Welcome to Future Releases! Odds are your a new or infrequent poster who's itching to ask all sorts of questions about your favorite class, future settings, or various sundries related to 4E Dungeons and Dragons.
Great! However, rather than spam the board with yet another What Happened to the Monk?, When will we see the Martial Controller?, and many other questions that's made the rounds here abouts give this post a look and see if I can't head off the most obvious questions. Consider this your personal Everything you've wanted to ask about 4E, and aren't afraid to ask! thread. If your an old hand and you catch a newbie asking the same old questions, direct them this way in the post and suggest additions to this thread so I can keep it useful.
Before we get started I want to direct your attention to two very useful threads:
Altar Boy's 2010 Product Release Schedule Thread
and
Ranadiel's Unoffical Compliation of all Confirmed Future Release Info
Both are great places to get started if your looking for a specific class, supplement, or adventure. These two threads are really you want to start before posting a question. The entire reason for this thread is to guide to the obvious information sources first. If you've done your homework and you still have questions, we'll be more than happy to clear things up or just talk for days about the topic. But before you get to that point, let me hit you with the most commmon FAQs. So in the word of the sage, Don't Panic!
Future Release Newbie FAQ
What is with all these Essentials Books and Box Sets?
First off, it's not 4.5! It's not! It's just a new starting point for new players and a reworking of the core classes in the game to make them easier to manage and allows for a more classical structure to class builds. These products will be evergreen, ie. reprinted as needed. They have a lower cost per book and are a solid ground level to get inexperienced players into the game. They will dominate the 2010/2011 product line up and then we'll get into newer material. They still use the same 4E system we've come to love. Nothing 'mechanically' is different about how they work in the rules, it's just new ways on building the classes. So again, Don't Panic!
Ravenloft is it's own game? Gamma World is 4E?
Yes and no. Ravenloft is going to be a self contained boxset that will work with the 4E rules. You can mix and match elements from Ravenloft with existing 4E games or play it by itself. It's geared more for the horror/monsterous PCs the game offers and basically functions as a spin-off line from core 4E/Essentails. The same goes for the Gamma World line. It is a new world/product line that utilizes the same logic and mechanics as 4E but is wrapped up in the more faux-future/modern of the Gamma World setting. That means Omega Tech gear can be dropped on the PCs of a 4E game and it won't break anything. Except your sanity. But, that's your problem.
There is a Forgotten Realm Boxset?
Upcoming in 2011, yes. Most likely to tie in with the Neverwinter Nights game coming out roughly at the same time. And it's still set in the post 4E version of the setting from what we can tell. The Realms ain't dead by a long shot.
KI the Power Source is Dead!!?
Go check out Mike Mearls thoughts on the topic at this Design and Development posting. In essence the Martial and Psionic Power sources killed it and took its stuff. Thematically as they built the Psionic classes and looked at the previous editions "Ki-like" classes they found the niche they set aside for such powers got gobbled up by preexisting structures. So in keeping with the 4E ideology of not building false symmetry the KI Power Source goes the way of the DoDo. ie. Extinct.
What does mean for Shadow/Elemental Sources?
Late September of 2008 we were presented with the Assassin class, the first of the Shadow Source. It also showed us one of the results of the old Ki Power source with the "KI Focus" class feature the Assassin had. (To be shared with the Monk.) The Shadow sourcebook, Heroes of Shadow, is due out early 2011. No word on the Elemental source, but with Essentail breaking the powersource structure from earlier books it seems less likely to still be alive. It's a wait and see.
When happened to the Necromancer?
A few things actually. First off there are necromantic powers in Dragon that give Nercromancer style powers to the existing classes. Then there is the upcoming shadow source, which that should give us more undead loving options. For now, the wizard with some Dragon magazine fluff can pull off the class. Again, check out the upcoming Heroes of Shadow.
When will we see the Martial Controller?
Oiy. This is the Flying Dutchman of the Future Release forum. It's so popular that it floats up in other forums like General D&D and the Controller forums. In all honesty? We most likely will never see a Martial Controller. Ever. Mmmm...crow pie! The Essentials Ranger is a martial/primal has two builds. One is a Controller, the other is a Striker. So there you go. The Essential Ranger is your Martial Controller. Issue resolved.
What are Hybrid Classes?
Pretty much what it sounds like. You take the features of two classes and mix them together to gain what amounts to a new class. However, unlike muticlassing you take full features from the two parent classes to create the new one. This is one of the few ways a new class having full class features can exist. Hybrid Classes are in PHB3,
What is next years setting?
2011? Taken up with Essentails support. We are getting a lot of the "Points of Light" setting. A Gazetter and a lot of adventure modules. But it looks more like a year for support of the line in general and not specific.
WoTC doesnt' like making big announcements about these sorts of thing until GENCON, Game Days, or Origins. Up till now we've only been spoiled on a handful of books either because a Dev spilled the beans (with permission most likely), Amazon posted a pre-order before they should, or its been on the 2011/2012 calender. That doesn't mean we haven't had clues mind you. They tend to show up in book tie-ins, Dragon/Dungeon articles, and the Podcasts. One common type of thread you'll find on this forum is someones theory as to what they think will come out. If you see one, jump in and add your opinion. Just take whatever is said there with a huge grain of salt until we get the offical word from WoTC.
What happened to my favorite spell?
This kinda questions goes back to way 4E works and some design choices the devs made when they broke down how play balance works. But to answer the quesiton simply: It has either a. Been changed into a ritual. b. They devs haven't quite figured out how to bring it back into 4E but are working on it. or c. It's dead and gone. Sorry to say this, but some spells and special effects were either too broken or too easy to abuse that the devs cut them from the game.
What happened to my favorite class feature?
Here is where things get murkier. Often the answer to this topic is best answered in either that classes respective forum or the General D&D forum. You can honestly ask us if we think it will come back and in what book. That's in the realm of Future Releases and sometimes old class features do return in the upcoming Powers books. (Martial Power, Arcane Power) Examples of this were animal companions for Rangers, Familars for Arcane casters. So don't get too worried, but don't expect these features to always be in the PHB's. Most often they're problematic balance wise and in the range of what most DM's call optional.
Will we see classes from the setting's Players Guides get reprinted in the future Player's Handbooks?
Short answer? No. The Longer answer has more to do with the way WoTC looks at CORE books. They've said it a dozen times now...everything is CORE. What that means is that if it comes out in a Players Handbook or a Players Guide WotC is going to support it like it no differently. So expect new features for a class in future Powers books, expect Dragon articles on the class, etc. But don't expect them ever to reprint old classes in new books. It's not economical for them. While true the Player's Guides are more geared towards the setting they're written for a lot of the material is generic enough to used in any number of settings you play in just so long as you have your DM permission. The recent Forgotten Realms Players Guide is a good example: The Sword Mage, Dark Pact Warlock, and most of the feats and Paragon Paths work great outside of FR. The Spell Scar? Not so much.
When will WoTC put out the next Powers book?
This is up in the air currently. We've had a good run of Powers book right up to Psionic. Currently the support is more for Essentials but the Shadow source book is coming out that could count as a combined PHB/Powers book.
Will WoTC reprint the books with errata included?
Most likely, no. However if there is a major rules changing errata do expect that bit of errata to be included in the future PHB, DMG, or MM as an appendix. Such was the case with the new hiding rules being added to the PHB2. And most likely any revisions to the Skill Challenge section of the DMG will show up in the DMG 2.
When does the Character Builder update?
Typically once a month, but they are currently working on an online (web based) utility so expect delays. It will be improved from current utility and support the Essentails line better.
I'll leave it to the mods to determine if they fell this thread is sticky worthy.
Bel
But I do have to point out that the following is pure conjecture:
What this means is that 2010 will only have one power source fully fleshed out in PHB3 (as far as we know)
I know this is one of your pet theories, but there is really nothing to back it up. Even with MP2 confirmed, it's still entirely possible there will be 2 new sources in 2010. I mean, if they need to publish splatbooks for 3 new sources in 2011, when will they fit in AP2, DP2 and PP2? Unless you're agreeing with that guy who believes that there will be only 1 new source in every PH, and they will be padded out with new classes from old sources. I find that idea very far-fetched, but YMMV.
What he meant, I believe, was that there will only be one Power Source COMPLETE in PH3 - like Martial in PH1 and Primal in PH2. Not that there would only be one new Power Source. As far as we know, Wizards is going to continue with 4/2/2. This means one new Power Source completed from the get go, but the others need to wait another year to be complete.
But we don't even know this. Some people have speculated PHB3 will be a 4/4 split. We really just don't know what kind of split it will be.
We don't know anything yet. What we do know are the trends, and that is 4/2/2 split. And, I believe, TheLoneCleric was referring to this trend in his Newbie guide.
But we don't even know this. Some people have speculated PHB3 will be a 4/4 split. We really just don't know what kind of split it will be.
As has been pointed out in other threads, the 4/4 split idea would require WotC to develop more power sources than they have listed.
Of course no one said WotC had to give us a 4/2/2 split with all new power sources. There's still room in the 4 sources we have for more classes! WotC could give us 4 Psionic, 2 Ki, 1 Arcane and a Primal!
4 Arcane 4 Martial 4 Divine 4 Primal.
I think 4/4 is more likely or 4/2/2 all new sources, but that would also entail the simple fact that eventually they run out. even 4/2/2 with JUST the power sources they have mentioned, they run out in 2013 well shy of the projected 2019 (10 year run for 4E like there was for 3E). We will likely see new power source names too, which doesn't bother me as mechanically there is NO difference from a Divine Implement Wielder to an Arcane one.
As has been pointed out in other threads, the 4/4 split idea would require WotC to develop more power sources than they have listed.
I've never seen that pointed out, and it doesn't make any sense.
Given 4 remaining power sources to fill out with 4 classes each, 2 books with 4/4 or 2 books with 4/2/2 will give the exact same end result.
P.S. BTW, I'd like to go on record as still believing that a 4/4 split is the only sensible way to go - leaving an incomplete power source hanging for a whole year is just a bad idea any way you look at it. For PH3, one of the sources is of course Ki. Thematically, the other one should be Psionics, with Elemental also being a contender. It's possible they're gonna hold off on Psi purely for marketing reasons - a PH4 that is Elemental/Shadow might be a harder sell.
Another possibility is to have only one source, 4 new classes, per PH, and either fill the remaining pages with something else or just make the books thinner.
There are a couple of options after that, either revisit previous p/s and provide missing archetypes, although this is probably better handled in the various power books.
Or they keep coming up with new p/s, Alchemy, Dream, Mechanical, Tantric, Time, etc.
Of course, the mechanics of these p/s we will have no idea of how they will work, just like the Elemental p/s now. Obviously this is going to get a little weird sooner or later.
Another thing to consider is if each new PHB also contains the hybrid classes for the previous PHB’s classes, so PHB 3 has arcane, divine and martial hybrids and two p/s like Ki and Psionics in a 4/4 configuration. This way PHB 4 will have the Shadow and Elemental p/s and ki, primal and psionics hybrids and so on.
Now if PHB 3 contains only one p/s like Ki and the hybrids for arcane, divine, martial and primal, that PHB should be pretty full.
I think I’ll stop there.
Bel
I know this is one of your pet theories, but there is really nothing to back it up. Even with MP2 confirmed, it's still entirely possible there will be 2 new sources in 2010. I mean, if they need to publish splatbooks for 3 new sources in 2011, when will they fit in AP2, DP2 and PP2? Unless you're agreeing with that guy who believes that there will be only 1 new source in every PH, and they will be padded out with new classes from old sources. I find that idea very far-fetched, but YMMV.
Fair enough. I'll repost the theory later in this thread and link it from there. But I'll keep it factual (or as closely as I can.) in the main post.
Please suggest additions to this thread so I can compose them in the main and following posts. If you see a question trend, let me know.
2-3 Powers books a year. 1 tied to the PHB for the year. 1-2 tied to previous power sources. That's it in a nutshell.
Note: This is all dependant on how PHB3's class breakdown will be. If it's a 4/2/2 class numbering just like PHB2. I'm right. If it's a 2/2/2/2, 3/3/3, etc. They this theory is off base and I'll state that as such when it happens.
TLC's Powers Book Theory - The basis of my theory is that once they reach 4+ classes per Power Source they publish a Powers book. And if in the rotation they don't have enough fully speced classes in the Power Source they queue up a Powers 2 book. See Martial Power 2. So under that logic:
2-3 Powers books a year. 1 tied to the PHB for the year. 1-2 tied to previous power sources. That's it in a nutshell.
The first thing is fine, but the last two sentences don't follow without assumptions that we can't make yet. Currently to the best of our knowledge, PHB3 could be any of the following: 4 Psi/ 4 Ki, 2 Martial/2 Divine/2 Arcane/2 Primal/2 Ki, or 4 Martial/2 Ki/2 Psi. All of which break the assumption that there will be a new Power book tied to a new power source in the PHB for the year.
The first thing is fine, but the last two sentences don't follow without assumptions that we can't make yet. Currently to the best of our knowledge, PHB3 could be any of the following: 4 Psi/ 4 Ki, 2 Martial/2 Divine/2 Arcane/2 Primal/2 Ki, or 4 Martial/2 Ki/2 Psi. All of which break the assumption that there will be a new Power book tied to a new power source in the PHB for the year.
And depending on the breakdown of PHB3, I could be right or dead wrong. Noted and added for clarification.
I like this. Hopefully it will reduce the amount of redundant threads we've been seeing lately. If I may suggest an addition, however, I think there should be a question about a necromancer class. Threads asking about those used to be common.
Mmm. Good call on the necromancer.
Sorry folks. Was away due to RL stuff.
What happened to the Monk?
The Monk wasn't included in the Players Handbook 1 or 2. It was left out because the devs were focusing on what they considered core play of D&D, but they did not forsake the Monk players! It has recently been confirmed for the Players Handbook 3 and will have a Playtest article much like the Barbarian and Artificer had coming May 2009. From what we know it's going to be the first of the Ki Power Source classes.
I suggest changing the bolded line to "It has recently been confirmed for the Player's Handbook 3 and will have a Playtest article, much like the Barbarian and Artificer had, coming May 2009."
Minor quibbles, but without the commas, it looks like the Barbarian and Artificer articles are coming in May 2009, which, while you or I may know is a somewhat ridiculous notion, this is a Newbie Guide, and we have to be prepared for people who haven't bought PH2 or know about the old Dragon Playtest articles. Also, I added an apostrophe in my edit-quote line above to Player's Handbook 3, because that's the way Wizards have spellt the titles thus far (spelled? spelt? I feel like it should be a -t ending in this imperfect conjugation...)
Minor quibbles, as I said.
I've never seen that pointed out, and it doesn't make any sense.
Given 4 remaining power sources to fill out with 4 classes each, 2 books with 4/4 or 2 books with 4/2/2 will give the exact same end result.
P.S. BTW, I'd like to go on record as still believing that a 4/4 split is the only sensible way to go - leaving an incomplete power source hanging for a whole year is just a bad idea any way you look at it. For PH3, one of the sources is of course Ki. Thematically, the other one should be Psionics, with Elemental also being a contender. It's possible they're gonna hold off on Psi purely for marketing reasons - a PH4 that is Elemental/Shadow might be a harder sell.
Another possibility is to have only one source, 4 new classes, per PH, and either fill the remaining pages with something else or just make the books thinner.
I was referring to the extra books WotC publishes to support any power with 4 classes. The 4/2/2 Method holds off the need to produce 2 'X Power' books for a year, allowing WotC to stretch the line out a ways.
I don't think WotC could do just 1 source per PHB, it just wouldn't cast a broad enough net. I probably wouldn't buy a Ki only PHB 3 but if it were Ki/Psionic/and-something-else I would definitely pick it up.
2 sources is really the minimum needed but I think the 4/2/2 is the way to go because it not only stretches out how soon WotC needs to support 'full power sources' but it also serves as an advertisement for the PHB 4; 'If you like Ki and Shadow, buy the PHB 4 to get the remaining classes!'
As I see it the four remaining power sources are, ranked by interest;
1) Psionics
2) Ki
3) Shadow
4) Elemental
And since Ki is confirmed for PHB3 then which source will accompany it?
I’d go with shadow, if you put psionics in it, those are your two biggest draws and PHB4 is most probably a dud. Personally I don’t think Elemental is ready yet for publication, we will see some real playtest articles for this power source.
Bel
I don't see a single power source PHB either. However, if they did do a 4/4 PHB3 then they will need to package its sources so as to leave the final two sources with enough draw to warrant purchase.
As I see it the four remaining power sources are, ranked by interest;
1) Psionics
2) Ki
3) Shadow
4) Elemental
And since Ki is confirmed for PHB3 then which source will accompany it?
I’d go with shadow, if you put psionics in it, those are your two biggest draws and PHB4 is most probably a dud. Personally I don’t think Elemental is ready yet for publication, we will see some real playtest articles for this power source.
Bel
If WotC goes 4/4 then I think they will go Ki and Shadow. Ki will capture the imaginations of those that like Monks and Incarnum while Shadow will attract people who like cloak and dagger/dark/veiled style classes (Beguiler, Necromancer, etc.).
i think Psionics is a huge draw in any PHB it winds up in, all the better it be lumped with Elemental, a source that's more of an enigma (will it be like Shugenja, Wujen, Transmuters, Truenamers...? (I'd bank on a mix of Wu Jen, Truenames and Transmuters)).
Of course On the other hand, if WotC goes the 4/2/2 route it could use the draw of the 2 power sources half-showcased in PHB 3 to generate sales for the PHB 4, which will most likely headline Elemental.
Either way WotC goes (4/2/2 or 4/4) they will have completed 4 classes for each of the 4 remaining Power Sources, so the big question is - What will WotC do for the PHB 5? I can't see them dropping the model (its way too marketable) so the only real recourse WotC has, barring inventing more Power Sources (which is completely possible), would be to include 2 classes of an older power source in each subsequent PHB. Then the problem is what can WotC mine for different Primal, Arcane, Divine and Martial classes? We all know the Martial Controller is on the top of a lot of people's lists... Hmm, well WotC could do something with the Favored Soul concept... I suppose the Duskblade could be created (Melee Arcane Controller)... Dragon Shaman and Dragonfire Adept could be mined, though I'm not sure which Power Source to put them in (Primal? Arcane?)...
2 sources is really the minimum needed but I think the 4/2/2 is the way to go because it not only stretches out how soon WotC needs to support 'full power sources'
Except it doesn't really stretch it out, it just shifts one book to the following year. The 4/2/2 model over two years means 1 Power book the first year, 3 the next. Versus 4/4, which leads to 2 and 2.
The reason I'm not completely discounting the 4/2/2 theory is that with the announcement of MP2 they've shown a willingness to do follow-up splat books. So a year that is lean on new power sources can be filled up with books for the old ones.
Except it doesn't really stretch it out, it just shifts one book to the following year. The 4/2/2 model over two years means 1 Power book the first year, 3 the next. Versus 4/4, which leads to 2 and 2.
The reason I'm not completely discounting the 4/2/2 theory is that with the announcement of MP2 they've shown a willingness to do follow-up splat books. So a year that is lean on new power sources can be filled up with books for the old ones.
Hehe, never said it was a massive shift but a shift it remains
Next year we'll probably receive a Power book for the new Power Source showcased in the PHB 3 as well as Arcane, Divine and Primal Power 2. The year following we'll see a Power book for all 3 of the remaining power sources as well as a second Power book for the Power Source showcased in the PHB 3.
Hmm, looking at it this way there really is no argument there for stretching it out. I still think the 4/2/2 design is superior if only because it teases and entices people with the tag line 'if you liked X and/or Y, then come buy the next PHB to get more!'
Either way, I just hope WotC makes each power source distinct and opposite enough (in mechanics and flavor) so that at least some of the classes appeal to a broad spectrum of players.
Quibbles noted and change made. Honestly, anything for clarity.
Along that line, in the "What is Next Year's Campaign Setting?" section, the word "Dragonomicon" is written, when it should be "Draconomicon." This is probably as tiny a quibble as can make without muddling over "it's and its" or "there, their, and they're," but I have ADHD, and these things jump out at me. It's nice to look as professional as possible.
Similarly to my previous point-out, there are a number of cases throughout the guide where "Players Handbook" is written, instead of "Player's Handbook." Again, it's so tiny minor, but it's nice to try to make it look as good as possible.
On another note, I love the Don't Panic! in the OP!
In light of Monk being Playtest released, and being Psionic, and Ki being announced as Dead, I feel like it should be noted in the FAQ, in the Monk section, if not in a "Ki is Dead" section of it's own.
Yes, and Yes.
Does someone have the link to Mearls saying that Shadow and Elemental arn't dead sources? I'm going to add an item stating it as such and I'd like the reference. I'm also considering adding more information about future races. Clearing up the whole "What's in PB3" debate.
Did you think to check the topic which is basically just a giant list of links?:P
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=10346424&postcount=9
Did you think to check the topic which is basically just a giant list of links?:P
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=10346424&postcount=9
Ya. I felt silly after I posted that. :P But thank you sir. :D The timing on my thread is a lot slower than yours. But I feeling I'm going to have a BIG update coming around the end of the year.
I'd like to point out that in the recent release of Dragon Magazine Annual, it was announced that Assassin is Shadow. This may have been announced somewhere earlier, but it is clearly mentioned in this update to certain Dragon Magazine articles in the Behind the Curtain: Assassins VS. Assassin under the reprint of the "Art of the Kill" article by Robert J. Schwalb.
Given that, it should be updated that Assassins are definitely Shadow, under the Power Sources Question on the FAQ.
Good Point. Once I get use to his interface I'll update the FAQ.
So the new newbie rush is on the Vistani and the Seeker, about the remnants of Ki, and we still need an update on the previous release of Assassin heralding in Shadow.
Okay. General updates and fixes. I'm not going to worry about the Vistani. This is really more general info.
TLC's Powers Book Theory - The basis of my theory is that once they reach 4+ classes per Power Source they publish a Powers book. And if in the rotation they don't have enough fully speced classes in the Power Source they queue up a Powers 2 book. See Martial Power 2. So under that logic: 2-3 Powers books a year. 1 tied to the PHB for the year. 1-2 tied to previous power sources. That's it in a nutshell. Note: This is all dependant on how PHB3's class breakdown will be. If it's a 4/2/2 class numbering just like PHB2. I'm right. If it's a 2/2/2/2, 3/3/3, etc. They this theory is off base and I'll state that as such when it happens.
Apologies if this is thread necromancy, but I wanted to provide my own theory on the power books progression.
Essentially, the power books exist to provide additional options and builds for each power source. However, it's in WotC's interest to keep a steady flow of new options for each different source going so players have more options for retraining/rerolling.
PHB1: Martial, Divine, and Arcane Heroes.
Martial Power 1
PHB2: Primal, Divine and Arcane Heroes.
Arcane Power
Divine Power
Primal Power
PHB3: Psionic, Divine and Primal Heroes.
Martial Power 2 (note that this is the first additions to the Martial source since MP1)
Psionic Power
Based on this pattern, it's logical to conclude that there will be a definite pecking order for future Power sourcebook releases. Martial --> Arcane --> Divine --> Primal --> Psionic. The release of a new power source in a PHB will lengthen this pecking order, stretching out the time between additions to each Power source. Additionally, the Power sourcebooks also support classes introduced in campaign guides (So far? Swordmage and Artificer).
So my prediction of the progression of future books is this:
Arcane Power 2 (new options for Artificer)
Divine Power 2 (new options for Runepriest)
Primal Power 2 (new options for Seeker)
PHB4: Shadow, Psionic, and Martial Heroes. (3-4 Shadow classes, a new psionic class, a new martial class perhaps?)
Shadow Power
Psionic Power 2
Martial Power 3
...
Ultimately, if the goal of the power books is to keep each power source from getting stale, they'll constantly keep new books coming to add in new options. Of course, the fear of splatbook bloat might keep them from introducing an Elemental source, but I think Shadow is pretty much a lock with build-up on the Assassin.
AnNyhow, that's my contribution. Hope I'm not echoing someone else's concept, but that's how it looks to me. Thanks for the great Q&A!
Is WotC still working on D&D online tools? I can't find any information on what was marketted to us as the reason to buy into 4th edition.
Thank you for any information you can provide.
- JR