First off, let me say, in some ways, this is not a bad thing.
3.5 certainly addressed some problems with 3.0 with a positive end result.
4.0 was such a new and divergent game, of course there were going to be some issues. The pending release of a 4.x was probably planned in the product life cycle years ago.
According to the rumor mill, the Compendium would have an "Essentials Mode" and a "Core Mode"
I think this is a BAD IDEA and will only serve to create many versioning problems and rules lawyering which 4E has done a good job averting.
Either way, by pushing a new version there will be an inevitable fragmenting of the audience. I just hope the damage is minimal.
I've never heared of this 'Essential Mode' and 'Core Mode' rumour.
Wotc already has said that these books do not invalidate what we already use.
The rules for Essentials will be as much as a new version as the PH2 and PH3 printed errata is a new version. The classes will be as much a new version as the powers series is a new version.
I haven't heard of these "Modes" either, but can't you already filter Compendium results by book or Dragon or whatnot? All it would be is a filter that includes all the books in the Essentials line instead of each book seperately.
According to the rumor mill, the Compendium would have an "Essentials Mode" and a "Core Mode"I think this is a BAD IDEA and will only serve to create many versioning problems and rules lawyering which 4E has done a good job averting.
While I don't even know if this rumor is remotely true, I could very well see them making an "Essentials Mode" on the character builder that specifically excluded any material that didn't appear in the Essentials line (which is supposed to focus on low levels and a few core races, classes, feats, etc.). The material that would appear in Essentials Mode would be identical to the way it would appear in Core Mode, it just wouldn't flood you with all the options from so many books and DDI articles. So for example, both Essentials and Core modes would show "Power Attack" as an available feat, and both entries for the feat would be identical. Essentials, on the other hand, wouldn't show feats like "Skill Domain" or "Roll With It," you'd have to be in Core mode to have all options made available.
I'm basing the speculation on my recent experience in trying to introduce my wife to D&D. I figured showing her the character builder would make things a lot easier, but it actually had the opposite effect - she took one look at the available feat list and was completely overwhelmed, and promptly lost any interest in trying to learn anything more. She wanted to like D&D, but she just doesn't have the free time to sort through any of that, and neither of us saw much point in having me pick stuff out for her.
I've been gaming for almost two decades, so I'm used to the idea of wading through endless options before finding what I want. Heck, it's part of the fun for me. But to somebody just starting out with gaming, flooding them with options makes it seem like a chore more than fun. I've also heard a number of more veteran players have the same complaint.
Granted, that last point suggests how it could still create a certain divide in D&D groups - those who use "Essentials Only" and those allow everything in "Core." (true, DMs are free to tweak things already, and there are options in the character builder for excluding whatever source material you like, but that doesn't help new DMs very much). If so, so be it. We at least won't be disagreeing on the basic rules
Sales slip after the initial core launches. By splitting classic archtypal classes over 2-3 books, 4e has managed to mitigate this. But PHB4 will attract fewer people and sales on the accessory products will begin to decline.
This is when they started working on 3.5 eighteen months after the launch of 3.0 and 4e two years after the launch of 3.5.
We're two years into 4e, right about the halfway point. They have enough power source, dragon types, and planes for two more years of solid books. That's a long time to have sagging sales.
Enter D&D Essentials. They're not a reprint of the core books, but likely contain many of the revisions and updates. They're hyped at being designed to bring new players into the game. A revamped version of the Starter Set.
What they want is for current players to pick them up for their characters AND people to gift them to young family as cheap gifts AND attract new players.
It buoys up the line in the midpoint and hopefully attracts more sales to the main books.
Hopefully, it keeps 4e going a little longer before the inevitable 5e.
You are totally right and completely wrong.
Sales slip after the initial core launches. By splitting classic archtypal classes over 2-3 books, 4e has managed to mitigate this. But PHB4 will attract fewer people and sales on the accessory products will begin to decline.
This is when they started working on 3.5 eighteen months after the launch of 3.0 and 4e two years after the launch of 3.5.
We're two years into 4e, right about the halfway point. They have enough power source, dragon types, and planes for two more years of solid books. That's a long time to have sagging sales.
Enter D&D Essentials. They're not a reprint of the core books, but likely contain many of the revisions and updates. They're hyped at being designed to bring new players into the game. A revamped version of the Starter Set.
What they want is for current players to pick them up for their characters AND people to gift them to young family as cheap gifts AND attract new players.
It buoys up the line in the midpoint and hopefully attracts more sales to the main books.
Hopefully, it keeps 4e going a little longer before the inevitable 5e.
Yes. Anything to prevent me from hearing more chutzpah from Pathfinder folks about how "4e is failing".
Yes. Anything to prevent me from hearing more chutzpah from Pathfinder folks about how "4e is failing".
Give 'em the big ol' raspberry, preferably accompanied by a salute with the number of fingers of your choice (depending on which side of the pond you occupy).
I'm willing to bet that 4E is selling a hell of a lot more books than Pathfinder. One local game store stocks and sells a bunch of 4E product, but only bothers to keep an extra copy or two of Pathfinder on the shelf. The other local game store doesn't even carry Pathfinder. They have determined that D&D is the only role playing game that warrants the investment, so they keep that stocked and let the rest fall on the wayside.
The folks spewing bile at 4E from the Pathfinder camp are just trying to scare folks that like 4E into buying Pathfinder to shore up their own sales.
And when it comes to role playing... it shouldn't matter what version you use because in that regard the only limit is your imagination.
I have truely enjoyed playing 4E.
Anything to prevent me from hearing more chutzpah from Pathfinder folks about how "4e is failing".
It isn't failing. Sure, older books trail off in sales, but new books sell well. For example, on Amazon the PHB3 is ranked #44 in all books, mostly because it's so new, but it's obviously selling well.
The Pathfinder RPGA is #3,758 and is 7 months old. PHB2 which is a year old is #5,693. Will Pathfinder be high or lower in another 5 months? Who knows. Pathfinder also just basically has 2 books, the core book and the bestiary. Other than that they have lots of little setting booklets and their adventures and those don't sell nearly as well.
4e is doing just fine.
Bluewyrm
MalakLightfoot
This topic is not about anything failing. It is about how to keep the rules up to date. How to make errata accessible.
4E is a success.
So isn't ED&D a good idea?
So isn't the Compdium a good idea?
He's going to try and follow up, but I personally think that rumor is nothing but people speculating the worst.
Similarly - my feelings on the D&D Essentials line pretty much echos what others have posted thus far. It isn't a re-tooling of what's come so far, though I do recall hearing at DDXP that Rules Updates that we've seen so far would be included.
However, these are really designed to be nice, easy-to-use paperbacks, with some new character creation content to help attract new players. The goal of the Essentials line is to help players who are new to RPGs and/or D&D.
When these players walk into their FLGS (or if they're really unlucky - their local big book store) and see THREE player's handbooks (to say nothing of AVs, Powers books, etc) - it can be confusing for them to know how/where to start.
Ideally, with the Essentials line, players, then DMs will have an easy-to-understand entry system into our hobby.
Or at least, such was the impression I got at the product seminar from DDXP.
I firmly believe that the "Essentials" products are absolutely worthless.
If indeed these products were intended for new players, then why are they being released 2 years after the system's launch?
Wizards of the Coast has already said that they would not interfere nor contradict with the material in the existing books. Therefore, they are simply re-releasing the same information in smaller bite sized chunks.
What's worse is that this "essential" line dominates the latter part of the year, meaning that nothing will be released for the players that are not new to the game. So great, they re-print the existing material because I suppose Wizards of the Coast suddenly has the idea that the customers are now too stupid to read and comprehend the books we have already bought?
I very much enjoy playing 4th edition, but I would really like to know where the hell is the order and logic to this mode of thinking??? I mean seriously - who in the hell in their right mind would make a gaming system, and 2 years into it re-release the same rules all over again AND THINK WE WOULD NOT NOTICE!!!!
Has the entire design staff simply run out of ideas?
End of...oh and one more thing I WANT MY DAMN NECROMANCER (please and thank you
)End of Rant.
First of all, everything I am about to say is strictly my opinion. I am entitled to that...
Indeed. And I am in turn entitled to my opinion that your opinion is bupkis ;)
I firmly believe that the "Essentials" products are absolutely worthless.
If indeed these products were intended for new players, then why are they being released 2 years after the system's launch?
Because they've learned a thing or two in the intervening time about how to present 4e in a way that is accessible to new players?
The long-term survival of any good product includes the ability to attract new costumers as well as retaining the old ones. 4e's main strength is that it's more accessible for new players than previous editions, may as well play up that strength even more when games like Pathfinder are grabbing the attention of the established player base.
What's worse is that this "essential" line dominates the latter part of the year, meaning that nothing will be released for the players that are not new to the game. So great, they re-print the existing material because I suppose Wizards of the Coast suddenly has the idea that the customers are now too stupid to read and comprehend the books we have already bought?
...
Has the entire design staff simply run out of ideas?
And the almost daily content updates from DDI mean nothing? Add in AP 2, DP 2, PsiP and Dark Sun all on the horizon, saying that the design staff has somehow "run out of ideas" is just insulting.
Essentials is not just re-printed old-stuff. "Not invalidating" means it's not a version update. You won't have to re-learn the specifics of combat or anything like that. However it is entirely possible to "not invalidate" what came before while presenting something new. This is achieved quite simply by providing brand spanking new content. It doesn't replace, it compliments what we already have.
The Monster Vault is a nice boxed set of classic DnD monsters like goblins, drow, and orcs. However, these goblins, drow, and orcs are going to be unique to the Monster Vault. Like how the Drow Stingblade was a new drow written up in Eberron Campaign Setting, while the Drow Hunter was one of the 4e originals in Monster Manual 1.
See? Not invalidating what came before and entirely new.
The two "Heroes of..." Essentials books are going to have new builds for several core classes. These are new builds. That is definately something old players will want. I know I'm looking forward to the new paladin build. So think of the "Heroes of ..." books as trade paperback Power books, but not focusing on any one power source. It'll have about the same sort of content.
Also in the Essentials line are some new adventures. A couple stand-alone, and a couple in the Red Box. I don't see what's indicative of "running out of ideas" about new adventures.
Outside of the Monster Vault, Red Box, Essentials adventures, and the "Heroes of..." books, the Essentials line is comprised of game aids, like dice and dungeon tiles. (Dungeon Tiles that will never go out of print. That's worth throwing a parade for on its own.) The Rules Compendium is the biggest offender in the "reprinting old stuff" category, but given the utility and usefulness of the 3.5 Rules Compendium, I'll say it's worth it for people that want an easy referrence. Otherwise people will stick to their three-book stack of core rules. Not a big deal either way.
Oh yeah, all of that brand new stuff in the Essentials line, plus new DDi content.
So can we please stop waving our pitchforks at the Essentials line? A lot of you are jumping to conclusions about it when the answers to your fears were already belayed the moment they were announced. You just took up arms too fast to see them.
So can we please stop waving our pitchforks at the Essentials line? A lot of you are jumping to conclusions about it when the answers to your fears were already belayed the moment they were announced. You just took up arms too fast to see them.
This applies to so many things in life.
Old Red Box D&D 
Essentials SeriesI just wanted to make a point with some visual aids to show. I am sure this has been pointed out before but Essential series is for only 1-5 players. It is the basic game as said before. Just a money making scheme and intro for new players. It is not 4.5.
Old Red Box D&D Essentials Series
So it's AD&D?
No, it's 4e repacked to be easier to understand for new players. It's as much a "money making scheme" as any product put forth by a company to be purchased by consumers. It's called capitalism.
And that repackaging includes a brand-new adventure, and new solo adventure that helps newbies determine what character they want to play. (One example given for determining alignment was "You see a caravan being attacked by goblins. What do you do?" And then the player's character's alignment is determined by their answer. It's like a life-path generator, but in adventure format.) It includes dungeon tiles and monster tokens. Etc. etc.
So again. 4e. Doesn't change anything. Just adds. Nothing but good can come of it.
I just wanted to make a point with some visual aids to show. I am sure this has been pointed out before but Essential series is for only 1-5 players. It is the basic game as said before. Just a money making scheme and intro for new players. It is not 4.5.
Old Red Box D&D Essentials Series
It's 4.1.
Question where'd you get the idea that it is only for 1-5 players? How would they limit it?
and you have the opinion to completely disagree and bypass it.
Show
with out alot more info, I think the essential ideas are trash, but this is my initial opinion.
the following is an opinion which I am entitled too.
and you have the opinion to completely disagree and bypass it.Showwith out alot more info, I think the essential ideas are trash, but this is my initial opinion.
the following is an opinion which I am entitled too.
and you have the opinion to completely disagree and bypass it.Showwith out alot more info, I think the essential ideas are trash, but this is my initial opinion.
the following is an opinion which I am entitled too.
and you have the opinion to completely disagree and bypass it.Showwith out alot more info, I think the essential ideas are trash, but this is my initial opinion.
But who doesn't use builds, powers, and feats to fight monsters in adventures? I don't see how the promise of any of those can be seen as "trash".
Is it just because they're not going to be hardcover?
...Is it because the format will be easier to read?
It's not like they're making a 4.5 or 4.1 or any "next version" of 4e, which WOULD invalidate what came before, which is exactly what they said they weren't going to do.
All the Essentials line is is brand new content for players and DMs, with an easier-to-justify price point and easier-to-understand format for new players.
But it's still brand new content for the same edition we're all already playing. A brand new Warlock pact, new fighter, wizard, rogue, paladin builds, etc. New versions of fan-favorite monsters (More types of drow to round out your underdark adventure. More types of goblins to fill-in your tribe of raiders, more types of orcs to add spice to the hoard.)
All of which is compatable with what we're playing because it's new content for the edition we're playing.
I don't get all the Essentials hate. Not one bit.
On the other hand, I have heard some current gamers wish there were "easy button" versions of the classes for their friends who are really casual and just want to point and click with an at-will and not deal with encounters/dailies.
"No! They should start the way I did!"
I'm not sure if this is jealousy or what, but some people are offended by the thought that people might start with a book that isn't the PH.
Money Grab.
But then, anything published past the first three books is a money grab.
AD&D vs BECMI all over again.
While an understandable fear, completely unfounded if you've done enough research.
Maybe we need some sort of "Essential Essentials" thread that lists everything we've found out about the Essentials line. Dig up the D&D XP information, the corrections, and so on.
You better watch out! WoTC is out to getchu money!
Money Grab.
But then, anything published past the first three books is a money grab.
The first three books were also a "money grab".
Wizards wouldn't be a very successful company if it didn't make money, after all.
I cannot wait for the dungeon tiles, I've always wanted to get more city tiles so i could make sprawling cityscape and intricately detailed slums, city streets and sewer dungeons. one set of streets of shadows was just never enough!!! so when i get dungeon tiles master set: the city i'll have essentially three sets. not to mention i have no forest tiles so the wilderness set will be a must buy for me too.
Edit: i went to the product catalogue and took another look at the description of the "heroes of" books and noticed something
Heroes of fallen lands
features new builds for: clerics, fighters, rangers, rogues, and wizards
Heroes of forgotten kingdoms
features new builds for: clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and warlocks
The cleric is doubly essential? I know there isn't much use griping about it but I'd rather another leader class be featured in the second book it doesn't seem fair that the cleric be featured twice. why not the bard, shaman or warlord? the bard is at least as equally iconic as the cleric. oh well hopefully the new builds will lend something new to the class and I'm sure in time i'll come to accept both new builds as pretty awesome.
I for one will be interested in the "heroes of" series becuase it was said earlier itll be like a powersource book that doesnt focus on just one source. also im interested to see if the races featured in these books get the PHB3 optional ability bonus treatment like everyone is saying they might.
I cannot wait for the dungeon tiles, I've always wanted to get more city tiles so i could make sprawling cityscape and intricately detailed slums, city streets and sewer dungeons. one set of streets of shadows was just never enough!!! so when i get dungeon tiles master set: the city i'll have essentially three sets. not to mention i have no forest tiles so the wilderness set will be a must buy for me too.
Edit: i went to the product catalogue and took another look at the description of the "heroes of" books and noticed something
Heroes of fallen lands
features new builds for: clerics, fighters, rangers, rogues, and wizards
Heroes of forgotten kingdoms
features new builds for: clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and warlocks
The cleric is doubly essential? I know there isn't much use griping about it but I'd rather another leader class be featured in the second book it doesn't seem fair that the cleric be featured twice. why not the bard, shaman or warlord? the bard is at least as equally iconic as the cleric. oh well hopefully the new builds will lend something new to the class and I'm sure in time i'll come to accept both new builds as pretty awesome.
Ranger bolding mine.
Rangers are doubly essential, as are fighters, rogues and wizards. Clerics are triply essential.
Year 1 - Release initial materials.
Year 2 - Release materials for veteran players to have plenty of options to keep them busy.
Year 3 - Release materials to help bring in new players.
Marandahir I dont get what youre saying about fighters, rouges and wizards also being double and clerics being triple unless youre aware of a third "heros of" that isnt shown on the product catalog, they are only featured in fallen lands. obviously there will be more to come but i dont really understand what youre getting at?
whoa i totally missed the ranger double-ness! I cant believe i didnt catch that. heres hoping one of those builds is a ranged beastmaster.
Marandahir I dont get what youre saying about fighters, rouges and wizards also being double and clerics being triple unless youre aware of a third "heros of" that isnt shown on the product catalog, they are only featured in fallen lands. obviously there will be more to come but i dont really understand what youre getting at?
I meant that The Red Box features Fighters, Rogues, Clerics, and Wizards. Both expansions to it include the Cleric and the Ranger, and the first expansion included options for all the other classes from the Red Box as well, which means the Ranger get's double treatment, as do Fighters, Rogues, and Wizards, and the Cleric gets triple treatement.
Of course, the Red Box doesn't include beyond the first few levels; still…
I am very happy to read that the essential line will feature new builds, but where did you found it out?
any link/seminar/post/whatever?
very interested in a simple wizard build that so far is the toughtest class in the essential line (with the daily/book thing)
a quick question
I am very happy to read that the essential line will feature new builds, but where did you found it out?
any link/seminar/post/whatever?
very interested in a simple wizard build that so far is the toughtest class in the essential line (with the daily/book thing)
www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
This essential player product for the 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game presents exciting new builds for the most iconic classes: the cleric, the fighter, the ranger, the rogue, and the wizard.
Old Red Box D&D Essentials Series
WotC uses Nostalgia! It's super effective!
I bet that starter set is going to sell a lot of copies on nostalgia alone.
I am very happy to read that the essential line will feature new builds, but where did you found it out?
www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...This essential player product for the 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game presents exciting new builds for the most iconic classes: the cleric, the fighter, the ranger, the rogue, and the wizard.
well.... since this is an expansion of the red box I thought it means "new builds for people that own only the red box"
I don't think they are going for new builds for people who got the full library of books (for them there are other reason to buy the essential line, like the token, the portability, the easy to introduce game and so on), if there were the intention to put into the essential line new (as in "never seen before" build) they would have put them in the red box
I think of the essential line as a "closed" line of product and so the reference into the product page are to this "closed" world
as for which build I expect to find in the red box:
Devoted Cleric (wis 18, str 14)
Guardian Fighter (str 18, cos 14)
Trickster Rogue (dex 18, cha 14)
Control Wizard (int 18, cos 13, wis 13) I would go for a staff wizard with the extend area feat
since this are going to strengthen the respective roles of the character
well.... since this is an expansion of the red box I thought it means "new builds for people that own only the red box"
I don't think they are going for new builds for people who got the full library of books (for them there are other reason to buy the essential line, like the token, the portability, the easy to introduce game and so on), if there were the intention to put into the essential line new (as in "never seen before" build) they would have put them in the red box
I think of the essential line as a "closed" line of product and so the reference into the product page are to this "closed" world
as for which build I expect to find in the red box:
Devoted Cleric (wis 18, str 14)
Guardian Fighter (str 18, cos 14)
Trickster Rogue (dex 18, cha 14)
Control Wizard (int 18, cos 13, wis 13) I would go for a staff wizard with the extend area feat
since this are going to strengthen the respective roles of the character
Red Box only goes up to....3rd level? The Heroes of... books include new paragon paths and epic destinies, stuff well beyond the level limit present in the red box. The new builds in the essentials books are there to give a reason for existing players to buy the books.
Red Box only goes up to....3rd level? The Heroes of... books include new paragon paths and epic destinies, stuff well beyond the level limit present in the red box. The new builds in the essentials books are there to give a reason for existing players to buy the books.
I would like some official wording on this
to have new builds means even more works on this project.......
I would like some official wording on this
to have new builds means even more works on this project.......
Uh let's see, closest to official word on this that I can find is the Critical Hits article reporting on the Essentials announcement.
They did state that the builds for the classes would be all new, and most of the feats except for some of the very essentials would be new as well, so they are still introducing new elements to the game through these products.
Uh let's see, closest to official word on this that I can find is the Critical Hits article reporting on the Essentials announcement.They did state that the builds for the classes would be all new, and most of the feats except for some of the very essentials would be new as well, so they are still introducing new elements to the game through these products.
thank you very much... I forgot this one
thank you
better yet
Do you know what the Essentials books are? An experiment.
Wizards can't see the future. They don't know how well any given book or product will sell. As others have said, the Essentials line is an attempt to keep the 'mid-section' of the current edition from experiencing the inevitable sales slump. Will it work? Maybe. Maybe not. If it doesn't, you can expect to see a series of "Ultimate" books or somesuch. Or maybe something else entirely.
Right now, they're trying an experiment to see if smaller, lower-cost TPBs will sell faster than bigger, thicker, hardcover books. Previous experiments have included seeing if people will buy sequels to rulebooks (PHB2, DMG2) and whether or not you can release one campaign setting per year. Future experiments may well include pop-up books and a line of scratch-n-sniff stickers. Who knows.
IEssentials is not 4.5e. Is it a plot to part you from your hard-earned cash? Yes, but that is also the definition of capitalism. As a business, Wizards has to constantly try new formats and products to see what works. The good news is that you, as the customer, get to vote with your wallet. And they will listen to your vote.
I love how people see a conspiracy in every new product released by Wizards.
Do you know what the Essentials books are? An experiment.
you are absolutely right
I'll add that it's an experiment
a) to reach different shops (principally the big stores and chains like Toy'r'us and similar), and this is supported also by the D&D boardgames
b) to reach new people (they said it) lapsed player in their mid 40 that want to get back in the game with no much fuss, new player that just want to give it a try, young ones that will get it as a gift and so on
c) to have a foothold in shops everywhere whit the "bare bones" game, a shop that want to support D&D will have many new option
c.1) red box
c.2) red box + other essential boxes
c.3) full essential line
c.4) one of the above + a selection of core books
IEssentials is not 4.5e. Is it a plot to part you from your hard-earned cash? Yes, but that is also the definition of capitalism. As a business, Wizards has to constantly try new formats and products to see what works. The good news is that you, as the customer, get to vote with your wallet. And they will listen to your vote.
"IEssentials [sic] is not 4.5e." I agree. If they have added the errata and the rules changes it will probable only be 4.1e.
Actually, public opinion can also be part of capitalism. You don't really think that people MUST ONLY vote with their money. Do you?
I think Essentials line is good.
I'm thinking about getting the Creature Catalogue for use with Gamma World.
Oops! I mean the Monster Vault
I'm thinking about getting the Creature Catalogue for use with Gamma World.
Oops! I mean the Monster Vault
owlbear... sooo sweet
I love how people see a conspiracy in every new product released by Wizards.
Not a very well known fact: Remember 9/11. Yup, no wotc staff turned up for work that day....
or since... judging 4e in it's current state...
That is the dumbest thing I have heard in sometime. D&D while different is in a very good place now, wizards seems to have learned from their mistakes of the 3rd edition and has taken what did work well and is using that to. I for one wish people would calm down about the essential line as it is to get new players in the game not to replace any of the current materials.
I basicly agree.
Except if they include erratta and rule changes.
But I think I've mentioned that. So, never mind.
4.1
Except if they include erratta and rule changes.
But I think I've mentioned that. So, never mind.
4.1
what would be different from using the errata and having them printend in the new books?
wouldn't make sense to print a book with a big link to the errata page....
what would be different from using the errata and having them printend in the new books?
wouldn't make sense to print a book with a big link to the errata page....
It makes a lot of sense to print the errata in the essentials books. Some might even call it common sense. I'd even go so far as to say that customers (and I imagine a number of posters here) would be a bit irate if the updates and errata weren't included.
It makes a lot of sense to print the errata in the essentials books. Some might even call it common sense. I'd even go so far as to say that customers (and I imagine a number of posters here) would be a bit irate if the updates and errata weren't included.
indeed!
I don't think that I am playing 4.1 because I use the printed errata so why should be the essential 4.1? or why should they print it w/out errata??????
it puzzles me
"Well guys, this is too big of a change to put in the update document. Let's just hold onto it and make them buy it when we publish Essentials."
Besides, wasn't PH2 4.1 since it published the errataed stealth rules?
I hope he means if they include errata that they haven't been releasing:
"Well guys, this is too big of a change to put in the update document. Let's just hold onto it and make them buy it when we publish Essentials."
Besides, wasn't PH2 4.1 since it published the errataed stealth rules?
Yes. It is 4.1. Thanks for reminding me.
I was only being passive about whether Essentials would be 4.1, because I hadn't seen anything that said the rules WOULD be updated. No problem with that now.
C A L M D O W N .
Thank you. Let's get the facts first, okay...
- There is a new D&D product line.
- Nobody has seen the final product yet.
What do reasonable people do?
GO TO THE NEXT INTERNET FORUM AND RANT HOW THIS IS JUST A MONEY GRAB AND WILL RUIN D&D FOREVER!
Err, no.
We'll sit back, enjoy our weekly game, and when the new product is in the stores, we'll check it out, and if we see a good use for it, we'll spend the bucks and buy it. And if we don't think we can use it, we leave it on the shelf. Ah, life can be simple when you're a reasonable human being and not a frothing troll.
Before D&D 4th edition came out, I made the huge mistake and wasted a lot of time reading all the threads about what it will be like and how this is the best thing since sliced bread or the doom of the hobby. And in the end 90% of these posts were just wrong. So this time I'll be smart and ignore it.
What do reasonable people do?
GO TO THE NEXT INTERNET FORUM AND RANT HOW THIS IS JUST A MONEY GRAB AND WILL RUIN D&D FOREVER!
But there are no reasonable people on the internet. That is part of what makes it the internet. :P
No rules changes. This is still 4.0
I like how they assured us that it's still 4.0
Read more: www.livingdice.com/3690/wizards-of-the-c...
But there are no reasonable people on the internet. That is part of what makes it the internet. :P
Are you implying that reasonable people exist somewhere?
Are you implying that reasonable people exist somewhere?
Preposterous!
I can assure you that I am a reasonable person.
This comment enrages me so much that I shall begin a flamewar over it.
*evil laughter* Seriously, though, anything that will get new players into the game is a good thing.
The “Red box” is freakin’ awesome. I ran myself through a solo adventure in the basic D&D sets many times. It’s like a “choose your own adventure” book. I’d actually like to see some of these pop up now and again in “Dungeon”. And on that note some adventures like “Wizard’s Challenge” where you have one DM and one player would be great too.
Wizards is out to get my money. Their mission is often successful and I am happy to oblige, so long as the product quality stays the same or gets better.
I would totally dig a pop-up monster manual and scratch and sniff PHB.
I have all the “essentials” pre-ordered except for the “Heroes of…” and the “Monster Vault”, mostly because I get a good portion of the content from these with my DDI subscription.
"Everything is happening just as I have foreseen..."
Seriously, though, anything that will get new players into the game is a good thing.
We agree again, thaX. We've been agreeing a lot lately, haven't we?