The 4E Monk is Psionic. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The 4E Monk is Psionic.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rauric
May 11, 2009 7:50:01 He uses psionics to fuel his abilities, dex is used to hit and str and wis are important for certain things. When the monk is unarmed he has reach and a +3 prof for his unarmed attacks and they can be enchnated as magic weapons. I have not read the full article so this is just a teaser.
#2
the_shaman
May 11, 2009 8:48:43 Is there a link to the article somewhere?
#3
Talae
May 11, 2009 11:43:11 http://wizards.com/download.asp?filename=375_Playtest_Monk.pdf

Very interesting to say the least. Uses lots of movement and has some controller tendancies.
#4
AvonRekaes
May 11, 2009 13:13:10
He uses psionics to fuel his abilities, dex is used to hit and str and wis are important for certain things. When the monk is unarmed he has reach and a +3 prof for his unarmed attacks and they can be enchnated as magic weapons. I have not read the full article so this is just a teaser.

You mean a reach of 1. As in, adjacent squares.
#5
Nived
May 11, 2009 18:09:46 At first I was taken aback, agast even when I heard the news, then I thought about it, and yeah makes perfect sense. In eastern culture the spirit and the mind are not seperate concepts. The root of psionic, psyche refers to the spirit in the original greek.

So a monk's spiritual eneregy "ki" being psionic actually makes perfect sense.

BUT TO ACTUALLY MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT EBERRON!

This is fantastic, it fits so wonderfully. The monks of Adar used psionics, before they joined with the quori becoming the kalashtar? Beautiful, will make non-kalashtar adarian characters that much more badass, rather than just 'those humans from where the kalashtar are from'.

So for the kalashtar, its a perfect fit, fantastic really. I suspect we'll see a lot of kalashtar monks around our gametables after the Eberron Player's Guide drops.

But what... I ask you, what does this mean for the monks of Khorvaire, the orders dedicated to Dol Dorn, The Mockery, Dol Arrah, and the Silver Flame.

Amusingly enough I find my answer right in the 3.5 Eberron Campaign Setting, page 39, the monk section, has a little 'day in the life' tid-bit about a young monk of the Silver Flame hunting down a kalashtar psychic warrior who 'knows something about a recent attack on her monestary'.

I'd say the monks of Khorvaire follow traditions brought with them from Sarlona and are the only particularly common psionic class in Khorvaire... which would make them a natural target for the Dreaming Dark. It could be that even though they follow the traditions of sharpening one's mind to harness one's body as a weapon they do not even fully understand the nature of their power.
#6
Gilo
May 11, 2009 21:01:29
I'd say the monks of Khorvaire follow traditions brought with them from Sarlona and are the only particularly common psionic class in Khorvaire... which would make them a natural target for the Dreaming Dark. It could be that even though they follow the traditions of sharpening one's mind to harness one's body as a weapon they do not even fully understand the nature of their power.

What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion?
#7
lucifernietzsche
May 11, 2009 22:17:22
What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion?

Probably.

Though...the general premise is that if the monks of adar were already training themselves in that way before the merging with the quori, doesn't it stand to reason that like in all worlds, if monk abilities are the same around the world, wouldn't the method of them be the same also?

At best, the monk would still be of the psionic source...but others would refer to it by other names. Same thing, they just don't call it psionic.
#8
RedRider
May 12, 2009 12:39:21
Though...the general premise is that if the monks of adar were already training themselves in that way before the merging with the quori, doesn't it stand to reason that like in all worlds, if monk abilities are the same around the world, wouldn't the method of them be the same also?

Nah. The mechanics are the same but the history, appearance and even forms behind the power can be completely different.
#9
the_shaman
May 12, 2009 13:31:03 A little strange, I guess - I was expecting them to be martial, but perhaps WotC decided to make them a bit like psychic warriors. Thanks for the link, folks, and have a nice evening.
#10
rauric
May 12, 2009 20:59:45 I think psy warriors will be defenders.
#11
matthra
May 12, 2009 21:30:35 Yeah and Soul Knives will be strikers, though the soul knife itself might be a challenge to make rules for.

I expect the base psionicist class will be broken in to, a mentalist style class that's a controller, and a psionicist that's a leader.
#12
lucifernietzsche
May 12, 2009 22:35:51
Nah. The mechanics are the same but the history, appearance and even forms behind the power can be completely different.

Then why bother explaining why for whatever reason monks around the world are psionic even if they're not humans from adar? Monks are always psionic, and there is no other kind. Maybe different names, but then who cares about names?

The soulknife will eat the psywar...and maybe even the ardent...and become a defender. I'd prefer psionics have one class for every role, so as to make possible a complete psionic party. That's one thing that irks me about not having a martial controller. I don't care about the grid, I just want to be able to build a full party out of any single power source. Don't care if controllers are "expendable" roles either, complete means all four, period. It's just a thing I have. An extra striker can wait for a campaign setting or something though. And soulknife could even be a series of heroic tier feats or a class build instead of a class...I could live with that. It'd better not be a paragon path though. I want to play a soulknife from level 1. If I don't get that, I may get a tad upset.
#13
sigil_beguiler
May 12, 2009 22:42:54 I think we may get a extra Psionic Striker not because they couldn't fill out the grid but that it is possible they could have already made up the Psionic classes while also developing the Monk. As such when it was finally decided the Monk was Psionic that would mean a extra Striker along with whatever the original Psionic Striker is.

Obviously just a guess, but I think not a bad one.
#14
_Mithreinmaethor_
May 12, 2009 22:43:42
Then why bother explaining why for whatever reason monks around the world are psionic even if they're not humans from adar? Monks are always psionic, and there is no other kind. Maybe different names, but then who cares about names?

The soulknife will eat the psywar...and maybe even the ardent...and become a defender. I'd prefer psionics have one class for every role, so as to make possible a complete psionic party. That's one thing that irks me about not having a martial controller. I don't care about the grid, I just want to be able to build a full party out of any single power source. Don't care if controllers are "expendable" roles either, complete means all four, period. It's just a thing I have. An extra striker can wait for a campaign setting or something though. And soulknife could even be a series of heroic tier feats or a class build instead of a class...I could live with that. It'd better not be a paragon path though. I want to play a soulknife from level 1. If I don't get that, I may get a tad upset.

I think the Defender will be called the Ardent personally.
#15
lucifernietzsche
May 12, 2009 22:50:48
I think the Defender will be called the Ardent personally.

Perfectly fine...as long as either they or the monk (not likely) have the inherent ability or the option from level 1 of utilizing a mind blade.
#16
_Mithreinmaethor_
May 12, 2009 23:07:41
Perfectly fine...as long as either they or the monk (not likely) have the inherent ability or the option from level 1 of utilizing a mind blade.

I dont know that we will see a mind blade come back. Its possible I guess
#17
lucifernietzsche
May 13, 2009 0:57:16
I dont know that we will see a mind blade come back. Its possible I guess

As a full-on class feature, maybe not. But it'd better be an option of some sort. Oh well...perhaps Darksun will be the next setting after all...and Soulknife will be in it.
#18
sigil_beguiler
May 13, 2009 1:00:48
As a full-on class feature, maybe not. But it'd better be an option of some sort. Oh well...perhaps Darksun will be the next setting after all...and Soulknife will be in it.

I could see it possibly being a universal feat option for Psionic users. It could almost like a weapon proficiency. You take Mind Blade Proficiency and every weapon you are Proficient with can generate a Mind Blade version.
#19
Grazel
May 13, 2009 6:46:40 And also just because monk has the psionic power source it doesn't mean that people in the world view what a monk does as psionics since more than the other psionic classes it'll probably be the least obvious that their powers come from the mind.

To many they'd probably view a monk as just an unarmed fighter and mistake them for martial just as many a warlock could be mistaken for something non-arcane since they make pacts to get their powers. A barbarian would likely be seen as 'martial' more than 'primal' to people in the world. The people in the world don't think of power sources as much as the players of the game do.
#20
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
May 13, 2009 20:12:43
http://wizards.com/download.asp?filename=375_Playtest_Monk.pdf

Very interesting to say the least. Uses lots of movement and has some controller tendancies.

Every time I click on the link it brings me right back here.
#21
Nived
May 13, 2009 20:43:32
Every time I click on the link it brings me right back here.

Are you a DDI subscriber?
#22
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
May 13, 2009 22:06:55
Are you a DDI subscriber?

Nope and thats why the link won't open.
#23
Axiomatic_Badger
May 14, 2009 7:32:44
I could see it possibly being a universal feat option for Psionic users. It could almost like a weapon proficiency. You take Mind Blade Proficiency and every weapon you are Proficient with can generate a Mind Blade version.

This.

With a note that is takes its enhancement bonus from your [INSERT GENERIC PSIONIC IMPLEMENT HERE], along with the properties and powers.

Monks should get a PP that lets them use thier unarmed enchantment for thier soulblade, have the blade count as a monk weapon regardless of its form, and change the type of weapon formed in combat.
#24
Alex_
May 14, 2009 10:11:40 The Arcane power source has 5 (6 when the Artificer comes out) classes, 2 of which are Strikers. The Martial power source has 4 classes, 2 of which are Strikers.

I don't think they're too terribly worried about having multiple strikers in a single power source.
#25
doctorhook
May 14, 2009 15:42:08
What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion?

The Monk is Psionic, but that doesn't have to mean "psychic". Rather, think of Psionics as "internal energy": the mind, the spirit, the soul. Does the Monks power come from his mind? From the energy of his soul? From a force called "ki"? It doesn't have to matter anymore, because it's all "internal energy" (or the interaction of it with "external energies").

Bear in mind that the translation of "ki/chi/qi" is approximately identical to that of the original meaning of the word "psyche": spirit, or breath.

Everything you once knew as "Ki" fits into 4E's "Psionic". Don't change your thinking, just your terminology.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rauric May 11, 2009 7:50:01	He uses psionics to fuel his abilities, dex is used to hit and str and wis are important for certain things. When the monk is unarmed he has reach and a +3 prof for his unarmed attacks and they can be enchnated as magic weapons. I have not read the full article so this is just a teaser.
#2 the_shaman May 11, 2009 8:48:43	Is there a link to the article somewhere?
#3 Talae May 11, 2009 11:43:11	http://wizards.com/download.asp?filename=375_Playtest_Monk.pdf Very interesting to say the least. Uses lots of movement and has some controller tendancies.
#4 AvonRekaes May 11, 2009 13:13:10	He uses psionics to fuel his abilities, dex is used to hit and str and wis are important for certain things. When the monk is unarmed he has reach and a +3 prof for his unarmed attacks and they can be enchnated as magic weapons. I have not read the full article so this is just a teaser. You mean a reach of 1. As in, adjacent squares.
#5 Nived May 11, 2009 18:09:46	At first I was taken aback, agast even when I heard the news, then I thought about it, and yeah makes perfect sense. In eastern culture the spirit and the mind are not seperate concepts. The root of psionic, psyche refers to the spirit in the original greek. So a monk's spiritual eneregy "ki" being psionic actually makes perfect sense. BUT TO ACTUALLY MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT EBERRON! This is fantastic, it fits so wonderfully. The monks of Adar used psionics, before they joined with the quori becoming the kalashtar? Beautiful, will make non-kalashtar adarian characters that much more badass, rather than just 'those humans from where the kalashtar are from'. So for the kalashtar, its a perfect fit, fantastic really. I suspect we'll see a lot of kalashtar monks around our gametables after the Eberron Player's Guide drops. But what... I ask you, what does this mean for the monks of Khorvaire, the orders dedicated to Dol Dorn, The Mockery, Dol Arrah, and the Silver Flame. Amusingly enough I find my answer right in the 3.5 Eberron Campaign Setting, page 39, the monk section, has a little 'day in the life' tid-bit about a young monk of the Silver Flame hunting down a kalashtar psychic warrior who 'knows something about a recent attack on her monestary'. I'd say the monks of Khorvaire follow traditions brought with them from Sarlona and are the only particularly common psionic class in Khorvaire... which would make them a natural target for the Dreaming Dark. It could be that even though they follow the traditions of sharpening one's mind to harness one's body as a weapon they do not even fully understand the nature of their power.
#6 Gilo May 11, 2009 21:01:29	I'd say the monks of Khorvaire follow traditions brought with them from Sarlona and are the only particularly common psionic class in Khorvaire... which would make them a natural target for the Dreaming Dark. It could be that even though they follow the traditions of sharpening one's mind to harness one's body as a weapon they do not even fully understand the nature of their power. What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion?
#7 lucifernietzsche May 11, 2009 22:17:22	What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion? Probably. Though...the general premise is that if the monks of adar were already training themselves in that way before the merging with the quori, doesn't it stand to reason that like in all worlds, if monk abilities are the same around the world, wouldn't the method of them be the same also? At best, the monk would still be of the psionic source...but others would refer to it by other names. Same thing, they just don't call it psionic.
#8 RedRider May 12, 2009 12:39:21	Though...the general premise is that if the monks of adar were already training themselves in that way before the merging with the quori, doesn't it stand to reason that like in all worlds, if monk abilities are the same around the world, wouldn't the method of them be the same also? Nah. The mechanics are the same but the history, appearance and even forms behind the power can be completely different.
#9 the_shaman May 12, 2009 13:31:03	A little strange, I guess - I was expecting them to be martial, but perhaps WotC decided to make them a bit like psychic warriors. Thanks for the link, folks, and have a nice evening.
#10 rauric May 12, 2009 20:59:45	I think psy warriors will be defenders.
#11 matthra May 12, 2009 21:30:35	Yeah and Soul Knives will be strikers, though the soul knife itself might be a challenge to make rules for. I expect the base psionicist class will be broken in to, a mentalist style class that's a controller, and a psionicist that's a leader.
#12 lucifernietzsche May 12, 2009 22:35:51	Nah. The mechanics are the same but the history, appearance and even forms behind the power can be completely different. Then why bother explaining why for whatever reason monks around the world are psionic even if they're not humans from adar? Monks are always psionic, and there is no other kind. Maybe different names, but then who cares about names? The soulknife will eat the psywar...and maybe even the ardent...and become a defender. I'd prefer psionics have one class for every role, so as to make possible a complete psionic party. That's one thing that irks me about not having a martial controller. I don't care about the grid, I just want to be able to build a full party out of any single power source. Don't care if controllers are "expendable" roles either, complete means all four, period. It's just a thing I have. An extra striker can wait for a campaign setting or something though. And soulknife could even be a series of heroic tier feats or a class build instead of a class...I could live with that. It'd better not be a paragon path though. I want to play a soulknife from level 1. If I don't get that, I may get a tad upset.
#13 sigil_beguiler May 12, 2009 22:42:54	I think we may get a extra Psionic Striker not because they couldn't fill out the grid but that it is possible they could have already made up the Psionic classes while also developing the Monk. As such when it was finally decided the Monk was Psionic that would mean a extra Striker along with whatever the original Psionic Striker is. Obviously just a guess, but I think not a bad one.
#14 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 12, 2009 22:43:42	Then why bother explaining why for whatever reason monks around the world are psionic even if they're not humans from adar? Monks are always psionic, and there is no other kind. Maybe different names, but then who cares about names? The soulknife will eat the psywar...and maybe even the ardent...and become a defender. I'd prefer psionics have one class for every role, so as to make possible a complete psionic party. That's one thing that irks me about not having a martial controller. I don't care about the grid, I just want to be able to build a full party out of any single power source. Don't care if controllers are "expendable" roles either, complete means all four, period. It's just a thing I have. An extra striker can wait for a campaign setting or something though. And soulknife could even be a series of heroic tier feats or a class build instead of a class...I could live with that. It'd better not be a paragon path though. I want to play a soulknife from level 1. If I don't get that, I may get a tad upset. I think the Defender will be called the Ardent personally.
#15 lucifernietzsche May 12, 2009 22:50:48	I think the Defender will be called the Ardent personally. Perfectly fine...as long as either they or the monk (not likely) have the inherent ability or the option from level 1 of utilizing a mind blade.
#16 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 12, 2009 23:07:41	Perfectly fine...as long as either they or the monk (not likely) have the inherent ability or the option from level 1 of utilizing a mind blade. I dont know that we will see a mind blade come back. Its possible I guess
#17 lucifernietzsche May 13, 2009 0:57:16	I dont know that we will see a mind blade come back. Its possible I guess As a full-on class feature, maybe not. But it'd better be an option of some sort. Oh well...perhaps Darksun will be the next setting after all...and Soulknife will be in it.
#18 sigil_beguiler May 13, 2009 1:00:48	As a full-on class feature, maybe not. But it'd better be an option of some sort. Oh well...perhaps Darksun will be the next setting after all...and Soulknife will be in it. I could see it possibly being a universal feat option for Psionic users. It could almost like a weapon proficiency. You take Mind Blade Proficiency and every weapon you are Proficient with can generate a Mind Blade version.
#19 Grazel May 13, 2009 6:46:40	And also just because monk has the psionic power source it doesn't mean that people in the world view what a monk does as psionics since more than the other psionic classes it'll probably be the least obvious that their powers come from the mind. To many they'd probably view a monk as just an unarmed fighter and mistake them for martial just as many a warlock could be mistaken for something non-arcane since they make pacts to get their powers. A barbarian would likely be seen as 'martial' more than 'primal' to people in the world. The people in the world don't think of power sources as much as the players of the game do.
#20 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 13, 2009 20:12:43	http://wizards.com/download.asp?filename=375_Playtest_Monk.pdf Very interesting to say the least. Uses lots of movement and has some controller tendancies. Every time I click on the link it brings me right back here.
#21 Nived May 13, 2009 20:43:32	Every time I click on the link it brings me right back here. Are you a DDI subscriber?
#22 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek May 13, 2009 22:06:55	Are you a DDI subscriber? Nope and thats why the link won't open.
#23 Axiomatic_Badger May 14, 2009 7:32:44	I could see it possibly being a universal feat option for Psionic users. It could almost like a weapon proficiency. You take Mind Blade Proficiency and every weapon you are Proficient with can generate a Mind Blade version. This. With a note that is takes its enhancement bonus from your [INSERT GENERIC PSIONIC IMPLEMENT HERE], along with the properties and powers. Monks should get a PP that lets them use thier unarmed enchantment for thier soulblade, have the blade count as a monk weapon regardless of its form, and change the type of weapon formed in combat.
#24 Alex_ May 14, 2009 10:11:40	The Arcane power source has 5 (6 when the Artificer comes out) classes, 2 of which are Strikers. The Martial power source has 4 classes, 2 of which are Strikers. I don't think they're too terribly worried about having multiple strikers in a single power source.
#25 doctorhook May 14, 2009 15:42:08	What about the Dhakaani monks then? Something the goblins developed while fighting the Xoriat invasion? The Monk is Psionic, but that doesn't have to mean "psychic". Rather, think of Psionics as "internal energy": the mind, the spirit, the soul. Does the Monks power come from his mind? From the energy of his soul? From a force called "ki"? It doesn't have to matter anymore, because it's all "internal energy" (or the interaction of it with "external energies"). Bear in mind that the translation of "ki/chi/qi" is approximately identical to that of the original meaning of the word "psyche": spirit, or breath. Everything you once knew as "Ki" fits into 4E's "Psionic". Don't change your thinking, just your terminology.