that's a little gift thrown out to the Pathfinder crowd.
If "legacy" purposes are a reason, then Mystara/Hollow Earth is another possibility. It was previously associated with the "basic" D&D rules, but since there's no difference between "basic" and "advanced" D&D these days, there's no reason to exclude it as a possibility.
If its one of those Im switching from dnd to Exalted, thats how much I despise both of those settings. I want to see a new setting for 2010 and darksun for 2011, and I never ever want to see grey hawk or dragonlance.
Nothing says you have to buy the books, you know.
I certainly won't be buying Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Planescape or Spelljammer if they come out.
Mysara/Hollowearth is a possibility. It would certainly surprise most of us...
i won't buy the CS, but probably the Player books... they tend to contain more stuff for me if the FRPG book is any indication (that and there is a possible FR game being run by my friend in the future).
Hehe, this is why I love my DDI subscription I can get all the crunch I want even from campaign settings I dislike, without needing to buy the books.
As for my bet, I am also placing it on Dark Sun, followed up by Planescape then a New Setting.
i won't buy the CS, but probably the Player books... they tend to contain more stuff for me if the FRPG book is any indication (that and there is a possible FR game being run by my friend in the future).
This is true, though if I buy the Dragonlance book, I'm ripping out the pages with Kender and Tinker Gnomes on them.
Hehe, this is why I love my DDI subscription I can get all the crunch I want even from campaign settings I dislike, without needing to buy the books.
As for my bet, I am also placing it on Dark Sun, followed up by Planescape then a New Setting.
my group is putzing around the idea of each of us pooling in 2$ and sharing a DDI subscription. either way, i like having a physical book to reference. DDI will just let me see beforehand which books i want :D
I personally think it will be Dragonlance for a few reasons. Firstly, before they pulled back the rights to Dungeon/Dragon magazine, they recalled Dragonlance from the very people who helped create it. And, even though it's only the second year, it seems like a pattern might immerge. First was FR, a staple to every "old school" gamer, we've had that setting almost as long as the game itself. Then there was Eberron, the newest setting in the game. It was like they are trying to bring both ends together. So, 2010 should be Dragonlance, another classic setting, with 2011 either being one of the newer settings from2E (Planescape being my best guess) or a completely new setting. I may be completely wrong, but this makes sense to me, catering to the old gamers like myself, and then brining in newblood with fresh ideas.
Ok, I'm done, where's my change?
My two cp:
I personally think it will be Dragonlance for a few reasons. Firstly, before they pulled back the rights to Dungeon/Dragon magazine, they recalled Dragonlance from the very people who helped create it. And, even though it's only the second year, it seems like a pattern might immerge. First was FR, a staple to every "old school" gamer, we've had that setting almost as long as the game itself. Then there was Eberron, the newest setting in the game. It was like they are trying to bring both ends together. So, 2010 should be Dragonlance, another classic setting, with 2011 either being one of the newer settings from2E (Planescape being my best guess) or a completely new setting. I may be completely wrong, but this makes sense to me, catering to the old gamers like myself, and then brining in newblood with fresh ideas.
Ok, I'm done, where's my change?
WHY do people like DL? Seriously its the worsed setting ever designed, except for maybe greyhawk.
Eberron, their only "original" 3e setting, was easily one of the best settings I've ever encountered.
It's a "whole new game". How about a "whole new world" to play it in?
A real world - not a vague "concept" like Points of Light.
My bets are on Dark Sun for 2010. They've already released some Dragon 4E material for it, and the setting is sufficiently different from both the Forgotten Realms and Eberron that purchasing the campaign setting material would actually bring about plenty of new material.
This is a losing bet, really. They've also released material for Planescape, so we can't tell from that, at all.
Now, on topic, Greyhawk or Dragonlance would be HORRIBLE. Greyhawk is more or less impossible to resuscitate without making it a horribly vanilla "New FR, but with Mordenkainen instead of Elminster!" setting, and every Dragonlance veteran seems to have disavowed everything related to the setting after THAT novel (veterans will know which one I'm talking about...). Planescape or DS are better bets, and we can discard Ravenloft and Spelljammer because they are mini-settings, of sorts, instead of fleshed out stuff.
PS: Interestingly, in the "This month" column in Wizard's website, a DS novel is highlighted.
Edit: Yes, RC, you're the only one. We gamers are a nostalgic bunch and want our old settings back! :p
Am I the only one who wants them to do an *original* setting?
Eberron, their only "original" 3e setting, was easily one of the best settings I've ever encountered.
It's a "whole new game". How about a "whole new world" to play it in?
A real world - not a vague "concept" like Points of Light.
Points of Light is deliberately vague so it can be easily combined with anything else.
Agreed, though, that a new setting would be cool. Maybe one of the other finalists that Eberron beat out?
WHY do people like DL? Seriously its the worsed setting ever designed, except for maybe greyhawk.
Opinions are what they are, shouldn't discount the people who grew up with this game (playing since 1981 at the corruptible age of 10) and like our nostalgia AND an updated game. If it comes out, you then have money to spend on something else, simple as that.
And FYI, it's "worst", not worsed.
Opinions are what they are, shouldn't discount the people who grew up with this game (playing since 1981 at the corruptible age of 10) and like our nostalgia AND an updated game. If it comes out, you then have money to spend on something else, simple as that.
And FYI, it's "worst", not worsed.
woops figured i was wrong when i said it. But their is nothing good about dragonlance kender, tinker gnomes, gully dwarves elves and dwarves hate each other for some random reason sorry no not a setting i want to see. Besides legacy and tradition are not enough of a reason to republish an old setting. Nostalgia is all well and good but new eddition should mean something new not rehashing of old material. Let the old settings die a noble death, other than darksun and maybe spelljammer I wouldnt mind seeing those, but before they redo something old I want to see something new. Tradition has a place just not in an rpg.
Opinions are what they are, shouldn't discount the people who grew up with this game (playing since 1981 at the corruptible age of 10) and like our nostalgia AND an updated game. If it comes out, you then have money to spend on something else, simple as that.
And FYI, it's "worst", not worsed.
No. They are actually so bad that a new spelling was required. The use of worsed creates a mental onomatopoeia in which the reading of the misspelled word causes your brain to groan with the sort of apprehension of terrible that Dragonlance and Greyhawk produce. Worsed was thus the correct use of the word... :P
Honestly, I dislike dragonlance and Greyhawk so much, I doubt as I would even purchase the Players Guide for those settings. I just hate them that much. I mean, there is always the chance... but its not a big one.
Planescape was the BEST thing to ever come from TSR. It took the game and brought it to a new level... perhaps even worthy of the word art. There are a lot of really great conceptual elements to that setting. Very intelligent.
Ravenloft and Dark Sun were amazing settings. Not quite as intelligent as Planescape, but every bit as good from the point of view of "place, aesthetic, and potential for adventure."
Those are the three I hope for. Dark Sun is what I expect with 2010.
Tradition has a place just not in an rpg.
I couldn't dissagree more, if it wasn't for guys like me playing Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Mystara and Spelljammer, there would be no 4E or even 3E, let alone Eberron. Dungeons and Dragons was about to die at the end of the 90's, but people who loved the game growing up (like me) chose to save it rather than see it die out. So, just like a wise sage who has seen more adventure than you might ever see, they deserve their place too. Besides, it's only 3 books, don't want them, don't buy them, wait your turn for something new and let the rest of us enjoy a much deserved walk down memory lane. I am not a fan of the 3E Dragonlance, but I have hope for a new and improved take on the setting. (kenders are wonderful to play, if you know what you are doing, otherwise they are annoying thieves)
I couldn't dissagree more, if it wasn't for guys like me playing Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Mystara and Spelljammer, there would be no 4E or even 3E, let alone Eberron. Dungeons and Dragons was about to die at the end of the 90's, but people who loved the game growing up (like me) chose to save it rather than see it die out. So, just like a wise sage who has seen more before that you might ever see, they deserve their place too. Besides, it's only 3 books, don't want them, don't buy them, wait your turn for something new and let the rest of us enjoy a much deserved walk down memory lane. I am not a fan of the 3E Dragonlance, but I have hope for a new and improved take on the setting. (kenders are wonderful to play, if you know what you are doing, otherwise they are annoying thieves)
What saved the game was a new company buying the game and rewriting the rules, now 3.5 had a lot of problems but the problems were in that they kept too much stuff like vancian casting. Tradition actually harms a game. Tradition causes people to not look for new things. I dont want the same tired ideas in a new eddition, heck I would personally have preffered if they had taken out everysingle grey hawk god of the php and replaced them with new ones. I hate keeping things for legacies sake or tradition. Its like trying to swim with a weight tied to your leg eventually it will bog you down and kill you.
I also expect Dark Sun for 2010 also I'f I'm not mistaken Dragonlance will be released later on (or so I've read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance#Campaign_setting)
The minute they release dragonlance im done with dnd. I know that sounds bad but i know people will want to play kender in non dragonlance games, I do not want to deal with that level of stupidity and fail that is dragonlance.
What saved the game was a new company buying the game and rewriting the rules, now 3.5 had a lot of problems but the problems were in that they kept too much stuff like vancian casting. Tradition actually harms a game. Tradition causes people to not look for new things. I dont want the same tired ideas in a new eddition, heck I would personally have preffered if they had taken out everysingle grey hawk god of the php and replaced them with new ones. I hate keeping things for legacies sake or tradition. Its like trying to swim with a weight tied to your leg eventually it will bog you down and kill you.
Sounds like you just want a completely new game. But that's not how it works and if you listen to the people who designed 4E, that's not what they wanted either, new mechanics for a "timeless" game. Keeping *some* things traditional is what makes it DnD, otherwise they would just call it something else and sell it to ADD video game freaks. And no, it's more like swiming in a river and, when you are struggling, finding a rock that has been there for milenia to stand on and gain control of things. And as I have said before, don't like it, don't buy it, more for the rest of us.
You know that you're really just a green monster most of the time? You're seriously hyperboling the hell out of these forums and are certainly a nuisance to a lot of people, including a lot of 4E fans.
Why? I honestly dont understand people who look to tradition, it seriously hampers the development of innovations. 3.5 would have been much better if they had changed it more. Is wanting to see new things in a new eddition wrong?
The minute they release dragonlance im done with dnd. I know that sounds bad but i know people will want to play kender in non dragonlance games, I do not want to deal with that level of stupidity and fail that is dragonlance.
Sounds like you need to find a new group, rather than give up the game, or be a DM with some guts to say "no".
Without further ado I present:
SHENANIGANS: 4th Edition Setting
You want to play a living cloud, wizard, sushi chef! AWSOME! In shenanigans.. EVERYTHING GOES!
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As for Dragonlance, I loved Dragonlance before the Chaos War. The wizard schools were the most interesting wizards I had ever encountered in a D&D fantasy setting.
Now it's all crud, but hey, it's FANTASY! EVERYTHING GOES!
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Heck, maybe they'll ressurect Birthright. I did buy it, I didn't like it, but I'd consider giving it a try again with the VERY strategic new gameplay of 4th Edition.
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And my bet? Dominaria as a new fantasy setting.
Is wanting to see new things in a new eddition wrong?
No, but don't ever discount people who were playing this game for almost 30 years. Remember, new is not automatically better.
Sounds like you just want a completely new game. But that's not how it works and if you listen to the people who designed 4E, that's not what they wanted either, new mechanics for a "timeless" game. Keeping *some* things traditional is what makes it DnD, otherwise they would just call it something else and sell it to ADD video game freaks. And no, it's more like swiming in a river and, when you are struggling, finding a rock that has been there for milenia to stand on and gain control of things. And as I have said before, don't like it, don't buy it, more for the rest of us.
Actually I like all the changes in 4e, Im just disapointed that theyd release an old setting, something where everything has already been done rather than a new setting. Id rather not keep traditions, or at least as few traditions as you can. Tradition stands directly in the way of progress and innovation. Also that rock probably only appears stable its probably been eroded to the point where it will shift and you will fall.
No, but don't ever discount people who were playing this game for almost 30 years. Remember, new is not automatically better.
Usually it is.
Usually it is.
lol, and how old are you?
lol, and how old are you?
26 all I know is that if people paid too much attention to tradition we would still be in the dark ages. Each new generation of computers is better than the previous. Gun was better than crossbow car better than horses, modern cars better than cars from 10 years ago. 4E is better than 3e which was better than 2e which was better than 1e.
26 all I know is that if people paid too much attention to tradition we would still be in the dark ages. Each new generation of computers is better than the previous. Gun was better than crossbow car better than horses, modern cars better than cars from 10 years ago. 4E is better than 3e which was better than 2e which was better than 1e.
I agree, but to follow your logic, a 4E Dragonlance setting *will* be better than the 3E and 2E versions, so if it's better because it's new, how does that make it bad? But (once again) it all boils down to, you don't run WOTC, therefore if you hate Dragonlance so much, don't buy the updated books when they come out and go on your little hungerstrike, I doubt they will notice. But don't slam tradition for the sake of "new", it's immature and rude.
I agree, but to follow your logic, a 4E Dragonlance setting *will* be better than the 3E and 2E versions, so if it's better because it's new, how does that make it bad? But (once again) it all boils down to, you don't run WOTC, therefore if you hate Dragonlance so much, don't buy the updated books when they come out and go on your little hungerstrike, I doubt they will notice. But don't slam tradition for the sake of "new", it's immature and rude.
The only way DL will be better is if they remove kender, gully dwarves, tinker gnomes, oh and stop making evil characters the main characters of the books. When they left Mina alive after takhissis death and then used her as a main character i stopped reading. Evil characters should not be main characters. Besides DL has way too much interference from gods, especially evil ones. Everytime i read a new dl book it seemed like the good gods were being hoodwinked by some evil plot so transperent a 2 year old could have found them out. Besides people will want to use dl material in non dl games, so at some point someone im playing with will play a kender, just no.
With a new eddition I want a new setting to show it off, with an entirley new line up of dieties and ideas.
I mean ... if tradition is always bad and new is always better then it would follow that anything about the new rules that is not changed since the previous editions is bad.
I'm not saying resurrecting an old setting is good, but claiming it is bad simply because everything that is not new is bad means that 4E already sucks so badly we should all stop playing now.... Many, many things about the game have not changed since the 70s (the use of dice, the existence of many of the races and monsters, the fact that the game is still essentially an RPG, etc.). If your basic logic is true than all those things are bad because they are not new.
The only way DL will be better is if they remove kender, gully dwarves, tinker gnomes, oh and stop making evil characters the main characters of the books. When they left Mina alive after takhissis death and then used her as a main character i stopped reading. Evil characters should not be main characters. Besides DL has way too much interference from gods, especially evil ones. Everytime i read a new dl book it seemed like the good gods were being hoodwinked by some evil plot so transperent a 2 year old could have found them out. Besides people will want to use dl material in non dl games, so at some point someone im playing with will play a kender, just no.
With a new eddition I want a new setting to show it off, with an entirley new line up of dieties and ideas.
And you will probably get that new setting (took almost 3 years for Eberron after 3E launched), but along side the old favorites I'm sure. And if someone in your group wants to play a kender, that has nothing to do with WOTC, find a better group or talk to the DM.
As for improvements to DL, there is one thing everyone seems to be overlooking: Dragonmarks. Yes, I know they are Eberron, but why do you think FR has all the Spellscared? So there was continuity between all the settings. That being said, perhaps kender are simply halflings now, and the gods are nowhere to be found (or not as much) because of some catastrophic event? In order to update all the old settings, they have to work it in somehow for all the books to crossover the way they want. Just food for thought.
For the record, I think the statement that one would "drop D&D if they released a particular setting" is more then a little silly. At most, avoid buying the product you don't like. Even then, it could surprise you. I hated FR pre 4e. Now I actually like it...
Okay it was a little extreme, but i play in homebrew games and I know someone at some point will try to use dl material and play a kender or something. I cant stand kender cant stand them in the books, heck cant stand that many of the books raistlin is not a hero in fact the heroes should have killed him. The dragonlords were another bad idea why did they take over so much territory? Dumb idea. The only way that dl would be interesting is if they took out most of what made it dl.
Oh and yeah I had a hard time stomaching old FR as well way too many high powered npcs and way too much info in the books. Though 4e fixed all of those problems.
And you will probably get that new setting (took almost 3 years for Eberron after 3E launched), but along side the old favorites I'm sure. And if someone in your group wants to play a kender, that has nothing to do with WOTC, find a better group or talk to the DM.
As for improvements to DL, there is one thing everyone seems to be overlooking: Dragonmarks. Yes, I know they are Eberron, but why do you think FR has all the Spellscared? So there was continuity between all the settings. That being said, perhaps kender are simply halflings now, and the gods are nowhere to be found (or not as much) because of some catastrophic event? In order to update all the old settings, they have to work it in somehow for all the books to crossover the way they want. Just food for thought.
Ill be happy if they come out with a new setting first, or Darksun as its significantly different and interesting enough to be a setting where as dl is not.
Evil characters should not be main characters.
Why not? Because tradition says that the protagonist of a story must be good?
Why not? Because tradition says that the protagonist of a story must be good?
No mainly because its harder to emphathise with a villian or an evil person, thus for me at least its harder to get into books with evil people as the main characters, Ive never been fan of the Elric saga for the same reason though I know a lot of people like that series.
No mainly because its harder to emphathise with a villian or an evil person, thus for me at least its harder to get into books with evil people as the main characters, Ive never been fan of the Elric saga for the same reason though I know a lot of people like that series.
Read Frankenstein or Paradise Lost then.
26 all I know is that if people paid too much attention to tradition we would still be in the dark ages. Each new generation of computers is better than the previous. Gun was better than crossbow car better than horses, modern cars better than cars from 10 years ago. 4E is better than 3e which was better than 2e which was better than 1e.
Your reasoning doesn't work in all cases. Most people would not agree that U.S. Presidents have gotten better with every generation, that the Vietnam War was better than the Korean war, that Windows Vista is better than Windows XP, or that the Star Wars sequels are better than the original movies.
Innovation is often best when it's tempered with experience gained from tradition - for example, 4e wouldn't have been as good as it is without lessons learned from previous editions. By that reasoning, an old setting with some new innovations and ideas is just as likely to be good as a totally new setting, if not more so.
Your reasoning doesn't work in all cases. Most people would not agree that U.S. Presidents have gotten better with every generation, that the Vietnam War was better than the Korean war, that Windows Vista is better than Windows XP, or that the Star Wars sequels are better than the original movies.
Innovation is often best when it's tempered with experience gained from tradition - for example, 4e wouldn't have been as good as it is without lessons learned from previous editions. By that reasoning, an old setting with some new innovations and ideas is just as likely to be good as a totally new setting, if not more so.
Not really Ebaron was the best setting in 3.5 and in my opinion one of the best ever done for dnd. And in terms of ease of use if your not a computer expert vista is better than xp. In some ways the vietnam war was better, more soldiers who made it to hospitals lived, and our military was outfighting the enemy. It was in the political battle and battle for public perceptions that we lost.
Starwars Ill give you. Those were bad movies in every concivable way, except for special effects.
I just personally think a new eddition should do a new setting first before dusting off the old. Heck I would have prefered a new setting in 08 followed by all the old settings but thats just me.
Read Frankenstein or Paradise Lost then.
Or watch Doctor Horrible's Sing Along Blog. Though, I'm not sure Doctor Horrible counts as a villain. He's kind of an anti-villain.
Why limit everyone's choices, just because some people don't like them?
Granted, I've never felt that the DL gnomes made very good player characters, but I would like to see them return as NPCs at the very least because of their importance in spelljamming campaigns (which has now been folded into core.)
I would like to see the following settings return:
- Dark Sun
- Dragonlance
- Greyhawk
- Kara-Tur & Zakhara (as the extensions of Forgotten Realms they are)
- Urban Arcana (from D20 Modern)
- Masque of the Red Death (would go well with the new Ravenloft books)
- Abeir (a world ruled by the Primordials instead of the gods... would include Maztica, since it got switched over during the Spellplague)
- Ravenloft (more domains than the one we currently have)
I would also like to see:
- some new settings (such as the runner-ups in the campaign search)
- a campaign guide for the new D&D core setting (including the Nentir Vale from H1-H3, the Elsir Vale from the Scales of War adventure path, and the vampire-ruled kingdom from Open Grave, etc.) with Character Backgrounds like the ones in the FR guide
- more fully-fleshed-out Astral Dominions
- more information on the religions of the Core setting (done up like the section in the FR Campaign Guide) with where each dieties fall in the Greater/Lesser/Exarch hierarchy and what the priests of each religion are called.
- revisions of some of the old Spelljammer non-campaign-specific races (such as the Giff)
My thinking is that the game is now organized into 3 tiers of play and the pre-release content (and to a lesser extent the DMG) described those 3 tiers in general terms as
Heroic: the tier where you adventure mostly in the mortal world
Paragon: the tier where your adventures start extending out to the feywild and shadowfell
Epic: the tier where your adventures start extending out to the more distant planes
A traditional campaign setting (with the exception of planescape) details primarily the mortal world, and to a lesser degree the feywild and shadowfell.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a new campaign setting for the mortal planes but for the "setting" that covers the epic-level outer plane style of play to be also presented but in a mortal-plane-neutral way that all settings can use (i.e., more or less, planescape).
) to see three loosely connected campaign settings released (one for each tier of play) that enable a DM to easily mix and match the feywild/shadowfell and outer plane campaign settings with the mortal world of their choice.26 all I know is that if people paid too much attention to tradition we would still be in the dark ages. Each new generation of computers is better than the previous. Gun was better than crossbow car better than horses, modern cars better than cars from 10 years ago. 4E is better than 3e which was better than 2e which was better than 1e.
Two words for you
New Coke.
See newer isn't always better and tradition has it's place. How about those toilets designed to use only 75% percent of the water a regular toilet uses. Seemed like a good idea until people started reporting that they needed to flush it twice so now it was using more water. Not to mention I'm sick of going to public restrooms and everything uses a ******* sensor to activate, that's a real improvement over the way it used to work.
Course having said that I'd be disappointed if Greyhawk was next years setting and don't think they'd do anything interesting with Dragonlance. I'm hopping for Dark Sun because I've got fond memories of it and it fits well with 4 ED whole points of light.
to put that another way... I wouldn't be surprised (though maybe that is a problem because they said it would be surprising.
Thats an interesting idea, but it sounds like that would simply be an expanded Manual of the planes.
Thats an interesting idea, but it sounds like that would simply be an expanded Manual of the planes.
Maybe. 3 is maybe too much, but...two, one that focuses on mortal world play, and one that focuses on epic level planar play might be more reasonable. With paragon tier shadowfell/feywild play being the point in the middle where they overlap?
Either way, if they really meant what they said when they talked about making the outer planes more accessible and having different tiers of play focus on different planar niches, then traditional campaign settings, at least as they have been presented in past editions, don't fully cover it all by themselves.
Now, here is a different topic. Setting specific minis? If they plan for the MM and PHB specific minis, why not the settings as well?
Yes? No? Maybe so?
Maybe. 3 is maybe too much, but...two, one that focuses on mortal world play, and one that focuses on epic level planar play might be more reasonable. With paragon tier shadowfell/feywild play being the point in the middle where they overlap?
Either way, if they really meant what they said when they talked about making the outer planes more accessible and having different tiers of play focus on different planar niches, then traditional campaign settings, at least as they have been presented in past editions, don't fully cover it all by themselves.
I had a similar thought. While Planescape and Spelljammer may have been great sources for adventure (I started with 3e, so I wouldn't know), I wouldn't really call them settings. Especially now, since the hooks for those settings have already been incorporated into Core D&D. The benefit of this is that they can release a book (perhaps MotP2) that more fully develops these "sub-settings" without violating their self-imposed 'one-setting-per-year' rule.
I do know the feel of what I'd like to see. I'd like to see a setting in which places like Gloomwrought, The City of Brass, Mithrendain, and Sigil (not necessarily those place specifically, but planar locations like them), are a core part of the setting rather than places that get a parenthetical mention in an obscure appendix or sidebar.
As for what setting will we see in 2010. A surprise, eh? I'd say a merger of Planescape and Spelljammer, bring the two travel based settings back together.
I'd be unexcited about Ravenloft or Darksun. I like Ravenloft, and Darksun is interesting, but I've no desire to game in them. Greyhawk... would probably disappoint me. As for Dragonlance, probably half of everything after the original Chronicles is worthless. 5th age was an interesting system, but the implementation on DL just screwed the setting over worse than anything else could have.
I think the biggest problem with most settings is the shared world fiction that accompanies them. Lets face it, DragonLance was a world that didn't have anything earth shattering happen for 300 years after the Cataclysm. But once the novels picked up the timeline there wasn't 3 months of peace and quiet in the setting. And the introduction of new areas just meant that those places would soon be in the novels and go straight to hell with the rest of the world.
If I was a citizen of any campaign setting I would find some tiny, remote corner of the world where there was no history of ancient empires, a wilderness where no government existed, settle down, and pray that no idiot decided to write a source book that covered the area I lived in.
I think that they're going to release the most popular campaign settings out first, in a bid to get older players into the 4ed. Now, when I say popular, I don't mean internet popular. I mean actual popular, you know, where people buy product if it is related to this campaign. So no Planescape, Ravenloft, and Dark Sun for a while.
What I do see is Dragonlance and Greyhawk for 2010 & 2011. Dragonlance has novels published every two months, so there's a big market for a RPG book. They could devote one of their advertising pages in the back for the Campaign Book, and hopefully people will come.
Greyhawk for legacy purposes, lots of grognards swear by it, and a new book will surely bring them in to complain and moan and (hopefully) buy the book to see how the true setting for D&D has been ruined again. There's the added bonus that quite a few Paizo fans are also Greyhawk fans, so that's a little gift thrown out to the Pathfinder crowd.
ravenloft is unlikely though possable, greyhawk though not a chance in hell, to most players its as generic fantasy as they come, some of the older players would get it, i might out of old times sake but newer gamers would take one look and pass it by.
the most likely choice is darksun, if you noticed the novels have started to be republished and the setting is a good fit with the points of light idea.
add that to 2010 being the likely release of the psi rules.
You know. When they get to KI, I'd love to see an Asian setting that isn't Japan. I like Japan, really. But could we mix in a wider diversity of setting material?
yeah I think they should go the mythic china route myself
As for what setting will we see in 2010. A surprise, eh? I'd say a merger of Planescape and Spelljammer, bring the two travel based settings back together.
You know, I both really desire such a setting, and really fear it. The concept of mixing Planescape and Spelljammer is awesome. They already sort of made the whole phlogiston concept low key, and just made Spelljammers air ships with the magical ability to port from plane to plane. And, the idea of jamming the astral sea is awesome! But, one of the things that REALLY made Planescape for me is the circular concept of belief is reality is belief. This concept allowed for a lot of intelligent metafiction and metaphysics which I believe pushed the setting from standard setting into something I hesitantly call art. It was just a really intelligent setting. Now don't get me wrong, I really like the new Manual of the Planes and I don't mind the new cosmology, but the writers have said that the concept of belief shaping reality shaping belief is not really prevalent in the 4e cosmology. Up until now I have found that the writers have not actually written anything that contradicts the belief shaping reality shaping concept. But I sort of fear that if they released an official Planescape setting they might.
Read Frankenstein or Paradise Lost then.
honestly I feel that paradise lost is a dry read at best
You know, I both really desire such a setting, and really fear it.
It's a great concept that has so many ways to go wrong in the execution.
Dark Sun is a good example of a setting that could do this. It is a grim and gritty. A dying world where magic is dangerous and death is around every corner. A place that even the heroes must do what ever they need to do to survive. In other words: low fantasy. Existing low fantasy characters, such as Robert E. Howard's Conan, would not feel very out of place in Arthas. This makes Dark Sun a great way to showcase D&Ds potential to do these types of campaigns.
Both Greyhawk and Dragonlance on the other hand are high magic high fantasy world do not really show anything that the Forgotten Realms do not already showcase.
As for Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer (I love all of these settings), I believe they're being folded into the core 4th Ed world/setting, going by information released so far.
I can understand people's reservations about Dragonlance and Greyhawk (even though I'm a fan of both), but the only campaign setting that I truly thought was as dull as dishwater was Birthright, whoa.
But the campaign setting I would most like to see is Al-Qadim, I still feel it's the most elegant and interesting campaign setting to date.
Stuff like Greyhawk, Dragonlance and a host of other legacy settings could be done via Dragon without releasing three books for them.
WotC wants to bring D&D to the younger crowd? Yeah, I'm sure "you daddy enjoyed those novels 25 years ago" has a very big appeal to 12 year olds.:D
Huldvoll
Baron von Bomberg
Now tell me that wouldn't be surprising?
IF 2010 and 2011 will be Greyhawk / Dragonlance I will be severely disappointed
I agree...
I am hopeing for a new type of setting not another one like the two we have...Dark Sun is the highest on my list...but a new setting could be cool too.
I think Dark sun 2010...an asian settting 2011...an arabic setting 2012 wold be great...
Dragonlance and Eberon fanboys face off on the interwebs TO THE DEATH!
In all honesty though, id like to see the following settings get the 2 book treatment:
Darksun
Birthright
Planescape/Spelljammer (yes I think they should be combined into one setting)
I think settings like:
Dragonlance
Greyhawk
Ravenloft
Mystarra
would be better served with some block text included in other books, with perhaps a few DDI articles to supplement, or maybe even a single book release. They just are not different enough IMO to merit multiple releases. Thats not saying they are bad. I loved DL and Ravenloft as a kid. But really other than a few nuances there is not much more there from a story game mechanic standpoint that is really worth the page space. You could use 4e rules already with old Dragonlance or Ravenloft rules and it would work fine with amterial already published. Just need a little racial update to some of the unique races. Being added to an Annual MM could cover that. Besides I would love to have a couple ready to go Kenders in an MM to use as monsters
Players in my group would rejoice.I am also of the opinion that there is room for more than two books for some of the more flagship settings. I would love to see a FR annual or annuals to some of the other settings (or maybe just more digital support).
I am also in favor of a brand new setting. Would like to see something modern, or something really dark.
But only time will tell.
Also my prediction for 2010 is Darksun. It just seems to make the most sense to me.
Love,
malkav
I think that any and all officially published campaign settings each need to showcase the various different types of worlds and styles that D&D can work in. Forgotten Realms is a great example of a High Magic High Fantasy world, and Eberron shows what a pulp fantasy steam/magic punk world looks like. Any forthcoming 1st party setting need to do the same for other sections of the fantasy genre.
Dark Sun is a good example of a setting that could do this. It is a grim and gritty. A dying world where magic is dangerous and death is around every corner. A place that even the heroes must do what ever they need to do to survive. In other words: low fantasy. Existing low fantasy characters, such as Robert E. Howard's Conan, would not feel very out of place in Arthas. This makes Dark Sun a great way to showcase D&Ds potential to do these types of campaigns.
In 1st, 2nd, 3.0, & 3.5, FR was a High Fantasy world.
Now, it is a High Fantasy post-apocalypse world.
Greyhawk should get a setting treatment to show a standard
High-Fantasy world in its prime.
Both Greyhawk and Dragonlance on the other hand are high magic high fantasy world do not really show anything that the Forgotten Realms do not already showcase.
Actually, they DO, they showcase something the Forgotten Realms does not: fantasy worlds that are healthy and whole, not reeling from a world-shaking disaster.
WotC wants to bring D&D to the younger crowd? Yeah, I'm sure "you daddy enjoyed those novels 25 years ago" has a very big appeal to 12 year olds.
Hey, it's worked for EVERY edition of D&D since the beginning, at least for 14 -16 year-olds:
Bulfinch's Mythology
Mallory's Le Morte De Arthur
White's Once & Future King
Alexander's The Chronicles of Prydain
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (incl. the Hobbit & the Silmarillion)
Howard's Conan
Lieber's Fahferd & the Grey Mouser
Moorcock's Elric of Melnebone
Lackey's Valdemar novels
and these days, folks add in Weiss & Hickmann's Dragonlance, too.
Sorry, but classic fantasy literature has always been the biggest draw into the game for D&D players from the very beginning.
Why else would anyone want to play a fantasy role-playing game but to emulate their literary heroes, but in a way telling their own, new stories?
PS: Interestingly, in the "This month" column in Wizard's website, a DS novel is highlighted.
Edit: Yes, RC, you're the only one. We gamers are a nostalgic bunch and want our old settings back! :p
Not all of us who want Dark Sun are being Nostalgic.
I started D&D with 3.5, and I want Dark Sun because it interests me more than anything.
Dragonlance was fun, but I've played a DL campaign, and now have no desire to play it again. (BTW, I have no idea which novel everyone hates. I've only read a few of the trilogies.)
Planescape, I've played(sort of.). Fun, but I'm in a HUGE, LOOOONG planscape campaign right now. (That's starting to come to an end, one way or another. The Primes are starting to collapse. Not my fault.)
Ravenloft doesn't interest me enough, and Greyhawk... meh. I've done enough generic fantasy.
Dark Sun is a good example of a setting that could do this. It is a grim and gritty. A dying world where magic is dangerous and death is around every corner. A place that even the heroes must do what ever they need to do to survive. In other words: low fantasy. Existing low fantasy characters, such as Robert E. Howard's Conan, would not feel very out of place in Arthas. This makes Dark Sun a great way to showcase D&Ds potential to do these types of campaigns.
This is what I'm talking about. Dark Sun has the most to offer as far as new play type. Planescape is a great setting but it's very 'out there' and it might do to bring that type of play in at a later date when you've hashed out other concepts. Conan style play is very Dark Sun style and the setting would allow them to showcase the Psionic Power Source while experimenting with changes in Arcane and Divine.
On the same note Ravenloft would be great to showcase Gothic Horror Fantasy.
i also would love ravenloft... or oriental something ;)
I think the real problem with Dragonlance, imho, is that there are too few factions and groups in the world. It makes the sort of stories available for adventures have a lot less variation than you can have in other settings. It doesn't hurt it much for novels, but I think it does hurt it for adventuring. (Not that I don't love DL or many elements thereof such as Kender, Tinker Gnomes, the Wizards of High Sorcery, etc). When all the evil gods kow-tow to Tak and most any significant plot is her doing, it would get a bit boring after a while.
Now maybe a revamped Krynn or a Kyrnn-inspired setting would work a lot better.
This is what I'm talking about. Dark Sun has the most to offer as far as new play type. Planescape is a great setting but it's very 'out there' and it might do to bring that type of play in at a later date when you've hashed out other concepts. Conan style play is very Dark Sun style and the setting would allow them to showcase the Psionic Power Source while experimenting with changes in Arcane and Divine.
On the same note Ravenloft would be great to showcase Gothic Horror Fantasy.
Either that or the water world they talked about, ships pirates, burried treasure as well as a lot of morally grey area? YES please.
Also people have mentioned birthright and Mystara could someone tell me what those two are? I have no familarity with either of those.
Birthright was before my D&D playign time, but as I understand it, it was on a slightly larger scale. You were a divinely empowered king/ruler, with a castle, and you gained land and sieged against other rulers. Sort of like a tabletop version of Heroes of Might and Magic. IIRC, turns or rounds were measured in months, not seconds.
And if you notice when looking at the schedule there are 6 Eberron novels and 6 Dragon Lance novels to be released next year.
I have always said that when they pulled the license on the DL stuff that it was going to be the next campaign setting.
Mystara was, and someoen correct me if I'm wrong, a sort of Aztec-y setting that was eventually folded into the Forgotten Realms (along with Kara-Tur and Al Quadim).
Your thinking Matzeca, the chunk of the world that traded places with Returned Aber. Mystara was the D&D Basic Set default world. It was popular enough that they had AD&D varients of the setting. What was cool was the setting had Immortals (a concept that Epic Tier Destinies borrowed from), a Hollow Inner World sub setting, and was the origin of the some the unique sub-sub settings like Red Steel.
Also, there HAVE been Dark Sun books being released. They're re-releasing the Dark Sun 4 book intro arc!
Your thinking Matzeca, the chunk of the world that traded places with Returned Aber. Mystara was the D&D Basic Set default world. It was popular enough that they had AD&D varients of the setting. What was cool was the setting had Immortals (a concept that Epic Tier Destinies borrowed from), a Hollow Inner World sub setting, and was the origin of the some the unique sub-sub settings like Red Steel.
Also, there HAVE been Dark Sun books being released. They're re-releasing the Dark Sun 4 book intro arc!
They have not released a new Dark Sun novel in quite some time. And none are listed to be released any time soon either.
They have not released a new Dark Sun novel in quite some time. And none are listed to be released any time soon either.
No not a new one. But they have be re-releasing the old ones. One that have gone years out of print mind you. And if it was coming in 2010 I might wait till then to release a novel tied to the revamped line. Then again, most of their novels are tied to Forgotten Realms and Eberron. ;)
Has anyone even looked at the 2009 product release schedule. You will not find one Planescape or Darksun book or novel listed anywhere.
You obviously haven't looked.
The Prism Pentad by Troy Denning is being re-released. It's on the sidebar. It's DARK SUN.
Book three was just released, and the next two are coming in March and May(?)
Edit: TheLoneCleric: It's a 5 book series. My local Borders doesnt' carry it(and yet they have about 30,000 copies of "The thousand Orcs" [schmucks]). So I have them all on order.
and the novels are split between DL and FR, Eberron doesn't really have that much when viewed between those two.
The number of Dragon Lance novels has increased for the year of 2009 and Dragon Lance was specifically mentioned at GenCon 2008 as being updated to 4th edition. Also by WOTC pulling in all of the rights to DL last year would lead me to believe that they will be doing the conversion in house and not leave it to another party.
I have not heard any movement on the Dark Sun rights being pulled back in to WOTC. And being that it was not supported in 3.X by WOTC but by other parties its hard to tell if they will convert it in house or try and see if another party will do it.
And I know its not popular but info was also stated about Greyhawk being updated and its time line being reset as well.
You would see some new novels being released prior to the release of the setting. And if it was coming out in 2010 you would see 1 or more new books coming out.
The number of Dragon Lance novels has increased for the year of 2009 and Dragon Lance was specifically mentioned at GenCon 2008 as being updated to 4th edition. Also by WOTC pulling in all of the rights to DL last year would lead me to believe that they will be doing the conversion in house and not leave it to another party.
I have not heard any movement on the Dark Sun rights being pulled back in to WOTC. And being that it was not supported in 3.X by WOTC but by other parties its hard to tell if they will convert it in house or try and see if another party will do it.
And I know its not popular but info was also stated about Greyhawk being updated and its time line being reset as well.
Links or it didn't happen.
And Dragonlance should be put to rest with Al-Quaddim.
You obviously haven't looked.
The Prism Pentad by Troy Denning is being re-released. It's on the sidebar. It's DARK SUN.
Book three was just released, and the next two are coming in March and May(?)
Edit: TheLoneCleric: It's a 5 book series. My local Borders doesnt' carry it(and yet they have about 30,000 copies of "The thousand Orcs" [schmucks]). So I have them all on order.
and the novels are split between DL and FR, Eberron doesn't really have that much when viewed between those two.
I really think that you are grasping at straws and hoping really really hard. If you are holding on to a re release of a set of novels as a sign of the release of Dark Sun as the next setting.
I liked the Dark Sun setting and want to see it done for 4th edition. But I have seen more evidence of other settings coming before Dark Sun.
And as for the new novels:
2008 - 3 Eberron, 5 Dragonlance and 14 Forgotten Realms
2009 - 4 Eberron, 6 Dragonlance and 19 Forgotten Realms
I really think that you are grasping at straws and hoping really really hard. If you are holding on to a re release of a set of novels as a sign of the release of Dark Sun as the next setting.
I liked the Dark Sun setting and want to see it done for 4th edition. But I have seen more evidence of other settings coming before Dark Sun.
And as for the new novels:
2008 - 3 Eberron, 5 Dragonlance and 14 Forgotten Realms
2009 - 4 Eberron, 6 Dragonlance and 19 Forgotten Realms
Your evidence is just as circumstantial as mine, Skippy.
Your evidence is just as circumstantial as mine, Skippy.
You are welcome to go and listen to the Dragonlance people talking about it at Gencon
http://www.dlcanticle.com/2008/08/31/the-dragonlance-canticle-ep-17-gen-con-fun/
I will try and find the actual conference that they reference above at about the 37 minute mark. I would listen to it for a good 10 mins if you have the time. Or listen to the whole thing as well, Spanky.
I have not heard any movement on the Dark Sun rights being pulled back in to WOTC. And being that it was not supported in 3.X by WOTC but by other parties its hard to tell if they will convert it in house or try and see if another party will do it.
Umm... dude. Dark Sun was never licensed out. It was updated to 3.5 in Dungeon and Dragon magazines, this was before Paizo was spun off, iirc.
Umm... dude. Dark Sun was never licensed out. It was updated to 3.5 in Dungeon and Dragon magazines, this was before Paizo was spun off, iirc.
I think he is confusing Dark Sun with Dragonlance, that was what WOTC pulled back last year (around the same time they took back Dungeon/Dragon magazine) and started all the talk of 4E in the first place.
Dragonlance was cool back in the days of the old SSI trilogy of Champions of Krynn, Death Knights of Krynn, and Dark Queen of Krynn. I suddenly want to play those now, but I bet someone is scalping them on Amazon for $70+ like they were with Torment.
I
Sorry, but classic fantasy literature has always been the biggest draw into the game for D&D players from the very beginning.
Why else would anyone want to play a fantasy role-playing game but to emulate their literary heroes, but in a way telling their own, new stories?
Because it's fun. I couldn't care less about 'classic literature' (or literature period, for that matter). I like Eberron BECAUSE it is not a classic fantasy world.
Bah, an old setting they haven't released yet is unsurprising. A new setting is unsurprising. Therefore it can only be a setting they've already released!
Forgotten Realms 2.0
Rise of the Machines
Takes place after Gondian engineers have made mechomechanic beings which have laid waste of most of Faerun (and their creators), and the adventurers must fight to free the peoples. Along the way they might meet Elminster the Technowizard (do not bother him while he's jamming) and Cyberdrizzt fluent of over 6 million forms of angst. Btw, Shar is behind the whole thing.
You win the Internet.
Also, don't forget the Cyborg Aboleths.
Hey, it's worked for EVERY edition of D&D since the beginning, at least for 14 -16 year-olds:
(...snip...)
Sorry, but classic fantasy literature has always been the biggest draw into the game for D&D players from the very beginning.
Why else would anyone want to play a fantasy role-playing game but to emulate their literary heroes, but in a way telling their own, new stories?
Beg to differ on two points:
- How does the classic fantasy literature's role as biggest draw and the dwindling number of new players compute?
- I wouldn't count the Dragonlance novels as fantasy classics. Nice to read, moderately interesting characters, yes, but that's it.
Sorry for the short answer and the lack of arguments, but I'm somewhat tired and at the same time listening to Hannes Wader... :yawn:
Huldvoll
Baron von Bomberg
Beg to differ on two points:
[LIST=1]
[*]How does the classic fantasy literature's role as biggest draw and the dwindling number of new players compute?
Because classic fantasy literature is also dwindling away, why pick up a book and read about heroic combat and adventure, when it's only a mouse click away (WoW). In the days of ipod, PSP, Nintendo DS and Guitar Hero, why would anyone want to read? All of the player's I've ever gamed with were drawn to DnD by either Lord of the Rings or other (as you mention, not quite classic) fantasy novels. The attention span is what is dwindling, hence so are the numbers of new players.
They also mentioned making Dark Sun "more 'Barsoom-y'" if they were to revisit it. I'm hoping for something new, or a heavily modified Dark Sun. The only problem with a setting that is very different from FR/Eberron is that the designers would like their settings to be able to use all of the other D&D books. A setting like DS (with it's unique take on the races, etc.) might not really fit in to that agenda.
My two cp:
I personally think it will be Dragonlance for a few reasons. Firstly, before they pulled back the rights to Dungeon/Dragon magazine, they recalled Dragonlance from the very people who helped create it. And, even though it's only the second year, it seems like a pattern might immerge. First was FR, a staple to every "old school" gamer, we've had that setting almost as long as the game itself. Then there was Eberron, the newest setting in the game. It was like they are trying to bring both ends together. So, 2010 should be Dragonlance, another classic setting, with 2011 either being one of the newer settings from2E (Planescape being my best guess) or a completely new setting. I may be completely wrong, but this makes sense to me, catering to the old gamers like myself, and then brining in newblood with fresh ideas.
Ok, I'm done, where's my change?
I think you are very close, but I am thinking Dark Sun in 2010 followed by "Kara-Tur" in 2011 then DragonLance in 2012. Maybe Planescape in 2013, I fear spelljammer in 2014. The interesting thing is, time will tell us whose guesses are right or wrong.
Game on,
-jjm
Greyhawk had one of the most sucessful runs in RPGA and add that it is also one of the oldest. It will definatly be a great 4ed world, and it does not remind me of FR in the slightest. It stays truer to the "Tolkeinesque" fantasy than any other setting..
I look forward to buying them both :D
Maybe Planescape in 2013,
Like I said once before, don't get your hopes up about Planescape. It's being folded into Core. Sigil was in MotP and will be featured prominently in the DMG2. If they folded it into Core, there's no reason for a whole setting for it since it already exists. It will likely have more support in future issues of Dragon (they already had the Mercykillers article which is a Sigil faction). Still doesn't mean it's outside the realm of possibility, but highly unlikely.
How does the classic fantasy literature's role as biggest draw and the dwindling number of new players compute?
Got anything to back that idea up?
Eberron and Dark Sun are both heavily into psionics so there should be something different between them, a new setting would be good or perhaps an old one would be good, not Dragonlance or Greyhawk, but maybe Mystara.
Bel
Since I think Planescape, Ravenloft and Spelljammer have been absorbed by the core setting, they are not really in the running.
Eberron and Dark Sun are both heavily into psionics so there should be something different between them, a new setting would be good or perhaps an old one would be good, not Dragonlance or Greyhawk, but maybe Mystara.
Bel
If Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer have been folded into core than maybe we'll get some in depth material on them for 4e without requiring a campaign setting book. Even though a campaign setting book for 4e would be nice.
Wasn't Mystara folded into the FR?
Not last I heard. But I've already seen someone confuse Mystara with Maztica.
Not last I heard. But I've already seen someone confuse Mystara with Maztica.
I would think the confusion comes more frequently from Mystra and Mystara than from Maztica.
I second the Forgotten Realms 2.0. "Now with Techno Elminster."
"Y'all ready for this."
Bwee-boop-dwh bup-bup-bup buh-bup-dah
Dark Sun could be a cool intro for the upcoming Elemental classes too. Druids & Clerics work, but the upcoming Elementals would fit in there nicely.
It was a gamer pun. Probably not a good one, but it was there.
If "legacy" purposes are a reason, then Mystara/Hollow Earth is another possibility. It was previously associated with the "basic" D&D rules, but since there's no difference between "basic" and "advanced" D&D these days, there's no reason to exclude it as a possibility.
I vote Hollow World...... just so I can say ... "man it smells like wet Hutaakan"
How does the classic fantasy literature's role as biggest draw and the dwindling number of new players compute?
and you asked:
Got anything to back that idea up?
Anecdotal evidence, what else? ;) I'm playing Advocatus Diabolo here.
RPG shops closing, RPG conventions being swamped by MMORPGers, Germany's largest RPG being handed down from a mid-size publisher to a small-sized one and the amount of money being paid to MMORPGs, thus being not available for other purchases.
If someone could prove my 'statement' wrong, I'd be more than happy to admit my failure, but, up to now, nobody has...
Huldvoll
Baron von Bomberg
Because classic fantasy literature is also dwindling away, why pick up a book and read about heroic combat and adventure, when it's only a mouse click away (WoW). In the days of ipod, PSP, Nintendo DS and Guitar Hero, why would anyone want to read? All of the player's I've ever gamed with were drawn to DnD by either Lord of the Rings or other (as you mention, not quite classic) fantasy novels. The attention span is what is dwindling, hence so are the numbers of new players.
Right, and doesn't this mean that players and producers of roleplaying games should change and expand their ways of extracting new customers? That's why I advocate new settings designed to the preferences of a new, young crowd.
Huldvoll
Baron von Bomberg
Why do I think some people need an explanation?
It was a gamer pun. Probably not a good one, but it was there.
I just found it more amusing to go with an FRPG 2.0: ROTM slant. Maybe I should have made that more explicit.
Mystara sounds interesting and would be a surprise, though I am holding out for a new setting, something never seen before with a completley new take. After all if I want the old stuff I can just update it myself.
I'm thinking we'll see PHB3 in early 2010, with Psionics and Elemental Power Sources (Kalashtar a race in PHB3 and not Eberron CS?) and Dark Sun later that year. Or, since each CS Book looks like it will have its own class, maybe we'll see the first Elemental class in Dark Sun CS.
Would'nt it be cool if they did an Avatar: the Last Airbender CS?
Especially after they do the elemental power source, probably wont happen but it would be interesting.
Just give all players the "Planeswalker" spark and provide all new Epic paths that are flavored with the different colors of mana.
And of course, that whole "Wizards of the Coast" thing.
I still think a Dominaria (The world where "Magic: The Gather" was first based) would be interesting. 4th Edition has a strong theme of MtG to me.
I have no idea how you get that as a theme, but whatever does your boat floating.
Just give all players the "Planeswalker" spark and provide all new Epic paths that are flavored with the different colors of mana.
Does this mean that Blue Wizard can indeed shoot the food?
And of course, that whole "Wizards of the Coast" thing.
And I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
Thinking it would almost have to be Dragonlance, the novels are selling well and have been for decades, certainly the most popular setting after FR. Dark Sun is a poor fit for 4E, its a harsh low magic item setting and thats a bit tough to work into 4Es magic dependent system, they could have a mandatory +1 to Attack/Damage/Defenses every 5 levels. Even with that adjustment it would take a good deal of patience and playtesting to iron out Dark Sun for 4E play. Dragonlance on the other hand would be an exciting change of pace with its rich developed races and the many great stories which have been pouring out of its novels. If you read the Dragonlance novels it almost seems like they are leading up towards a shift to 4e already. Great stuff, can't wait to see if WotC does the right thing and brings DL back into the fold.
I'm sorry, but how is Dragonlance really that different from Forgotten Realms, or even the "implied setting"? They and Greyhawk are just different shades of the same basic fantasy theme. Eberron is at least a little different and Dark Sun a fair amount.
(I probably like Dragonlance more than FR or Eberron honestly, but I think the point still stands)
As for the "Wizards of the Coast" thing. It's supposed to mean.. that, the company now makes both of the games. It wasn't supposed to suggest that it was "obvious" just that, if it were done.. it would "make sense".
I don't recognize where the "shooting the food" reference comes from.
The "stong MtG theme" is in Keywords. Interrupts. Power Cards. Instants, Sorceries, and Summons.. I mean, umm.. At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies. I didn't say "completely the same".
Maybe it's just that I don't use power cards? I look at the spread sheet where my characters powers are listed to reference what he can do. I don't see At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies any differently than the old At-Will, x times per y time interval, and once a day abilities were in previous editions. As for keywords, ever since at least 1e there was a token effort towards them, but they were poorly implemented. There were weapons that did extra damage, for example, to "reptilian" creatures. Would a giant armadillo be "reptilian"? It sure looks like a lizard (it's a mammal). There were certain abilities that only worked on giants, or goblinoids, or orcs, etc. Well, if an ability only works on orcs, what about ogrillions? Or orogs?
As for the "Wizards of the Coast" thing. It's supposed to mean.. that, the company now makes both of the games. It wasn't supposed to suggest that it was "obvious" just that, if it were done.. it would "make sense".
Has made both games since... Was it '99? I don't remember.
I don't recognize where the "shooting the food" reference comes from.
Gauntlet. Very old arcade game, 80s era. Remade a handful or so years ago.
Gauntlet. Very old arcade game, 80s era. Remade a handful or so years ago.
lol, I remember Gauntlet. Now that was a good game
Anyway, are you all really still debating this? Seriously it doesn't look like wizards pays those of us here in the forums much attention, particularly not in topics like this. I mean sure we can post what we want but its arguing opinion vs opinion for the sake of nothing. Seriously, people, quiet down, be patient and wait, we'll see next years product list before you all explode from the anxiety. I can all but guarantee you that.
The "stong MtG theme" is in Keywords. Interrupts. Power Cards. Instants, Sorceries, and Summons.. I mean, umm.. At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies. I didn't say "completely the same".
It's been well established that D&D 4E killed Magic: The Gathering & It's own mini's game and took their stuff. ;) Wonder what the exp for that was.
Per Wikipedia "His entry in the setting search remains the unpublished property of Wizards of the Coast, and Burlew is under a non-disclosure agreement to not discuss it."
Could this be a possible selection to the "surprising" next setting?
I don't know if this possibility has been mentioned on the other pages but my understanding is that the Fantasy Setting Search won by Keith Baker(Eberron) also had a finalist by the name of Rich Burlew(Order of the Stick).
Per Wikipedia "His entry in the setting search remains the unpublished property of Wizards of the Coast, and Burlew is under a non-disclosure agreement to not discuss it."
Could this be a possible selection to the "surprising" next setting?
It is certainly a possibility, but I'm personally am leaning towards that being the 2011 setting. My thinking is that they are going to go with a classic setting followed by a "new" setting and then repeat. So first it was Forgotten Realms, a classic, followed by Eberron, a new one, then the next one will be a classic setting(I'm thinking Dark Sun), and following that would be a runner up from the contest(I believe there were two other finalists). Of course this is entirely conjecture on my part.
So first it was Forgotten Realms, a classic, followed by Eberron, a new one
But Eberron isn't really new; it's sort of become another standard/classic D&D campaign setting. People are thinking/wanting something new/fresh.
I definitely agree with you leaning towards Dark Sun for next year (please).
But Eberron isn't really new; it's sort of become another standard/classic D&D campaign setting. People are thinking/wanting something new/fresh.
I definitely agree with you leaning towards Dark Sun for next year (please).
When I said new, I meant either not from 1st/2nd edition or roughly under 5 years old(either works, so go with whichever works best for you).
When I said new, I meant either not from 1st/2nd edition or roughly under 5 years old(either works, so go with whichever works best for you).
Neither of them work for me, 5 years ago is old in terms of this game/games (that could very well be the lifespan, looking at power sources, for 4th Ed).
"Waiter, stop bringing us this old wine, we want something fresh!"
Neither of them work for me, 5 years ago is old in terms of this game/games (that could very well be the lifespan, looking at power sources, for 4th Ed).
"Waiter, stop bringing us this old wine, we want something fresh!"
Here's your grape juice, Sir.
Here's your grape juice, Sir.
damn it I was drinking OJ when i read that...walks off to get towel to clean laptop...
Here's your grape juice, Sir.
Thank you, and there are so many snails on her plate you can't even see the food, now go get us those melted cheese sandwiches you talked us out of earlier!
So, I think while it isn't the best thing to narrow down the setting choices, it does make sense to narrow it down to ones where a class that isn't one of the above stands out. So, stuff like a Psionic class in Dark Sun for instance.
So, I think while it isn't the best thing to narrow down the setting choices, it does make sense to narrow it down to ones where a class that isn't one of the above stands out. So, stuff like a Psionic class in Dark Sun for instance.
Not exactly. They can always build a new class that takes the features of an old one and uses it in new ways. Nothing says you can't steal feats from older books.
Not exactly. They can always build a new class that takes the features of an old one and uses it in new ways. Nothing says you can't steal feats from older books.
Thats true, I find that the best settings are those that borrow shamlessly from a lot of different sources both in fantasy literature and in games.
The homebrew Im desiging borrows from darksun,Dune, frostburn, wild west movies, with a little steam punk mixed, and also a bit of influence from the Clan of the Cave Bear series of books.
I love books and even movies that take old concepts and reimagine them. Which is one of the main reasons why I want something new that uses some of the old ideas, but doesnt try to mimic them exactly. I would be perfectly happy with settings inspired by the old ones without being the old ones, ie if they never released darksun per se but had a desert world with some darksun elements as well as some prince of persia and whatever thrown in.
Let the old settings rest while taking from them, not going to happen but still I think each eddition should have completley new settings while using the online mags to have updated info for the older settings that way everyone wins.
Thank you, and there are so many snails on her plate you can't even see the food, now go get us those melted cheese sandwiches you talked us out of earlier!
I warned you against the escargo, sir. Not being a french restaurant, it is not our speciality.
Might I reccommend the "Duke Nukem Forever" Burger?
Guarenteed to eventually come out of our kitchens. Maybe.
You know this probably has been mentioned before, but sorta popped into my head. The next setting after Eberron almost definitely cannot have a Martial, Divine, Arcane or Primal class as its signature class. Since all the Power books will have been released by then, so it won't get full coverage.
So, I think while it isn't the best thing to narrow down the setting choices, it does make sense to narrow it down to ones where a class that isn't one of the above stands out. So, stuff like a Psionic class in Dark Sun for instance.
I don't think Artificers are being covered in Arcane Power.
I bet they will. As will swordmages. Swordmages got a PP in MoP, and drow and genasi got feats and PP's in MP. Why shouldn't Artificiers get covered?
becuse that class wont be realsed yet when Arcan power comes out...
becuse that class wont be realsed yet when Arcan power comes out...
Exactly. So a class showing up in a campaign book has no bearing as far as what is published in "Power" books. So the 2010 campaign class could be anything.
Keep in mind we may well see Martial Power 2, etc at some point. If not just a Dragon article.
Actually, they DO, they showcase something the Forgotten Realms does not: fantasy worlds that are healthy and whole, not reeling from a world-shaking disaster.
Greyhawk: Greyhawk Wars, the fall of the Great empire The Suel/Baklunish war...
Greyhawk is not in its prime, its semi-stable now since the Circle of eight have returned to the enforced neutrality, but I wouldn't call it at its 'height'.
Dragonlance vomits on itself every few years with a new cataclysm, so its not really at its 'height' either.
Well, with the Prism Pentad back in print, it seems to me that DarkSun is the obvious choice.
I just ordered the first two books of that series from Amazon. If I like them I'll probably get the last 3.
Also, I think a revised Wheel of Time campaign setting would be cool if they could get the rights. The Aes Sedai were too powerful in the d20 version compared to the other classes.
I just ordered the first two books of that series from Amazon. If I like them I'll probably get the last 3.
I JUST finished the first one.
Darn good.
DARN good, and well worth it.
I have the first 3. I'm glad I won't be kept waiting for years for the last 2.
*curses Robert Jordan for dying*
*curses Patrick Rothfuss for having a similar length between books*
It would be nice to see Ghostwalk revamped for 4th ed.
Also, I think a revised Wheel of Time campaign setting would be cool if they could get the rights. The Aes Sedai were too powerful in the d20 version compared to the other classes.
To be true to the setting channelers HAVE to be more powerful than everyone else, its one of those instances where balance isn't possible.
To be true to the setting channelers HAVE to be more powerful than everyone else, its one of those instances where balance isn't possible.
why?
remember this is a game not a novel...balance may not be good for a book...but it is needed in a game...in Doctor Who the TV show it is good that the Doctor is much better then the rest of the cast...but who really wants to play a game as Micky...especialy when another player is a time lord...
Of course, with a spelljammer in the back of MotP, and Sigil in it as well, Spelljammer or Planescape could be good bets.
Sigil will also be in the DMG 2. "Planescape" is core now. Same with Ravenloft (a realm in the shadowfell). So either of those settings is highly unlikely.
why?
remember this is a game not a novel...balance may not be good for a book...but it is needed in a game...in Doctor Who the TV show it is good that the Doctor is much better then the rest of the cast...but who really wants to play a game as Micky...especialy when another player is a time lord...
Because the setting has the Aes Sedai/other channlers as Much more powerful than swords men and ABLE to be swordsmen(women) on top of channeling ergo: A setting that calls itself Wheel of Time needs to be true to its setting.
The doctor actually isn't more 'powerful' beyond immortality, He just has vast repositories of information and a sonic screwdriver, he is still as soft a target as Micky and the rest. Yet a game where it was not possible to level entire armies through channeling calling itself Wheel of Time would fail.
Because the setting has the Aes Sedai/other channlers as Much more powerful than swords men and ABLE to be swordsmen(women) on top of channeling ergo: A setting that calls itself Wheel of Time needs to be true to its setting.
The doctor actually isn't more 'powerful' beyond immortality, He just has vast repositories of information and a sonic screwdriver, he is still as soft a target as Micky and the rest. Yet a game where it was not possible to level entire armies through channeling calling itself Wheel of Time would fail.
as would any game that had one of the doctor's companions having an INt, Know skill, or creativity of a time lord...
oh and that game would suck...becuse why would anyone want to play a side kick???
oh and as for soft target...yea cause micky has two hearts, and can regenrate...and has lost a hand, and that screwdriver can do ANYTHING...ok almost anything...
Yet a game where it was not possible to level entire armies through channeling calling itself Wheel of Time would fail
what if they just make all the army's 1st and 2nd level minnons...and most PCs are unqie...you know so we can have level 18 fighters and Rangers o n par with Wizards...then the same high level casters that can level an entire army...so can a sword swinger...
as would any game that had one of the doctor's companions having an INt, Know skill, or creativity of a time lord...
oh and that game would suck...becuse why would anyone want to play a side kick???
oh and as for soft target...yea cause micky has two hearts, and can regenrate...and has lost a hand, and that screwdriver can do ANYTHING...ok almost anything...
The Creativity of a Time Lord is actually fairly unique to the Doctor, so its more his player was creative. The TLs while powerful can 'die' for a while and a new doctor takes their place(s).
what if they just make all the army's 1st and 2nd level minnons...and most PCs are unqie...you know so we can have level 18 fighters and Rangers o n par with Wizards...then the same high level casters that can level an entire army...so can a sword swinger...
The problem with that is, the fact that the high level fighters/rangers do it. Oh and Rand did while still in heroic tier.
The problem with that is, the fact that the high level fighters/rangers do it. Oh and Rand did while still in heroic tier.
well I don't know much about the books, I know that name is the main character...so just say he was never heroic...the books started at paragon...then you can still set the game as balanced...
and that screwdriver can do ANYTHING...ok almost anything...
Just give it to McGuyver... then it will do EVERYTHING.
well I don't know much about the books, I know that name is the main character...so just say he was never heroic...the books started at paragon...then you can still set the game as balanced...
Yeah first book, Rand is 13-14. He isn't paragon tier. Oh AND I mistyped, the high level ranger/fighter types Can't do that. So either A). all the high level guys in the book are low level, or B). the armies aren't all minions.
Oh AND many times Rand has fought with his sword and had a harder time dispatching those things that he wiped out easily with the One Power.
Yeah first book, Rand is 13-14. He isn't paragon tier. Oh AND I mistyped, the high level ranger/fighter types Can't do that. So either A). all the high level guys in the book are low level, or B). the armies aren't all minions.
Oh AND many times Rand has fought with his sword and had a harder time dispatching those things that he wiped out easily with the One Power.
witch I am sure made a great book...but that would make a boreing game...why would you play a fighter in that world? the only answer every player has the oone power...
as would any game that had one of the doctor's companions having an INt, Know skill, or creativity of a time lord...
So does that mean the finale to Season 4 of the new series is non-canonicol to you? (One of the Doctor's companions gets the intellegence of the Timelord and is more creative than the Doctor in it.) :P
So does that mean the finale to Season 4 of the new series is non-canonicol to you? (One of the Doctor's companions gets the intellegence of the Timelord and is more creative than the Doctor in it.) :P
no, infact I started watching with the new stuff...so Jack I would say would be more of an exception then donna...she got that stuff for an eposiode...then got bent over the table...all her character growth gone...she can't even remember the doctor now..
witch I am sure made a great book...but that would make a boreing game...why would you play a fighter in that world? the only answer every player has the oone power...
Yup, which if it setup with balance in mind, would ruin the feel of the setting, and thusly: Its not a good choice for DnD setting. It wasn't a great choice for D20 book either, imo.
D&D: The Real World
Clip:
Mialee: O-M-G, the new guy! Have you seen him? He is so ugly.
-Screen switches to a Dragonborn watching via closed circuit-
DB: I'm ugly? Lady, there aren't any threads about how ugly I am. You ******* cricket!
-Cuts back to Mialee-
Mialee: And he constantly leaves the toilet seat up.
-Screen cuts to hidden camera of Mialee and DB arguing-
Mialee: You did it again!
DB: What?
M: Left the toilet seat up! I fell in!
DB: Honey, you're skanky *** would fall in even if it wasn't up.
-Screen cuts back to Mialee-
Mialee: And then there's that little ****, Lidda. She thinks were friends and junk. L-O-L, I'd try to give her beauty tips, but it wouldn't matter, no normal guy would take her seriously anyway. Except maybe a ****.
-Switches to Lidda, also watching on CC video-
Lidda: (twirling a dagger) That crazy witch? Like I listen to her. She's just jealous that the guys won't leave me alone and she hasn't had a date since she was a teenager... Did I mention she's an elf?
-Swaps to Tordek-
Tordek: Mialee? Y'know, dwarves and elves are famous for not getting along. I'm the wrong person to ask.
-Screen cuts to Tordek, Mialee, and Hennet having a fight in the kitchen-
Hennet: I'm telling you it's the best way to start a fire, I do it all the time!
Mialee: It's also the only thing you know how to do!
Hennet: Hey! I can burn things six ways from Sunday!
Mialee: Too bad you can't do the dishes occasionally!
Tordek: (mumbles under breath) Neither do you, I'm always stuck with it, ye' hypocritical *****.
-Screen cuts to Gimble-
Gimble: I've got nothing against the smelly sack of leather... What? No, the Dragonborn, not Mialee! I hate that ******* crack *** ***** piece of ****. Scaly and I get along. I admit, I'm a little bitter about being kicked out and all, but I've got this new gig. It's awesome! I love being a monster!
From the producers of CSI: Fallcrest, Golem Garage, and The Prime Material's Most Wanted comes D&D: The Real World.
-Cuts to Regdar-
Regdar: (slouching forward) Y'know, Monte didn't even want me in the old PHB. That hurt me. I trained really hard, y'know? And then I got overshadowed by just about everyone. And what now? In the new core books... they... (pulls out hanky, dabs eyes) they kill me... Like, three times, y'know? (blows nose) I mean, yeah, I'm not optimized or anything, but did I really deserve this? I just want to be loved! (collapses in a sobbing fit)
Tordek: (steps in from off screen, puts hands on Regdar's shoulders) There, there, lad. It'll be ok. (turns to camera) Kid needs a moment.
The new setting for 2010 will be:
D&D: The Real World
Wow. That was just hilarious. Well earned:
The Creativity of a Time Lord is actually fairly unique to the Doctor, so its more his player was creative. The TLs while powerful can 'die' for a while and a new doctor takes their place(s).
A bit off-topic, but as a big Doctor Who fan, I kinda have to disagree. The Doctor is definately one of the most interesting of the Time Lords (especially since its his show
) and he tends to be a bit more creative than others that we see in the show due to his beliefs and the fact that he actually believes in helping out the little guy. But such traits definately aren't unique to him.Remember The Doctor's grandaughter Susan, The Master, The Rani, Romana, Professor Chronotis (who was created by Douglas Adams, and it shows), Iris Wildthyme (whose TARDIS appears in the form of a double-decker bus), and I'm sure there's other I'm forgetting. I suppose you could say that while all Time Lords are crazy intelligent, the creativity we often see in the Doctor is really the creativity of the Renegade Time Lords, since everyone on that list (except Romana) is a renegade (including The Doctor). And Romana became a lot more creative during her time traveling with the Fourth Doctor and adventuring beside the Sixth and Eighth Doctors (in the audio drama side-stories.)