So... I'll break the ice on the argument:"Warden"
I'll bet on a "Primal - Defender"
Let's play the brainstorming game!!!:P
Anyway, I second. The name totally suggests a defender, perhaps one based on stealth and deception (the name suggests me something about hiding into the shadows of the wilderness and so on). I'd like it. :D
Note: avoid title that could be misred as revelations. Somebody could sneak into your house and skin you for deluding his expectations. :D
Sorry, too late to change the topic name!:embarrass
...I've tried to edit my previous post but it seems there's not the option to rename it.
Anyway, I second. The name totally suggests a defender
Yep, defender is the more likely, but... I was mumbling about a perfect balance between the PHBI role/power sources and the spoilers (actually known) on PHBII. It seems that in the end Martial source has 2 stikers and no controllers, Arcane source will have 2 controllers and no defenders...
...What if the WotC wants to specialize each power source with a definite role (read 2 Classes in a specific role) and deny them one?
...Maybe mine are speculative babblings, maybe I'm a far-sighted paranoid!!!:P
Someone in a different thread mentioned that WotC had said that "grid filling" was never the intention.
Yep, defender is the more likely, but... I was mumbling about a perfect balance between the PHBI role/power sources and the spoilers (actually known) on PHBII. It seems that in the end Martial source has 2 stikers and no controllers, Arcane source will have 2 controllers and no defenders...
...What if the WotC wants to specialize each power source with a definite role (read 2 Classes in a specific role) and deny them one?
...Maybe mine are speculative babblings, maybe I'm a far-sighted paranoid!!!:P
I don't know, but I hope it's not like that. It would screw up thematic groups by depriving them of a role: a group without a controller can go with ease, but one with no defender? No striker? That's just lame.
The Swordmage is an Arcane Defender.
Someone in a different thread mentioned that WotC had said that "grid filling" was never the intention.
What they said was that they weren't going to compulsively fill the grid just for the sake of filling the grid. Which means that they aren't going to force a power source/role combination *cough*martialcontroller*cough*, but that doesn't mean that they are going to intentionally avoid combinations which they can come up with ideas for.
- Aside from the classes which have been thoroughly confirmed, we have Druid, Warden, a class that starts with I, and one that starts with T. (I don't have time now to link but may edit it in later.)
- At least one of these four classes will be Divine, as they are not represented in any of the confirmed classes. Between confirmed classes and classes in campaign supplements, it is highly unlikely that any of these would be further arcane classes.
- Druid is almost certainly Primal.
- The Druid of previous editions has been broken up into smaller classes. Most likely, this will mean a weather magic class that would fit as a controller, and a class focused on shapeshifting which could be a defender and/or striker. The name Warden implies to me thematically that it is more likely to follow the shapeshifting Defender path.
And a couple more but I have to go or my wife will eat my toast.
Bard - Arcane Leader
Sorceror - Arcane controller
Barbarian - Primal Striker
Druid - Primal ?
Shaman - Primal Leader
I? - ?
T? - ?
Warden - ?
My guess on Warden is as either a primal defender or a divine class but more likely a primal defender.
Note that with the swordmage arcane will have all four roles covered with 2 controlelrs, 1 striker, 1 defender, and 2 leaders (artificer in Eberron PG).
If the warden is a primal defender than it's a fairly safe bet the druid will be a primal controller and have little to no shapeshifting abilities. The warden is the most likely to have some sort of shifting power, possibly as it's daily like the barbarian rages that grants bonuses to other powers of the class depending on the form used.
The Swordmage is an Arcane Defender.
Yep, I know, but is an optional class not in the main setting!
I meant balance in the core books.
Someone in a different thread mentioned that WotC had said that "grid filling" was never the intention.
I hope so, I'd like to see all roles covered for Primal and divine classes!!!:D
Yep, I know, but is an optional class not in the main setting!
I meant balance in the core books.
There will be Swordmage options in Arcane Power, is that core enough for you or are you only referring to the PHB/MM/DMG "core"?
Well, I'd put my money on Warden as Primal Defender for a couple reasons.
- Aside from the classes which have been thoroughly confirmed, we have Druid, Warden, a class that starts with I, and one that starts with T. (I don't have time now to link but may edit it in later.)
- At least one of these four classes will be Divine, as they are not represented in any of the confirmed classes. Between confirmed classes and classes in campaign supplements, it is highly unlikely that any of these would be further arcane classes.
- Druid is almost certainly Primal.
- The Druid of previous editions has been broken up into smaller classes. Most likely, this will mean a weather magic class that would fit as a controller, and a class focused on shapeshifting which could be a defender and/or striker. The name Warden implies to me thematically that it is more likely to follow the shapeshifting Defender path.
And a couple more but I have to go or my wife will eat my toast.
It is more likely that that shapeshift will have striker leanings, it would be difficult to justify giving the druid the HP and surges of a defender.
There will be Swordmage options in Arcane Power, is that core enough for you or are you only referring to the PHB/MM/DMG "core"?
PHB/MM/DMG I/II/x
Swordmage is a Forgotten Realms class, Artificer is an Eberron one.
Maybe the warden will be a defender with an animal companion and shapeshifting. What better way to defend the lands than to run with the pack? His defending bit could be similar to an Aegis, except he lets his mastiff loose on the hapless foe, while he becomes something bigger and nastier to take on the rest?
PHB/MM/DMG I/II/x
Swordmage is a Forgotten Realms class, Artificer is an Eberron one.
Well technically everything is considered core now, so they technically are core classes. *shrugs*
Well technically everything is considered core now, so they technically are core classes. *shrugs*
What do you mean when you say that everything is considered core?
Abeir/Toril and Eberron are now parts of the basic Greyhawk campaign setting?
What do you mean when you say that everything is considered core?
Abeir/Toril and Eberron are now parts of the basic Greyhawk campaign setting?
We have a basic Greyhawk setting?!? When did that happen? ;) Basic out of the box setting is nameless and not part of anything from before, just uses some older gods for familiarity.
What do you mean when you say that everything is considered core?
Abeir/Toril and Eberron are now parts of the basic Greyhawk campaign setting?
There were some comments from developers prior to 4th edition's launch that all crunch published in all books would be considered core. As a result, all published material(to the best of my knowledge) is RPGA legal. Additionally, the reason that they got rid of campaign setting specific book dressing(like the light tan cover colors for Forgotten Realms books) is to better convey the idea that FR are just as c9ore as every other book WotC publishes.
This doesn't have any major impact on how you decide to run your game, but as far as WotC is concerned Swordmages are just as core as Wizards. And as a result, they will be supported in products just as much as Wizards or any other class.
The Campaign Guides are the closest to non-core you will see from WotC itself but even in them much of the content is easily portable and re-fluffed if needed.
As for RPGA legal well that's a mess of its own since they're still not allowing everything and they have a table of what is and isn't allowed from each book. They're currently doing Living Forgotten Realms but don't allow spellscarred features from the FR Players Guide and many of the backgrounds.
Even Dragon and Dungeon are considered core now. There is a difference between core and optional though. After all Rule 0 still applies and a DM can choose to use or not use anything in any book.
The point of making all WotC published material as core means that the upcoming character builder will let you make any character using official WotC material as 'legal'. Anything you add on your own flags the character as houseruled. This makes it a simple way to verify if a character follows the rules, even if it's in a sourcebook the DM doesn't have themselves as the program can check against it. Also anything printed by WotC is supposedly going to make it's way into the D&D Compendium.
/shrug... 'Course I like grasping at straws.
Method #1: the obvious name implications.
Method #2: What we want to see.
The name Warden is pretty obviously a good name for a defender. Game Wardens are the policemen and regulators of hunting and fishing where i come from, they are effectively the guardians of the wild (if one were to romanticize things just a little). Wardens watch over and protect/keep out/guard/ward. If your first reaction isn't "probably a defender" something is wrong with your vocabulary (non-English speakers are of course exempt).
Of course, your second reaction could well be "but maybe they decided to go with a 'hunting/striker' type character and just used the name warden". This is Method #2. Honestly, thats a reasonable thing to do, and i can't say you're wrong to do so, because we have no guarantees. In my opinion; all clues pointed to barbarians being defenders...and look how wrong i was. WoTC just came at it from a different angle then i did, and they did it just fine. So not going with the obvious "Its a defender" logic isn't wrong....Its just not overly justifiable, you're just making stuff up, which is fine cuz thats all any of us are really doing.
As for power source: again Method #1 says its primal; modern usage of Warden (in america, at least) is for wildlife positions and prisons, about as primal as you get. To my knowledge there is no strong religious history to the word, so i find it very unlikely its divine, and likewise for arcane (although several modern fantasy books have magical wardens....but those are guardians in a magical world and its pretty new, not really the source material WoTC is likely to draw on).
BOTTOM LINE: The obvious answer is its a Primal Defender, which doesn't mean its right. Anything else is a wild guess, but that doesn't mean its wrong.
But put my vote down for Primal Defender, some shapechange-like powers possible (certainly some sort of animalistic channeling, that seems to be primals thing, and nothing says DEFENSE like a bear eating your face). Mostly melee and bursts, though ranged options could be cool, and certainly woodlandsy.
Seeing how little we've been given, there are only two ways of predicting anything about the Warden:
Method #1: the obvious name implications.
Method #2: What we want to see.
The name Warden is pretty obviously a good name for a defender. Game Wardens are the policemen and regulators of hunting and fishing where i come from, they are effectively the guardians of the wild (if one were to romanticize things just a little). Wardens watch over and protect/keep out/guard/ward. If your first reaction isn't "probably a defender" something is wrong with your vocabulary (non-English speakers are of course exempt).
Of course, your second reaction could well be "but maybe they decided to go with a 'hunting/striker' type character and just used the name warden". This is Method #2. Honestly, thats a reasonable thing to do, and i can't say you're wrong to do so, because we have no guarantees. In my opinion; all clues pointed to barbarians being defenders...and look how wrong i was. WoTC just came at it from a different angle then i did, and they did it just fine. So not going with the obvious "Its a defender" logic isn't wrong....Its just not overly justifiable, you're just making stuff up, which is fine cuz thats all any of us are really doing.
As for power source: again Method #1 says its primal; modern usage of Warden (in america, at least) is for wildlife positions and prisons, about as primal as you get. To my knowledge there is no strong religious history to the word, so i find it very unlikely its divine, and likewise for arcane (although several modern fantasy books have magical wardens....but those are guardians in a magical world and its pretty new, not really the source material WoTC is likely to draw on).
BOTTOM LINE: The obvious answer is its a Primal Defender, which doesn't mean its right. Anything else is a wild guess, but that doesn't mean its wrong.
But put my vote down for Primal Defender, some shapechange-like powers possible (certainly some sort of animalistic channeling, that seems to be primals thing, and nothing says DEFENSE like a bear eating your face). Mostly melee and bursts, though ranged options could be cool, and certainly woodlandsy.
Defender sounds likely, but then a defender (not the DnD role) might have a good offensive. I could see it being a striker.