What do you think about the theme of PHB3? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What do you think about the theme of PHB3?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ekio
May 15, 2009 14:35:24 I'm not sure if anyone else sees this, but there seems to be literary themes in the Player's Handbooks. Each of the 8 classes presented in each book have a binding theme, a subtle undertone that they all seem to share.

In Player's Handbook 1, each of the classes seemed to have the idea of earning their powers. The Martial characters trained their bodies and minds to achieve their physical prowess. The divine characters trained in churches and now venture out into the world to preach their gospel. The arcane characters either studied in academies or made elaborate deals with higher beings.

In Player's Handbook 2, the classes seemed to go the complete opposite. These classes were all about being feral, wild, and untamed. The Primal characters... come on. They're Primal! The Divine classes in this are either outcasts from their own churches (or act as an agent that the mainstream church doesn't want to acknowledge) or have a shard of their god inside them. The Arcane characters are all about going out and doing what they need to do. The bard? The sorcerer? Each of the classes in Player's Handbook 2 aren't characters that earned their powers but rather characters that were born with them.

In Player's Handbook 3... we could see... something? I'm not sure.

Discuss.
#2
ranadiel
May 15, 2009 15:37:47 Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm.
#3
Kalnaur
May 15, 2009 15:41:52 Well, we have disciplined power, and raw untamed power, I'd say next we'll get concentrated power.

What I mean is: The PHB had guys who trained, and in training they gained their power and they now use that power with a kind of discipline.

PHB 2 has classes that gained their powers, but in gaining them they also kind of lost the chains that may have tied them down, and they use their power wildly.

I figure PHB3, since Psionics is involved, will be about training yourself not in discipline, but in concentration of your power; i.e. classes that use their powers in a very concise, pointed manner.
#4
Dragoncat
May 15, 2009 17:04:30 That which lurks in the hearts of men?

Between Psi and Shadow, there seems to be a lot that touches on focusing inward. Shadow is all about mystery and darkness, and psionics are the self-made magic, be it the enlightenment or the dangers of the id.

Add to that a focus on the Far Realm and its insanity, and a lot of the PHB3 seems like it will focus inward.
#5
Grazel
May 15, 2009 18:12:13 While you can draw various conclusions about the classes to put a common spin on them in each PHB it breaks down when you consider a class is more an archetype and an individual member of the class may be different. Especially the martial classes since a fighter, ranger, warlord, or rogue may just have 'natural talent' that led them into their class and never had an ounce of formal training. The bard may have studied music and bardic magic in a guildhouse or college. The avenger and invoker may not be a church outcast depending on the gods involved and the campaign setting.

As another pointed out the themes seem to be more in relation to civilization levels. The first PH was mostly what we usually see as more civilized classes, ones found mostly in/from cities with the ranger being the most likely not to come from a populated area. PH2 looked more at the 'fringe' areas both in classes and races. These were less likely to dwell in population centers and fit a view of what most would see as 'primitive and untamed'.

PH3 as they have stated with the Wilden preview will look more at the growing theme of incursions from the Far Realm which has been there all along (beholders, illithid, aboleths) and expanded on in PH2 with the primal classes (which they've steered away from the primitive vs civilized motif of). What we're likely to see is classes and races that are tied to remote and isolated areas, not just of the World but the Feywild and other planes as well (Wilden for example).
#6
e105zeta
May 15, 2009 23:18:40
PH3 as they have stated with the Wilden preview will look more at the growing theme of incursions from the Far Realm which has been there all along (beholders, illithid, aboleths) and expanded on in PH2 with the primal classes (which they've steered away from the primitive vs civilized motif of). What we're likely to see is classes and races that are tied to remote and isolated areas, not just of the World but the Feywild and other planes as well (Wilden for example).

Seems like its not so much themes as how common the classes and races are in the world.

PHB1 Classes and Races - Common
PHB2 Classes and Races - Uncommon
PHB3 Classes and Races - Rare.
#7
Belorin
May 16, 2009 1:24:37
Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm.

I think you’re close R, but you didn’t quite go far enough. PHB 3 will be about the parallel planes, the Feywild and Shadowfell. The Wilden is a clue; there will be races relevant to both planes as well as classes utilizing the Psionic and Shadow power sources. One of the themes maybe resisting incursions from the Far Realm.

PHB 4 may deal with the fundamental planes, the Elemental Chaos and the Astral Sea, which may include a new power source or may revisit old power sources dealing with the wider environment.

Bel
#8
the_fan
May 16, 2009 6:36:37
Seems like its not so much themes as how common the classes and races are in the world.

PHB1 Classes and Races - Common
PHB2 Classes and Races - Uncommon
PHB3 Classes and Races - Rare.

Does that mean PHB4 will be foil-embossed?
#9
ranadiel
May 16, 2009 6:58:37
I think you’re close R, but you didn’t quite go far enough. PHB 3 will be about the parallel planes, the Feywild and Shadowfell. The Wilden is a clue; there will be races relevant to both planes as well as classes utilizing the Psionic and Shadow power sources. One of the themes maybe resisting incursions from the Far Realm.

PHB 4 may deal with the fundamental planes, the Elemental Chaos and the Astral Sea, which may include a new power source or may revisit old power sources dealing with the wider environment.

Bel

How can I just be close when that is what they said the theme would be?
#10
Belorin
May 16, 2009 7:13:46 Because I think there will be a larger unifyng theme for both planes, I'm just not sure what it will be. If the main theme of PHB 3 is fending off an incursion of the Far Realm, it seems kind of a narrow focus.

Bel
#11
kylarus
May 16, 2009 10:19:16 Theme of PHB1 was Lord of the Rings.

Theme of PHB2 was Born to Be Wild.

Theme of PHB3 will be Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.
#12
anubis_reynard
May 16, 2009 10:43:22
Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm.

Interesting... This might be a good place to insert the theorized "abberant" power source, then.

Wilder perhaps?
#13
e105zeta
May 16, 2009 13:54:47
Theme of PHB3 will be Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

No, you mean THE X-MEN!

Does that mean PHB4 will be foil-embossed?

Yes, there will only be one of every race and class in PHB4, so make sure to get your copy the earliest.
#14
Marandahir
May 16, 2009 14:25:00 I doubt they'll go so far as to focus on just the Parallel planes in PH3 and just the World Axis in PH4. Gith are residents of the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. Based off much speculation, and also off their appearance in the Monk Article's opening picture, it's to be assumed they're in the PH3. But yeah, it does looks like the focus is moving away from "The World" an into the other planes. This is a Good Thing, because it charts out more territory to utilise. Once the Shadow Power Source is detailed, and once Shadar-kai and Dark Ones get full write-ups in a hardcover, it shouldn't be hard at all to do an entire campaign in the Shadowfell. You can currently do that in the Feywild - Eladrin, Gnomes, Wilden (Elves and Drow too), as well as numerous Arcane and Primal classes fit in really well with that setting.

They have said though, that part of the story of PH3 will be the war between the Aberrants and everything else. This emphasises Psionics - and the Gith as well, especially since Monks are now Psionic (as they should be).

The monsters in MM2 (especially Starspawn), should help to draw upon some of these ideas too.
#15
Xeviat-DM
May 16, 2009 22:23:18
Gith are residents of the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. Based off much speculation, and also off their appearance in the Monk Article's opening picture, it's to be assumed they're in the PH3.

I thought they were Earth Genasi, by virtue of the markings on their face. Could be wrong, though.
#16
Grazel
May 16, 2009 23:17:19 That first illustration it looks a bit like a Deva actually, or an earth genasi. It's not a githzerai that's for sure. The one behind him could be an eladrin or elf or someone's concept of a shifter (based on the pointy ears) though possibly a githzerai.

The second illustration is pretty clearly a human.

But we are getting psionic and monks so I wouldn't be surprised if we do get githzerai. I don't think we'll see githyanki in a PH since they're kind of like the orc in 4e, pretty much painted as always an advesary. The drow are for the most part but because FR has a significant amount of good drow (and the redeemed dark elves that still get treated like drow for stats in 4e) they were given a PC writeup in the FRPG. We could possibly see githyanki written up in Dragon at some point though. If the githzerai aren't in PH3 I suspect they will also see a Dragon article.
#17
Belorin
May 17, 2009 1:17:34 Yeah, the first person is definitely an earth genasi, the second could be a githzerai due to the angular face. The only thing keeping me from being sure are the markings on his forehead or maybe I'm just going blind in my old age.
An Illumian, maybe? J/K

Bel
#18
Grazel
May 17, 2009 1:59:17
Yeah, the first person is definitely an earth genasi, the second could be a githzerai due to the angular face. The only thing keeping me from being sure are the markings on his forehead or maybe I'm just going blind in my old age.
An Illumian, maybe? J/K

Bel

Well they could just be tattoos, don't have to be inherit to their race. Also a lot of the githyanki and githzerai art I've seen has included facial markings (and never clear if it's just part of their skin or a tattoo or war paint or something similar).
#19
celticmutt
May 17, 2009 9:47:17 The first picture in the monk article has an Earth Genasi in front, Githzerai behind him, and the other three really aren't distinct enough to tell for certain. But that second person is without a doubt a Gith. She looks just like the MM1 pics.
#20
salla
May 17, 2009 11:38:29 I think the 'themes' of the PHBs have been entirely coincidental and/or things people are reading into them that weren't intentional on the parts of the designers.

Sometimes, stuff just happens. There isn't a pattern to everything.
#21
Grazel
May 17, 2009 14:14:29
I think the 'themes' of the PHBs have been entirely coincidental and/or things people are reading into them that weren't intentional on the parts of the designers.

Sometimes, stuff just happens. There isn't a pattern to everything.

True though for PH3 we have a dev talking about the Wilden as 'continuing to explore the theme of incursions from the Far Realm that we started with the primal power source in PH2'.

So while there may not be a theme that unifies the entirety of each book there are definitely themes within them and between them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ekio May 15, 2009 14:35:24	I'm not sure if anyone else sees this, but there seems to be literary themes in the Player's Handbooks. Each of the 8 classes presented in each book have a binding theme, a subtle undertone that they all seem to share. In Player's Handbook 1, each of the classes seemed to have the idea of earning their powers. The Martial characters trained their bodies and minds to achieve their physical prowess. The divine characters trained in churches and now venture out into the world to preach their gospel. The arcane characters either studied in academies or made elaborate deals with higher beings. In Player's Handbook 2, the classes seemed to go the complete opposite. These classes were all about being feral, wild, and untamed. The Primal characters... come on. They're Primal! The Divine classes in this are either outcasts from their own churches (or act as an agent that the mainstream church doesn't want to acknowledge) or have a shard of their god inside them. The Arcane characters are all about going out and doing what they need to do. The bard? The sorcerer? Each of the classes in Player's Handbook 2 aren't characters that earned their powers but rather characters that were born with them. In Player's Handbook 3... we could see... something? I'm not sure. Discuss.
#2 ranadiel May 15, 2009 15:37:47	Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm.
#3 Kalnaur May 15, 2009 15:41:52	Well, we have disciplined power, and raw untamed power, I'd say next we'll get concentrated power. What I mean is: The PHB had guys who trained, and in training they gained their power and they now use that power with a kind of discipline. PHB 2 has classes that gained their powers, but in gaining them they also kind of lost the chains that may have tied them down, and they use their power wildly. I figure PHB3, since Psionics is involved, will be about training yourself not in discipline, but in concentration of your power; i.e. classes that use their powers in a very concise, pointed manner.
#4 Dragoncat May 15, 2009 17:04:30	That which lurks in the hearts of men? Between Psi and Shadow, there seems to be a lot that touches on focusing inward. Shadow is all about mystery and darkness, and psionics are the self-made magic, be it the enlightenment or the dangers of the id. Add to that a focus on the Far Realm and its insanity, and a lot of the PHB3 seems like it will focus inward.
#5 Grazel May 15, 2009 18:12:13	While you can draw various conclusions about the classes to put a common spin on them in each PHB it breaks down when you consider a class is more an archetype and an individual member of the class may be different. Especially the martial classes since a fighter, ranger, warlord, or rogue may just have 'natural talent' that led them into their class and never had an ounce of formal training. The bard may have studied music and bardic magic in a guildhouse or college. The avenger and invoker may not be a church outcast depending on the gods involved and the campaign setting. As another pointed out the themes seem to be more in relation to civilization levels. The first PH was mostly what we usually see as more civilized classes, ones found mostly in/from cities with the ranger being the most likely not to come from a populated area. PH2 looked more at the 'fringe' areas both in classes and races. These were less likely to dwell in population centers and fit a view of what most would see as 'primitive and untamed'. PH3 as they have stated with the Wilden preview will look more at the growing theme of incursions from the Far Realm which has been there all along (beholders, illithid, aboleths) and expanded on in PH2 with the primal classes (which they've steered away from the primitive vs civilized motif of). What we're likely to see is classes and races that are tied to remote and isolated areas, not just of the World but the Feywild and other planes as well (Wilden for example).
#6 e105zeta May 15, 2009 23:18:40	PH3 as they have stated with the Wilden preview will look more at the growing theme of incursions from the Far Realm which has been there all along (beholders, illithid, aboleths) and expanded on in PH2 with the primal classes (which they've steered away from the primitive vs civilized motif of). What we're likely to see is classes and races that are tied to remote and isolated areas, not just of the World but the Feywild and other planes as well (Wilden for example). Seems like its not so much themes as how common the classes and races are in the world. PHB1 Classes and Races - Common PHB2 Classes and Races - Uncommon PHB3 Classes and Races - Rare.
#7 Belorin May 16, 2009 1:24:37	Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm. I think you’re close R, but you didn’t quite go far enough. PHB 3 will be about the parallel planes, the Feywild and Shadowfell. The Wilden is a clue; there will be races relevant to both planes as well as classes utilizing the Psionic and Shadow power sources. One of the themes maybe resisting incursions from the Far Realm. PHB 4 may deal with the fundamental planes, the Elemental Chaos and the Astral Sea, which may include a new power source or may revisit old power sources dealing with the wider environment. Bel
#8 the_fan May 16, 2009 6:36:37	Seems like its not so much themes as how common the classes and races are in the world. PHB1 Classes and Races - Common PHB2 Classes and Races - Uncommon PHB3 Classes and Races - Rare. Does that mean PHB4 will be foil-embossed?
#9 ranadiel May 16, 2009 6:58:37	I think you’re close R, but you didn’t quite go far enough. PHB 3 will be about the parallel planes, the Feywild and Shadowfell. The Wilden is a clue; there will be races relevant to both planes as well as classes utilizing the Psionic and Shadow power sources. One of the themes maybe resisting incursions from the Far Realm. PHB 4 may deal with the fundamental planes, the Elemental Chaos and the Astral Sea, which may include a new power source or may revisit old power sources dealing with the wider environment. Bel How can I just be close when that is what they said the theme would be?
#10 Belorin May 16, 2009 7:13:46	Because I think there will be a larger unifyng theme for both planes, I'm just not sure what it will be. If the main theme of PHB 3 is fending off an incursion of the Far Realm, it seems kind of a narrow focus. Bel
#11 kylarus May 16, 2009 10:19:16	Theme of PHB1 was Lord of the Rings. Theme of PHB2 was Born to Be Wild. Theme of PHB3 will be Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.
#12 anubis_reynard May 16, 2009 10:43:22	Well while there have been themes with the books, I don't think they are what you said they are. For PHB1 the theme was more of, "Scions of the Lost Empires" and PHB2 was more of "Existing on the Fringes of Society". They've said that the theme for PHB3 is going to be something to do with resisting the intrusion from the Far Realm. Interesting... This might be a good place to insert the theorized "abberant" power source, then. Wilder perhaps?
#13 e105zeta May 16, 2009 13:54:47	Theme of PHB3 will be Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting. No, you mean THE X-MEN! Does that mean PHB4 will be foil-embossed? Yes, there will only be one of every race and class in PHB4, so make sure to get your copy the earliest.
#14 Marandahir May 16, 2009 14:25:00	I doubt they'll go so far as to focus on just the Parallel planes in PH3 and just the World Axis in PH4. Gith are residents of the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. Based off much speculation, and also off their appearance in the Monk Article's opening picture, it's to be assumed they're in the PH3. But yeah, it does looks like the focus is moving away from "The World" an into the other planes. This is a Good Thing, because it charts out more territory to utilise. Once the Shadow Power Source is detailed, and once Shadar-kai and Dark Ones get full write-ups in a hardcover, it shouldn't be hard at all to do an entire campaign in the Shadowfell. You can currently do that in the Feywild - Eladrin, Gnomes, Wilden (Elves and Drow too), as well as numerous Arcane and Primal classes fit in really well with that setting. They have said though, that part of the story of PH3 will be the war between the Aberrants and everything else. This emphasises Psionics - and the Gith as well, especially since Monks are now Psionic (as they should be). The monsters in MM2 (especially Starspawn), should help to draw upon some of these ideas too.
#15 Xeviat-DM May 16, 2009 22:23:18	Gith are residents of the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. Based off much speculation, and also off their appearance in the Monk Article's opening picture, it's to be assumed they're in the PH3. I thought they were Earth Genasi, by virtue of the markings on their face. Could be wrong, though.
#16 Grazel May 16, 2009 23:17:19	That first illustration it looks a bit like a Deva actually, or an earth genasi. It's not a githzerai that's for sure. The one behind him could be an eladrin or elf or someone's concept of a shifter (based on the pointy ears) though possibly a githzerai. The second illustration is pretty clearly a human. But we are getting psionic and monks so I wouldn't be surprised if we do get githzerai. I don't think we'll see githyanki in a PH since they're kind of like the orc in 4e, pretty much painted as always an advesary. The drow are for the most part but because FR has a significant amount of good drow (and the redeemed dark elves that still get treated like drow for stats in 4e) they were given a PC writeup in the FRPG. We could possibly see githyanki written up in Dragon at some point though. If the githzerai aren't in PH3 I suspect they will also see a Dragon article.
#17 Belorin May 17, 2009 1:17:34	Yeah, the first person is definitely an earth genasi, the second could be a githzerai due to the angular face. The only thing keeping me from being sure are the markings on his forehead or maybe I'm just going blind in my old age. An Illumian, maybe? J/K Bel
#18 Grazel May 17, 2009 1:59:17	Yeah, the first person is definitely an earth genasi, the second could be a githzerai due to the angular face. The only thing keeping me from being sure are the markings on his forehead or maybe I'm just going blind in my old age. An Illumian, maybe? J/K Bel Well they could just be tattoos, don't have to be inherit to their race. Also a lot of the githyanki and githzerai art I've seen has included facial markings (and never clear if it's just part of their skin or a tattoo or war paint or something similar).
#19 celticmutt May 17, 2009 9:47:17	The first picture in the monk article has an Earth Genasi in front, Githzerai behind him, and the other three really aren't distinct enough to tell for certain. But that second person is without a doubt a Gith. She looks just like the MM1 pics.
#20 salla May 17, 2009 11:38:29	I think the 'themes' of the PHBs have been entirely coincidental and/or things people are reading into them that weren't intentional on the parts of the designers. Sometimes, stuff just happens. There isn't a pattern to everything.
#21 Grazel May 17, 2009 14:14:29	I think the 'themes' of the PHBs have been entirely coincidental and/or things people are reading into them that weren't intentional on the parts of the designers. Sometimes, stuff just happens. There isn't a pattern to everything. True though for PH3 we have a dev talking about the Wilden as 'continuing to explore the theme of incursions from the Far Realm that we started with the primal power source in PH2'. So while there may not be a theme that unifies the entirety of each book there are definitely themes within them and between them.