What sorts of mechanics would you like to see?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Dragoncat

Mar 29, 2010 16:20:32
We speak volumes about the flavor we would like to see, of classes and power sources, roads to power and thematic appeal, of the mantles the character wears that personify his abilities, the fluff that is spun into the great tapestry of our tales. But little is said, specifically, about the mechanical crunch behind the actors, the stagehands and props that allow the game to run smoothly and surely. Although less glamorous, these too can be works of art, functionally brilliant concepts and ideas that allow the translation of the metaphysical story into the quantitative crunch of rolling dice and scribbling script.

Absurd early morning attempts at poetics aside, what mechanics would you like to see?

Because we talk a lot about the classes and races, the fluff and mythos, but rarely do we get down to brass tacks and talk crunchy bits. Yet the advances in crunch have resulted in incredibly awesome results; the druid's embodiment of transformation through the elegant wild shape, the refined rules that allow the shaman to summon spirits from the void, the mastery of movement inherent to the monk's full discipline. With these and others in mind, I thought I'd start a little conversation about mechanics you would like to see in the future, thoughts and ideas that would improve the game by numbers.

Current mechanics rewritten or brand new territory, minor changes or sweeping alterations, what would you like to see added to the crunch of the game? Share your thoughts, comment on the ideas of others, tinker away at the gears of the game, the engine that drives roleplaying to new heights.

If I may start...

Random Thoughts on Mounted Combat, Psychic Duels, and Combination Chains

1) Mounted Combat. Aside from the awkwardness of riding a horse in the dungeon, the biggest hurdle faced by this age old concept is a simple flaw; being useful when not atop the mount. Yet the notion stretches across multiple power sources and classes (the valiant paladin on his steed, the fighter atop his charger, the swift horse archer ranger, the druid's ten ton dire bear named Honeybun, etc), and is such a common fantasy trope that it demands attention. If a power only works when mounted, the character won't function properly anywhere else, but if it is a generic power, the mount is just an accessory, thus, we must find some balance between the two.

But what if we used Full Disciplines?

The FD mechanic is brilliant, dividing a single power into two sets of actions, each with their own rules, action requirements, and properties. With a single change, the notion translates soundly; create powers that have one function regardless of the situation, and another one that is contingent upon being mounted.

So let's take your basic joust attack. The standard action is a normal strike, on par with other damaging options of its class, albeit down perhaps a single notch. At the same time, the power uses the Full Discipline style to grant an additional ability; as a move action, if you are mounted, you can make a certain movement (a line directly towards the target, most likely), that grants the standard action power the ability to knock prone its target. Used together, you have a single, fluid joust, striking the target to unhorse it (or running down someone foolish enough to not bring a horse).

And the FD mechanism doesn't stop there. Let us say you wanted an alchemist power to throw bombs. Too equipment based to be a normal power, but what if it included a FD rider that said "Requirement; must be holding an alchemical item. Spend a move action to prime the bomb/adjust the mixture/do whatever, and if you use the standard action attack in the same round, the power does X", where X is an appropriate boost? The normal power will work for any throwing item, but it reaches its full potential when used with its proper payload, thus providing a nifty and flavorful ability for a specific subset of individuals.

By dividing the action and its thematic requirement, you get a contingent power that is functional when the character isn't properly equipped or readied, but also functions perfectly toward its intended purpose.


2) Psychic Combat. Aye, I can feel the sudden relapse of repressed memories of horror, but hear me out. It is quite true that psychic combat was a royal flop in previous editions, but the concept is very flavorful and thematic, and if it could be pulled off well, it would be an awesome edition to the newest power source on the market. And we can do so with the current rules by stealing from the Invoker and the monster manual, as well as spinning a few yarns and fudging a bit.

-Take the summoning rules, you conjure a monster right next to the enemy's space.
-The summon has line of effect to the target, the target has line of effect to the summon.
-The summon does NOT have LoE to anything else, and nothing else has LoE to the summon.
-All creatures, except the target, can move through the summon's space, and the summon can move through their spaces.
-The target can interact with the rest of the world as normal (to prevent instant brain lock + backstab).
-Now we have an ethereal creature that exists only in the target's mind. He can fight it, it can hurt him, but to the rest of the mechanical world, it isn't real.
-To represent the Psychic Duel, the telepath who created the nightmare uses his own actions (just like the current summons do) to boost his horror's attack upon the target's brain.
-If the target can fight off the nightmare, the duel is ended, and the psychic might suffer a backlash. But if the target is consumed by the horror, he dies within his own mind, and crumples to a heap without ever suffering a wound.

In short, it's basically a summoner. Except the summon only occurs in relation to a single target, thereby being immune to its allies but also unable to hurt them, and acts as a means by which the psion can use further actions to invade his target's cranium, yet still provides the enemy with the chance to fight back. You might need minor changes (the reason the summon occupies a space is intended to let the creature run, but you might have problems if the enemy has blast or burst attacks, thus striking the summon and your allies at the same time. Will need to think on that, and judge whether it is fairly flavorful to have the running element, or if a purely ethereal, always there opponent would be a better option.)


3) Combination Chains. The great trope of the fighting and action genres, the ability to chain several sequential strikes into more powerful forms is a magnificent theme, albeit a daunting one to crunch down into numbers. Yet a surprising newcomer to the fray presents exactly what we need to invoke such a character. The Runepriest.

The Rune State, a single counter that changes a character's power based on an arbitrary features, is precisely what a combination chain requires. And it just needs a simple change; rather than having the State be switched on the fly by the character, we make it an effect of the powers themselves.

Let us say, for a moment, that you had a Martial class, the wandering-swordsman-dashing-swashbuckler-pure-samurai-blade-disciple-sword-saint-knight-errant-wuxia-Find-Me-A-Better-Word-For-Guy-With-One-Weapon-In-English archetype.

His attacks are based around a single Combat State, representing the ebb and flow of battle as he sets up his opponents. We'll give him five states, stealing from and slightly changing the Tome of Battle schools; Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, Setting Sun, Tiger Claw, and Iron Heart, which nicely fit a mold of swift air, resilient earth, flowing water, flashing fire, and supreme void, if you prefer a Five Rings vibe. Anyway, the point is simple; you have a State which varies round to round, and modifies and changes based upon your powers.

So let's say I have Generic At Will 1. It does its normal damage thing, and also has a clause that says "If you are in Tiger Claw, deals extra damage, and you are now in Stone Dragon. If you are in Setting Sun, shifts the target, and you are now in Diamond Mind."

Generic At Will 2 might be similar, except it grants a defense bonus for Stone Dragon and changes it to Setting Sun in anticipation of an enemy strike, or prepares you for opportunity attacks if you are in Diamond Mind with a sinister ferocity that shifts you to Tiger Claw.

Meanwhile, Iron Heart or Void might be far more difficult to obtain, and achieving that perfect setup might be the conduit of your daily-power-equivalent abilities, requiring more setup but incredibly powerful when unleashed. So you might have encounter powers that grant you the Void state if you are in a certain setup and land a specific attack in a certain way (If you are in Air and attack a foe granting combat advantage, your swift action against the unbalanced opponent grants you a moment of pure perfection, etc). Of course, it might be easier to balance with normal dailies, and that's a perfectly valid style as well.

The result is a different kind of fighting style, one where you pick your powers based not only on their individual abilities, but also how your entire build will chain together, allowing you to reach maximum potential by precise control over the flow of combat until you release your ultimate technique. Yet it isn't particularly restrictive; fall out of form, and you can quickly recover by switching to another link in the chain.  A simpler version is equally viable; adrenaline based on a climbing counter could work like power points, accumulated over time and spent to boost lesser attacks.  A flipping state like the current Rune variety would also work nicely for a Shadow class that dives between reality and its shadow double, slipping from shade to shade and dancing through the darkness.
#2

greatfrito

Mar 29, 2010 16:38:37
What kind of Mechanics?

Ones with wrenches!  Laughing
#3

grehnhewe

Mar 29, 2010 18:34:11
  The mechanics I am interested in seeing do not relate as much to individual character specifics or powers, but they are rules I am interested seeing as related to large scale campaign events, environments and warfare.

  I would like to see some rules for seige engines: catapults, trebuchet and ballistas.  I would like these rules to demonstrate specifically how they would be used against creatures, strongholds, ships and airships.

  I would also like some more detailed vehicle rules for wagons, boats, ships and airships etc.

  I would also like some rules for large scale warfare.  Whereupon player characters might take charge of a troop or brigade in a huge battle. 

  I would also like to see some more detailed rules regarding environmental hazards, in particular from weather.  Some previous editions had some excellent rules for this, and systems to randomly determine weather dependent upon the climate/environment type.
#4

ceiling90

Mar 30, 2010 0:08:48
See... I had for a while two idea for change in mechanics or rather new ones.

First is the idea of a Focus Mechanic:
This is a mechanic that sort of brings back the Full Round Action, which is kinda scary. But hear me out.
So basically, you take a power - Generic At-Will x - This power does some damage to one creature; but it has a trigger "attack hits" on that trigger, you spend a minor action and the target then is prone or something. You've pretty much spend a standard and a minor in a single action. It's a lot closer to power points, but you can't double augment, or change out the at-will itself for a better at-will, the class will instead have the standard power options. Only At-wills, and Encounters would have that, and Dailies will not have that effect.
The mechanic is meant to show that concenration thing, when making an action, adding that little oomph or whatever.

The other idea is for Chains:
My idea for chains would involve a lot of special lines... and the use of your action economy, much like the Focus Mechanic. It always starts with an At-will. The at-will power is a simple, if very accurate power. Then the encounters and the dailies are what really seal the idea of a combo. In this class or mechanics... is that the encounters have two action costs, Standard and Minor. The action cost is determined by how you plan to use it. Let's say you hit Combo At-will Z, it's a simple and not very powerful at-will, but at least accurate. Then each encounter has a line like "Special: if you hit with Combo At-Will Z, this power is triggered as a Minor action and has a -1 penalty to attack". Then dailies would be standard or Move, with a line like "Special: If you hit with Combo Encounter Power Z, this power is triggered as a Move action and has a -1 penalty to attack". It brings about the same feeling of playing a fighting game, where as each successive strike is stronger, but less accurate and the feel of stringing along a real combo. This does make a single turn very intensive...

Those were some of the ideas I had floating along for awhile... Man I hope wizards doesn't read this.
#5

chanter_hound

Mar 30, 2010 12:03:27
I'm currently working on some powers for  a mounted combat character.

What I end up doing is doing the "fighter" thing where you have an indentation for "mounted", gaining special abilities and such for riding on a mount. Thus it allows powers to work and not make the person useless if they arn't on the mount, just slightly weaker.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#6

Ravenmancer

Mar 30, 2010 13:32:51
I'd really like to see some kind of pet-based striker class.  Not just a striker with a pet build tacked on.

I want a class whose striker extra damage mechanic is intrinsically tied to having a pet out.
#7

Bluewyrm

Mar 31, 2010 8:20:31
I'd like to see a mechanic for "minion summoning".  I like how Summons work now, I think they are great, but I think it would be neat if a single power could summon multiple creatures, and a good way I think to do this without it being over-powered is to have the summons be considered "Friendly minions".  Sort of like how Summon Monster 3 could sumon 1d4+1 monsters from Summon Monster 1.  Put a cap on the number of minions controllable based on the classes secondary (or primary) trait.  When the monsters die, the controller should take not lose a healing surge.

I think this mechanic would work well for a Necromancer class.  An at-will attack that summons a zombie minion would be quite interesting.  Make the zombie only take actions when the Necromancer spends some of his action economy.  It would be a great way to simulate the "mindless hordes" that a Necromancer would control.
#8

Kaviyd3

Mar 31, 2010 8:45:28
Let's see -- They already did an alternate take on encounter powers with the psionic classes.  The way they wrote it up in PHB3 suggests that they may be considering something similar for daily and utility powers.

For mounted combat -- maybe the new "theme" mechanic in Dark Sun can be stretched to account for characters with mounts.  If the DM gives all of the player characters a choice of mount related themes, then the ability is properly siloed -- nobody has to give up a non-mounted combat ability to gain the ability to be more effective with a mount. 

Finally, I would love to see them do something "impossible".  When the first PHB came out, summoning powers and "pet" class features were carefully avoided -- but now they are an intrinsic part of the game.  How about flying races, large races, or other races that do not fit the current mold of playable races?  Or just other types of "pets"?
#9

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Mar 31, 2010 11:39:30
My wishlist:
  • More mounted combat.  Especially powers and the like.

  • The return of incarnum.  Or something like essentia, where you can shift resources around without using them up.  Psionics and the power point system gives me hope.

  • Weapons of Legacy.

  • options for "that guy with all the gadgets."

  • Psionic combat.

  • Illusions that don't deal damage.

  • Explosive Runes.

#10

chanter_hound

Mar 31, 2010 12:47:23
My wishlist:
  • More mounted combat.  Especially powers and the like.




Well I'm actually trying to do that right now, check out my thread in the homebrew. My plan is to work out various sort of word bugs and other things then pitch it to WotC as an eventual artical.