In the mean time is that whistling sound I hear the sky falling?
A few posters were taking alot of heat for voicing a negative or unpopular opinion, but from what I can see they were right! WotC is getting it all wrong. They haven't released a good product since Dark Sun.
People may be having alot of fun with Essentials, but all of my players (i'm a DM) that fell in love with 4E (that are fans from the time they were kneehigh to a grasshopper) hate the changes, and have all boycotted the crap thats being released.
Now all of a sudden they are pushing these "Fortune Cards" as a product. Lets just say I'm glad the last books I bought were the Dark Sun books.
No minis? Alright I guess. I'm not happy about it, but I also have way too many already. I feel sorry for DM's that started collecting 2 sets ago.
WotC puts all their eggs in one basket they are doomed to fail. How many people are going to buy Fortune Cards?
It really does'nt matter .... To answer the OP. My opinion is that WotC isn't listening, and the evidence is in the cancellations and "Fortune Cards".
I will still play 4E when D&D dies.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Bologna. Over the years I have been on this forum, I can tell you, they have seen plenty of doom and gloom over product releases and WotC decisions.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Because classes and races AREN'T WotC decisions...
There has been one constant, people villifying Wizards of the Coast over their decisions. The only thing that changes is which decision people are complaining about.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Bologna. Over the years I have been on this forum, I can tell you, they have seen plenty of doom and gloom over product releases and WotC decisions.
I agree. I seem to recall rampant speculation that D&D was going to be killed by 4e for example.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Bologna. Over the years I have been on this forum, I can tell you, they have seen plenty of doom and gloom over product releases and WotC decisions.
I agree. I seem to recall rampant speculation that D&D was going to be killed by 4e for example.
Let's not forget when they announced that the monk is psionic.... those were good times.
That said, I am disheartened at this particular change. In my attempt to be a designer, having a stable system on which to build my worlds on is a good thing. Without that, it's all just story; not bad, mind you, but still needs game play value.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Bologna. Over the years I have been on this forum, I can tell you, they have seen plenty of doom and gloom over product releases and WotC decisions.
I agree. I seem to recall rampant speculation that D&D was going to be killed by 4e for example.
Let's not forget when they announced that the monk is psionic.... those were good times.
Or how the VTT spelled the end of tabletop D&D.
You kidding? All I ever remember seeing on these forums is doom and gloom. The people spouting the garbage change. The garbage, however, is a constant. No wonder designers avoid these forums like the black plague...
The doom and gloom used to be over things like classes and races. Now the doom and gloom is over product releases and WotC decisions. That is the difference...
Bologna. Over the years I have been on this forum, I can tell you, they have seen plenty of doom and gloom over product releases and WotC decisions.
I agree. I seem to recall rampant speculation that D&D was going to be killed by 4e for example.
Let's not forget when they announced that the monk is psionic.... those were good times.
Or how the VTT spelled the end of tabletop D&D.
It didn't?
Now almost all I see is doom and gloom, ESPECIALLY here in future release. Heck future products announcements used to be exciting for me, I haven't looked forward to ANYTHING since last year for pete sake!
It just doesn't feel the same. No matter what your opinion of Essentials is you can't deny the fact that it split this place the same way an edition shift would have done. Its not one but it makes people act like one.I JUST got into this game and I'm already turning into a grognard WTH?!
Will Wizards learn something from this?
Indeed they shall. For example, they will learn that no matter what they do, many people will whine and complain that it isn't exactly what they would want and that means D&D is ruined for ever and the company will go out of business and the D&D line will get sold to a Buddhist monk.
4e and essentials was an edition shift in almost every single way in many peoples opinion; call it a new design philosphy if you want but many will disagree (we all know you may or may not disagree with this no need to latch onto this and thread jack). That re-enforces people's questioning.
WOTC's most successful products are CCG's and the newest game world has built that into the systema and suddenly one of the only products to come out as advertised and on time is a CCG element to add to DnD. That has me really worried about what the next big "design philosophy" could be. The world's biggest board game company also owns WOTC and suddenly WOTC is putting out board games. That has me worried too. I'm sure others share these 2 worries and these also re-enforce people's questioning.
There will always be doom and gloom but there is usually a silver lining somewhere. I havn't seen anything lately that makes me want to spend my extra time waiting for it or my money for that matter. I havn't bought a WOTC product since Dark Sun and my behavior won't change unless WOTC does something to change that.
Speaking of Hasbro... they totally should have made the Orcus mini into an action figure that comes with a base you could use on a mat ><
Orcus could have taken real swipe at the PCs!!
My group has branched out into other RPG systems... we got some SAGA games going and the guys tried Warhammer Fantasy... I got plans for some Cartoon Action Hour games in the near future... We still enjoy our 4e games immensely but you get the sense the PRODUCTS don't satiate everyone's desire for new stuff. They don't really talk about it but it feels that way.
Speaking of Hasbro... they totally should have made the Orcus mini into an action figure that comes with a base you could use on a mat ><
Orcus could have taken real swipe at the PCs!!
My best friend just had his 30th bday star wars costume party and the conversation immediately turned to "hey, we havn't played star wars in awhile. Maybe we should give 4e a rest." Sad but telling.
We also like Wheel of Time a lot.
So whatever, Essentials came out, some people were okay with it, other love it, others hate it; standard reaction; but then it seemed right then; nothing new was going to come out. Nothing new in the sense that it pushed the current boundaries or 4e; no new power sources, nothing that tantalized us from phb2 and phb3. Note: I like essentials well enough, but I really want new stuff.
Then all of sudden, any ray of hope in the form of trying to completely integrate the game from it's two forms is suddenly pulled from the product line, the only "new" book is essentially half-assing the source idea and completely obliterating new classes (save for a monster class?).
Yeah, there's a bunch of doom and gloom because there isn't a lot of faith left I'd wager. I want new products, and I want products that seem tantalizing and titillating; giving me that feeling that they're working with the 4e paradigm and pushing it as far as it could go; or at least trying out new things while still keeping that original design paradigm. Hell, it could be the new design paradigm, but the feeling that they're only doing class variants and not new classes makes me feel that they've given up on creating new things, and this does not inspire confidence.
Two: and lastly, homebrew in this edition is... unfriendly and terrible process and lacks any "guts" in changing or tweaking the way the game... does something (In the sense that no one saw the at-will and daily classes from phb3 or thought about adding new keywords or options in the action resource). Not everything, but lots of it just gets shot to hell with three standard responses, two of which are unfriendly and the third, I think is lazy. I dunno, I just know it's not fun to homebrew anything, from races and especially classes (it's just so intensive it's beyond difficult).
The Future Releases forum used to be filled with excited speculation about campaign worlds, books and adventures. Now we all know better: there is almost nothing coming except cards, board games and novels.
I was also a staunch defender of Dungeosn & Dragons Insider: I could not fathom any rational reason to forgo a subscription. Now there is a broken, half-finished Character Builder and sparse articles with no compilations.
I thought, "Hmm. Maybe I am just going through the winter blahs." Then I listened to the knowledgeable, clever, entertaining and thought-provoking Jeff Grainer on the Tome Show podcast: he feels just as scared about the future of Fourth edition.
(Actually I do not want "new" stuff: I just want continued support for the good stuff. More feats and powers for neglected classes and races, more adventure paths to epic level, more world stuff for FR, Eberron and DS. Possibly Dragonlance or a Doctor Who tie-in.)
I can't really say for sure whether or not there has been a change. However if there has been it is because WotC is a lot more tight lipped than they used to be. Well before the PHB2 came out we knew the first letters of the names for all the classes(except for one, which I think was changed before release) and the races. They gave us subtle hints occasionally. This forum thrived off of digging through those hints to try and put together what the future was. WotC doesn't do that anymore. There are no clues like what we used to have. So the speculation has just sort of died.
That is because the Dungeons and Dragon product line is about to end or it will change into something totally unrecognizable from as we know it.
Try ignoring troll threads and doom and gloom threads, and well, see if there's any threads left.
I've also seen many people, like myself, who were once rather rabid WotC supporters, turn to doom and gloomers.
Short of Expertise and pre-psi-power psionic classes, i was a fairly fanatical Wotc supporter who did what i could to defend their decisions in every thread. Then came wotc's "re-imagining of 4th' that "didn't change anything' but did, the switch to an online builder missing most the features of the offline one, the diluting of the shadow powersource, cancelled products, and now cards that effectively let players power creep anything they own.
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
WOTC needs to release a good ol', solid, full multi-level playtest! Like the full heroic tier of a class for next year. Something NEW (as in new design space not yet another Wizard or Fighter or EBarbarian) and exciting to spark our hope again. Don't say where its from just dump it on us and let the wild speculation drive the hype on their own!
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
I think the PHB2 class previews were the best, for us and them. You got the first 3 levels of a class, complete with fluff, mechanics, and everything. You could try it out next session, or even run a solo adventure like that one in dragon magazine to see how it played out. It made you want the book to get the rest. I know its what got me hooked on the Invoker.
The massive PHB3 ones were great, but I think it may have given away perhaps too much. If you really like a class, your really waiting on the book for maybe 2-3 powers that werent in the preview. The seeker in my campaign that unfortunately ended, swapped out 1 power for a different one in PHB3, and we were level 20. Before PHB3 was out he was already hoping for Primal Power 2...which never happened.
In both cases they were well in advance.
I agree with you completely though, the new previews really, really sucked. They were also the month before the book came out, so knee-jerkers didnt have much of a chance to recover.
WOTC needs to release a good ol', solid, full multi-level playtest! Like the full heroic tier of a class for next year. Something NEW (as in new design space not yet another Wizard or Fighter or EBarbarian) and exciting to spark our hope again. Don't say where its from just dump it on us and let the wild speculation drive the hype on their own!
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
I think the PHB2 class previews were the best, for us and them. You got the first 3 levels of a class, complete with fluff, mechanics, and everything. You could try it out next session, or even run a solo adventure like that one in dragon magazine to see how it played out. It made you want the book to get the rest. I know its what got me hooked on the Invoker.
The massive PHB3 ones were great, but I think it may have given away perhaps too much. If you really like a class, your really waiting on the book for maybe 2-3 powers that werent in the preview. The seeker in my campaign that unfortunately ended, swapped out 1 power for a different one in PHB3, and we were level 20. Before PHB3 was out he was already hoping for Primal Power 2...which never happened.
In both cases they were well in advance.
I agree with you completely though, the new previews really, really sucked. They were also the month before the book came out, so knee-jerkers didnt have much of a chance to recover.
Knee jerk buzz is never good.
Full heroic tier might be too much... how about we split the diference and say five levels? You can't really get a feeling for a class until you hit the point where you got 2 dailies IMO.
Plus a support feat or two, just to get a better grasp of it.
WOTC needs to release a good ol', solid, full multi-level playtest! Like the full heroic tier of a class for next year. Something NEW (as in new design space not yet another Wizard or Fighter or EBarbarian) and exciting to spark our hope again. Don't say where its from just dump it on us and let the wild speculation drive the hype on their own!
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
I think the PHB2 class previews were the best, for us and them. You got the first 3 levels of a class, complete with fluff, mechanics, and everything. You could try it out next session, or even run a solo adventure like that one in dragon magazine to see how it played out. It made you want the book to get the rest. I know its what got me hooked on the Invoker.
The massive PHB3 ones were great, but I think it may have given away perhaps too much. If you really like a class, your really waiting on the book for maybe 2-3 powers that werent in the preview. The seeker in my campaign that unfortunately ended, swapped out 1 power for a different one in PHB3, and we were level 20. Before PHB3 was out he was already hoping for Primal Power 2...which never happened.
In both cases they were well in advance.
I agree with you completely though, the new previews really, really sucked. They were also the month before the book came out, so knee-jerkers didnt have much of a chance to recover.
Knee jerk buzz is never good.
Full heroic tier might be too much... how about we split the diference and say five levels? You can't really get a feeling for a class until you hit the point where you got 2 dailies IMO.
Plus a support feat or two, just to get a better grasp of it.
How bout they just pay the CharOp boards to tell them how broken something is?
You meen like Paizo who will make it's three new classes available for free download and people will get to comment on them?
Yes, exactly as part of DDi or some other nonsense...
But here's the problem I have, when the edition started, it had lots of things going to for it; crazy new design paradigms, and RnD that wanted to play with it as much as possible - slowly, but albeit still crazy -. And when most of us still pretty much expected some more tweaks and changes and relatively new stuff, even edition upgrades of older settings; Essentials walked in, and kinda threw this community in for a loop.
After that loop, which I guess they (Wotc) didn't quite expect; they became quite tight lipped about anything - and so far as to go pulling some books that people would have thought to reconcile the second great schism of 4e (let's face it, there is a schism, maybe large, maybe small).
This no talking to your public, and pulling things that seemed like good ideas isn't going to win people back. It'll already fan the flame of whatever little fire started with this schism; pushing those who already didn't like it away more; pushing those you liked it into a gloomy frenzy, and pushing those over the fence who were once sitting on it.
Right now, I think we're in the fallout phase of this Schism, and DnD will completely change - hopefully for the better - but really, with the track record of the Digital Side of WotC; that might not just happen (if at all quickly).
I remember when 4e was announced. People said the same thing. 4e split the community in half and WotC lost customers. We now know from a interview Mearls gave that WotC wants these customers back.
This is just a edition change/design change/new business model to get those people back.
Somehow I find it hard to believe that people who split to play Pathfinder instead of 4e will be brought back by Essentials. All Essentials did was split the existing 4e player base again. And that happened mostly because "Essentials style is the way forward". If they had done those 10 products and then returned to good old classic 4e style, there would have been much less schism.
Right now, well, last week we got an excerpt of Dungeon tiles for crying out loud. I like dungeon tiles, a lot, but one can only get so excited about pictures of ice. 'Board games, accessories and digital offerings' just don't get people talking the same way.
Somehow I find it hard to believe that people who split to play Pathfinder instead of 4e will be brought back by Essentials. All Essentials did was split the existing 4e player base again. And that happened mostly because "Essentials style is the way forward". If they had done those 10 products and then returned to good old classic 4e style, there would have been much less schism.
I doubt that anyone who prefers pathfinder will be swayed by essentials.
The only way Wizards of the Coast would retrieve 100% of the players from Pathfinder would be to issue a public mea culpa for releasing 4th edition, then switch back to making 3.5 edition material. Otherwise, the number of "converts" will always be low from one edition to the next only because humankind naturally resists any change whatsoever. People will slowly adapt, and if that isn't fast enough for Hasbro, it may indicate that Hasbro has unrealistic expectations of the average D&D gamer.
Somehow I find it hard to believe that people who split to play Pathfinder instead of 4e will be brought back by Essentials. All Essentials did was split the existing 4e player base again. And that happened mostly because "Essentials style is the way forward". If they had done those 10 products and then returned to good old classic 4e style, there would have been much less schism.
I doubt that anyone who prefers pathfinder will be swayed by essentials.
The only way Wizards of the Coast would retrieve 100% of the players from Pathfinder would be to issue a public mea culpa for releasing 4th edition, then switch back to making 3.5 edition material. Otherwise, the number of "converts" will always be low from one edition to the next only because humankind naturally resists any change whatsoever. People will slowly adapt, and if that isn't fast enough for Hasbro, it may indicate that Hasbro has unrealistic expectations of the average D&D gamer.
Of course, doing that would lose them all the players who prefer 4e.
Though I do agree that Essentials is unlikely to win back many Pathfinder players. I won't say it won't win back ANY, absolutes like that are almost always wrong, but I doubt that it will win back more than a few. Largely because, as 'retro' as Essentials is, I think most who prefer 3.5 and Pathfinder still find it to be too 4e-ish for their taste.
Somehow I find it hard to believe that people who split to play Pathfinder instead of 4e will be brought back by Essentials. All Essentials did was split the existing 4e player base again. And that happened mostly because "Essentials style is the way forward". If they had done those 10 products and then returned to good old classic 4e style, there would have been much less schism.
I doubt that anyone who prefers pathfinder will be swayed by essentials.
The only way Wizards of the Coast would retrieve 100% of the players from Pathfinder would be to issue a public mea culpa for releasing 4th edition, then switch back to making 3.5 edition material. Otherwise, the number of "converts" will always be low from one edition to the next only because humankind naturally resists any change whatsoever. People will slowly adapt, and if that isn't fast enough for Hasbro, it may indicate that Hasbro has unrealistic expectations of the average D&D gamer.
Of course, doing that would lose them all the players who prefer 4e.
Though I do agree that Essentials is unlikely to win back many Pathfinder players. I won't say it won't win back ANY, absolutes like that are almost always wrong, but I doubt that it will win back more than a few. Largely because, as 'retro' as Essentials is, I think most who prefer 3.5 and Pathfinder still find it to be too 4e-ish for their taste.
Indeed, on all your points. Instead of trying to win back the older players, it might help them to feature products and designs that would attract new blood into the tabletop system. The VTT, oddly enough, might be the best way to do this, considering how many people still use chat programs and their analogs. Finding time to game then changes to time to be able to chat on the computer. The younger set wants it if it allows them to have fun with concepts familiar to them.
. . . So, anime inspired D&D adventures/characters?
Yay for anime power source!
You mean Psionic?
It'd be a Ki Power source class!
WOTC needs to release a good ol', solid, full multi-level playtest! Like the full heroic tier of a class for next year. Something NEW (as in new design space not yet another Wizard or Fighter or EBarbarian) and exciting to spark our hope again. Don't say where its from just dump it on us and let the wild speculation drive the hype on their own!
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
I think the PHB2 class previews were the best, for us and them. You got the first 3 levels of a class, complete with fluff, mechanics, and everything. You could try it out next session, or even run a solo adventure like that one in dragon magazine to see how it played out. It made you want the book to get the rest. I know its what got me hooked on the Invoker.
The massive PHB3 ones were great, but I think it may have given away perhaps too much. If you really like a class, your really waiting on the book for maybe 2-3 powers that werent in the preview. The seeker in my campaign that unfortunately ended, swapped out 1 power for a different one in PHB3, and we were level 20. Before PHB3 was out he was already hoping for Primal Power 2...which never happened.
In both cases they were well in advance.
I agree with you completely though, the new previews really, really sucked. They were also the month before the book came out, so knee-jerkers didnt have much of a chance to recover.
Totally agree - there used to be so much excitement for the new books coming out. I LOVED the Playtests and advanced previews.
The books were great till PHB3....as a huge fan of Psionics, I was GREATLY disappointed in the Ardent and Psion. Psion ended up missing KEY ITEMS like telepathy and mind reading. The Ardent ended up being a a re-flavored Warlord. I wanted the Ardent to be an implement using Empath. What a disappointment!
Then Psionic Power came out....I was hoping it would fix those things....instead it didn't and they left out Psi-Crystals AGAIN! Still no Telepathy or Mind Reading. Psionic Power seemed like WOTC didn't even listen to their customers. Everything us Psi-fans wanted, we didn't get....oh wait we did get one thing....Elans which are cool. Besides that, the book was a disappointment.
Then came Dark Sun! Finally another great book! Psionic "cantrips"! YAY! Sorcerer-King Pact! Themes! GREAT STUFF!!! Absolutely love the book!
Then it went all wrong again.....most of the Essential classes were "ho-hum"....basic attacks.....the strict construction of most of the Essential classes were disappointing. Flexibiility completely gone.
Now it seems like there is nothing to look forward to but the Heroes of Shadows which sounds great....but then it got delayed....
Dragon had reached an all time low.....the new CB is worthless to me since it doesn't allow House Rules....I don't care about BOARD GAMES! I don't want POG TOKENS!
The previews now are crap. There are no more playtests.
I am really hoping there will be great announcements this weekend at the Con as it is the only thing holding a sliver of hope for me. I have been playing D&D since the original AD&D 1st edition and this really feels like the darkest time for the game.
So hard NOT to feel the doom and gloom....
Personally, I think the more recent doom and gloom originates from the fear many of us are currently feeling. The fear that WotC has ruined 4E. I think I would have prefered WotC to have made the Essentials 4.5 so that 4E proper could live. Not that I believe 4E is ruined, but a sudden shift in direction mid edition is hard to reconcile. I think that future releases will decide the fate of 4E, and possibly the future of D&D. I would consider alot of this doom and gloom to be venting, and should be taken as just that.
WOTC needs to release a good ol', solid, full multi-level playtest! Like the full heroic tier of a class for next year. Something NEW (as in new design space not yet another Wizard or Fighter or EBarbarian) and exciting to spark our hope again. Don't say where its from just dump it on us and let the wild speculation drive the hype on their own!
None of those pansy Essential style previews that show half a level 1 build for a class we ALREADY have but with more bland fluff and leaves us with more unanswered questions and rage than good buzz.
Learn2marketing dangit!
I think the PHB2 class previews were the best, for us and them. You got the first 3 levels of a class, complete with fluff, mechanics, and everything. You could try it out next session, or even run a solo adventure like that one in dragon magazine to see how it played out. It made you want the book to get the rest. I know its what got me hooked on the Invoker.
The massive PHB3 ones were great, but I think it may have given away perhaps too much. If you really like a class, your really waiting on the book for maybe 2-3 powers that werent in the preview. The seeker in my campaign that unfortunately ended, swapped out 1 power for a different one in PHB3, and we were level 20. Before PHB3 was out he was already hoping for Primal Power 2...which never happened.
In both cases they were well in advance.
I agree with you completely though, the new previews really, really sucked. They were also the month before the book came out, so knee-jerkers didnt have much of a chance to recover.
Totally agree - there used to be so much excitement for the new books coming out. I LOVED the Playtests and advanced previews.
The books were great till PHB3....as a huge fan of Psionics, I was GREATLY disappointed in the Ardent and Psion. Psion ended up missing KEY ITEMS like telepathy and mind reading. The Ardent ended up being a a re-flavored Warlord. I wanted the Ardent to be an implement using Empath. What a disappointment!
Then Psionic Power came out....I was hoping it would fix those things....instead it didn't and they left out Psi-Crystals AGAIN! Still no Telepathy or Mind Reading. Psionic Power seemed like WOTC didn't even listen to their customers. Everything us Psi-fans wanted, we didn't get....oh wait we did get one thing....Elans which are cool. Besides that, the book was a disappointment.
Largely agree with this. However, the Shaper Psion pretty much got "make psi-crystal" as an encounter power via the 'Conciousness Fragment" power. You could also easily refluff its summons into crystaline constructs.
The Psion really should have had better psionic cantrips like telepathy and basic mind reading instead of the silly 'encounter' bursts that almost anyone in DS can have for FREE.
Yeah the Ardent was fairly dissapointing. I would have expected an implement based Empath as well, it made sense.
Having one build weapon the other implement would have been okay too. WoTC isnt too great at pleasing more than 1 group at once though.
I think psi-power was a kind of wasted opportunity, especially with power books seemingly dead. I mean, most the new builds didn't go anywhere, the monk got a weapon build that was still implement powers, the psion got the mandatory summoner build that every controller gets in an power book, and the b-mind and ardent just got more of the same really.
Martial power gave us 2 very interesting new mechanics of fighters, a mace using rogue and a beastmaster ranger(as much as the last 2 builds have issues). Warlord didn't get too much new, but it got a whole ranged build in MP2. MP2 did a very amazing job in general, giving us a grappler fighter, a bowlord, interesting new ranger builds, and a ranged rogue. Martial always gets all the cool stuff...well until essentials atleast.
Divine got domains, and the pacivist cleric, some actual paladin builds, a more reliable avenger, and an emo invoker that no one ever plays.
Primal power gave us a dual-wielding barbarian, and one who shouts so loud it deals people damage, some kinda not-new warden builds, but they had some nice visual differences, a bird with lazy powers for the shaman, and a druid that could turn into a swarm (and the mandatory summoner build every controller gets).
Arcane power gave us a bow bard, a meh swordmage, some interesting sorceror bloodlines, a very different sort of warlock, and alot of wizard tricks.
I think part of the problem may have been psi-power was rushed out before essentials...or perhaps wotc just didnt know what to do with the powersource.
Before someone accuses me of hating psionic power and saying my opinion is wrong. I am playing a shaper psion in my new campaign and loving it. I've also enjoyed playing my crazy dwarven battlemind, who went around telling everyone he was awesome (hey its what all the fluff says).
Somehow I find it hard to believe that people who split to play Pathfinder instead of 4e will be brought back by Essentials. All Essentials did was split the existing 4e player base again. And that happened mostly because "Essentials style is the way forward". If they had done those 10 products and then returned to good old classic 4e style, there would have been much less schism.
I doubt that anyone who prefers pathfinder will be swayed by essentials.
Well, I prefer Pathfinder but I have three boxes here by my desk with "Essentials" on them--Dungeon Tiles Master Set: The Dungeon, The City & The Wilderness.
Of course those are "Essentials" only in name, as they contain no rules or indeed anything edition specific.
Yeah the Ardent was fairly dissapointing. I would have expected an implement based Empath as well, it made sense.
Having one build weapon the other implement would have been okay too. WoTC isnt too great at pleasing more than 1 group at once though.
I think psi-power was a kind of wasted opportunity, especially with power books seemingly dead. I mean, most the new builds didn't go anywhere, the monk got a weapon build that was still implement powers, the psion got the mandatory summoner build that every controller gets in an power book, and the b-mind and ardent just got more of the same really.
I think part of the problem may have been psi-power was rushed out before essentials...or perhaps wotc just didnt know what to do with the powersource.
Before someone accuses me of hating psionic power and saying my opinion is wrong. I am playing a shaper psion in my new campaign and loving it. I've also enjoyed playing my crazy dwarven battlemind, who went around telling everyone he was awesome (hey its what all the fluff says).
The new Battlemind stuff in Dark Sun was decent.
Just so disappointed there was no Precognition, no telepathy, no life scanning, no mental linking and no mind reading for the psion.....those are such common themes for telepaths.
While some of the Essential classes are cool like the Executioner assassin, others suffered with poor feat support like the Hexblade who got cut out of the warlock feats.
In my group, no one wanted to play any of the Essentials classes.
People have been asking for another Shadow based class but it doesn't look like we will get that either. The shadow based Assassin was a major let down.
Dragon magazine is really going to have to be spectacular next month or the mood is just going to continue to go down. Right now you have to wait till the last day of each month to get the half way decent "major" articles.
Anyone feel like brewing up the Dragonball Warrior class, with Spirit Bomb Daily? ;)
It'd be a Ki Power source class!
Well, if you want to spend the whole encounter powering it up that's fine. Just imagine the embarrasment when you miss with it though...
WotC's CCG came in the Power Cards and Minis. We stopped cutting out our power cards and now jut flip through pages of them, and I don't know anyone who bought the decks of powers - and why would you with all the updates and new powers getting released? I liked the plastic minis, but you had to see the closed box trick from a mile away. It might have worke if the commons were... common monsters like scrub goblins, orcs, kobolds, skeletons and zombies (can't have enough skeleton and zombies) but who wants to collect 20+ dire badgers.
Hasbro does make board games, and a friend got the Ravenloft one and it was full of cards and minis. I don't know if everyone gets The Hub channel - Hasbro has it's own television network, but I would be a lot cooler with "The Parent Company" if I saw a new D&D cartoon on it like the new GI Joe and Transformers - okay, not like the GI Joe one.
IMO, D&D is a tabletop funy-dice and character sheet game. Trying to make it something else will fail. MtG is a great CCG, Warhammer sounds like a better mini game and Hasbro produces board game versions of every licence available. The VTT is a joke when you realize MMOs are the same thing, only a gazillion times better. We've Skyped players away on business trips, technology has moved so far past VTT when someone playing text based MUDs thought they would be the coolest thing, evah!
D&D is old scool. Give me a table full of friends, some funny dice and a character sheet. Want to keep up with the times, put the character sheet online - not a downloadable software beast and not some Silvelight piece of... just a web site I can get to on my phone, tablet or laptop. I'll still buy the books if you don't errata them. D&D is a licence, so go ahead and make D&D lunchboxes and knock yourself out with a D&D version of Life board game (that's not the worst idea I ever had) but just leave my tabletop RPG a tabletop RPG.
I'm still holding out for the Inquisitor class.
The tone has changed...people are really and truely getting tired of WOTC's shenanigins and exploring other options and deciding if they can continue to support the WOTCs.
4e and essentials was an edition shift in almost every single way in many peoples opinion; call it a new design philosphy if you want but many will disagree (we all know you may or may not disagree with this no need to latch onto this and thread jack). That re-enforces people's questioning.
WOTC's most successful products are CCG's and the newest game world has built that into the systema and suddenly one of the only products to come out as advertised and on time is a CCG element to add to DnD. That has me really worried about what the next big "design philosophy" could be. The world's biggest board game company also owns WOTC and suddenly WOTC is putting out board games. That has me worried too. I'm sure others share these 2 worries and these also re-enforce people's questioning.
I will say that this is probably the underlying cause of what is freaking so many people out. They are worried that the game won't have any more supplements to build off of. That happend when Modern was suspected of being cancelled (and boy was that cancelled with the terror of a thousand correct predictions). the Star wars RCR (2e for those not in the know) wasn't "cancelled" but the product release trailed off into oblivion. SAGA was officially cancelled, but the writing was on the wall about 2 books before the announcement, and man was there a doom and gloom sense about the game on the boards. People are worried that D&D will evolve into a simple board/table game. I mean, it came from a table game...
[editorial]
In the end, it all depends on individuals. It never fails to make me laugh. Lord when they revealed 4e, it was the end of role playing in D&D. Since then, I stopped giving names to characters at all. Not to mention that giving fighters daily powers made as much sense as greedo getting a shot off (a popular opinion on the forums circa 4e release).
Then WotC just wanted your money, making a book every month in a shallow attempt to not make the game more complete, but to steal our hard won monies from our ever impoverished pockets.
Then essentials came out, which in order to play D&D we all had to buy. If you didn't buy it your old books would self destruct. And then they took daily powers away from fighters and everyone said, "SAY WHAT?!?!?! now fighters can only be played by stupid people who can't grasp daily powers!!"...
And now there aren't enough products coming out, so all those people who play 168 hours of D&D and have exhausted the millions of combinations of character and those limitted and linear adventures that are impossible to replicate/invent on your own are screwed.
In retrospect, WotC might get sucked into a black hole of internet critisism on their own boards and cause a temporal fault that will cause the 1st edition of magic to fail, causing the company to go bankrupt, and we wouldn't/won't even be here. [/editorial]
D&D is a licence, so go ahead and make D&D lunchboxes and knock yourself out with a D&D version of Life board game (that's not the worst idea I ever had) but just leave my tabletop RPG a tabletop RPG.
What about Dark sun Monopoly?
Or D&D Clue... "it was the kobold with the short sword in the nentir valley!!!"
"you looked at the confidential file..."
"you forget. I have clairvoyance spells."
::sheds a single sad tear for Shadow::
You know, for some of us it isn't about the gross amount of options available, but rather what specific options did and what options did not make it into the game before the D&D department at WotC went into this total meltdown.
::sheds a single sad tear for Shadow::
The book's not even out yet.
Don't cry over soon to be spilt milk.
You know, for some of us it isn't about the gross amount of options available, but rather what specific options did and what options did not make it into the game before the D&D department at WotC went into this total meltdown.
::sheds a single sad tear for Shadow::
The book's not even out yet.
Don't cry over soon to be spilt milk.
The unfortunate truth is that those of us who wanted singular power source shadow classes will not get them in pre-E format, if at all. Everything they have previewed mechanically has shown a lack of interest in doing anything more than making shadow a rider on other classes.
You know, for some of us it isn't about the gross amount of options available, but rather what specific options did and what options did not make it into the game before the D&D department at WotC went into this total meltdown.
::sheds a single sad tear for Shadow::
Quoted for truth. (Even though I dislike evil or shadowy anti-heroics.)
Rest in peace Arcane Power II (and any help for the Artificer), Primal Power II (especially any help for the Seeker), Dungeon Master's Guide II (and epic stuff), Player's Handbook IV (and themes and support for the disfavoured races such as Changeling and Shadar Kai).
You know, for some of us it isn't about the gross amount of options available, but rather what specific options did and what options did not make it into the game before the D&D department at WotC went into this total meltdown.
::sheds a single sad tear for Shadow::
Quoted for truth. (Even though I dislike evil or shadowy anti-heroics.)
Rest in peace Arcane Power II (and any help for the Artificer), Primal Power II (especially any help for the Seeker), Dungeon Master's Guide II (and epic stuff), Player's Handbook IV (and themes and support for the disfavoured races such as Changeling and Shadar Kai).
Oh they could create a Arcane Empowerment or Primal Empowerment book .... or Epic DMing book names are marketing you know content is king.