Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Marandahir Nov 12, 2009 23:15:03	Chromatics Black Blue Brown Gray Green Purple Red White Metallics Adamantine Brass Bronze Cobalt Copper Gold Iron Mithral Mercury Orium Silver Steel Catastrophic Earthquake Typhoon Volcanic
#2 mercaius Nov 12, 2009 23:52:16	Good help there, I was wondering about the full list of metallics as it stands now. Is that straight from some early release of the second Draconomicon, or largely inferred from all the previews?
#3 Marandahir Nov 13, 2009 0:24:02	Inferred, but the image gallery is up, and I was wondering what that White-astral looking dragon was until I went back and confirmed that Mithral Dragons are in it as well. All the previews have shown clearly that there are 6 new types of Metallics. The newest preview proves it with Mithral and Cobalt; Brass, Bronze, Steel, and Orium have already been featured (though Brass and Bronze not directly yet, but they have Draconian types).
#4 kilamanjaro Nov 13, 2009 11:17:26	You left out Mercury from the metallics.  They're in Draconmicon 2.
#5 mercaius Nov 13, 2009 13:18:50	Yes, I also noticed there were 12 different wyrmlings in the art gallery, so I was curious about that. Whew. Going to annoy the people who like symmetry, no doubt.
#6 Marandahir Nov 13, 2009 23:09:55	Mercury as well?  Why am I not surprised?
#7 Fox_Reeveheart Nov 14, 2009 0:17:51	which one does the sand dragon fall under? O_o  or am i thining of 3.5? edit:  glad mercury got into this edition early, i loved them in FR.
#8 mercaius Nov 14, 2009 0:22:18	The sand dragons are officially "Brown dragons" in the first Draconomicon.
#9 ikkleste Nov 18, 2009 14:03:16	would the planar dragons not count?
#10 Marandahir Nov 19, 2009 7:13:11	Planar Dragons don't truly count because we've only been given one or two age categories for them.  WotC is not fully embracing them, because they're not a separate family, but derivatives of other types of Dragons.  I could put them in as well, though, if you wish.
#11 clem Nov 20, 2009 14:00:44	What about Talc Dragons?  You know, the ones that exhale baby powder?
#12 Haldrik Nov 20, 2009 14:32:44	< Clem: What about Talc Dragons? You know, the ones that exhale baby powder? > You dont know anything. There are no dragons that exhale baby powder! They exhale wyrmling powder.
#13 Chameleon-X Nov 21, 2009 13:19:13	I really hope they release more Chromatic dragons. I mean, I know they keep griping about not succumbing to a grid-filling mentality, but come on, it's eight to twelve! You know you want to! I mean, it's not that hard to come up with four extra colors to make dragons out of, is it? Yellow Dragon Orange Dragon Pink Dragon Cerulean Dragon Look, I just did it. So, am I more clever than WotC? Not to mention that those four colors suggest some pretty obvious unused damage types: Yellow Dragon - Thunder (could shoot concentrated sonic beams that knock foes around, or have a breath weapon that creates difficult terrain by ripping up the ground with sound waves). Orange Dragon - Force (seriously, how awesome would it be to have a dragon fire a spray of energy needles out of its mouth? It could either pin enemies to the ground, or make them bleed). Pink Dragon - This would depend on the flavor. As long as it isn't another Acid/poison-spitting dragon (seriously, no more acid or poison). I would go for either radiant, lightning, or cold, personally. Cerulean - Radiant and/or Fire. I still want to see a dragon that sweeps a particle beam across the battlefield. Not only that, but you could trick your players into thinking it's a Blue Dragon, and then have them freak out when it opens its mouth and goes, "IMA CHAAGIN' MAH LAAAAZAAAA!"
#14 Marandahir Nov 21, 2009 22:14:02	I disagree.  I think poison breath needs more love.  Currently only Green and Mercury do it.  I agree that Acid is overdone though; however, Grey Dragons and Orium Dragons have modified acid breaths that do weird things beyond just acid. Does anybody else think there should have been a damage type for Brown Dragon's breath?  I think it's off that Brown Dragons alone don't have an energy damage type associated with their breath.
#15 fenrir7139 Nov 22, 2009 2:43:41	True, but what would sand be typed as? I would probably go either Force, since it's kinda intangible, or fire, if you were to go with the "boiling desert sands" type of thinking. Maybe even radiant.
#16 Marandahir Nov 22, 2009 16:13:34	I originally thought it should be Force, but Force seems to mean something else these days - like blasts of nonelemental energy, a la Magic Missile, rather than just nonelemental damage.  Because we don't need to include damage types, we have a breath here that doesn't fall into the normal damage types. I guess not enough things do "Earth" damage or "Water" damage or "Wind" damage for them to get damage types.  It used to be that Poison was related to Earth, Acid to Water, Cold to Wind, and Fire got it's own damage type.  Lighting was like a fifth element.  Well now they've abandoned the wheel (which is a good thing), but it leaves us with some difficulties for creatures that might create wind, water or earth elemental energy.
#17 Haldrik Nov 22, 2009 17:28:00	< Mar: Because we don't need to include damage types, we have a breath here that doesn't fall into the normal damage types. > The sand attack seems closest to a normal bludgeoning weapon. Like a sandbag. If its necessary to define sand as an 'energy' attack, Thunder - in the sense of a shockwave - might be plausible. But I still think normal 'wound' damage is best.
#18 thescalesoffate Nov 23, 2009 20:20:05	This is totally off subject, but Fenrir's sig is tripping me the **** out. O.o
#19 Herrozerro Nov 23, 2009 20:39:09	personally I like the untyped damage in a dragon.
#20 Marandahir Nov 23, 2009 21:44:33	This is totally off subject, but Fenrir's sig is tripping me the **** out. O.o I THOUGHT THAT FIRST!!!
#21 romtos Nov 24, 2009 7:59:08	True, but what would sand be typed as? I would probably go either Force, since it's kinda intangible, or fire, if you were to go with the "boiling desert sands" type of thinking. Maybe even radiant. Can't...stop....staring Stupid sig >_>
#22 Chameleon-X Nov 24, 2009 14:39:46	I think sand is fine as untyped, but perhaps you would want to add on some extra fire damage in the higher age categories to suggest that the sand is getting REALLY HOT. Either that, or it might be interesting to make the breath weapon to Fire AND Untyped damage... nearly impossible to resist!
#23 Haldrik Nov 24, 2009 15:18:39	< Mar: [There is the elemental damage by Fire, but] I guess not enough things do "Earth" damage or "Water" damage or "Wind" damage for them to get damage types. > Fire damage, Earth damage, Water damage, Wind damage. Fire damage is already official. In my opinion, Earth damage is already offical too. I see normal metal-andor-wooden weapons as aspects of Earth, and bludgeoning-slicing-and-piercing as exactly the kind of damage that Earth does. Contrast Force: Force damage is like strong gravity. I guess therer two kinds of force. Wide force like gravity, or 'tight' Force like the kind that holds molecules together. Force constructs seem to be made out of 'tight' force and so operate a quasi-solid objects. Sometimes, when these quasi-objects deal damage its virtually the same thing as a solid object and deals untyped 'Earth' damage, like a normal sword would. However, sometimes these constructs deal 'Force' damage, so its more like disintegration damage, where the 'tight' Force is disrupting the target. What would Water damage look like? Maybe its the same thing as drowning? Thus automatically suffering continual suffocation damage, as if failing an Endurance check while swimming? Or maybe Water damage is like damage from high pressure, like being compressed at the bottom of an ocean? Maybe being pummeled by Water at the bottom of a vast waterfall - would just be a bludgeoning weapon and count as the same thing as 'Earth' damage? What would Air damage look like? Is this low pressure, like high up in the stratosphere? Or in a tornado? Is this the one thats like suffocation? Is being wind-whipped distinctively different from other kinds of damage? Alternatively, ancient cultures connected the atmospheric air with the luminous daylight, so maybe Radiant damage can count as if 'celestial' Air damage. Basically: damage from the sky where the Air is transparent and clear like light? In any case, D&D already seems to have Fire and 'Earth' damage types. Id be interested to explore Air and Water as damage types.
#24 Ash2Dust Nov 24, 2009 17:27:53	In any case, D&D already seems to have Fire and 'Earth' damage types. Id be interested to explore Air and Water as damage types. As far as I can figure, as far as damage and hit points are concerned, water is only going to hit you really hard, burn you, or freeze you. These are easily included in untyped, fire, and cold damage, even if it is a little unintuitive to think of water as doing fire damage. Air is pretty much the same, though you may want to go with force instead of untyped for it smacking you in the face. Lots of pushes, pulls, slides, immobilization, and such effects can be applied to water and wind powers, though.
#25 guang Dec 12, 2009 9:54:04	I'm looking forward to more Catastrophic Dragons and Scourge Dragons. I hope the next Dragonicon focuses on them.
#26 Haldrik Dec 12, 2009 14:13:08	< Ash: Water is only going to hit you really hard, burn you, or freeze you. > After mulling, As the opposite of Fire, Water is probably identical to Cold damage (the absence of Fire). Water can also drown, perhaps automatically inflicting ongoing damage as if failing an Endurance swim check? < Air is pretty much the same, though you may want to go with force instead of untyped for it smacking you in the face. Lots of pushes, pulls, slides, immobilization, and such effects can be applied to water and wind powers, though. > Onto Air. Yeah, it occurs to me, 'Air' damage by depressurization corresponds closely enough to Force damage. The opposite of expansion damage by loss of atmosphere would be like compression by extreme gravity. So, Force works. Force associates with the Slides etcetera that also work with Air. Likewise, Air can cause suffocation, the same ongoing damage as drowning. < These are easily included in untyped, fire, and cold damage, even if it is a little unintuitive to think of water as doing fire damage. > It seems each Element deals certain kinds of Elemental damage, but the hallmark of Water is it has the potential to do all the other forms of damage. Water = Cold (absence of fire, numbing Cold, with or without crystalizing into ice) Water = Earth (waterfall bludgeon Weapon damage, ice piercing Weapon damage) Water = Air (Force of pressure, Force of disintegrating erosion and corrosion, and Ongoing asfixiation damage) Water = Fire (Fire of steam damage) Water = Storm (Thunder shockwave and Lightning conductivity) As the opposite of Fire, the Element of Water primarily exhibits Cold damage, but can transmute into other Elemental damage types.
#27 Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi Dec 18, 2009 18:41:22	I don't think the other elements need damage types.  You don't take "air" or "earth" or "water" damage.  That said, I still think attacks could be marked as having elemental keywords.  Like being hit by an earth elemental should have the earth keyword.  It isn't earth damage.  It's untyped (formerly bludgeoning) damage, and that's fine.  But it's damage from being bludgeoned by something with a very strong connection to raw elemental earth, as opposed to ordinary earth.  It's earth resonating with the magic of earth as a concept, not as just a physical substance.  (I'm trying to tie in truenames and the idea that material components carry power because the symbol is the thing.  Elemental earth is earth with magical meaning).  This is important because things could theoretically be vulnerable or resistant to certain elemental associations, even without the damage.  Going back to Greek mythology, there was some demihuman who was the son of Gaia and invincible while in contact with the earth.  His mother leant him strength.  As a D&D monster, he'd better be resistant to elemental earth - because his mother protects him.  Similarly, DragonMech translates poorly to D&D because lunar creatures are resistant to elemental fire, air, and water but vulnerable to elemental earth.   Admittedly, this was a tad problematic in 3.5 too, but I see a solution.  I'll just need to retroactively include the earth, water, and air keywords when appropriate.  If we do see an elemental power source, we'll probably see a lot of this.