New playable race it looks like for next month!
What are they anyone know?
Vistani are from ravenloft and are very awesome.
They're basically gypsies, who if I remember right, were the only people who could travel easily between the domains of Ravenloft. They had fortune telling abilities and I think they were somewhat resistant to the darkness and mists of Ravenloft. I think they were basically neutral aligned, not good guys, but much better than the evils pervasive to Ravenloft.
So what do you think we can expect from them as a race?
Stat bonuses?
Con Dex?
Dex Wis?
Wis Con?
I dont know thier old stats.
And do you think they'll be added as a race with ties to ravenloft or as a stand alone race like humans
It's been a long time for me, but weren't they just humans with very cool fluff?
So what do you think we can expect from them as a race?
Stat bonuses?
Con Dex?
Dex Wis?
Wis Con?
I dont know thier old stats.
And do you think they'll be added as a race with ties to ravenloft or as a stand alone race like humans
I'd put money on Con and Cha as the Vistani have a serious sorcerer bent to their race or at least they did in Ravenloft
They were basically human. I could see just refluffing humans. Do they really warrant their own race?
I'm guessing it's a set of bloodline feats. Open to humans and perhaps halflings.
I agree with the Vistani just being a series of racial feats and fluff. After all, WotC is unveiling the Seeker next month.
In domains of dread (the 2nd ed revised setting book) Half-Vistani where a playable race, they had different bloodlines within the race for the different clans of Vistani.
The recieved a +1 to Int and Wiz and a -1 to Cha (this is to represent the spiritual nature of the vistani, but also the stigma that is attached to them for being part vistani - or part human form a vistani's point of view)
In 4th ed, i think they would work just fine as flavour attached to the standard human.
And here I was hoping we were going to find out the 4th race in the PHBIII.
It remains to be seen. They could perhaps be a new race. Im just saying i think they would make better humans than their own race, but i think the same thing about the Shadar-Kai, and those dream people from Eberron, they just seem too much like humans to me, I could see just having a different set of feats for them or something like a template. I mean what about Shadow Elves, or Shadow Halflings? I guess really i could say the same thing about Tieflings, theyre basically demonic humans, well what if i want to be a demonic gnome? They could get real crazy making up different races just based off of existing races.
It remains to be seen. They could perhaps be a new race. Im just saying i think they would make better humans than their own race, but i think the same thing about the Shadar-Kai, and those dream people from Eberron, they just seem too much like humans to me, I could see just having a different set of feats for them or something like a template. I mean what about Shadow Elves, or Shadow Halflings? I guess really i could say the same thing about Tieflings, theyre basically demonic humans, well what if i want to be a demonic gnome? They could get real crazy making up different races just based off of existing races.
Actually, one thing I like about 4e is they got rid of most of the silly half-races. From a real-world biological perspective it doesn't make sense for different and unrelated species to be able to breed. And from an in-character perspective, it always seemed a bit odd that it was humans that everything seemed to want to mate with (or conversely humans that wanted to mate with everything else). We have half-elf humans and half-orc humans, but no half-orc elves or half-elf halflings. And oddly no half-halflings at all. And why no half-dwarf humans, since humans seem to shag everything else (including, somehow, dragons)?
I personally like the idea of different races being variations of other races tainted by long habitation on another plane or other magical influence. I also like the idea of completely unrelated races that have no capacity to mate with other races short of some magical mingling, and the idea that extra-planar habitation would affect different races differently (rather than simply being a uniform template applicable to any race). The Shadar-kai seemed to me to be to be Shadowfell equivalents to Eladrin, so I was a bit surprised, but not particularly dissapointed, when I learned they were fluffed to be Shadowfell-tainted humans. But I'm glad that Shadar-kai are a distinct race, if an offshoot of humanity, rather than a Shadowfell template applied to humans. IMO that sort of thin tends to feel rather generic and detract from the unique flavor of a race. I'd think (and hope) that when it comes to beings infused with demonic power, demonic gnomes would be something other than gnomes with a tiefling template slapped on them.
And why no half-dwarf humans, since humans seem to shag everything else (including, somehow, dragons)?
I though they were in Dark Sun?
And from an in-character perspective, it always seemed a bit odd that it was humans that everything seemed to want to mate with (or conversely humans that wanted to mate with everything else).
Based on the internet, I'd have to say it's the latter that's the case. 0_0
Shadowrun took the "no hybrids" route-- for example, the child of a human and a dwarf is either a human or a dwarf. I'm pleased to see a bit more of that in 4th edition, even though it means giving up my beloved half-ogre and half-troll. (I identify with the awkwardly tall.)
I am curious to see how they present the Vistani. I was a big Ravenloft fan, but somehow missed the boat on all the supplements that later expanded on them. I've got my fingers crossed that this will be a bloodline-- the more examples of those they give, the more confident I'll feel about crafting my own.
Is it Tieflings where "Tieflings can breed with other Tieflings, or with humans, but the offspring will always be another Tiefling, even with a human parent."
The one race (interestingly enough) that gets lots of templates, but not full fledged entries, are the goblins. I know that in scales of war there are both shadowgoblins and frostgoblins.
Also, I think Human:Shadar-Kai::Halfling/Gnome:Dark One
We have half-elf humans and half-orc humans, but no half-orc elves or half-elf halflings.
And why no half-dwarf humans, since humans seem to shag everything else (including, somehow, dragons)?
Mul, a Dark Sun race.
I personally like the idea of different races being variations of other races tainted by long habitation on another plane or other magical influence. I also like the idea of completely unrelated races that have no capacity to mate with other races short of some magical mingling, and the idea that extra-planar habitation would affect different races differently (rather than simply being a uniform template applicable to any race). The Shadar-kai seemed to me to be to be Shadowfell equivalents to Eladrin, so I was a bit surprised, but not particularly dissapointed, when I learned they were fluffed to be Shadowfell-tainted humans. But I'm glad that Shadar-kai are a distinct race, if an offshoot of humanity, rather than a Shadowfell template applied to humans. IMO that sort of thin tends to feel rather generic and detract from the unique flavor of a race. I'd think (and hope) that when it comes to beings infused with demonic power, demonic gnomes would be something other than gnomes with a tiefling template slapped on them.
You bring up alot of good points. Githyanki and Githzeari were both basically human but evolved (or devolved) into seperate species, and Dwarves and Duegar were the same race but are now distinctly different. but still theres a fine line in there some where. I'm a big fan of half-breeds, one of my favorite characters was a halfling/beholder. But i think some half breeds would more easily pulled off with a bloddline feat or something slapped on the base race. I think it would be real easy to go overboard and make seperate races for shadow elves, demon elves, etc, etc. I guess really its kinda up to the DM how they want to do it. I think my main beef is that alot of the races are based off of humans. I mean i like tieflings but what about demonic elves or dwarves or whatever. I guess it goes back to the point that humans will shag anything were most other races are more reserved, so yeah i guess it would make sense that you would have more Tieflings runnin around than demonic halflings or what ever. And you think demonic gnomes should be more than just gnomes with a template slapped on it? you have me intrigued now. Id love too see that worked up!
Also, I think Human:Shadar-Kai::Halfling/Gnome:Dark One
I forgot all about the Dark Ones, that does make alot of sense, i could definatly see them as gnomes and/or halflings tainted by the shadowfell. Still want to see some shadow elves.
And yes it is tieflings that always breed tieflings, no matter the race of the other parent.
We have half-elf humans and half-orc humans, but no half-orc elves or half-elf halflings.And why no half-dwarf humans, since humans seem to shag everything else (including, somehow, dragons)?Mul, a Dark Sun race.
As for the ring species, that implies that all of the races that can produce half-offspring are related, but the default settings explicitly refute this, in that the different races were created independently by different gods. It makes no real sense for them to be able to breed with each other at all... Of course, we are dealing with fantasy worlds, so there's always the excuse that A Wizard Did It.
As for the Mul, yeah, I was aware of them, but I wasn't really counting setting-specific races. I mean, Dark Sun dwarves aren't really standard dwarves, and muls are somehow sterile giants larger than either of their parent races... I love Dark Sun, but it's certainly not your standard D&D.
Eh... I tend to go with Magical Evolution.
Holy crap, what a dissapointment!
reflavored humans?! I mean i can understand the shadarkai and kalashtar somewhat, but this?
I have nothing to look forward to in the PHB3 other than the new classes and hybrids.
Holy crap, what a dissapointment!
reflavored humans?! I mean i can understand the shadarkai and kalashtar somewhat, but this?
I have nothing to look forward to in the PHB3 other than the new classes and hybrids.
To point one ... they may be making them something else. Just because they've traditionally been one thing doesn't mean they will continue to be such.
To point two ... I knew that months ago, and I'm good with that.
Funny, hybrids are the only thing I'm NOT looking forward to in PHB III.
I have nothing to look forward to in the PHB3 other than the new classes and hybrids.
What does PH3 have to do with the topic? The Vistani aren't a PH3 race.
What does PH3 have to do with the topic? The Vistani aren't a PH3 race.
I dont mean to correct you english or nuthin, but it should be The Vistani aint a PH3 race. But any way I guess speculation was that it is a PH3 race, I also though Shadow Power was going to be in there as well but i guess not.
So what are the races in the PHB 3 then?
What does PH3 have to do with the topic? The Vistani aren't a PH3 race.
I dont mean to correct you english or nuthin, but it should be The Vistani aint a PH3 race. But any way I guess speculation was that it is a PH3 race, I also though Shadow Power was going to be in there as well but i guess not.
So what are the races in the PHB 3 then?
I believe we're confirmed on Minotaurs and Wilden; it seems weird that they'd put out a Playing ... article on the Vistani before they exist to me (the Minotaurs had a MM writeup before their Playing article), but I wouldn't discount it in any event.
I believe we're confirmed on Minotaurs and Wilden; it seems weird that they'd put out a Playing ... article on the Vistani before they exist to me (the Minotaurs had a MM writeup before their Playing article), but I wouldn't discount it in any event.
Ahh Minotaurs really? That seems kinda lame, thats not really a new race i mean they was in the monster manual, well i dunno so was gnomes and they did get a good write up in PHB 2, but still Minotaurs were given a write up in Dragon. Well they better update them some or something. ok so theres Minotaurs, Wilden, Githzeari, and at least one other....Vistani? and if not them then who? its got me perplexed now, i just gotta know. Maybe Gnolls? Maybe another Elf variant? We havnt seen 4e Sea Elves yet
PH3 races = Minotaur, Wilden, Githzerai, plus 1 more - that is the confirmed list, there will only be 4
Smart money says the 4th race is Gnoll, or something related to Dark Sun.
I Githyanki and Githzeari were both basically human but evolved (or devolved) into seperate species,
They didn't use to be human. they used to be one race (called gith after thier leader becasue they had been slaves so long that they either never got or couldn't remember their race name.)
PH3 races = Minotaur, Wilden, Githzerai, plus 1 more - that is the confirmed list, there will only be 4
Smart money says the 4th race is Gnoll, or something related to Dark Sun.
Yeah it might be Gnolls seein as how theyve had a write up in Dragon too, or maybe the Shadar-Kai, they havnt been written up as a PC race aside from Dragon have they? I hope its something different. Im hopin they will have all the Dark Sun races in the Dark Sun player's guide, theyve already stated there wont be any new classes so it better be chock full of DS races.
I Githyanki and Githzeari were both basically human but evolved (or devolved) into seperate species,
They didn't use to be human. they used to be one race (called gith after thier leader becasue they had been slaves so long that they either never got or couldn't remember their race name.)
They did so used to be humans!! Read the 1e Fiend Folio.
oh. I meant 4E fluff. I'm new. 
oh. I meant 4E fluff. I'm new.
Yeah i'm old school. I miss my fuzzy kobolds.
What does PH3 have to do with the topic? The Vistani aren't a PH3 race.
I dont mean to correct you english or nuthin, but it should be The Vistani aint a PH3 race. But any way I guess speculation was that it is a PH3 race, I also though Shadow Power was going to be in there as well but i guess not.
So what are the races in the PHB 3 then?
Oh, my, dear, god. Please tell me that bolded part was a joke. Please, please, please tell me that was a joke...
Do you actually think that the phrase, "The vistani aint a PH3 race," is proper English? Were you serious when you told someone to use aint instead of aren't? Really?
And, did you actually try and correct someones English while writing "you english" instead of "your english" and "nuthin" instead of "nuthing?"
That was a joke, and I am just dense for not noticing it, right!? Please tell me that was a joke...
I think I just had an aneurysm...
Oh, my, dear, god. Please tell me that bolded part was a joke. Please, please, please tell me that was a joke...
Do you actually think that the phrase, "The vistani aint a PH3 race," is proper English? Were you serious when you told someone to use aint instead of aren't? Really?
And, did you actually try and correct someones English while writing "you english" instead of "your english" and "nuthin" instead of "nuthing?"
That was a joke, and I am just dense for not noticing it, right!? Please tell me that was a joke...
I think I just had an aneurysm...
What!? A joke?! what are you talking about! Aint is a real word! Its in the dictionary!
yes it was a joke. but if i have to explain that its a joke then obviously it wasnt very funny (i thought it was funny). to be honest though i didnt mean to write "you english" i did mean to type your english, but that makes it even funnier! alternatively i could of said "you're english".
but regardless you definatly made your Perception check, give yourself a 100 XP!
I just assumed you were Italian-American.
PH3 races = Minotaur, Wilden, Githzerai, plus 1 more - that is the confirmed list, there will only be 4
Smart money says the 4th race is Gnoll, or something related to Dark Sun.
Yeah it might be Gnolls seein as how theyve had a write up in Dragon too, or maybe the Shadar-Kai, they havnt been written up as a PC race aside from Dragon have they? I hope its something different. Im hopin they will have all the Dark Sun races in the Dark Sun player's guide, theyve already stated there wont be any new classes so it better be chock full of DS races.
Shadar Kai were in the Dragon Annual, unlike the Gnolls, which is one of the reasons why the Gnoll is considered a front-runner for PH3.
If the designers aren't putting githyanki in the PHB3 because they dont want to add more evil races as player options (their actual, stated reasoning), that pretty much means that gnolls are out.
That, or irony is in!
That, or irony is in!
i lol'd.
We have half-elf humans and half-orc humans, but no half-orc elves or half-elf halflings.And why no half-dwarf humans, since humans seem to shag everything else (including, somehow, dragons)?Mul, a Dark Sun race.
As for the ring species, that implies that all of the races that can produce half-offspring are related, but the default settings explicitly refute this, in that the different races were created independently by different gods. It makes no real sense for them to be able to breed with each other at all... Of course, we are dealing with fantasy worlds, so there's always the excuse that A Wizard Did It.As for the Mul, yeah, I was aware of them, but I wasn't really counting setting-specific races. I mean, Dark Sun dwarves aren't really standard dwarves, and muls are somehow sterile giants larger than either of their parent races... I love Dark Sun, but it's certainly not your standard D&D.
Forgotten Realms had Half-Dwarves. a breed of human and dwarves that pretty much looked like the stout shield dwarves. Dwarves Deep makes reference.
[Forgotten Realms had Half-Dwarves. a breed of human and dwarves that pretty much looked like the stout shield dwarves. Dwarves Deep makes reference.
Yeah thats right, but werent they just considered Dwarves? they didnt get their own write up did they?
But any way to get back onto topic, I was just flipping through my 3e Ravenloft book and they didnt actually have Vistani in there, it was Half-Vistani. I guess full blooded Vistani were considered to powerfull for a PC race? So maybe theyre doing it as Bloodline feats or something? I'm lookin foward to see what theyre gonna do. Ive always liked Ravenloft, and i like the support its gettin in 4e with Dragon, but still id love to see an actual Ravenloft 4e source book.
The only reason full blooded Vistani were considered "too powerful" was because they could manipulate the Mists and travel freely. I doubt that'll be a concern in 4e.
No further news on whether or not this is a separate race. But we do know how they have spread it across 3 articles. First one is the race itself, including (IMO) paragon path(s) and possibly an epic destiny. Then there's feats/background options and an exploration of Vistani culture (hooray! Fluff in 4th ed!). Finally magic items and rituals.
If the race were simply a set of feats like dhampyr then I personally think they wouldn't have two articles for feats.
I can't see it as any other than a full race with the confirmation of 3 seperate articles.
I think one of the reasons people are guessing PHB3 is that there is something about the book having a planer invasion sub-theme and dimension hopping gypsies would work with that.
Can't prove the planer bit, but I have heard of it and others may have too.
It can't be vistani... or else they would call it a phb3 preview or something. Minotaur doesn't count because I have a sneaking suspicion the devs weren't thinking about making the minotaur a phb3 class when they made the minotaur article :p I think the 4th race has been decided and if it had been vistani it would have been said so in the article titles.
Also... thats just kinda silly for them to say it's something for dragon yet a few months later put it in the phb... at least tell us if it's the race if it is.
I think one of the reasons people are guessing PHB3 is that there is something about the book having a planer invasion sub-theme and dimension hopping gypsies would work with that.
Can't prove the planer bit, but I have heard of it and others may have too.
No the only reason that people are guessing Vistani is because people are guessing every single race that they see a mention of that doesn't have a PHB write up yet(honestly I'm suprised I haven't seen anyone guiessing Formian yet, sadly I have seen someone guessing Genasi). And yes they are planar, but WotC would not be releasing PHB3 content outside of the previews at this stage. Now I unfortunatly have no counters to the people I have seen that suggest they are a PHB4 race, but there is no way that Vistani are a PHB3 race.