Druid- their was something about it being a mostly shapechanging class- I hope not. Here is how I would like to see it (Wishful thinking, I know)
Druid (Primal) Leader, with a heavy side of Controller (raining natures fury upon your enemies)
Woaden (Primal) Defender, stick this one with the shapechanging-ness, that way the concept is still available without mucking up Druid
and
Barbarian (Primal) Striker, maybe some defender-ish-ness, but I see the Barbarian as throwing himself with his crazy axe for heavy damage more than being 'sticky'
For Elemental I would take a guess at
Bard (Elemental) Leader obviously, and
Sorcerer (Elemental) Controller, though for some reason I keep picturing him as a striker
For Ki
Monk (Ki) Striker all the way
We also know that Sword Mage (Arcane) Defender will be in the new Faerun, and Artificer (Arcane?) Leader is most likely to be in Eberron.
After this all the other classes seem a little more blurry (Sorry guys if I missed any) but here are some of the things I could see:
Wu Jen (Ki) Controller? kind of like a from-a-distance jedi, or Gaara from Naruto
Illusionist (Shadow) Controller, or maybe Leader
Assasin (Shadow) Striker
Psion (Psionic) Controller (mind control!)
Mentor (Psionic) Leader
Mindblade (Psionic) Striker
Some things that I would like to see, but would have to come out once they've fixed the rules for PC pets and summons are-
Necromancer (Shadow) Controller (Maaaybe Defender)
Beastmaster (Primal) Controller, maybe have two or three stronger beasties doing his bidding, and
Summoner (Arcane) Defender, big-daddy monster pet
So what do you guys think? What are we likely to see, and what would you like to see?
Also, I saw an interview the writers of DnD (I think on the MMO Report on G4 TV) that PHB 2 was looking like January 2009 release. But www.dnd4.com is saying (and no link to where they got it) that it won't be until June of 2009.
Anyone have a link to concrete info on what Wizard is thinking for a release date?
Maybe it's no big deal to most folks, if all we have to do is buy another US$35 hardback in six months, but good golly--I got excited about 4E in large part because I want to revisit an old character, a Viking skald modeled in 2E Skills & Powers after the old green-book version with rune magic. A friend who's been playing 4E for a while has been praising the nearly GURPS-like character customization available. Now I open the much-vaunted new edition to find bards missing? Along with barabarians and half-orcs?
Dang. Was there simply a big rush to get the books out before con season? Will there be online errata to correct these oversights, or should I wait for 4.4E in three years? Seriously, though, if this is only half of the PHB, I will expect a lot from the sequel; I had thought that one of the purposes of 4E was to defrag the million-and-one separate books from the third edition.
I don't object to having eighty-five classes and nine thousand paths for same. Heck, I didn't realize until yesterday that all three books were coming out together...but now it turns out that this is only three of four "core" (IMO) books, and we're nearly back to that weird first-edition conceit that bards are an optional, barely-tolerated class to be used only if your GM allows on alternate Thursdays, and must be hidden in the back of the book where for some reason players won't notice. Very odd.
But players who want to be barbarians can roll up fighters, or house-rule something that'll work, mostly. If you crack the book wanting to be a half-orc (like my first long-running character, back in the seventies), you're not exactly welcomed by the new edition, and for me, wanting to be a very special kind of bard, well, there's a big hole in 4E that I would hope will soon be patched. I don't require skalds this instant, but leaving out plain ol' bards? Astonishing.
I'm glad to hear about another book of classes on the way, and will have to assume that some sort of bards will be there. Hey, 4E looks good overall (and my wife and I may still play it someday), if not necessarily an improvement on any previous edition, but this wanna-be bard is also left with just the tiniest ripped-off feeling.
The old game-design adage is, "the game's not done until the bear can shoot laser beams from its eyes." WotC went and left out the danged bear.
Monks
MONKS!!!
And some Psionic classes.
I don't mind waiting though. I've never played a Druid or a Bard and only 1 Barbarian, so those classes being delayed doesn't bug me. But I do hope everything that was left out of PH 1 will be in PH 2. Then there will be Necromancer's Advanced Players Handbook (as I recall that was the title). The basic idea of it is to include all the stuff that the PH left out.
I like the idea of the regular Psions basically being Mentok the Mind Taker (and I intend to play one that way!) A literal controller. (pulls out wii-mote)
I forget where I read about the Shaman class, but I look forward to see if it will work. In the past, when D&D has called something a shaman, it has usually sucked. (Dragon shaman, I'm mocking you!) We'll see if 4E can change this.
I want to see if the bard will not suck this time around. Bards are always fun to RP, too bad they sucked mechanically.
The Bard was a joke in 3rd edition. Period. I understand the need to completely reinvent the class and get away from the sissy like music crutch of the class. Oratory, folks, storytelling and prose. Keep music for those that want it (Oh, Brave Sir Robin, He bravely ran away!!) but offer more choice of how a bard uses/access their talents.
I also hope for the Soul Knife instead of the Physic Warrior. One that uses both parts of the classes in the new edition.
Here is what I look to happen, class wise...
Psionic
-Psion
-Soul Knife/Physic Warrior
Arcane
- Bard
Primal
- Berserker/Barbarian
- Druid (Shifter version)
- Sorcerer
Shadow
- Necromancer
- Illusionist
This is what I came to in another thread like this one.
It's inexcusable. Just like 1e, every cleric is the same as every other. Every god grants the same basic stuff. Sure, you can take a channel divinity feat that a cleric of another god can't, but all clerics get access to the same limited powers.
I hope they fix this in the PHB2, or some other supplement, where being a cleric of a different deity actually counts for something. Role-playing isn't the problem. The lack of mechanical support for those choices is.
Clerics are missing, too. I know, "but they're in the PHB." No, they aren't. That's just a class that has the name "cleric."
It's inexcusable. Just like 1e, every cleric is the same as every other. Every god grants the same basic stuff. Sure, you can take a channel divinity feat that a cleric of another god can't, but all clerics get access to the same limited powers.
I hope they fix this in the PHB2, or some other supplement, where being a cleric of a different deity actually counts for something. Role-playing isn't the problem. The lack of mechanical support for those choices is.
Classes can means many things - at how Bards changed over the editions.
And frankly, the 3,X Clerics was not so customizable.
This IS THE CLERIC. You don't needs specific rules for roleplaying.
Monks (drunken master, Dim Mak master (death touch), Wu Tang (for those of the wuxia / crouching tiger variety), Wu Jen (think Avatar Last Airbender
) paragon paths)Ninja (ghost face killer, jonin, shinobi paragon paths
Samurai (Daimyo, Ronin, Iajutsu Master paragon paths)
Classes can means many things - at how Bards changed over the editions.
And frankly, the 3,X Clerics was not so customizable.
This IS THE CLERIC. You don't needs specific rules for roleplaying.
If you read my post, you see that I was talking about game mechanics, not role-playing. 3.x clerics were customizable, and domain spell lists, when used properly, did indeed set clerics apart. I still think 2e really did the best job of making clerics (or, rather, specialty priests) different from one another.
This just takes us back to AD&D where, essentially, every cleric is the same.
A fully fleshed out roster of psionic classes would be appealing, as well. Defender (psychic warrior), Striker (soulknife), leader (ardent), and controller (psion) can all be made and I would not be unhappy.
Sorcerers use high magic not ritualistic magic like wizards.
they cast all at will with no somatic, verbal, or material components needed. they cast from within, they use the weave directly not through a focus (ritual). intelligence should be the prime req. not charisma. will is from the mind not the face. or wisdom. as they have dragon blood flowing through them, there magic is a spell like ability. they do not use spell books. (although they can have and read spell/ritual books to use as a guide to learn the feel for spells and the magic behind it) there mind is there spell book. (they learn a spell they know it) they can learn the spell behind the rituals that wizards use. they are limited in how many ritual spells they can learn. (they are learned after all) and of course they can use scrolls and magic items as well. using a wand, orb, or staff as a focus is fine.
Defender
Barbarian (Primal? Martial?)
Samurai (Ki)
Striker
Ninja (ki)
Monk (ki)
Swashbuckler (martial)
Scout (primal or martial)
Spellthief (arcane, too good a name for a class to disappear)
Leader
Bard (arcane?)
Controller
Druid (primal)
Sorcerer (arcane)
Wu Jen (ki or arcane)
Psion (psi)
Wilder (psi)
That's all I can think of right now.
In particular for Ki
Monks (drunken master, Dim Mak master (death touch), Wu Tang (for those of the wuxia / crouching tiger variety), Wu Jen (think Avatar Last Airbender
Ninja (ghost face killer, jonin, shinobi paragon paths
Samurai (Daimyo, Ronin, Iajutsu Master paragon paths)
Agree here would love to see samurai as a real class not some half assed add-on , coughcompletewarriorcough, and the different styles mentioned above being very good ideas for Paragon paths. Especially iajutsu master and drunken master, both lead to very different mechanical and role playing paths.
Love to see and non nerfed psionics, Soulknife & Psychic Warrior included. If summoning was such a huge problem last edition just change it completely or leave it off the power list for Psions. No more polymorph so why not limited to no summoning for psions since that seemed to be such an issue.
Druid and barbarian are sorely missed if only for the interesting options involved there.
Monk, Soulknife, Incarnate?
Psionic:
Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, Ardent?
Primal:
Barbarian, Shaman?, Druid
Elemental:
Sorcerer?, Shaman?
Shadow:
Illusionist, Ninja
Arcane:
Bard
Martial:
Samurai
I'd also be really delighted to see if some classes got combined. Barbarian or Shaman taking the Totemists stuff? Monk & Psywar have always been close in my eyes. Soulknife, PsyWar, Wu Jen, Samurai, Shugenja etc could easily be paragon paths rather than entire classes, though I think it'd be cool to have them as full progressions.
but of course they need bards and sorcerers.
If you read my post, you see that I was talking about game mechanics, not role-playing. 3.x clerics were customizable, and domain spell lists, when used properly, did indeed set clerics apart. I still think 2e really did the best job of making clerics (or, rather, specialty priests) different from one another.
This just takes us back to AD&D where, essentially, every cleric is the same.
They're only the same if you're only defining your character mechanically. Cleric used to be an overwhelmingly complicated class. But fine, if you want to take your home campaign and toss in restrictions and stuff for your deities, invent a bunch of deity-specific feats, go ahead, no one's stopping you. The rules are loose and simple enough to practically encourage it.
But me? I fail to see any problems that can't be solved by a good GM and/or good roleplaying. *shrug*
Love to play a monk in 4e but unfortunately it looks like that power source will be saved for a later. Do you think they will add any new classes like Warlord in PH2 and 3? I kind of like Warlord, but I don't see any glaring holes in other areas. And what do you think Elemental is focused on?
They're only the same if you're only defining your character mechanically. Cleric used to be an overwhelmingly complicated class. But fine, if you want to take your home campaign and toss in restrictions and stuff for your deities, invent a bunch of deity-specific feats, go ahead, no one's stopping you. The rules are loose and simple enough to practically encourage it.
But me? I fail to see any problems that can't be solved by a good GM and/or good roleplaying. *shrug*
In general, I agree with you on your last point. However, even the designers, in the PHB, indicate that things are separated on both role-playing *and* mechanics.
Page 16, 1st column, last paragraph:
"Leaders (the role) fulfill their function through mechanics; party leaders are born through role-playing."
And that is precisely my point. Clerics of different gods are certainly (or should be) separated, in part, by role-playing. But they should also be certainly be separated by mechanics, and they aren't. In this version, mechanically, a cleric is a cleric is a cleric.
What I would like to see is some mechanical differentiation between clerics of different gods. They would fulfill their roles in a mechanically different fashion from clerics of other gods. As the game is now, that isn't really possible.
I see the Monk coming back as a divine striker. Not sure what a divine controller would be like, someone who specializes in glyphs and wards to create hazardous areas for enemies perhaps.
A spellsword type class would make a good arcane defender, or the arcane defender could be an illusionist who uses false images and noises to confuse enemies and draw them away from other vulnerable players. The sorcerer should be an arcane leader, it maintains the charismatic aspects of the class.
I think it would be cool to have the Barbarian as a martial controller. Imagine a class with enough mobility to leap out from a protected area, like behind the defender, into a mob. He spreads out damage over the whole group for a round or two, after that he needs some healing so he leaps back behind the defender to get some help from the party's leader.
Finally they get some love and respectability in 3e only to be left out of fourth entirely?
Class features:
Song of celerity:
(Encounter, minor)
Personal
Allows the bladesinger to use an at-will or encounter power of no more than 1/4 the bladesinger's level as part of this power's affect.
Bladesong style:
(Encounter, minor)
Personal, Stance
For the remainder of the encounter, the bladesinger may double any applicable dex or int bonuses to armor class or reflex defense if wearing light or no armor.
Bladesinger's Assault:
(Daily, standard)
Melee, Weapon
4[w] + dex damage, and the bladesinger may use one at-will or encounter of no more than 1/2 the bladesinger's level as part of the attack.
I don't really think there is need for a lot of new classes. I would rather they put out more powers that let you customize one of the core classes to become what others have suggested need a full class. The exception would be the hybrid-type classes that don't work well as multiclass.
A few classes would be welcome - I wouldn't mind getting some 3.5 classes and races PHB dropped off. But like you VerysArkon, I really would appreciate more powers, feats (including racial and divine), class options, rituals, paragon paths, and epic destinies for current selection of classes. I think many hybrid class options work already quite well as multiclass, or just additional class options.
I don't have 3.5 PHB2 but just read it's review - it had 4 new classes and bunch of options for old classes. I hope 4E PHB2 follows similar path! Btw, do we have any hints about it's content yet - or actual confirmation it will actually come?
With 3.5, nothing outside core books was necessary - this time it feels to be differently. I can accept if I have to buy PHB2 and MM2, but after that I expect to have enough variety for the game. If WotC won't give us that, I'll be disappointed.
Illusionist
Bard
Barbarian
Druid (shapechanger)
Shaman
Sorcerer
Necromancer
Psion
Psychic Warrior(defender)
Soulknife(striker)
Monk
Swashbuckler (or any class that is made to be both fast and smart)
and I would like to see a priest class, a cleric with out the marital ability
and something new that makes me go WOW!
All of those Power sources are listed in the 4e PH (somebody check me on this) So, Druid is the shape-shifter and Shaman is the other side of Druid? Where'd you find that out or is it just a conjecture?
someone, somewhere, said that they heard the druid will be focusing on the shape shifting aspect of the class, and that something else will take up the old classes focus on spellcasting. Since in 3.x, the Spirit Shaman was pretty much a non-shape shifting druid, I'm guessing that something similar will be the "casty druid"
this is obviously true as I heard it on the internets.
I really hope they give it some of the feel the old 1e illusionist had.
Besides the obvious illusion spells, give it the fog/mist/cloud & prismatic/chromatic spice it used to have. It could be an awesome master of the new "radiant" energy type in exchange for giving up the evoker type wizard blast spells.
In addition to all current illusion spells that wizards use, illusionists should receive them at a lower level, and/or receive higher powered versions of the same spell. Ala Superior Invisibility, Phantom Steed as a Utility instead of a ritual etc.
At wills: Chromatic Orb, Dark Bolt, Disguise Self(utility) etc.
Encounter: Color Spray, Paralyzation (ala 1ed), Blindness (ala 1ed), Shadow Magic & Demi Shadow Magic, All the low end Prismatics, Lucent lance, Shadow Assailants, Shadow Grappler etc revised Silent Image, Phantasmal Force, Spectral Force type spells.
Daily: All the high end Prismatics, Phantasmal Killer, Weird, upgraded Legion of Sentinels etc.
Utilities: Blur, Mirror image, Invisibility, Project Image, Phantom Steed, Wraithform, Ghost Armor etc.
Rituals: Dream, Vision, Programmed Illusion, Permanent Illusion, Alter Reality, Shadow Summoning spells, etc.
Just some of the things I'd like to see :D
My vote is for:
Shadow:
Bard-Leader
Illusionist-Controller
Necromancer-Striker
Primal:
Druid-not sure, could justify any of them, depending on which MMORPG they model it after.
Barbarian- Striker
Psionic:
Psion-could go leader or controller, most likely which ever of the two the druid is not, unless the druid manages to be defender, then it is anyones game
Psychic Warrior- Defender
Soul Knife- Striker
Knight/Cavalier (mounted warrior)
Druid
Barbarian
Bard
Assassin
druids
psions
bards
swashbuckler/fencer/dervish (some dex based fighter that would be a great class for drizzt. ranger is fine, but their melee attacks are STR based, which doesn't work. this could also just amount to more/new powers for either the fighter or the ranger.)
pugilist?
beguiler (if bard doesn't already fill this role)
samurai
ninja
now that i'm thinking of it, you guys should just re-release the Oriental Adventures book and put all the Asian-flavor classes in there--monk included.
The omission of the bard is nigh-inexcusable. I hadn't taken that verbage in Races And Classes about bards still being under development to mean that they wouldn't make the PHB. Jeez.
I feel your pain. My favourite 2nd Edition/3rd Edition character I've ever played was an Ice Barbarian Skald (using the kit from "The Complete Bard's Handbook") from Dragonlance. I too miss the Bard.
In the meantime, however, I think a Warlord with the Inspiring Presence feature and the right choice of Powers can properly simulate a Skald until we have a true Bard class.
If they're going to continue Eberron as a supported setting then they need an artificer class as well. Possibly a variant arcane controller, but could also possibly be an arcane striker.
Keith Baker's blog mentions a full write-up for the Artificer in the July Dragon.
Bruce Cordell on Psionics and "whoever" did the work on 3E Faerun's Shadovar working on the Shadow power source. A Primordial influence on the elemental power source would be nice too, drawing on the Elemental Chaos and the Primordials as a cleric draws on faith and the gods or a warlock draws on ambient magic and his pact.
I'm disgusted with this—character classing on rails. The elimination of prestige classes is but one of the many design desions—too many to list here—that takes choice away from the gamer.
I play in the RPGA, and from the makeup of that group, Living Forgotten Realms is going to be much more sparesly populated; I fully expect that most of the old hands will be gone, and tabletop gaming the worse for it.
Seriously, Wizards should have a focus group with all the people angry about 4e just so they can understand HOW it is that they are ******* us off. As things are going now, I'm going to sit through 4e RPGA modules thinking "THis would be so much more fun with my mindbender." Or my Blade Bravo. Or my Master Thrower. Or those levels of Drunken master I JUST got access to when they pulled the plug on Living Greyhawk.
Wow I'm madder than I thouht. I think Im going to go punch my 4e PHB.
Doesn't class proliferation create balance problems, unecessary book-keeping and memorising, and increase the need and misuse of optimization?
A lot of classes seem to be catered for under the 4e PHB classes with some minor flavour tweaking - couldn't a fighter simulate a barbarian, or a paladin a mounted warrior or a wizard a sorceror?
I think that very few new classes are required in PHB2+. I would rather see more ways of altering existing classes in order to get options - more powers etc.
So, with that in mind the only classes I'd really like to see are:
Druid
Bard
Monk
Some psionic class
How about a class that can go back in time and save the DnD design philosophy from the clutches of the black-hearted 4e development team?
I'm disgusted with this—character classing on rails. The elimination of prestige classes is but one of the many design desions—too many to list here—that takes choice away from the gamer.
I play in the RPGA, and from the makeup of that group, Living Forgotten Realms is going to be much more sparesly populated; I fully expect that most of the old hands will be gone, and tabletop gaming the worse for it.
Seriously, Wizards should have a focus group with all the people angry about 4e just so they can understand HOW it is that they are ******* us off. As things are going now, I'm going to sit through 4e RPGA modules thinking "THis would be so much more fun with my mindbender." Or my Blade Bravo. Or my Master Thrower. Or those levels of Drunken master I JUST got access to when they pulled the plug on Living Greyhawk.
Wow I'm madder than I thouht. I think Im going to go punch my 4e PHB.
FAILURE.
Monks
Monks
MONKS!!!
You can say that again, brother. Maybe with increasing font sizes, the message will sink in at WotC. Give me my Monks!
Arcane Leader - Bard
Divine Controller - Priest
Ki Striker - Monk
Primal Controller - Sorcerer
Primal Defender - Barbarian
Primal Leader - Shaman
Primal Striker - Druid
Shadow Controller - Illusionist
Shadow Leader - Necromancer
Shadow Striker - Assassin
I suspect the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, and Sorcerer will see publication in the PHB2 and beforehand, but damn it, I REALLY want to see the Monk, too! Either in the PHB2 or sooner.
Make it a Martial with skills like Religion, Bluff, Stealthy, Insight, Arcana, Athletics and perhaps Thievery or Streetwise.
Must have Turn Undead!!
I don´t if it should be a Striker or a Defender
Crossbow Fighting Powers.
Powers that focuses on attacking, Undead, Lycanthropes, Aberrations.
Anyway it´s just an idea hope it helps you guys
Thanks and keep up with the good work
PLS do the Witch Hunter!
There are others (such as sorcerer, swashbuckler and scout among others) but I think most of them would be redundant with the edition changes. Even the favored soul and hexblade are pretty borderline.
A Primordial influence on the elemental power source would be nice too, drawing on the Elemental Chaos and the Primordials as a cleric draws on faith and the gods or a warlock draws on ambient magic and his pact.
I've actually been thinking about this. Perhaps the Primal power source is going to have to do with that?
Then I'd like for them to go back and fill in gaps. Like a Martial Controller (not sure how you'd do that, but maybe the Swashbuckling-type character could do it) A Divine Controller (a priest or non-armored Cleric; take away the stuff Clerics are good at doing right in the middle of combat, make them squishy, and then give them new abilities) Add in a Divine Striker (no real ideas here, but maybe a guy called something like a "Consecrator"? or "Crusader?" or something) Then fill out Arcane with a Defender (SwordMage) and a Leader (Bard).
Later on, I'd like to see "Power Source" books, like a "Book of Shadow", that focuses on four new classes that use the Shadow power source, one for each type. Maybe a new race. New monsters, paragon paths, epic destinies, the works. Not quite like a campaign setting, but close. Then we could have an Oriental/Ki book, and another on the Elemental Chaos for the Elemental power source.
Barbarian
Druid
Bard
Sorcerer (although with the changes to the magic system, they seem too much like warlocks)
Monks (as Ki defenders)
Ninja (ki strikers)
Classes I think we already have with the PHB (they just need a few new powers)
Assassins (Rogue)
Scouts (ranger)
Samuria (Fighter)
Knight (Fighter)
2. Psion
3. Barbarian
Bard Leader
Sword mage Defender
Spell Thief Hybrid (More like rouge from x-men or peter from HEROS)
Divine
Inqusiter Striker
Favored Soul Controler
Martial
A controler
Elemental
????? I have no clue
Ki
Monk Striker
Ninja Controler
Samari Leader
Psi
Telapath Leader (Kill ardent take it's stuff)
Psycokanatic Controler
Soul Knife Striker (Kill lurk take it's stuff)
War Mind Defender (Psi warrior + war mind prestige class + psycometabolic)
Primal
Druid Striker
Barbrian Defender
Shawman Controler
Shadow
Necromancer Leader
Illusanist Controler
Hex Blade Defender
Shadow dancer Striker
I also want a Summoner, artafcer and a Courtasan/rake type classes. although not sure of powersource/role.
that makes 22 classes, and 8 in the phbI, so 30 altogather...I wonder how many years that would take
Psionic Handbook.
Psion (controller), Psychic Warrior (defender), Lurk (striker, PLEASE!!!), Ardent (leader). I liked the soulknife too.
Oriental Adventures. (+ kara tur).
Samuari (ki defender), ninja (ki striker), sohei (ki defender), wu jen (ki controler), shugenja (ki leader), monk (ki striker). Totem shaman (from Magic of Incarnum)
1001 nights / al-Qadim
Sha´ir (summon controller).
Others.
Binder (I love it!! PLEASE!!!)
Dread necromancer.Knigth (defender, diferent from paladin, fighter and warlord).
Dragon shaman and dragon fire adept.
Spellthief
Favoured souls like blood of divine creatures (like the same way socerer are descendent of dragons)
Swashbuckler
Spirit shaman.
Archivist (divine leader without armour).
Also, I want an unarmoured facepunching defender, stat. Ideally Martial, or at least with powers that could reasonably be houseruled into it without cutting the class in half.
Barbarian - Most likely Striker, though I'd love to see it in one of the other roles. If they could build it as a Controller I'd be very happy.
Bard - Leader, all the way.
Druid - Controller, hopefully. Druid is a nice place to give us a new controller. My hope is that they drop the "wildshape" element of it (perhaps split that off into its own class, or into Barbarian), and focus instead on nature abilities, and perhaps summoning. Summoning needs to be reintroduced somewhere, and the druid is a nice place to do it.
Monk - Defender, I hope. A defender monk could be different enough from the fighter by including "grappling" as a system of powers for the class, and having a few abilities that let them flat-out avoid damage. It's either that or Striker, and we've already got too many of those.
Psion - I'd like to see the class split up, like they are potentially doing with Wizard (they -should- be doing with Wizard, really). I'd go with...
> Constructor - Uh... I'm not sure how summoning fits into this, but I'd suggest Controller. If Druid doesn't get summoning, something like this should.
> Savant - Controller.
> Telepath - Leader; for its healing, it could have "Empathic Transfer". For the rest of its abilities, it might have things that deal psychic damage and inflict statuses that open the target up to the attacks of its teamates, or use "mind control" on allies and enemies alike, to grant extra actions to allies, and to use enemies' powers against them.
Psychic Warrior - Striker, I hope. Maybe Defender. Still, I'd like to see it as a Striker, if they make it at all, and have it essentially based more on the Soulknife than on the actual Psychic Warrior.
Anyway, if they don't have to reprint the rules text from phb1 like combat etc..they should include 4 power sources. Let something swing the customers way, because so far Wizards is the one reaping the most reward with their anemic release. ;)
Bel
MONK
Bard
Barbarian
I personally believe that all the other classes should be incorporated as paragon paths. Also I'd like to see some new classes. A barbarian could be redundant since it's so close to fighter class w/rage but, if they made it it a melee type of controller that'd be fun. Bards could simply be a more arcane form of a warlord (maybe that's suppose to be the new bard?)
Can someone explain to me why people keep listing Druids as a "primal" class? It seems to me like they would be "elemental", non?
I hop PHBII comes out soon... we're homebrewing a druid for one of my players right now...*sigh*
They've already said:
Sorcerer (Arcane Controller)
Monk (Not Striker)
Shaman
Artificer
Druid
for the future, prolly PHBII.
I'm hoping for
Soulknife
Psion
Cryomancer
Where did you find a list of power types
It is in the sidebar at the bottom of page 54 of the Player's Handbook.
Can someone explain to me why people keep listing Druids as a "primal" class?
This too is also in the sidebar at the bottom of page 54 of the Player's Handbook.
From the PHB: "For example, barbarians and druids draw on the primal forces of nature..."
So, Druid is the shape-shifter Where'd you find that out or is it just a conjecture?
It is in Wizards Presents: Races & Classes. Page 83 has the info about the druid being a shapechanging class.
I am guessing this is where the Hybrid role comes from. They talk about the druid being able to adapt and have multiple uses depending on what they shapechange into. Like a hawk for recon. I could see shapechanging into a tiger or something as a striker role, and maybe into a bear as more of a defender role. Sort of like offense vs. defense depending on what form you choose to take.
If this is true, I could see the possibility of a Summoning class falling into the Hybrid role as well. Depending on what you summon, you might be more of a striker or defender. Of course that sounds a lot like the Leader role, so who knows?
Bard is in development. A leader, although I'm not sure if it will be Arcane or Psionic.
Barbarian - Martial and or Primal, and def. a defender/striker. Although, you could make controller work-ish, but those would be some wonktastic powers.
Psion - duh. I'm thiking this will be the controller
Psi blade - duh. Striker version.
Psichic Warrior - Defender.
and if you include Bard as the leader, it wraps up rather nicely.
I'm thinking that the majority of prestige classes will become paragon paths. This will hopefully cut back on the volumes of cheese available.
I'm really not sure what they will do with Sorcerer. Arcane Striker I'm assuming, but if they present it as a controller, I'm going to have too look long and hard at the difference between it and Wiz.
I'm sure Favored Soul will make it's way there. Divine controller/Striker?
Primal and Shadow have alot of possibilities. As big of a fan of Asian culture as I am, I don't think well be seeing classes built along those lines for a while.
Let me ask a question. What would everyone perfer, classes for a complete power source and only two power sources per PHB? Or a few classes from each power source and three or four power sources per PHB?
Bel
Personally, if it is entitled a "Player's Handbook", then I want it to be tricked out with the player in mind. Seeing as the first one is a book for "Arcane, Divine, and Martial Heroes", any following PHBs should have several power sources as well. It's okay if they focus on one, but they need to dabble in several others. (even if it's like, a half-dozen classes from different power sources)
But if they only go for one power source, the book should focus ON that power source. Trying to make a PHBIII with ONLY the Shadow power source wouldn't be as cool as a "Power Source: Shadow" book that covers it on several levels. (that is, includes monsters and paths and items and locations and stuffs)
So yeah, if it's an official "Player's Handbook X", then it durn well better have several power sources.
Don't see the need for an illusionist class all by itself, though I would like to see more illusion, summoning, and necromancy stuff (particularly animating corpses ala minion master) for powers.
More powers for the already existing classes would be nice also.
More paragon and epic destiny paths to choose from would be nice, and I'd b e very, very , very happy to see wild magic return in some form (an simple and easy to run form though) ^_^
Maybe some more feats also (races are nice, though I don't see a need for more at the moment with PHB1 and MM1 covering them nicelyl) ?
At the moment I'd be happy with those things if they were in the PHB2.
Well, that's my 2 scents written in a short book :P
The Bard is either Primal (unlikely) or Arcane. The psi powered Bard is not happening. I had thought Halrik was the only one that thought everything could be psychotic, err, Psionic.
I only see three possible classes for Psi in the PHB2.
Telepath, Wilder, or Soulknife.
It also shows a Goliath Barbarian/Berserker and a female Shaman of an unknown race.
Here is the post.
It also shows a Goliath Barbarian/Berserker and a female Shaman of an unknown race.
She's most likely a Shifter.
She's most likely a Shifter.
why do you say that? Its hard to tell from that pic
why do you say that? Its hard to tell from that pic
Educated guess.
I believe the Sorcerer is going to be Primal powered. The "wild mage" like aspect that has been rumered would go along with this. The T- would be an Arcane class, along with the Bard.
The Illusionist is the question. Is it a lone Shadow class or pushed back to PHB3, leaving the poor gnome without the class he would prefer? This, it seems, is the big question, at least in my mind.
Well, Psionic will be introduced, it seems, in the Eberron Setting. Soulknife perhaps, possibly have an Artificer psi powered?
I believe the Sorcerer is going to be Primal powered. The "wild mage" like aspect that has been rumered would go along with this. The T- would be an Arcane class, along with the Bard.
The Illusionist is the question. Is it a lone Shadow class or pushed back to PHB3, leaving the poor gnome without the class he would prefer? This, it seems, is the big question, at least in my mind.
there will be no shadow classes in the PHB2
do we know its a leader and not perhaps a controller?
I don't care about the roles. I look at them as the designers tools, to provide a direction for the class and help with their design. As a player, I don't look at the role as a factor when choosing what to make for a character.
I am saying it again.
I don't care about the roles. I look at them as the designers tools, to provide a direction for the class and help with their design. As a player, I don't look at the role as a factor when choosing what to make for a character.
understood, but I am curious what everyone thinks. It does give you an idea as to where they are going without seeing the book
A Necromancer that focuses as much on curses, blood magic and bone magic as he does on undead. Possibly with a decent number of white magic (healing and restorative spells).
As mentioned before a sorcerer that focuses on bloodlines. A very neat concept that was expanded throughout 3.5 but would be better presented as core in 4E. Alternatively an Elemental power source Sorcerer that is in essence an elementalist (controller, striker?).
A class, be it the druid or something else, that is preferably a primal controller and focuses on spells dealing with the earth, plantlife, weather and animals.
We don't need a class of every role for every power source.Bard - Arcane Leader
Druid - Primal Controller
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Swashbuckler - Martial Defender (Yeah, I know it won't happen)
Anything else I could care less about.
As mentioned before a sorcerer that focuses on bloodlines. A very neat concept that was expanded throughout 3.5 but would be better presented as core in 4E. Alternatively an Elemental power source Sorcerer that is in essence an elementalist (controller, striker?).
have you seen the pathfinder stuff along these lines?
Barbarian Primal defender
Bard Arcane leader
Druid Primal striker/defender
Inquisitor Divine striker
Shaman Primal leader
Sorcerer Primal controller
Theurge Divine controller
Witch Primal striker
Bel
You are a cult-breaker and church investigator; at times you are called to confirm miracles, exorcise demons, and assassinate enemies of the faith. An agent working for the church, but outside of church law, you are faced with the burden of committing grave sins for the higher good. While the paladin fulfills the gods' will on the battlefield, you fight in the shadows, walking the line between faith and fear. Though your victories are unsung and your name unremembered, you are assured a place in paradise. Playing off the guilty conscience of your prey, you doggedly pursue them with intensive study exploiting their weaknesses and an uncanny sense of their whereabouts. Your quarry is haunted by the sense of being pursued, and often you are all but invisible until the hour of justice is at hand. At night you are haunted by the question: Who will absolve the absolver?
In 4e terms he'd be a divine striker.
One word.......NECROMANCERS!!~!!:D
Definitely, but I also want the dread necromancer back...it was the coolest. The bard definitely. I would also like to see the duskblade or dragon shaman.
Definitely, but I also want the dread necromancer back...it was the coolest. The bard definitely. I would also like to see the duskblade or dragon shaman.
I like the idea behind the dragon shaman. Its a different type of class
the duskblade may be covered by the upcoming swordmage
Elizabeth W.