What happened to the Nentir Vale Gazeteer? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What happened to the Nentir Vale Gazeteer?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kelvor_Ravenstar
Nov 10, 2010 10:58:26 The Nentir Vale Gazetteer is the product I was most looking forward to for 2011, but its dropped off the product release schedule, and has disappeared from Amazon as well.

Has the release date been pushed back? Has the book been cancelled entirely?

If it has indeed been cancelled, I hope that WotC puts the content into upcoming Dragon or Dungeon articles. I really enjoyed the recent Legacy of Nerath article in Dragon, and I want more articles that detail the D&D Core World.
Mostly I want more maps for the regions surrounding the Nentir Vale, and short descriptions of the cities and adventure locations like what was in the original description in the DMG. The Conquest of Nerath Board Game with its giant map of the entire empire of Nerath can't come soon enough!!!
#2
Marandahir
Nov 10, 2010 13:58:01 DM's Kit has some nice details on Nentir Vale. Especially in that it details Harkenwold and all it's villages in the adventure.

Presumably, Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale, we'll get details on the various adventure sites, since we're seeing all the characters and organisations at work in the Vale that could be sources of adventure and threats.

It seems to me that the Gazateer turned out to be mostly reprinting information they're spreading out amongst the Red Box, HotFL, HotFK, DM's Kit, Monster Vaults, published adventures and books, and Dungon/Dragon magazines.

Remember, Winterhaven was detailed in Keep on the Shadowfell; Fallcrest in DMG1 and DM's Kit, Harkenwold in DM's Kit, Hammerfast in Hammerfast. The only community that really still needs detailing is Nenlast.   And each of the racial entries in the HotFL and HotFK, while not focusing on the Nentir Vale locales, does discuss the culture of the races that live amonst the Vale (though I'd still like to know where I can find Dragonborn in the Nentir Vale – there's no Dragonborn NPC in Fallcrest to my knowledge, nor in Winterhaven, Hammerfast, or Harkenwold. Hmm.)

The other parts of the Vale are adventure sites and holed up with monsters, so they'll be focuses of the second Monster Vault almost certainly.

As for races, some interesting points:

Humans are spread throughout the Vale. Half-Elves and Half-Orcs will congregate amongst humans and on the borders where their other kin live – in the Harkenwold, likely, since the Woodsinger Tribe of Elves live there for Half-elves, and probably in Winterhaven and the Foreign Ward of Hammerfast for Half-orcs, because of the orc presence in the areas. A couple Tieflings Houses have shops in Fallcrest, and in other communities as well. Elves live either in the towns and villages or in the Harken Forest. Dwarves live in the towns and villages and especially their city of Hammerfast. Drow presumably live in the Underdark, but there's an entrance in the Temple of Yellow Skulls – though, considering that's connected with the Abyssal Plague novel series… it might not be the safest entrance. There's probably another entrance to the shallows elsewhere. Eladrin associated with the Court of Thorns may appear in Nenlast, since the faerie court sometime shifts over on the shores of Lake Nen.   Halflings boat up and down the Nentir, and are especially present in Fallcrest. Where are Dragonborn, though?

As for the Nerath article, it didn't talk much about the Nentir Vale because the heart of Nerath is much farther south. The Nentir Vale is a borderland of the old Empire.
#3
Harn_Winterfell
Nov 10, 2010 14:03:49
The Miser’s Pit: A mad dwarf named Goldrun Coinkeeper discovered this deep shaft hidden in the Cairngorm Peaks. A narrow stair at the edge of the shaft descends at least 500 feet through the earth, leading eventually into the vast expanse of the Underdark.

This is another entrance to and from the Underdark that has been mentioned.

As for the Dragonborn, pg 242 of Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms goes into a little bit of detail on the communities of the Dragonborn. It seems to indicate that small communities exist primarily around old Arkhosian structures of importance or fallen areas of both the Arkhosia and Nerath empires in scattered and thinly populated groups.

As for Timbervale from "Orcs of Stonefang Pass" there is no mention of any races as there little mention of the town particulars.

Vor Rukoth has some mention of the group "Arkhosia's Last" to indicate at least some Dragonborn residing in and/or near this old city of the Bael Turath empire.

Also Sunderpeak Temple in the Cairngrom: Sunderpeak Temple: Nestled in the wild Cairngorm Peaks, the temple houses those who have devoted themselves to lives of contemplation and good works. The folk of the temple include servants of many of the the good deities including Pelor, the sun god; Bahamut, the god of justice; and Melora, goddess of civilization.
The faithful of Sunderpeak have come to be known as learned healers, sage advisors, and stalwart defenders of justice. Unfortunately, contact with the temple has recently broken off and those who ventured forth have not returned.

There may or may not been a community of Dragonborn here, though there is no mention of particular races. The presence of a followers of Bahamut suggests a strong possibility of, at least, a few.

From the Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn. "So few dragonborn survive in the world, and they are so scattered, that any given dragonborn might well be the only member of the race known to some number of people."

and from Wizard's Presents: Races and Classes: "Today, dragonborn are a race of wandering mercenaries, soldiers, sellswords, and adventurers.....Dragonborn make their own way in the world, and most spend little time in the company of their own kind."

Even in the family unit: "Males and females don't remain together long, and go their separate ways when their offspring reaches three years of age. One parrent assumes responsibility for the child and raises him or her from that time forward. Dragonborn families are therefore small: one parent and one child who travel, work, and play together while the parent teaches the youngster what it means to be a dragonborn."

As rare as they appear to be, I would think that the arrival of one to a frontier region would cause a bit of stir. As more information becomes flushed out we'll see if the original concept of the Dragonborn remains one of rarity or if they sadly become as plentiful as goblins.
#4
Marandahir
Nov 11, 2010 6:34:11 Thanks Harn!

Good catches! I don't have HotFK yet (it's not officially out), but I had forgotten about some of these locales or pieces of information, and some (like Sunderpeak Temple), I don't think I've ever seen before (what book's that Temple from?).

I agree then; Dragonborn probably aren't talked about much because there -isn't- a Dragonborn community in the Nentir Vale. There aren't any Eladrin NPCs mentioned in the DM's Kit, though they do draw an obvious source for Eladrin to have an origin. But considering the Dragonborn racial background, I can see them in a sort of similar situation with little to no NPCs of their race being represented. There's a reason that Eladrin weren't in the Red Box – I was even surprised that the race made it in the HotFL rather than the HotFK (I would have placed it there, and moved something like Half-Elf to the HotFL. Oh well).

The centres of Nerath, Bael Turath, and Arkhosia are presumably far from the Nentir Vale, however, so that's a strike against them being in groups in the Nentir. Nerath's centre may be the closest, however – somewhere far to the south of the Vale, but presumably the King's Road goes all the way to the Capital.
#5
Harn_Winterfell
Nov 11, 2010 14:45:24 I hope that WotC will eventually get around to bundling and releasing their "Game Day" releases to those of us unfortunate enough to not have the opportunity to participate or have connections to obtain them. Heck if they'd bundle them and sell them I'd buy them...or even dare I say it? Make it a DDi feature after the 'event' has played out.

Anyway, Sunderpeak Temple is community.wizards.com/dungeonsanddragons... a bit of compilation going on there.   Sunderstone Temple was I guess a module from Red Box Game Day.

There is a Dragonborn mercenary from the lore that has been shared in the above thread at the keep by the name of Kesk.

Then there is the mention of cities to the south and names sprinkled and hidden in much of the books, articles dealing with the PoL campaign which just adds to the desire to find more and more info.   The newest Dragon article indicates the old capital of Nerath is a gnoll occupied fortress of nightmares.
Legacy of Nerath.

The module: Vor Rukoth is shown as being on the eastern side of the Hammerfast mountains.

Io'vanthor to the south is shown to have dragonborn followers of Tiamat but the city is held by the forces of evil. Dragon 369

Dragon 165 also deals with a ruined dragonborn city.

I need to organize my library and set up a better method of tracking, I'm sure there is more out there I've skimmed over and haven't kept in my old brain.
#6
Harn_Winterfell
Nov 11, 2010 15:05:54 There is certainly an abundance of PoL setting information scattered all about that I'm fairly certain would sell if compiled into either a boxed set or hard/soft bound book form. I know I'm not the only one who is rabidly interested in the setting.
#7
Marandahir
Nov 11, 2010 15:32:45 I'll have to reread alot of these old material, because I don't remember any references to Vor Rukoth being east of the Dawnforge Mountains, and though I've read all those articles, it's been a while for some of them, and I don't remember them placing themselves in reference to the Vale.

That said, I need to reorganise a lot of articles in my folders to a PoLand Campaign Setting folder, because, while I have particular folders for FR, Eb, and DS, it's been a bit uncategorised for the core setting.

#8
Harn_Winterfell
Nov 11, 2010 15:47:33 Page 5 of Vor Rukoth.
Ecology of the Dragonborn Issue 365 of Dragon mentions that in large settlements one may find an entire ward of dragonborn of various clans.

We'll have to compare and contrast when we get our folders set.
#9
Style75
Nov 14, 2010 6:06:42 I like the idea of fleshing out the Nentir Vale with lots of detail (the gazeteer was #1 on my must buy list) but I dislike the idea of trying to map out the PoL world. IMHO the original 4e concept was excellent; establish the parameters of the world, give people a base of operation to get them started (nentir vale) but beyond that it's what the players and DM create. It was intended that modules such as Vor Rukoth should be a location that could be dropped anywhere in the world.

If WotC wants to create a new campaign setting, they should just do it. But to try to define in great detail the PoL setting feels like it taking away from the mystery of that world.
#10
Marandahir
Nov 17, 2010 20:53:35 The Gazeteer is mentioned in the Rules Compendium.

My guess is that it's still alive, but they pushed it back to a point where they don't want to list it anywhere anymore.

Or it could be like how Ki was listed in the PH1. Yeah.
#11
ranadiel
Nov 18, 2010 4:47:20
The Gazeteer is mentioned in the Rules Compendium.

My guess is that it's still alive, but they pushed it back to a point where they don't want to list it anywhere anymore.

Or it could be like how Ki was listed in the PH1. Yeah.

Don't forget that Ki was also listed in Open Grave. You can apparently create undead using a non-existent power source. :P
#12
Marandahir
Nov 18, 2010 6:02:35 Hey hey, Ki exists in the game, though. Monks and Assassins (though not Executioners) use it. It just isn't a power-source but something almost like one, but not quite.
#13
thax
Nov 21, 2010 20:42:52 Like what Shadow is gonna be?
#14
Marandahir
Nov 22, 2010 10:57:07
Like what Shadow is gonna be?

Very funny, thaX.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kelvor_Ravenstar Nov 10, 2010 10:58:26	The Nentir Vale Gazetteer is the product I was most looking forward to for 2011, but its dropped off the product release schedule, and has disappeared from Amazon as well. Has the release date been pushed back? Has the book been cancelled entirely? If it has indeed been cancelled, I hope that WotC puts the content into upcoming Dragon or Dungeon articles. I really enjoyed the recent Legacy of Nerath article in Dragon, and I want more articles that detail the D&D Core World. Mostly I want more maps for the regions surrounding the Nentir Vale, and short descriptions of the cities and adventure locations like what was in the original description in the DMG. The Conquest of Nerath Board Game with its giant map of the entire empire of Nerath can't come soon enough!!!
#2 Marandahir Nov 10, 2010 13:58:01	DM's Kit has some nice details on Nentir Vale. Especially in that it details Harkenwold and all it's villages in the adventure. Presumably, Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale, we'll get details on the various adventure sites, since we're seeing all the characters and organisations at work in the Vale that could be sources of adventure and threats. It seems to me that the Gazateer turned out to be mostly reprinting information they're spreading out amongst the Red Box, HotFL, HotFK, DM's Kit, Monster Vaults, published adventures and books, and Dungon/Dragon magazines. Remember, Winterhaven was detailed in Keep on the Shadowfell; Fallcrest in DMG1 and DM's Kit, Harkenwold in DM's Kit, Hammerfast in Hammerfast. The only community that really still needs detailing is Nenlast. And each of the racial entries in the HotFL and HotFK, while not focusing on the Nentir Vale locales, does discuss the culture of the races that live amonst the Vale (though I'd still like to know where I can find Dragonborn in the Nentir Vale – there's no Dragonborn NPC in Fallcrest to my knowledge, nor in Winterhaven, Hammerfast, or Harkenwold. Hmm.) The other parts of the Vale are adventure sites and holed up with monsters, so they'll be focuses of the second Monster Vault almost certainly. As for races, some interesting points: Humans are spread throughout the Vale. Half-Elves and Half-Orcs will congregate amongst humans and on the borders where their other kin live – in the Harkenwold, likely, since the Woodsinger Tribe of Elves live there for Half-elves, and probably in Winterhaven and the Foreign Ward of Hammerfast for Half-orcs, because of the orc presence in the areas. A couple Tieflings Houses have shops in Fallcrest, and in other communities as well. Elves live either in the towns and villages or in the Harken Forest. Dwarves live in the towns and villages and especially their city of Hammerfast. Drow presumably live in the Underdark, but there's an entrance in the Temple of Yellow Skulls – though, considering that's connected with the Abyssal Plague novel series… it might not be the safest entrance. There's probably another entrance to the shallows elsewhere. Eladrin associated with the Court of Thorns may appear in Nenlast, since the faerie court sometime shifts over on the shores of Lake Nen. Halflings boat up and down the Nentir, and are especially present in Fallcrest. Where are Dragonborn, though? As for the Nerath article, it didn't talk much about the Nentir Vale because the heart of Nerath is much farther south. The Nentir Vale is a borderland of the old Empire.
#3 Harn_Winterfell Nov 10, 2010 14:03:49	The Miser’s Pit: A mad dwarf named Goldrun Coinkeeper discovered this deep shaft hidden in the Cairngorm Peaks. A narrow stair at the edge of the shaft descends at least 500 feet through the earth, leading eventually into the vast expanse of the Underdark. This is another entrance to and from the Underdark that has been mentioned. As for the Dragonborn, pg 242 of Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms goes into a little bit of detail on the communities of the Dragonborn. It seems to indicate that small communities exist primarily around old Arkhosian structures of importance or fallen areas of both the Arkhosia and Nerath empires in scattered and thinly populated groups. As for Timbervale from "Orcs of Stonefang Pass" there is no mention of any races as there little mention of the town particulars. Vor Rukoth has some mention of the group "Arkhosia's Last" to indicate at least some Dragonborn residing in and/or near this old city of the Bael Turath empire. Also Sunderpeak Temple in the Cairngrom: Sunderpeak Temple: Nestled in the wild Cairngorm Peaks, the temple houses those who have devoted themselves to lives of contemplation and good works. The folk of the temple include servants of many of the the good deities including Pelor, the sun god; Bahamut, the god of justice; and Melora, goddess of civilization. The faithful of Sunderpeak have come to be known as learned healers, sage advisors, and stalwart defenders of justice. Unfortunately, contact with the temple has recently broken off and those who ventured forth have not returned. There may or may not been a community of Dragonborn here, though there is no mention of particular races. The presence of a followers of Bahamut suggests a strong possibility of, at least, a few. From the Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn. "So few dragonborn survive in the world, and they are so scattered, that any given dragonborn might well be the only member of the race known to some number of people." and from Wizard's Presents: Races and Classes: "Today, dragonborn are a race of wandering mercenaries, soldiers, sellswords, and adventurers.....Dragonborn make their own way in the world, and most spend little time in the company of their own kind." Even in the family unit: "Males and females don't remain together long, and go their separate ways when their offspring reaches three years of age. One parrent assumes responsibility for the child and raises him or her from that time forward. Dragonborn families are therefore small: one parent and one child who travel, work, and play together while the parent teaches the youngster what it means to be a dragonborn." As rare as they appear to be, I would think that the arrival of one to a frontier region would cause a bit of stir. As more information becomes flushed out we'll see if the original concept of the Dragonborn remains one of rarity or if they sadly become as plentiful as goblins.
#4 Marandahir Nov 11, 2010 6:34:11	Thanks Harn! Good catches! I don't have HotFK yet (it's not officially out), but I had forgotten about some of these locales or pieces of information, and some (like Sunderpeak Temple), I don't think I've ever seen before (what book's that Temple from?). I agree then; Dragonborn probably aren't talked about much because there -isn't- a Dragonborn community in the Nentir Vale. There aren't any Eladrin NPCs mentioned in the DM's Kit, though they do draw an obvious source for Eladrin to have an origin. But considering the Dragonborn racial background, I can see them in a sort of similar situation with little to no NPCs of their race being represented. There's a reason that Eladrin weren't in the Red Box – I was even surprised that the race made it in the HotFL rather than the HotFK (I would have placed it there, and moved something like Half-Elf to the HotFL. Oh well). The centres of Nerath, Bael Turath, and Arkhosia are presumably far from the Nentir Vale, however, so that's a strike against them being in groups in the Nentir. Nerath's centre may be the closest, however – somewhere far to the south of the Vale, but presumably the King's Road goes all the way to the Capital.
#5 Harn_Winterfell Nov 11, 2010 14:45:24	I hope that WotC will eventually get around to bundling and releasing their "Game Day" releases to those of us unfortunate enough to not have the opportunity to participate or have connections to obtain them. Heck if they'd bundle them and sell them I'd buy them...or even dare I say it? Make it a DDi feature after the 'event' has played out. Anyway, Sunderpeak Temple is community.wizards.com/dungeonsanddragons... a bit of compilation going on there. Sunderstone Temple was I guess a module from Red Box Game Day. There is a Dragonborn mercenary from the lore that has been shared in the above thread at the keep by the name of Kesk. Then there is the mention of cities to the south and names sprinkled and hidden in much of the books, articles dealing with the PoL campaign which just adds to the desire to find more and more info. The newest Dragon article indicates the old capital of Nerath is a gnoll occupied fortress of nightmares. Legacy of Nerath. The module: Vor Rukoth is shown as being on the eastern side of the Hammerfast mountains. Io'vanthor to the south is shown to have dragonborn followers of Tiamat but the city is held by the forces of evil. Dragon 369 Dragon 165 also deals with a ruined dragonborn city. I need to organize my library and set up a better method of tracking, I'm sure there is more out there I've skimmed over and haven't kept in my old brain.
#6 Harn_Winterfell Nov 11, 2010 15:05:54	There is certainly an abundance of PoL setting information scattered all about that I'm fairly certain would sell if compiled into either a boxed set or hard/soft bound book form. I know I'm not the only one who is rabidly interested in the setting.
#7 Marandahir Nov 11, 2010 15:32:45	I'll have to reread alot of these old material, because I don't remember any references to Vor Rukoth being east of the Dawnforge Mountains, and though I've read all those articles, it's been a while for some of them, and I don't remember them placing themselves in reference to the Vale. That said, I need to reorganise a lot of articles in my folders to a PoLand Campaign Setting folder, because, while I have particular folders for FR, Eb, and DS, it's been a bit uncategorised for the core setting.
#8 Harn_Winterfell Nov 11, 2010 15:47:33	Page 5 of Vor Rukoth. Ecology of the Dragonborn Issue 365 of Dragon mentions that in large settlements one may find an entire ward of dragonborn of various clans. We'll have to compare and contrast when we get our folders set.
#9 Style75 Nov 14, 2010 6:06:42	I like the idea of fleshing out the Nentir Vale with lots of detail (the gazeteer was #1 on my must buy list) but I dislike the idea of trying to map out the PoL world. IMHO the original 4e concept was excellent; establish the parameters of the world, give people a base of operation to get them started (nentir vale) but beyond that it's what the players and DM create. It was intended that modules such as Vor Rukoth should be a location that could be dropped anywhere in the world. If WotC wants to create a new campaign setting, they should just do it. But to try to define in great detail the PoL setting feels like it taking away from the mystery of that world.
#10 Marandahir Nov 17, 2010 20:53:35	The Gazeteer is mentioned in the Rules Compendium. My guess is that it's still alive, but they pushed it back to a point where they don't want to list it anywhere anymore. Or it could be like how Ki was listed in the PH1. Yeah.
#11 ranadiel Nov 18, 2010 4:47:20	The Gazeteer is mentioned in the Rules Compendium. My guess is that it's still alive, but they pushed it back to a point where they don't want to list it anywhere anymore. Or it could be like how Ki was listed in the PH1. Yeah. Don't forget that Ki was also listed in Open Grave. You can apparently create undead using a non-existent power source. :P
#12 Marandahir Nov 18, 2010 6:02:35	Hey hey, Ki exists in the game, though. Monks and Assassins (though not Executioners) use it. It just isn't a power-source but something almost like one, but not quite.
#13 thax Nov 21, 2010 20:42:52	Like what Shadow is gonna be?
#14 Marandahir Nov 22, 2010 10:57:07	Like what Shadow is gonna be? Very funny, thaX.