What must be completed before 4e ends? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What must be completed before 4e ends?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Style75
Jan 02, 2012 8:24:42 For argument's sake, lets assume for a moment that WotC is working on 5e. (please do not turn this thread into a debate on 5e) This would mean that there is a definite endpoint on new official 4e material. Again, let's assume that 5e is a year away and WotC has 12 months to wrap up 4e.

Question: What absolutely must be done for 4e to be considered "finished" so that it can happily sit on the shelf and be played by future generations.

Has this point already been reached?
#2
pluisjen
Jan 02, 2012 8:27:33 I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Most things I'd be interested in buying are actually inspirations, but they're not neccesarily bound by rules. There's a lot of stuff available and it's easy enough to make my own when it's not there...

So yeah, I don't think there's anything really missing, even if there's plenty of stuff that can still be done.
#3
Style75
Jan 02, 2012 8:54:37 Personally I'd like to see a reprint of PHB1. I know it's probably not going to happen, but I do feel that an updated version of the book that includes all of the Class Compendium rewrites and rules revisions would go a long way towards ensuring that 4e is a game that can easily be played 30 years from now without having to reference a dozen different Dragon articles.
#4
svendj
Jan 02, 2012 9:49:15 Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore.

So, to answer your question: free access to all DDI tools (character builder, compendium, monster builder, Dragon and Dungeon magazine content). But not before 5th Edition has been published, obv.

With regards to actual content (mechanical or otherwise), I second Pluisjen. Even if content production for 4E would stop tomorrow, there would be enough material to keep playing for years and years.
#5
excalainen
Jan 02, 2012 11:06:11 We still need power books for neglected classes. I see only the martial classes, wizard, cleric, warlock, druid, and maybe some others complete. Especially PHB3 classes need more material.

DMG3 focusing on epic tier is needed. Many DMs have serious problems in challenging the characters at that tier.

More errata is also needed as there are many known problems that need fixing.

Otherwise the edition is pretty complete. More adventures and campaign settings would always be welcome.
#6
Seeker95
Jan 02, 2012 11:17:11
So yeah, I don't think there's anything really missing, even if there's plenty of stuff that can still be done.

This best represents my view. 4e has given me everything I need, and most of what I want. (I am not sure it could give me the rest of what I want.)
#7
domn
Jan 02, 2012 11:25:39
DMG3 focusing on epic tier is needed. Many DMs have serious problems in challenging the characters at that tier.

+1

#8
Mand12
Jan 02, 2012 11:57:09 Nothing, and everything.

If they added nothing more, it'd still be a great system.

But what they could add is limitless, and it would be awesome.
#9
Style75
Jan 02, 2012 12:09:02
Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore.

Interesting. Do you think that if WotC were to remove the 4e digital tools when 5e comes out that it would kill the edition outright?

Can 4e only only survive into the future if digital tools are available?
#10
AbdulAlhazred
Jan 02, 2012 12:26:37
Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore.

Interesting. Do you think that if WotC were to remove the 4e digital tools when 5e comes out that it would kill the edition outright?

Can 4e only only survive into the future if digital tools are available?

Why WOULD they stop providing the 4e tools? It is just files on a server somewhere that presumably would be supporting 5e DDI anyway. You subscribe, you get access to both. Seems pretty much fine to me. Notice that WotC still serves up all the 3.5 content they have on their server, they never took any of that down.

There are tons of cool things that COULD be done with 4e still. Honestly I don't really know why people would want to have to buy all the same stuff all over again for 5e instead of getting actual new interesting cool 4e stuff that builds on what we have already.

There's not really a lot of crunch that 4e NEEDS at this point. There could be a whole bunch of epic monsters though, adventures, better tools, more articles for different settings and cool things to do with the game. Heck, AD&D barely scratched the surface in 20+ years.
#11
Style75
Jan 02, 2012 12:43:58 I agree that there is little crunch that 4e needs, and therein lies the problem for 4e. If the edition is "complete", is there any financial reason for WotC to continue to support it?

I think the problem with D&D (and any RPG) lies in the old business model of selling individual products (usually books) to make money from D&D. The products that always make the most money are player crunch books but they're the products that bloat any edition and make it susceptible to breakage. When an edition becomes bloated and broken a lot of fans are turned off. The products that are least likely to break the game are DM products that generally don't sell well: adventures and campaign settings/fluff books. Look at all the backlash towards Dragon as they scale down the number of crunch heavy player articles and increase the number of "Backdrop" style articles.

Contrast this old model to the online only subscription model. As long as people are willing to keep paying a monthly subscription to play the game, WotC might feel less pressure to keep cranking out player oriented products that only bloat the game. They can focus on new and improved tools and DM material to keep adventures rolling along.

In fact, I think that's exactly what is happening and is the reason why player content has dropped off considerably in the last year.

It may seem strange, but the online only subscription model may in fact save 4e from the late edition bloat that doomed previous editions and perhaps allow it survive well into the future.
#12
Akoo
Jan 02, 2012 12:44:16 Took the words right out of my mouth abdul.
I can't really think of anything that is necessary. The edition is pretty solid.
I would like to see Unearthed Arcana, like 3.5's. That book was great and provided tons of ways to mix up play (sanity pts, heeeeeeck yeah!)
#13
Garthanos
Jan 02, 2012 12:47:11
Took the words right out of my mouth abdul.
I can't really think of anything that is necessary. The edition is pretty solid.
I would like to see Unearthed Arcana, like 3.5's. That book was great and provided tons of ways to mix up play (sanity pts, heeeeeeck yeah!)

I never played 3.x (one game session doesnt count) and yet I have pulled one of the UA rules (Players make all the rolls? I think it was called) in to fourth edition rather successfully.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Style75 Jan 02, 2012 8:24:42	For argument's sake, lets assume for a moment that WotC is working on 5e. (please do not turn this thread into a debate on 5e) This would mean that there is a definite endpoint on new official 4e material. Again, let's assume that 5e is a year away and WotC has 12 months to wrap up 4e. Question: What absolutely must be done for 4e to be considered "finished" so that it can happily sit on the shelf and be played by future generations. Has this point already been reached?
#2 pluisjen Jan 02, 2012 8:27:33	I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Most things I'd be interested in buying are actually inspirations, but they're not neccesarily bound by rules. There's a lot of stuff available and it's easy enough to make my own when it's not there... So yeah, I don't think there's anything really missing, even if there's plenty of stuff that can still be done.
#3 Style75 Jan 02, 2012 8:54:37	Personally I'd like to see a reprint of PHB1. I know it's probably not going to happen, but I do feel that an updated version of the book that includes all of the Class Compendium rewrites and rules revisions would go a long way towards ensuring that 4e is a game that can easily be played 30 years from now without having to reference a dozen different Dragon articles.
#4 svendj Jan 02, 2012 9:49:15	Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore. So, to answer your question: free access to all DDI tools (character builder, compendium, monster builder, Dragon and Dungeon magazine content). But not before 5th Edition has been published, obv. With regards to actual content (mechanical or otherwise), I second Pluisjen. Even if content production for 4E would stop tomorrow, there would be enough material to keep playing for years and years.
#5 excalainen Jan 02, 2012 11:06:11	We still need power books for neglected classes. I see only the martial classes, wizard, cleric, warlock, druid, and maybe some others complete. Especially PHB3 classes need more material. DMG3 focusing on epic tier is needed. Many DMs have serious problems in challenging the characters at that tier. More errata is also needed as there are many known problems that need fixing. Otherwise the edition is pretty complete. More adventures and campaign settings would always be welcome.
#6 Seeker95 Jan 02, 2012 11:17:11	So yeah, I don't think there's anything really missing, even if there's plenty of stuff that can still be done. This best represents my view. 4e has given me everything I need, and most of what I want. (I am not sure it could give me the rest of what I want.)
#7 domn Jan 02, 2012 11:25:39	DMG3 focusing on epic tier is needed. Many DMs have serious problems in challenging the characters at that tier. +1
#8 Mand12 Jan 02, 2012 11:57:09	Nothing, and everything. If they added nothing more, it'd still be a great system. But what they could add is limitless, and it would be awesome.
#9 Style75 Jan 02, 2012 12:09:02	Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore. Interesting. Do you think that if WotC were to remove the 4e digital tools when 5e comes out that it would kill the edition outright? Can 4e only only survive into the future if digital tools are available?
#10 AbdulAlhazred Jan 02, 2012 12:26:37	Since I assume that a lot of people use DDI (aka the Builder and the Compendium) to play 4th Edition, I actually think that nobody would bother with the edition anymore if those tools weren't supported anymore. Interesting. Do you think that if WotC were to remove the 4e digital tools when 5e comes out that it would kill the edition outright? Can 4e only only survive into the future if digital tools are available? Why WOULD they stop providing the 4e tools? It is just files on a server somewhere that presumably would be supporting 5e DDI anyway. You subscribe, you get access to both. Seems pretty much fine to me. Notice that WotC still serves up all the 3.5 content they have on their server, they never took any of that down. There are tons of cool things that COULD be done with 4e still. Honestly I don't really know why people would want to have to buy all the same stuff all over again for 5e instead of getting actual new interesting cool 4e stuff that builds on what we have already. There's not really a lot of crunch that 4e NEEDS at this point. There could be a whole bunch of epic monsters though, adventures, better tools, more articles for different settings and cool things to do with the game. Heck, AD&D barely scratched the surface in 20+ years.
#11 Style75 Jan 02, 2012 12:43:58	I agree that there is little crunch that 4e needs, and therein lies the problem for 4e. If the edition is "complete", is there any financial reason for WotC to continue to support it? I think the problem with D&D (and any RPG) lies in the old business model of selling individual products (usually books) to make money from D&D. The products that always make the most money are player crunch books but they're the products that bloat any edition and make it susceptible to breakage. When an edition becomes bloated and broken a lot of fans are turned off. The products that are least likely to break the game are DM products that generally don't sell well: adventures and campaign settings/fluff books. Look at all the backlash towards Dragon as they scale down the number of crunch heavy player articles and increase the number of "Backdrop" style articles. Contrast this old model to the online only subscription model. As long as people are willing to keep paying a monthly subscription to play the game, WotC might feel less pressure to keep cranking out player oriented products that only bloat the game. They can focus on new and improved tools and DM material to keep adventures rolling along. In fact, I think that's exactly what is happening and is the reason why player content has dropped off considerably in the last year. It may seem strange, but the online only subscription model may in fact save 4e from the late edition bloat that doomed previous editions and perhaps allow it survive well into the future.
#12 Akoo Jan 02, 2012 12:44:16	Took the words right out of my mouth abdul. I can't really think of anything that is necessary. The edition is pretty solid. I would like to see Unearthed Arcana, like 3.5's. That book was great and provided tons of ways to mix up play (sanity pts, heeeeeeck yeah!)
#13 Garthanos Jan 02, 2012 12:47:11	Took the words right out of my mouth abdul. I can't really think of anything that is necessary. The edition is pretty solid. I would like to see Unearthed Arcana, like 3.5's. That book was great and provided tons of ways to mix up play (sanity pts, heeeeeeck yeah!) I never played 3.x (one game session doesnt count) and yet I have pulled one of the UA rules (Players make all the rolls? I think it was called) in to fourth edition rather successfully.