Start salivating!
EDIT: Here's a link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/calendar
Otherwise, cool. I'm eager to see now the Sorcerer differs from the Wizard.
Excellent. I was wondering how the warden would work. Now they better make the sorcerer have a cha/con build. (What? My hobgoblins need a spellcasting controller class they're optimal for)
Cha/Con would make a lot of sense to me, since their power is supposed to come from within, instead of from knowledge and learning.
I'm mostly wondering how different their powers will be from other arcane casters. That, and I've always had trouble understanding what the difference truly is between the Sorceror, who is born with natural power to effect the world around them (spells) through magic "being in their blood" (i.e. genetics), and the psion, who is born with natural power to effect the world around them (psionics) through them being born "just a little different from other people" (again, essentially genetics).
For that matter, the psionic abilities of psions, psychic warriors, and soulknifes, and the mental/ki abilities of monks, wu jen, etc. always seemed like splitting hairs to me.
On a slightly different topic, when the ki power source comes out (which I am just so jonesing for), I really hope it is done in a very wuxia fashion (The Forbidden Kingdom, Crouching Tiger, Bulletproof Monk, etc., etc.). In wuxia style stories kung fu / martial arts is nearly always a prerequisite for "magic" / ki abilities... flight (a huge one in wuxia), telekinesis, shooting lightning, etc.
I'm mostly wondering how different their powers will be from other arcane casters.
The designers have hinted they will have a wild magic feel.
I imagine they'll have a class feature linked to randomly empowering their spells, and maybe even something like metamagic.
I think that those will be the two builds. One build empowers spells (tied to Con or Str), and the other tampers with them (Dex or Wis, possibly Int). This assumes that Cha is the main stat, of course.
Meta-Magic would be sweet, but how do you do it without making the vanilla wizard look under powered?
Warden? My bet is on a short ranged Defender with allot of opportunity/reaction powers and abilities. Maybe some sort of way to redirect damage? Dex, Con & Wis based maybe?
I don't know if they will do that, but it would be cool. It could work off of natural 20s and natural 1s? I don't know how exactly, but it could be done.
I really hope the Sorcerer has a striker/controller build. The only way they really deferientiated in 3.x was their ability to cast more spells and not speacialize like wizards.
imagin it gegtting a clas feature to recall a daily spell.
Or having random status effects ranging from nada to dazed to stunned, or nothing to slowed to restrained.
But I wonder what they'll do for Dragon content when they can't release class previews every two weeks... ;)
So this means Febuary will be Shaman and Avenger?
Here's hoping, R!
I think that those will be the two builds. One build empowers spells (tied to Con or Str), and the other tampers with them (Dex or Wis, possibly Int). This assumes that Cha is the main stat, of course.
Charisma is a shoe-in for primary ability, of course. Constitution is another surprisingly good fit, thematically. Strength and Dexterity, not so much unless something has changed dramatically about the Sorcerer. (There's already a ton of Strength-based classes anyway.) As for Intelligence and Wisdom, those could go either way; I'm gonna bet Wisdom as the other secondary stat, just because Intelligence already gets a ton of love in Arcane.
I really hope the Sorcerer has a striker/controller build. The only way they really deferientiated in 3.x was their ability to cast more spells and not speacialize like wizards. Multiple attacks on single targets would be cool.
Meta-Magic would be sweet, but how do you do it without making the vanilla wizard look under powered?
I think we can count on the Sorcerer having a dash of "Striker" in one of the builds. The other build, could be anything, even a bit "Defender-ish" possibly, depending upon exactly what the 4E Sorcerer does.
As for underpowering the "Vanilla-build" Wizard, I think that's already a given, thanks to the Druid and Invoker previews. On the plus side, they now have a much better idea of what Controllers are supposed to do. Let's hold Mr Mearls to his suggestion that the Wizard might see an update to bring them in line with the PH2 Controllers.
I'm hoping they pull out some of the old "wild magic" concepts for the sorcerer. A simple mechanic for randomizing the strength of the spells in unusual ways would get the job done.
I don't know if they will do that, but it would be cool. It could work off of natural 20s and natural 1s? I don't know how exactly, but it could be done.
Wild magic has always been problematic, because of the fact that increased randomness is generally worse for the (ever-present) PCs than the (flash-in-the-pan) monsters. The best way to implement Wild Magic would be to have it provide the illusion of randomness.
Personally, I hope this they have the Sorcerer use attack powers with a constant factor and a variable factor. Damage amount and the targets of the power ought to be fairly constant, but damage type(s) and effect can be variable. For example, maybe a power will deal 2d10 + Cha to all creatures in an Area Burst 2, and the damage type will be chosen from Cold and Fire, Cold and Acid, or Cold and Psychic. Or maybe the random aspect will be effect of the power; Immobilized or slide 2, for example.
There was also talk of "kicker effects" that buff the Sorcerer when he casts a spell; for example, a fire spell might leave him with a fiery Aura 1 that damages enemies until the start of his next turn. I think this type of effect sounds pretty cool.
As for a class feature based upon rolling a natural 1 or a natural 20, that actually sounds like it could be neat, just so long as the effect was relatively negligible; remember, the roll itself already rewards or punishes the character with a hit or miss. Perhaps on a natural 1, the Sorcerer (who missed with his attack) can damage himself slightly in order to apply a spell's effect -- but not damage -- to the missed target. On a natural 20, maybe he could get a double-strength kicker effect (for example, the fire aura mentioned above).
Of course, I'm just speculating based upon what I've heard and what I think is fair. Soon enough, we'll know if anything I said was even remotely accurate.
Meta-Magic would be sweet, but how do you do it without making the vanilla wizard look under powered?
Warden? My bet is on a short ranged Defender with allot of opportunity/reaction powers and abilities. Maybe some sort of way to redirect damage? Dex, Con & Wis based maybe?
Meta-magic could be a class feature encounter power that provides some benefit to a power being used.
I wonder if a Warden will be a wildshaping Defender.
Meta-magic could be a class feature encounter power that provides some benefit to a power being used.
I wonder if a Warden will be a wildshaping Defender.
I like both of these ideas. A lot. Especially the Warden-wildshaper idea; it's different enough, but still clearly workable. (I'd really like it if Warden is NOT just a "nature" Paladin.)
Also, I hope they drop the phrase "Meta-Magic". It's not imagination-inspiring.
I could see there being a "battle sorcerer" build that uses INT/STR (or CHA/STR, depending on which one is the primary stat) and focuses on close burst attacks. They might get a Tenser's transformation-style daily power that buffs their melee attacks for the rest of the encounter. The second build will likely be a "chaos sorcerer" that uses INT/CHA and focuses on ranged blasts with unpredictable elements.
If there's a 'gish' build for the sorcerer, then the implements will probably be weapons, staffs, and runes (a new, sorcerer-specific implement that consists of magic tattoos which help the sorcerer channel his innate power). If the sorcerer is primarily ranged, I'd replace weapons with orbs, since only the wizard gets those so far.
With the INT/CHA/STR array, races that make good sorcerers may include tieflings, gnomes, and genasi. STR is probably the iffiest one so far, I'd be surprised if the sorcerer didn't have INT or CHA in his array.
It would be the arcane blaster of choice for grunty types like half-orcs. And I think it's a good thing. I just hope they don't get too high damage, or they'll simply outclass (literally) the Wizard.
As for the Warden, I don't think it will wildshape. And if the rumors are true, the beast companion (which will surely bee a nature spirit companion, more than beast) is the Shaman's thing. So this Warden, along with the Avenger, is the most dangerously mysterious of the new classes. Dangerously because both the Warden and the Avenger may look/feel too similar to other classes and/or make for characters that you could make with existing mechanics and little custom fluff. To really work, they need to be brand new in both mechanics and flavor.
If it is a defender, then Con seems like the best fit for a secondary stat, with Str being a decent teriary fit. Cha seems the best primary fit.
Note: Not including Eberron or FR as they are in different realms.
This may have already been said, but going by the theory that the PHBs will cover every role for every power source, the Sorcerer is an Arcane Defender - with Wizard as Controller, Warlock as Striker and the Bard being the Leader.
If it is a defender, then Con seems like the best fit for a secondary stat, with Str being a decent teriary fit. Cha seems the best primary fit.
Note: Not including Eberron or FR as they are in different realms.
Sorcerers will be controllers. This has already been announced.
Well, somewhat obvious points, just to keep in mind.
EDIT: Thinking again about it, apart from the clear Leader secondary role of the Paladin, all PHb1 classes are more or less mono-role, so the multi-role thing is going to be a PHb2 characteristic.
Knowing we'll have a Striker-Defender/Striker-Leader with the Barbarian and that we already get a Defender-Leader with the Paladin, I think we can say that the Avenger should include some controllerish abilities and that the Warden could have Striker or again Controller as secondaries. This if they care about not repeating, which I hope they do. Plus, it would be interesting to see controller coming as secondary role, we haven't seen anything like it yet (unless you consider the bow Ranger to be a Striker-Controller).
Though of course different builds would be nice also, one CHA, one CON.
I mainly say this because I want to see kobolds kinda stay as awesome sorcerers like how it was their favored class in 3.5 :p
A controller using STR? >.> thats just we-todd-ed.
LETS START A CON FOR SORC MOVEMENT! WHO'S WITH ME?!
I don't wanna see it as cha/con/int, too much like a warlock. I'd rather see con/cha and.....hmmm.... dex.
edit: Actually, CON/DEX/INT would be a interesting spread for the sorcerer.
This may have already been said, but going by the theory that the PHBs will cover every role for every power source, the Sorcerer is an Arcane Defender - with Wizard as Controller, Warlock as Striker and the Bard being the Leader.
If it is a defender, then Con seems like the best fit for a secondary stat, with Str being a decent teriary fit. Cha seems the best primary fit.
Note: Not including Eberron or FR as they are in different realms.
I can only assume that the comment at the bottom of your post is a shot at the Artificer and Swordmage. If this is the case, I must correct you.
Respectfully, your theory is wrong, Atrius, and it has been proven so numerous times on these boards. (Not to you, mind you, but to others who've espoused this theory here.) "Setting-specific" does NOT generally apply in 4E, particularly in the case of races and classes.[/rant]
It's not personal, Atrius, it's just my pet peeve.
I can only assume that the comment at the bottom of your post is a shot at the Artificer and Swordmage. If this is the case, I must correct you.
Respectfully, your theory is wrong, Atrius, and it has been proven so numerous times on these boards. (Not to you, mind you, but to others who've espoused this theory here.) "Setting-specific" does NOT generally apply in 4E, particularly in the case of races and classes.[/rant]
It's not personal, Atrius, it's just my pet peeve.
I must say that the fact that swordmage will be in arcane power shows it to be 'core'
I must say that the fact that swordmage will be in arcane power shows it to be 'core'
Amen, bro!
As for what the others are doing, it looks like Wis for Divine, Str for Martial, and going off the two that we've seen I'd guess Con for Primal.
Is it just me, or is PHB2 going to have all classes that are good with Half-Elf? +con, +cha?
Aren't our world's coolest professions made for people with +con and +cha? ;)
I think it's unlikely that charisma won't be a main stat, though I could see them doubling up with strength or constitution like the paladin and the warlock. If they do release them with two main stat options only the bard will be pure charisma.
I like the idea of Strength at least being a secondary stat to give melee characters more options for casting and to add some variation from the warlock and the bard. Really there are a lot of options and almost anything would work for secondary stats. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sorc suffers from MAD.
My main concerns are;
Is the PHB 2 going to have some incentive for casters to stay in cloth armor. I could see feats that increase control abilities and bonuses to defense that only apply when wearing cloth. I kind of like this idea because it would retroactively make cloth more viable for the wizard without breaking anything or errataing the PHB into the ground.
Is the PHB 2 going to have some incentive for casters to stay in cloth armor. I could see feats that increase control abilities and bonuses to defense that only apply when wearing cloth. I kind of like this idea because it would retroactively make cloth more viable for the wizard without breaking anything or errataing the PHB into the ground.
Maybe they'll have a type of cloth armor that adds a +2 bonus to hit with implement-based attacks (or a feat that gives a similar bonus). Or something that helps out controllers in general. Perhaps that way, cloth armor can become a more viable option for druids and invokers as well as wizards and sorcerers.
Right now the +2 AC is an easy, obvious choice, because there aren't many other choice. Once there are, armor class boosts will recede into the background. Wizards are rear line combatants, after all- AC isn't their biggest priority.
Maybe they'll have a type of cloth armor that adds a +2 bonus to hit with implement-based attacks (or a feat that gives a similar bonus). Or something that helps out controllers in general. Perhaps that way, cloth armor can become a more viable option for druids and invokers as well as wizards and sorcerers.
Interesting idea, but it might go too far. Isn't that effectively adding a new category of implement?
My main concerns are;
Is the PHB 2 going to have some incentive for casters to stay in cloth armor. I could see feats that increase control abilities and bonuses to defense that only apply when wearing cloth. I kind of like this idea because it would retroactively make cloth more viable for the wizard without breaking anything or errataing the PHB into the ground.
Feats seem like a good place for creating incentives without encouraging magic item dependency (a.k.a., the one magic item everyone who plays X will want). Fluff could get complicated though...why, in all worlds (unless it's a very specific feat), does wearing cloth armor improve a certain control effect??
Secondly, access to cloth armor is generally a weak point for a class...or at least not much of a strong point. It could be useful as under-the-radar protection if enchanted, but otherwise is just a class of armor that means "sturdy clothes" and gives no armor bonus. Why should there be an incentive?? After all, there's no incentive for wizards to have low HP, right?
To chime in on Wardens and Sorcerers in general:
I hope the Warden picks up some heavy-hitting combat shapeshifting--unless the druid is meant to do that at higher levels. If it doesn't go the shapeshifting route, then I keep thinking it'll turn out to resemble Dove Falconhand. (I think it's just because she seems like a big, strong, defendery ranger type. :D) I'm not sure the Warden will actually end up that way, but if it's inventive and original it could work. OTOH, I think that would be the "wilderness paladin" some posters are hoping not to see! Who knows?
For Sorcerers, right now I would guess Cha primary with Con & Int secondary. Cha + Con = heavier damage. Cha + Int = flexibility/"metamagic." Just a guess.
All that's needed to make cloth armor a more viable choice for wizards is a wider selection of heroic tier feats for arcanists.
Right now the +2 AC is an easy, obvious choice, because there aren't many other choice. Once there are, armor class boosts will recede into the background. Wizards are rear line combatants, after all- AC isn't their biggest priority.
I see it like this: it should be more harsh for a Wizard to burn two feats in just armor proficiency. Of course though, one of the best ways should also be adding some AC boosting feats. A good one could be "sorcererous" in its nature...
Cha/Con will be more of a striker build, with the Sorcerer using pure might of personality and fortitude to blast enemies to smithereens.
Cha/Wis will focus more on pure controlling, with the Sorcerer using his personal insight into his own power to add different secondary effects to his spells.
As for Wardens, I know it's semi-boring, but I keep seeing a mixture of Paladin and old-school Rangers... a plodding warrior of nature who uses Hide Armor + Shield + Axe and utilizes aspects of different feral entities to boost himself.
I could even see his mark (assuming defender, as iirc it's all but confirmed) being some sort of animal noise, like Challenging Growl or something, perhaps to lend to its feral nature. Little to no actual shapeshifting (except added on for flavor by individual players).
My 2c.
Course, I also said Barbarian would be a defender :D
As for underpowering the "Vanilla-build" Wizard, I think that's already a given, thanks to the Druid and Invoker previews. On the plus side, they now have a much better idea of what Controllers are supposed to do. Let's hold Mr Mearls to his suggestion that the Wizard might see an update to bring them in line with the PH2 Controllers.
After I read this the impression cought me that I missed something. Otherwise Im not able to see how the Wizard from the PHB is outmatched by the Druid or Invoker. I made a direct comparison of the three of them and put each next to either of the other two and to my eyes the Wizard seems to be in lead followed by the Druid and the Invoker seems to be the weakest one. But of course I would be the last one to protest against an empowerment of the Wizard. ;)
After I read this the impression cought me that I missed something. Otherwise Im not able to see how the Wizard from the PHB is outmatched by the Druid or Invoker. I made a direct comparison of the three of them and put each next to either of the other two and to my eyes the Wizard seems to be in lead followed by the Druid and the Invoker seems to be the weakest one. But of course I would be the last one to protest against an empowerment of the Wizard. ;)
(I'll be honest with you, Nolwelen: I'm no expert. I let more "mathematically-inclined" types do my CharOp'ing for me. My comment about the Wizard pacing to be underpowered is based upon what I've gathered from the opinions of informed others.)
There is actually an Invoker power that is "Scorching burst, but better," where "better" is "and takes damage if they try to make an OA." It does Thunder damage (IIRC) though, not fire.
Well "Scorching Burst" sucks. Thats how I felt right in the moment when I saw the power, but there are other options which are better. But the most important part is, as a Wizard you just dont provoke attacks of opportunity if you know what you are doing.
Well "Scorching Burst" sucks. Thats how I felt right in the moment when I saw the power, but there are other options which are better. But the most important part is, as a Wizard you just dont provoke attacks of opportunity if you know what you are doing.
Ah, but the power lets the ROGUE dance around behind them, and if they take an OA against the rogue, they take damage. Kinda like the paladin's challange.
Ah, but the power lets the ROGUE dance around behind them, and if they take an OA against the rogue, they take damage. Kinda like the paladin's challange.
worse then kinda like...stacks with...If the paly challenges orc A, the fighter marks orc b and Invoker tags orcs a b and c with this power, then the rogue dances through provokeing opp atts, and all three take them...
how ever I don't see sleep or orb mastery in the invoker range...or better yet both...wizards are doing ok...
Covenant Manifestation: When you use a divine encounter or daily attack power on your turn, you can slide an ally within 10 squares of you 1 square.
Channel Divinity: Preserver's Rebuke
Invoker Feature
You call upon the gods to punish the enemy that dares harm those entrusted to your care.
Encounter: Divine
Immediate Reaction
Personal
Trigger: An enemy within 10 squares of you hits your ally
Effect: Before the end of your next turn, you gain a bonus to your next attack roll against the triggering enemy equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Covenant of Wrath
Covenant Manifestation: When you use a divine encounter or daily attack power on your turn, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to 1 for each enemy you attack with the power.
Channel Divinity: Armor of Wrath
Invoker Feature
As your foe strikes, you invoke the gods' power to encase yourself in a burning aura of radiant energy.
Encounter: Divine, Radiant
Immediate Reaction
Close burst 5
Trigger: An enemy within 5 squares of you hits you
Target: The triggering enemy in burst
Effect: The target takes radiant damage equal to your Constitution modifier, and you push the target 2 squares.
Level 11: 1d6 + Constitution modifier radiant damage.
Level 21: 2d6 + Constitution modifier radiant damage.
Looks like Leader and Striker splashes to me...
also the every role for every source isn't a correct philosophy, look at the martial (and now arcane) sources, they double role, and leave one blank (we still have to see if divine and primal follow that).
They won't:
Divine:
-Avenger = Striker
-Cleric = Leader
-Invoker = Controller
-Paladin = Defender
Primal:
-Barbarian = Striker
-Druid = Controller
-Shaman = Leader
-Warden = Defender
Ah, but the power lets the ROGUE dance around behind them, and if they take an OA against the rogue, they take damage. Kinda like the paladin's challange.
Thunder Wave is a close blast 3, which doesnt provoke an AO. Thats my most simple solution to this, but there are others. I can guard my back with a flaming sphere. I love that spell I have to confess.
AS a Wizard anything you can sustain and move should receive your love. ;)
I would make a bet for the first secondary attribute of the Sorcerer class to be dexterity and not constitution. Would be aiding the Halflings and the Drow instead of again the Half-Elfs. Would anyways be fitting since the Eladrin and Gnomes can stick to the Wizard. The Drow dearly need the Sorcerer class, since they got cut off from the Wizard class, by loosing the +Int bonus. Then again a class building completely on the mental attributes would be cool as well.
The Wizard "supports" 4 attributes in a way. INT - Wis, Con, Dex. For the Sorcerer it could be CHA - Wis, Int, Dex
The Drow dearly need the Sorcerer class, since they got cut off from the Wizard class, by loosing the +Int bonus.
Quee? Only races that have Intelligence bonuses can be wizards? Oh... I see what you're doing. You're speaking in PowerGamer. No wonder it doesn't make sense.
Quee? Only races that have Intelligence bonuses can be wizards? Oh... I see what you're doing. You're speaking in PowerGamer. No wonder it doesn't make sense.
Yea, sorry. ;)
would make a bet for the first secondary attribute of the Sorcerer class to be dexterity and not constitution. Would be aiding the Halflings and the Drow instead of again the Half-Elfs. Would anyways be fitting since the Eladrin and Gnomes can stick to the Wizard. The Drow dearly need the Sorcerer class, since they got cut off from the Wizard class, by loosing the +Int bonus. Then again a class building completely on the mental attributes would be cool as well.
The Wizard "supports" 4 attributes in a way. INT - Wis, Con, Dex. For the Sorcerer it could be CHA - Wis, Int, Dex
Hmm, I don't agree. Halflings, Drow and Half-Elves make perfect WARLOCKS. Remember that the Warlock stole a good bit of niche of the previous wizard. I mean, those races are pretty "wizardrish" with their warlocks already.
The Sorcerer, although closer to the Wizard than the Warlock in terms of "functions", should be farther from the Wizard then even the Warlock in terms of "concept".
And one way to differentiate it this way is by making it much less intellectual, by not focusing on Int at all. This will not only fill a gap in terms of mechanics and in terms of concept, but will also fill the need of a true blaster for monstrous races.
After all look at Gnolls and Minotaurs. I know it may sound sensible to picture them as devilish warlocks, but do you think it's so fitting for savages like them to use intelligence? They need a more brute-force type of magic and magic user. An individual that simply pumps magic out of his very body. And they need it to be reckless and at ease into the fray of melee, not shadowy and elusive as all Warlocks are by their very nature, or frail and tactical as Wizards.
That's why even if it sounds improbable, I'm for the Sorcerer who uses a physical stat as PRIMARY ability, and even possibly as secondary in one build, leaving WIsdom and Intelligence completely useless. Charisma is just much more probable as primary (due to legacy, more than anything), but at least it's fitting. I would even appreciate the use of Wisdom as a secondary, representing the Sorcerer's "attunement" with the forces of magic both inside and outside of its body, and I can picture a big badass monstrous sorcerer using Con, Str, and Wis,
But PLEASE, no intelligent sorcerers. And as I strongly think the developers also thought a bit this way and very probably left out Intelligence, I also guess Dex will have at least a secondary role.
I can really picture spells that add Dex to damage or radius for this new Sorcerer. My dream concept is that they shape spells with their very movements (Dex / Str), while empowering them by virtue of their internal magical energy (Con).
*mumbles*ranged defender ranged defender*mumbles*
Somehow I doubt we'll ever see a ranged defender. It just doesn't seem to fit with their role. It's hard to be sticky and tie up enemies on you when you're attacking from range. Ranged seems to be the purview of everything except the Defender. Which makes sense since they are supposed to be the in-your-face-pay-attention-to-me-or-I'll-bite-off-your-gibblies sort.
But they could put out a class that proves that wrong. :D
Somehow I doubt we'll ever see a ranged defender. It just doesn't seem to fit with their role. It's hard to be sticky and tie up enemies on you when you're attacking from range. Ranged seems to be the purview of everything except the Defender. Which makes sense since they are supposed to be the in-your-face-pay-attention-to-me-or-I'll-bite-off-your-gibblies sort.
But they could put out a class that proves that wrong. :D
For me, a Ranged Defender is called a "Controller". After all, the most important part of being a Defender is being sticky, and that can't be done from a significant range.
Somehow I doubt we'll ever see a ranged defender. It just doesn't seem to fit with their role. It's hard to be sticky and tie up enemies on you when you're attacking from range. Ranged seems to be the purview of everything except the Defender. Which makes sense since they are supposed to be the in-your-face-pay-attention-to-me-or-I'll-bite-off-your-gibblies sort.
But they could put out a class that proves that wrong. :D
Hey they did it before. The paladin functioned as a ranged defender during one of the previews that we had prior to 4th edition's release(I believe it was D&D XP or something like that). At the time people found that one strategy that worked for the Paladin was to have him mark an enemy an then run away. Effectively that had the Paladin working as a ranged defender. With some minor tweaks the principle could work.
For me, a Ranged Defender is called a "Controller". After all, the most important part of being a Defender is being sticky, and that can't be done from a significant range.
No a defender is not sticky. A defender is a person who makes the enemy want to them. The Swordmage already does it at mid range without too much "stick". Range should not factor in to roles at all. At least that is my opinion. *shrugs*
Paladins still mark and run away. Pansy Paladins...
Hah, I did that one fight. It was hilarious.
I imagine such a thing would come at reduced area of effect, or damage.
why didn't they release PH2 in January? why? I WANTS IT NOWS!
Me too. Not least of which because I'd like some more Controller variety. So far we've just got the one Controller, the Wizard. It'll sure be nice to have some more variety, there, with the Invoker, Druid, and Sorcerer joining the fray.
I'm really looking forward to some of these classes, though. The Bard playtest looks amazing. While I'm not really interested in playing a Bard, I'd LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see it in action! The Druid also looks like it'd be a ton of fun, too. I may even be convinced to play one someday. And I'm itching to try out the Barbarian for myself. And of course, being the fan of all things divine that I am, I'm looking forward to checking out the Avenger.
Last but not least, despite the abysmal namechange, I'm really looking forward to the Deva (Deva. Ugh!). I'm also interested in seeing what they come up with for the Gnome and Half-Orc. Can't say I particularly care about the Goliath or the Shifter, though. Damn shame they didn't include the Doppleganger as a playable race. That's a race that I'd like to see get a full PC writeup.
I see Sorcerers as Cha/Con and Cha/Wis.
Cha/Con will be more of a striker build, with the Sorcerer using pure might of personality and fortitude to blast enemies to smithereens.
Cha/Wis will focus more on pure controlling, with the Sorcerer using his personal insight into his own power to add different secondary effects to his spells.
Yeah, though I'd have described it as Con for containing massive amounts of power and Wisdom for controlling the effects of more subtle magics. Or wisdom for improving utilities and beneficial effects (gain X+Wisdom modifier benefit).
I'm hoping that the Sorcerer Implement is components: an assortment of random items that they've assigned a role in their spell casting process (like old school sympathetic magic). I could see circlets or bracers being the magic item of enhancement instead of the implement.
I could see Sorcerers as having more utilities and maybe some marks than other controller classes and these would be the metamagic style and magic working off magic style
Freezing Death Sorcerer Attack
Freezes a guy
_______________________ Encounter ✦ Cold
Standard Action Ranged 10
Requirements: Components Target: One creature
_______________________
Hit: 1d10 Cold damage and target is immobilized (save ends) and marked
Fiery Doom Sorcerer Attack
Lights a guy on fire
_______________________
Daily ✦ Arcane Action Ranged 10
Requirements: Components Target: One creature
_______________________
Hit: 4d10+Constitution modifier Fire damage
Miss: 2d10 FIre damage
Special: Deals additional 2d10 damage if target is marked. This removes mark from target
Alternatively you have the magic on magic built in:
Coat in Flames Sorcerer Attack
You engulf a man in flames and then draw the fire back to shield you from retaliation.
_______________________
Encounter ✦ Arcane, Fire Standard Action Ranged 5
Requirements: Components Target: One creature
_______________________
Hit: 3d6+Charisma modifier Fire damage
Effect: You deal 5 fire damage to opponents that attack you until the end of your next turn.
Placeholder Name for Damage path: You deal an additional amount of Fire damage to attackers equal to your Constitution modifier.
And for metamagic as utilities:
Widen Spell Sorcerer Utility 2
Your spell area is larger than normal
_______________________
Encounter ✦ Arcane Minor Action Personal
_______________________
Effect: The next spell you cast has its radius increased by 1.
Shaper: The radius is increased by 1+Wisdom modifer.
where Shaper what've I traditionally referred to metamagic specialists as.
Empower Spell Sorcerer 9
Your next spell will deal not be weak.
_______________________
Daily ✦ Arcane Minor Action Personal
_______________________
Effect: The next spell you cast with have the Brutal 2 property.
Shaper: The spell will critical on 19-20.
Placeholder Name for Damage path: The Brutal value is equal to your Constitution modifier.
or another style:
Field of Ice Sorcerer Attack 3
You create razor sharp ice shards under the feet of your enemies.
_______________________
Encounter Standard Action Area burst 2 within 10 squares
Requirements: Components Target: Enemies in area of effect.
_______________________
Hit: 2d6 Cold damage and Slowed until the end of your next turn.
Shaper: May cast the spell with an area of Wall 1+Wisdom modifier
Placeholder Name for Damage path: Deal additional Cold damage equal to Constitution modifier.
and another possibility for utilities: reactions which show Sorcerers as intuitively controlling elements even of their enemies -
Draw Energy Utility 4
You draw some of the enemies power to shield you from their attack.
_______________________
Daily Immediate Interrupt Ranged 5
Trigger: Enemy hits you or an ally with an attack ability with an Element keyword.
_______________________
Effect: Your or an ally gain Resist 5 to the Element of the attack and your opponents attack damage is reduced by your Cha/Wis (whatever) modifier.
Last but not least, despite the abysmal namechange, I'm really looking forward to the Deva (Deva. Ugh!). I'm also interested in seeing what they come up with for the Gnome and Half-Orc. Can't say I particularly care about the Goliath or the Shifter, though. Damn shame they didn't include the Doppleganger as a playable race. That's a race that I'd like to see get a full PC writeup.
Count on Doppelgangers getting the full treatment, sooner rather than later. They're too useful not to.
As for Devas, it makes the seem a lot cooler if you make a point of pronouncing it "day-va". (Spelling it "Dæva" or "Daeva" can make a difference, too.) At least this way it's a lot easier to mentally associate them with the real-world mythological figures from which "Deva" is drawn, rather than imagining the spoiled, pretentious singers and actresses that "diva" (pronounced "dee-va") brings to mind.
You might not know this, but the term "deva" is related to the Latin "deus", meaning "god". That's much cooler than Celine Dion.
Meta-magic could be a class feature encounter power that provides some benefit to a power being used.
I wonder if a Warden will be a wildshaping Defender.
Based on my speculation that the Warden is named for the Wardens of the Woods, one of Eberron's druid sects, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it is.
Count on Doppelgangers getting the full treatment, sooner rather than later. They're too useful not to.
As for Devas, it makes the seem a lot cooler if you make a point of pronouncing it "day-va". (Spelling it "Dæva" or "Daeva" can make a difference, too.) At least this way it's a lot easier to mentally associate them with the real-world mythological figures from which "Deva" is drawn, rather than imagining the spoiled, pretentious singers and actresses that "diva" (pronounced "dee-va") brings to mind.
You might not know this, but the term "deva" is related to the Latin "deus", meaning "god". That's much cooler than Celine Dion.
Really? I need to check my sources; I had thought that the Daevas were from Buddhist or Hindu mythology.
Really? I need to check my sources; I had thought that the Daevas were from Buddhist or Hindu mythology.
Zoroastrian, I thought
Really? I need to check my sources; I had thought that the Daevas were from Buddhist or Hindu mythology.
No, you're right, at least for the Hindu mythology (Buddhist I'm not sure, could have inherited it since it was born within Hindu culture), but Latin is one of the many Indo-European languages, with their origin traced back to India, meaning that "deus" is actually derived from "deva", or better, from the same radical, just as "deity" and "divine".
P.S.: A cookie to doctorhooks for having pointed out the right pronunciation. I think it may also be simpler to pronunciate it "Davah" for English-speaking people, but I'm not sure in that case if the first "A" would get the same pronunciation of the A in "day". The right sound is the A in "day", which is exactly the traditional Latin sound of E: that's why we have dEva.
Warden
Role : Defender
2role Controler/Leader
Atributes : STR, CON, WIS
The warden has normal fighterlike weapon powers and wards and few wall powers. They can place use wards that are like auras but last only one turn. Inside this wards, enemys are weaker or your ally gets boosts. The warden has weapon powers to slow enemys to force them to be in the ward. The have wall powers that hinder or stop movements of enemys. So they are best att stoping enemys aproaching your backline.
This is how i could imagine the warden from a mechanical point of view. Opinions ? please PEACH
Count on Doppelgangers getting the full treatment, sooner rather than later. They're too useful not to.
I kind of doubt it. Mostly because with the Eberron Player's Guide we'll have Changelings. It just seems to be less incentive to release a full Doppleganger race write-up.
I thought about the warden yesterday and had a few ideas.
Warden
Role : Defender
2role Controler/Leader
Atributes : STR, CON, WIS
The warden has normal fighterlike weapon powers and wards and few wall powers. They can place use wards that are like auras but last only one turn. Inside this wards, enemys are weaker or your ally gets boosts. The warden has weapon powers to slow enemys to force them to be in the ward. The have wall powers that hinder or stop movements of enemys. So they are best att stoping enemys aproaching your backline.
This is how i could imagine the warden from a mechanical point of view. Opinions ? please PEACH
The warding abilities sound more in line with a class called warder not warden. *shrugs*
It soudns inetersting, but comes off sounding more like a controller or leader than a defender.
I kind of doubt it. Mostly because with the Eberron Player's Guide we'll have Changelings. It just seems to be less incentive to release a full Doppleganger race write-up.
I don't know about the Warden really. I'm just optimist because I think Primal has a lot of possibilities and the Druid has been stripped as the Wizard and just as from the old Wizard they are able of popping new things out like the Invoker, the future Psion, the Warlock and everything, they'll also be able to tear up the old Druid and have some good offspring classes, like this Warden. I also liked the image we all had with the last Ampersand, because come on, a Barbarian with a large shield?? It was definitely a Warden.
About Doppels and Changelings, remember they already said they're one and the same now. No more Changelings as toned down Doppelgangers and Doppelgangers as powered up humanoids. And since Doppelganger sounds cooler than Changeling, and last but not least has some more legacy value attached to it, we now have Changelings named Doppelgangers. Check Races and Classes, I'm sure I read about this decision there.
I kind of doubt it. Mostly because with the Eberron Player's Guide we'll have Changelings. It just seems to be less incentive to release a full Doppleganger race write-up.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the PC version of Dopplegangers are going to be the new changelings in Eberron. There'll probably be a full write-up of Dopplegangers explaining how "young" ones are called Changelings and how if they focus on their natural talents (new racial feats) can gain things like mind reading (traditional Doppleganger ability).
Really? I need to check my sources; I had thought that the Daevas were from Buddhist or Hindu mythology.
Zoroastrian, I thought
No, you're right, at least for the Hindu mythology (Buddhist I'm not sure, could have inherited it since it was born within Hindu culture), but Latin is one of the many Indo-European languages, with their origin traced back to India, meaning that "deus" is actually derived from "deva", or better, from the same radical, just as "deity" and "divine".
P.S.: A cookie to doctorhooks for having pointed out the right pronunciation. I think it may also be simpler to pronunciate it "Davah" for English-speaking people, but I'm not sure in that case if the first "A" would get the same pronunciation of the A in "day". The right sound is the A in "day", which is exactly the traditional Latin sound of E: that's why we have dEva.
Yep, we're all on the same page here. Wikipedia tells me that (generally speaking) Devas exist in Hindu, Buddhist, and Zoroastrian mythology, although they are substantially different in each of those. What's important is the general theme they all share: Devas are "divine spirits".
Thanks for the linguistic backup, Archaon! That's exactly what I was trying to hint at. As for pronunciation, I'm not especially concerned if we don't get the vowel sound exactly correct, because we're ultimately talking about a fictional D&D race. To me, the most important part is whether or not Devas seem cool, and to me they do, as long as we distinguish them from the english word "diva" (which we mostly agree is decidedly uncool).
PS: A cookie to you too, for the kind words.
Yep, we're all on the same page here. Wikipedia tells me that (generally speaking) Devas exist in Hindu, Buddhist, and Zoroastrian mythology, although they are substantially different in each of those. What's important is the general theme they all share: Devas are "divine spirits".
Thanks for the linguistic backup, Archaon! That's exactly what I was trying to hint at. As for pronunciation, I'm not especially concerned if we don't get the vowel sound exactly correct, because we're ultimately talking about a fictional D&D race. To me, the most important part is whether or not Devas seem cool, and to me they do, as long as we distinguish them from the english word "diva" (which we mostly agree is decidedly uncool).
PS: A cookie to you too, for the kind words.
Oh God! I had nearly forgot that! :D Really, you're right!
They look cool indeed.
Plus, like they did with Eladrin and Archons, calling the Aasimars "Devas" they exhausted the names that previously belonged to Celestials, conveniently as it is, since they don't want to have that big number of goodies in your monster manual, with baffling origins, purposes, and more than anything dedication to their causes
After all, with all the devas, planetars, solars, eladrins, and archons, why the hell was there a need of heroes? Plus, I really like what they've done with the Eladrin, maintaining the old names for their "arch-fey" counterparts like Ghaele of Winter and so on. It would be rather cool (and now that I think of it quite probable too) to see similar awe-inspiring, transfigured and dangerous figures among the Devas. Unsettling winged beings entirely devoted to metaphysical concepts like their angel ancestors, maybe accompanied by half-new mythological names, making for interesting villains just as the new Eladrin can be.
Of course there will probably be deva-only paragon paths and epic destinies to represent these guys on the player side too.
The only thing that made me whine a little was the evidence we were not going to have a racial "Channel Divinity" for Devas. It would have been cool, being able to manifest a deity-specific power while playing an arcane or martial only character.
But it turns out that angels, although at the service of the gods, are not "customized" by each god. Zehir angels don't look like reptiloids with black wings, and Moradin angels don't have beards. So specific-deity-tied Devas were simply not fitting.
Instead, (maybe) racial feats will let you mechanically manifest other angelical aspects.
But the really cool thing is that just like they did with half-elves, who get different shticks which are neither human or elven, Devas look like they'll be a unique race, not necessarily "angel wannabe". Think about their looks: they lean towards a brand new style with those geometrically colored skins.
I may be accused of being a fanboy, but I say "well done Wizards" even before seeing the final product.
@doctorhook: Here:
I had forgot the cookie itself, absolutely unforgivable! ;)