Afterall, they went out of their way to mention the temple in the preview books last year.
And if we don't? Just grab a copy from previous editions & convert your own. Afterall, if your games are anything like mine, no published adventure ever goes exactly as written once the players become involved....
I would think that it won't be too difficult to convert it to 4E. I converted some older edition adventures to 4E and it wasn't too difficult. The only thing that may not be there are skill challenges.
It does take awhile (still working on ToEE, revising often)
It does take awhile (still working on ToEE, revising often)
Be sure to let us know when you're done! =D
I am planning on having it go from level 3-20.
The toughest part is the creatures with specific stats like all of the priests and clerics.
I have done the moathouse and the fire node, going to skip nulb, and am now working on the craterridge mines (OI!). The tricky part is to make sure they are high enough level before entering outer rim assuming they don't kill EVERYTHING in the crater ridge mines.
The MMII might help a ton in terms of bad guy selection.
As for skill challenges, I may have to forgo them on this one.
It might be harder than you think. Traps from old editions don't translate well and there's not alot of low-level underground or elemental creatures.
Why do you say that, especially about the traps? I would have thought that 4E makes traps not only easier to include but more fun for parties to overcome, given that a party doesn't necessarily have to rely upon a Rogue to hope to succeed against them. In fact, for a while now, I've thought that 4E has been the best edition yet created for expressing the Tomb of Horrors (a notoriously trap-filled dungeon). I'm genuinely curious.
As for a lack of monsters, creating new monsters to fill a role in the dungeon is dirt-simple in 4E. Honestly, it takes, like, five minutes to make yourself a new creature now, so I'm not sure that's going to be much of an issue.
hopefully it comes out in a dungeon article online.
That is one way to make sure no one sees it.
Why do you say that, especially about the traps?
Because the paradigm of traps is so different. In ToEE, traps are "Save or Die", not always lethal, but they only have one chance to choose one of two options. The choice is often the responsibility of the d20.
Mostly, my editing of ToEE is ripping out huge swaths of information that is important for a novel, and useless at the table.
Because the paradigm of traps is so different. In ToEE, traps are "Save or Die", not always lethal, but they only have one chance to choose one of two options. The choice is often the responsibility of the d20.
for my traps, I just try and find something analogous. It might not be save or die, but it will be find or be seriously hurt/hindered. I aim to still have a sense of danger associated with it.
I agree. For a 4E version of the Tomb of Horrors, why not use 4E approximations of the traps? 4E can still be pretty deadly...
Why do you say that, especially about the traps? I would have thought that 4E makes traps not only easier to include but more fun for parties to overcome, given that a party doesn't necessarily have to rely upon a Rogue to hope to succeed against them. In fact, for a while now, I've thought that 4E has been the best edition yet created for expressing the Tomb of Horrors (a notoriously trap-filled dungeon). I'm genuinely curious.
As for a lack of monsters, creating new monsters to fill a role in the dungeon is dirt-simple in 4E. Honestly, it takes, like, five minutes to make yourself a new creature now, so I'm not sure that's going to be much of an issue.
Temple of Elemental Evil isn't as trap-heavy as the Tomb of Horrors that just wouldn't work in 4e (as so much of it is the exact kind of traps the 4e DMG tells you not to use). ToH would be impossible to do in 4e as you either lose the spirit of ToH (save or die, one-shot traps) or 4e (traps as meaningful mini-encounters or part of combat). You'd need to make some house-rule minion-trap variant and award fractional xp for bypassing the traps.
ToEE should be more shifting traps to combat locations, ignoring traps, or expanding them to be interesting.
ToH would be impossible to do in 4e as you either lose the spirit of ToH (save or die, one-shot traps) or 4e (traps as meaningful mini-encounters or part of combat).
Eh, I dunno. I started to convert that mod to 4e awhile ago (stopped when Open Grave came out, which gave Acererak such a high level), and it was a real process of reinterpretation. In 4e, ToH is heavily skill challenge-driven, with serious (but not insta-lose) consequences for failing. The first skill challenge? Finding the (correct) entrance.
Good luck with ToEE. It's a pretty huge mod to convert.
Why do you say that, especially about the traps? I would have thought that 4E makes traps not only easier to include but more fun for parties to overcome, given that a party doesn't necessarily have to rely upon a Rogue to hope to succeed against them. In fact, for a while now, I've thought that 4E has been the best edition yet created for expressing the Tomb of Horrors (a notoriously trap-filled dungeon). I'm genuinely curious.
There's a HUGE reason for that. In 4e traps are meant to be intruduced pretty much exclusively in encounters. They add exp totals, and unless you have a solo trap, pretty much all traps are supposed be included with other monsters. Out of combat, you get hit by a trap. Oh no problem! Healing Surge! Dealing half of a PC's total health is essentially killing them (Out of combat their full health essentially adds their (Healing Surges times number of HS).
I think it's fair for me to say this, as I have tried to convert ToH to 4e. It didn't work out so well... it just didn't seem as exciting.
4e is definitely better for adding traps though. So much more simple. It just doesn't work out so well outside of combat.
for my traps, I just try and find something analogous. It might not be save or die, but it will be find or be seriously hurt/hindered. I aim to still have a sense of danger associated with it.
You haven't mentioned how you've turned Traps from a "Hah-ha! Gotcha!" moment into a party-sized encounter.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060210a (The Reactive Traps section)
I agree. For a 4E version of the Tomb of Horrors, why not use 4E approximations of the traps? 4E can still be pretty deadly...
ToH is slightly different, as the module features traps as the primary opponent. Instead of facing monsters, you're more often facing traps, so it makes more sense to roll several traps into one format in order to handle them as a skill challenge than discrete elements.
ToH is slightly different, as the module features traps as the primary opponent. Instead of facing monsters, you're more often facing traps, so it makes more sense to roll several traps into one format in order to handle them as a skill challenge than discrete elements.
Honestly, either way sounds like it could work just fine, depending upon the type of trap(s) being represented, so of course one could use both approaches throughout the dungeon. Personally, I like that 4E lets you use traps and hazards as skill challenges and like monsters, sometimes even at the same time. I suppose what I'm suggesting is that the 4E Tomb of Horrors needn't be an exact translation between editions, but rather a dungeon which aims to translate each element of the original into a format that both works for 4E and resembles the original as closely as possible. If this means that the 4E version has traps which aren't quite as instantly-deadly, or that there's a few more demons and undead creatures roaming around, I'm fine with it.
I really think that 4E is the best edition yet for creating a playable dungeon filled with traps.
You haven't mentioned how you've turned Traps from a "Hah-ha! Gotcha!" moment into a party-sized encounter.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060210a (The Reactive Traps section)
It's hard because "Hah-ha! Gotcha!" traps have such a long history in the game and fill early Gygaxian modules, especially tournament ones.
And because they're so darn logical. If trapping a building to dispose of intruders you're going to make it comes from nowhere when doing something mundane.
Yes, there can be the elaborate hard-to-bypass floor covered in trigger plates that unleashes as stream of poisoned arrows if you fail the skill challenge or can't figure out the puzzle.
But there should also be simple one-shot damage traps.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if it would be "just that simple" to move the minion rules from monsters to traps and have small attack-traps defeated with a single thievery roll or solid attack. Nasty things that sting but don't cripple and can only bring you down if you're sloppy or make dumb choices.
If trapping a building to dispose of intruders you're going to make it comes from nowhere when doing something mundane.
As long as there aren't any other "intruders" in the area, too.
The ToEE is, unfortunately, simply full of such creatures.
(I like the minion trap idea, though)