Vile and Exalted books - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Vile and Exalted books

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
battlemagelv57
May 04, 2009 11:56:30 Does anyone know if they plan on making 4e versions of these if not how hard would it be to recreate most of the stuff in them into 4e.
#2
jacksmithiv
May 04, 2009 12:04:49 Nothing has been said, but I don't think they'll make either. They've been gearing things in the good direction so much, though, that I wouldn't at all be surprised if they made a supplement for playing evil characters.

I think these things are more likely to show up as articles in Dragon.
#3
salla
May 04, 2009 12:41:45 Since alignment is no longer a big deal, the probability of alignment-based books is minimal.

Recreating it is under the same issue; since alignment has little to know mechanical effect (as it should be), recreating things with heavily alignment-based mechanics would be very difficult and, generally, a bad idea.
#4
vaalingrade_ashland_02
May 04, 2009 13:53:36 To be able to recreate those books, you need to receive a lobotomy before you start writing. That's the only way to ensure conisitently low enough quality conceptualization and balancing to recreate either the book of cartoonish evil, or the book of cartoonish evil that wears white.
#5
Seeker95
May 04, 2009 14:23:06 Does anyone know if they plan on making 4e versions of these
Gods and demons, I hope not!
#6
battlemagelv57
May 04, 2009 14:30:09 Does everyone not like these books or something I think they were the best thing that came out for 3.5 minus of course unearthed arcana and I don't plan on converting everything just a few things like the feats and such not much after that, is it really that hard to convert 3.5 feats to 4e.
#7
daidojitaidoru
May 04, 2009 14:45:25
Does everyone not like these books.

I believe they are the most universally reviled books in 3rd edition. This is because they're material sucked both in flavor and mechanics. It didn't help that they outright contradicted both the core books and themselves.

Seriously the book of Vile Darkness had "vile magic items" that took more money to create then equivalent normal magical items (and had petty evil prereqs). The book of Vile er "Exalted" Deeds told you poisons and diseases were bad because they caused suffering ( ) then gave you a feat that gave a terrible disease (I mean 'affliction' ) to anyone who you touched so long as they were Evil at that moment. (Or had the Evil subtype.)
#8
battlemagelv57
May 04, 2009 15:02:17 I loved the concept enough to over look some of those problems but I never looked to them for magic items it was always the feats my character always took stuff like Sacred vow, Stigmata and Vow of poverty these are the things I want to convert to 4e.

yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess.
#9
Tharag_Bocc
May 04, 2009 15:29:31
yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess.

I liked them as well, so that makes at least two of us.
#10
daigotsurezan
May 04, 2009 15:59:00
I believe they are the most universally reviled books in 3rd edition. This is because they're material sucked both in flavor and mechanics. It didn't help that they outright contradicted both the core books and themselves.

Seriously the book of Vile Darkness had "vile magic items" that took more money to create then equivalent normal magical items (and had petty evil prereqs). The book of Vile er "Exalted" Deeds told you poisons and diseases were bad because they caused suffering ( ) then gave you a feat that gave a terrible disease (I mean 'affliction' ) to anyone who you touched so long as they were Evil at that moment. (Or had the Evil subtype.)

Don't forget that genocide is OK depending on who you're killing.
#11
akodokoji
May 04, 2009 19:46:18 I think the Book of Exalted Deeds was pretty good. It's flavor was much better than Vile Darkness and it had subbars explaining that these rules only applies to a world where good and evil were objective. It also introduced the redeemed template which I loved using to confound my players who had memorized the MM.
#12
vaalingrade_ashland_02
May 04, 2009 20:02:39 While the BoED and the BoVD were trash, I should point out that even younger readers recognised this AND these were 3e supplements, so making ignorant parellels to 4e, which is explicitly not using their concepts is just trying to start something.
#13
ORC_Chaos
May 04, 2009 20:49:50 I've removed content from this thread because Disruption and Vulgarity are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php

Keep this thread on topic and free of trolling, baiting and vulgarity or it may need to be closed.
#14
jacksmithiv
May 05, 2009 0:46:37

I was the one with my comment removed. I will reiterate with a more appropriate response:

The developers are not the ones who demonstrate a limited maturity on this matter. I cite the above quote.
#15
Emerikol
May 05, 2009 6:10:52 Yeah funny they were some of the best selling books. At least the book of Vile Darkness seemed to sell well. Maybe it was just my game store.

The removal of alignment did not remove characters who play paragons of morality. It would be perfectly reasonable to allow them to take feats giving them something special for this if they roleplayed it.

And even though I play 4e and enjoy it, it is snarky comments by some 4e people that makes me think I'd rather play D&D with the 3e people. Thankfully I'm sure this is just a message board imbalance and not the reality everywhere.
#16
Sailing_Pirate_Ryan
May 05, 2009 7:30:54
I loved the concept enough to over look some of those problems but I never looked to them for magic items it was always the feats my character always took stuff like Sacred vow, Stigmata and Vow of poverty these are the things I want to convert to 4e.

yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess.

I've recreated the Vow of Poverty in 4e, actually. It basically gives a character the expected 'plusses' for their level (i.e., a level 12 PC is expected to have a +3 to attacks, damage and defenses) and well as the ability to use 2nd Wind twice per encounter. You lose the feat's benefits if you use any non-consumable magic item (potions and ritual scrolls are OK); this lasts until you take an extended rest and make a prayer of attonement (lose 1 healing surge). The feat doesn't concern itself with mundane wealth, only magic items.
#17
shadowtraveler
May 05, 2009 9:43:28 I'm not quite sure if the Vow feats should be brought back into D&D. Taking a Vow of Poverty, for example, and gaining mechanical bonuses for it seems to defeat the purpose of such Vows. I understand the need to replace the bonuses given by magic armor and weapons, but things like regeneration and not needing to eat or breathe are a bit crazy.
#18
Maxperson
May 05, 2009 10:15:40
I'm not quite sure if the Vow feats should be brought back into D&D. Taking a Vow of Poverty, for example, and gaining mechanical bonuses for it seems to defeat the purpose of such Vows. I understand the need to replace the bonuses given by magic armor and weapons, but things like regeneration and not needing to eat or breathe are a bit crazy.

While I think Vow of Poverty was over the top, it had to replace not just magic armor and weapons, but all magic the player might get, including rings and wondrous items. This meant that it had to be something amazing and over the top, really. Otherwise, it would fail to be something anyone with half a brain would ever choose to play.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 battlemagelv57 May 04, 2009 11:56:30	Does anyone know if they plan on making 4e versions of these if not how hard would it be to recreate most of the stuff in them into 4e.
#2 jacksmithiv May 04, 2009 12:04:49	Nothing has been said, but I don't think they'll make either. They've been gearing things in the good direction so much, though, that I wouldn't at all be surprised if they made a supplement for playing evil characters. I think these things are more likely to show up as articles in Dragon.
#3 salla May 04, 2009 12:41:45	Since alignment is no longer a big deal, the probability of alignment-based books is minimal. Recreating it is under the same issue; since alignment has little to know mechanical effect (as it should be), recreating things with heavily alignment-based mechanics would be very difficult and, generally, a bad idea.
#4 vaalingrade_ashland_02 May 04, 2009 13:53:36	To be able to recreate those books, you need to receive a lobotomy before you start writing. That's the only way to ensure conisitently low enough quality conceptualization and balancing to recreate either the book of cartoonish evil, or the book of cartoonish evil that wears white.
#5 Seeker95 May 04, 2009 14:23:06	Does anyone know if they plan on making 4e versions of these Gods and demons, I hope not!
#6 battlemagelv57 May 04, 2009 14:30:09	Does everyone not like these books or something I think they were the best thing that came out for 3.5 minus of course unearthed arcana and I don't plan on converting everything just a few things like the feats and such not much after that, is it really that hard to convert 3.5 feats to 4e.
#7 daidojitaidoru May 04, 2009 14:45:25	Does everyone not like these books. I believe they are the most universally reviled books in 3rd edition. This is because they're material sucked both in flavor and mechanics. It didn't help that they outright contradicted both the core books and themselves. Seriously the book of Vile Darkness had "vile magic items" that took more money to create then equivalent normal magical items (and had petty evil prereqs). The book of Vile er "Exalted" Deeds told you poisons and diseases were bad because they caused suffering ( ) then gave you a feat that gave a terrible disease (I mean 'affliction' ) to anyone who you touched so long as they were Evil at that moment. (Or had the Evil subtype.)
#8 battlemagelv57 May 04, 2009 15:02:17	I loved the concept enough to over look some of those problems but I never looked to them for magic items it was always the feats my character always took stuff like Sacred vow, Stigmata and Vow of poverty these are the things I want to convert to 4e. yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess.
#9 Tharag_Bocc May 04, 2009 15:29:31	yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess. I liked them as well, so that makes at least two of us.
#10 daigotsurezan May 04, 2009 15:59:00	I believe they are the most universally reviled books in 3rd edition. This is because they're material sucked both in flavor and mechanics. It didn't help that they outright contradicted both the core books and themselves. Seriously the book of Vile Darkness had "vile magic items" that took more money to create then equivalent normal magical items (and had petty evil prereqs). The book of Vile er "Exalted" Deeds told you poisons and diseases were bad because they caused suffering ( ) then gave you a feat that gave a terrible disease (I mean 'affliction' ) to anyone who you touched so long as they were Evil at that moment. (Or had the Evil subtype.) Don't forget that genocide is OK depending on who you're killing.
#11 akodokoji May 04, 2009 19:46:18	I think the Book of Exalted Deeds was pretty good. It's flavor was much better than Vile Darkness and it had subbars explaining that these rules only applies to a world where good and evil were objective. It also introduced the redeemed template which I loved using to confound my players who had memorized the MM.
#12 vaalingrade_ashland_02 May 04, 2009 20:02:39	While the BoED and the BoVD were trash, I should point out that even younger readers recognised this AND these were 3e supplements, so making ignorant parellels to 4e, which is explicitly not using their concepts is just trying to start something.
#13 ORC_Chaos May 04, 2009 20:49:50	I've removed content from this thread because Disruption and Vulgarity are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php Keep this thread on topic and free of trolling, baiting and vulgarity or it may need to be closed.
#14 jacksmithiv May 05, 2009 0:46:37	I was the one with my comment removed. I will reiterate with a more appropriate response: The developers are not the ones who demonstrate a limited maturity on this matter. I cite the above quote.
#15 Emerikol May 05, 2009 6:10:52	Yeah funny they were some of the best selling books. At least the book of Vile Darkness seemed to sell well. Maybe it was just my game store. The removal of alignment did not remove characters who play paragons of morality. It would be perfectly reasonable to allow them to take feats giving them something special for this if they roleplayed it. And even though I play 4e and enjoy it, it is snarky comments by some 4e people that makes me think I'd rather play D&D with the 3e people. Thankfully I'm sure this is just a message board imbalance and not the reality everywhere.
#16 Sailing_Pirate_Ryan May 05, 2009 7:30:54	I loved the concept enough to over look some of those problems but I never looked to them for magic items it was always the feats my character always took stuff like Sacred vow, Stigmata and Vow of poverty these are the things I want to convert to 4e. yet all I seem to get now is that no one liked these book. well accept me I guess. I've recreated the Vow of Poverty in 4e, actually. It basically gives a character the expected 'plusses' for their level (i.e., a level 12 PC is expected to have a +3 to attacks, damage and defenses) and well as the ability to use 2nd Wind twice per encounter. You lose the feat's benefits if you use any non-consumable magic item (potions and ritual scrolls are OK); this lasts until you take an extended rest and make a prayer of attonement (lose 1 healing surge). The feat doesn't concern itself with mundane wealth, only magic items.
#17 shadowtraveler May 05, 2009 9:43:28	I'm not quite sure if the Vow feats should be brought back into D&D. Taking a Vow of Poverty, for example, and gaining mechanical bonuses for it seems to defeat the purpose of such Vows. I understand the need to replace the bonuses given by magic armor and weapons, but things like regeneration and not needing to eat or *breathe* are a bit crazy.
#18 Maxperson May 05, 2009 10:15:40	I'm not quite sure if the Vow feats should be brought back into D&D. Taking a Vow of Poverty, for example, and gaining mechanical bonuses for it seems to defeat the purpose of such Vows. I understand the need to replace the bonuses given by magic armor and weapons, but things like regeneration and not needing to eat or *breathe* are a bit crazy. While I think Vow of Poverty was over the top, it had to replace not just magic armor and weapons, but all magic the player might get, including rings and wondrous items. This meant that it had to be something amazing and over the top, really. Otherwise, it would fail to be something anyone with half a brain would ever choose to play.