While I really enjoy 4e, I can't wait for the new Eberron. With the changes that took place in Toril between 3e and 4e, my mind goes crazy with what could be going on in Khorvaire.
I wonder if the Mournland will still be around, and if so what state will it be in.
What has the Lord of Blades been up to? I figure his fate directly correlates to the Mournland.
I almost hope that since 3.5 Eberron started at the end of the Last War, that 4e will start on the verge of another.
And shamefully, I am pulling out some old Iron Kingdoms books to see if I can have House Cannith start developing firearms. Air pirates with cannons? Yes please.
So I pose the question. What do you hope to see in 4e Eberron?
I was hoping for a little more. I guess I will have to come up with something.
*runs back to the drawing board*
There is a part in the book where it tells the DM that if he/she wants (for stroytelling purposes) to make a nondragonmark race gain a dragonmark they are "allowed" to do so. This concept also goes to a gnome or half-elf all of a sudden gaining a Mark of Making. These pcs/Npcs would be the biggest sensation in all of Eberron, and possibly the biggest threat it has ever seen.
Think about how House Cannith would feel about the goblins gaining a Mark of Making or the gnomes and half-elves. Their House may lose lots of income if this were to happen, or give the goblins something that will stabilize their new nation and make them a new economic powerhouse.
Eberron to me is about having lots of ideas and using what works for your game. Lore is not meant to be 100% canon as FR has made its Lore to be. Its novels are not canon. It is not 100% a "shared world" like FR. It is meant to have ideas ignored if you do not like them. It is meant to be played around with so a DM and players can create their own sandbox. I know other settings can be like this but EB was meant to be this way IMO. Lots of ideas and outlines so you the gamer can fill in the blanks.
*brainstorms furiously*
After playing Iron Kingdoms for quite a while, I think with proper work guns can be a part of the D&D setting. Eberron seems a perfect fit as well.
I might start with some airships with cannons, and then later a secret organization that uses on-shot rifles and pistols.
Warforged - Full race writeup in Dragon
Shifter - Only covered in MM for 2 subtypes. But race is coming in PHB2.
Artificer - Playtest Article in Dragon
Adventure's Guide to Eberron covers most the setting.
Besides the lack of coverage for Dragon marks and Psionics we've got 75% of the game.
I am a big fan of the Eberron setting, it really got me in to DMing more than any other D&D setting.
While I really enjoy 4e, I can't wait for the new Eberron. With the changes that took place in Toril between 3e and 4e, my mind goes crazy with what could be going on in Khorvaire.
I wonder if the Mournland will still be around, and if so what state will it be in.
What has the Lord of Blades been up to? I figure his fate directly correlates to the Mournland.
As mentioned before, there won't be any changes on this scale. All the organizations, NPCs, and plots that existed before will be there. No time advancement.
Dragonborn, Eladrin, and Tieflings will not be sudden appearances. Eladrin have been a part of the setting, as the primary civilization on the plane of Thelanis, which has close ties to the material plane. Tieflings are likewise found on Khorvaire (the land was once covered ruled by Demons/Devils/Fiends and there are still the Demon Wastes), and will simply get more attention. Dragonborn are a natural extension of the age when Dragons ruled Eberron and battled fiends, and the islands of Seren and Argonessen. I don't know what they're going to do with Changelings (In my own Eberron games, it's just a slang term for Dopplegangers).
They'll expand on their role in the world, rather than treat them as newcomers.
Mechanics-wise, the designer has stated that 4E's magic is actually a pretty good fit for how he envisioned Eberron's magic, particularly the Rituals. Expect to see more of them. Dragonmarks are also getting looked at so they're more useful for the adventurer.
I believe they're also aiming for some clarification. Probably things like trying to fix the Silver Flame's common portrayal as a proxy for Inquisition Roman Catholics, the role of Dragonmarked Houses, and the nature of the deities. Speaking of which...
I almost hope that since 3.5 Eberron started at the end of the Last War, that 4e will start on the verge of another.
This is something I distinctly remember Kieth constantly reminding us of. The War is not really over. The 2 year period of peace that exists now is tenuous at best, and more akin to a temporary cease fire, and it only happened because people were afraid of the possibility of a second Day of Mourning. Everyone is expecting another conflict to begin at some point, and are trying to get all their ducks in a row. They just don't know what's going to set it off.
Something else that's likely to receive more emphasis in the new books.
And shamefully, I am pulling out some old Iron Kingdoms books to see if I can have House Cannith start developing firearms. Air pirates with cannons? Yes please.
Alas, it has been stated that we're not going to see official firearms published for Eberron.
The theme is that they do things with magic to achieve many of our technological achievements- sort of like how the Flintstones do everything with rocks and animals. That's why Airships, the Lightning Rail, and other vessels use magical elementals instead of gas and steam engines. They use magical rituals to "grow" Warforged rather than make them out of clockwork parts and pistons.
This hasn't kept people from homebrewing their own firearms though. Check out the boards for some options.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1151287
So I pose the question. What do you hope to see in 4e Eberron?
Better dragonmarks. When I was designing my "Lost" campaign for Xen'Drik (loosely based on the ABC's Lost series), I was disappointed with 3E's dragonmarks. I'm hoping they get spiffed up a bit to be a little more valuable.
Beyond that, I'm not too up-to-speed on Eberron. As long as it has Warforged, Shifters, The Silver Flame, Xen'drik, Airships, and the Five Nations, I'm pretty much good to go.
Better dragonmarks. When I was designing my "Lost" campaign for Xen'Drik (loosely based on the ABC's Lost series)...
Consider this stolen.
Think about how House Cannith would feel about the goblins gaining a Mark of Making or the gnomes and half-elves. Their House may lose lots of income if this were to happen, or give the goblins something that will stabilize their new nation and make them a new economic powerhouse.
QUOTE]
This got my wheels spinning at about 30,000 rpms. What if goblins started gaining the mark of making? Would house cannith try to silence this issue by secretely killing all "offenders"? Better yet what if the PCs found out that there are goblins with the mark being imprisoned by House Cannith and forced to create items for the house. Slave labor and hideing that their mark isn't so special anymore.
On the subject of the time skip, I recall it was rumored there was going to be a 2 year time skip to put it at year 1000 and a bunch of people threw a fit, and then it was announced that this would not happen.
It's very disheartening to think that the uninformed, knee-jerk reaction of a bunch of disgruntled whiners on the Interweb are able to significantly affect the direction of a product line. I would hope that WotC would depend more on proper forms of market research and the talents and creativity of their game designers. If they had advanced the story line, we as DM's would have had the choice to use the advanced timeline or the original timeline. We would have gotten more.
I really hope that the product team came to the informed, independent conclusion that it would be a better product to convert and flesh out the setting in place, and then made the announcement to shut the h8ters up for a while.
So I hope some thought has gone into paragon and epic tier adventuring for Eberron.. There has to be somewhere for them to go, which shouldn't just be Argonesson.
I also wonder how Raise Dead will be treated. Perhaps House Jorasco has commandeered all Raise Dead books, but it would be difficult to justify this situation lasting too long - all it takes is one thief. What's more likely is that raising from the dead is seen as socially dubious. PCs can use it, but they risk tarnishing their reputation.
It's very disheartening to think that the uninformed, knee-jerk reaction of a bunch of disgruntled whiners on the Interweb are able to significantly affect the direction of a product line. I would hope that WotC would depend more on proper forms of market research and the talents and creativity of their game designers. If they had advanced the story line, we as DM's would have had the choice to use the advanced timeline or the original timeline. We would have gotten more.
I really hope that the product team came to the informed, independent conclusion that it would be a better product to convert and flesh out the setting in place, and then made the announcement to shut the h8ters up for a while.
If you want to advance the timeline, there's nothing stopping you.
It's very disheartening to think that the uninformed, knee-jerk reaction of a bunch of disgruntled whiners on the Interweb are able to significantly affect the direction of a product line. I would hope that WotC would depend more on proper forms of market research and the talents and creativity of their game designers. If they had advanced the story line, we as DM's would have had the choice to use the advanced timeline or the original timeline. We would have gotten more.
I really hope that the product team came to the informed, independent conclusion that it would be a better product to convert and flesh out the setting in place, and then made the announcement to shut the h8ters up for a while.
Way to be rude...
I was one of those people who argued against the time-skip, and I did it for a large number of reasons other than "knee-jerk h8ting". What is more, it seems the designers agreed with us. The stated reason why the time-skip was nixed was because someone high-up at WotC (I forget exactly who), said that settings should to be toolboxes, not stories, and the entire point of the time-skip was for some people at WotC to force their stories down our throats.
Anyways, I am also really looking forward to 4E Eberron. I am really hoping that, more than anything else, they work a bit to restore Eberron to its "blank slate" status, filled with mysteries and dangling hooks. A few too many of the later splatbooks for the setting damaged that idea.
I am also really looking forward to how they handle Dragonmarks. I imagine that it will work into the 4E multiclass system somehow, but I am not sure about the exact implementation. I am certain that there will be Dragonmark Paragon Paths, though, and I am looking forward to them.
As for flavor material, my biggest hope is that they actually do something with the Sovereign Host religion, so that the Silver Flame isn't stuck with bearing all the "evil religion" plots, adventure hooks, and stereotypes. As a whole, the Sovereign Host religion was pretty much totally ignored in every 3E supplement for the setting, and that needs to change. I wouldn't mind seeing other groups and organizations (like every Dragonmarked House other than Cannith) getting a similar boost in prominence.
It will be interesting to see how 4e Eberron handles levels. One of the major themes of original Eberron was that single-levelled PCs - what we'd call 'heroic' these days - could be the big cheese. NPCs higher than 10th level were very rare, and anything with epic level (20+) was virtually unknown.
It seems to me that this concept has actually been ported from Ebrron to core D&D. The basic setting already assumes that Heroic tier adventures are significant individuals and that Epic characters come around once a generation at beast, or at least that's been my take on it.
I also wonder how Raise Dead will be treated. Perhaps House Jorasco has commandeered all Raise Dead books, but it would be difficult to justify this situation lasting too long - all it takes is one thief. What's more likely is that raising from the dead is seen as socially dubious. PCs can use it, but they risk tarnishing their reputation.
This doesn't seem to be an issue. It will probably work the same way it always did. Heroes can learn and cast raise dead, but few NPCs know how to and fewer still are willing to.
I was one of those people who argued against the time-skip, and I did it for a large number of reasons other than "knee-jerk h8ting". What is more, it seems the designers agreed with us. The stated reason why the time-skip was nixed was because someone high-up at WotC (I forget exactly who), said that settings should to be toolboxes, not stories, and the entire point of the time-skip was for some people at WotC to force their stories down our throats.
Agreed. Forgotten realms mostly only got such an overhaul to bring it more in line with the style of 4E, as it was rather steeped in the older traditions (including reality altering high level magic, proliferation of high level NPCs, and over involved deities). Furthermore, it had over time become so mapped out that their really wasn't much new or exciting to see or do. Eberron conversely is still a young and vibrant setting. Many of the design decisions made in creating it are echoed in basic 4E philosophies, so less had to be done to bring it in line. Lastly, where as FR has had a long history of minor plot advancements with each new book release, Eberron was designed to be starting point, new books might flesh out areas of the map, but the story would always remain entirely in the hands of the DM.
Anyways, I am also really looking forward to 4E Eberron. I am really hoping that, more than anything else, they work a bit to restore Eberron to its "blank slate" status, filled with mysteries and dangling hooks. A few too many of the later splatbooks for the setting damaged that idea.
I never saw it as a problem. The various Eberron supplements during 3.5 fleshed out details and provided convenient hooks from which to launch adventures, but their was always plenty of unexplained mysteries to explore. WotC, or at least Kieth Baker, has said that nothing about 4E Eberron will invalidate what was true in 3.5. The new Eberron is supposed to only mechanical up date. That being said their is no way the can cram all the details of the various 3.5 supplements into the new campaign guide, so for those only using the 4E material the setting will be returned to a more virgin state.
It will be interesting to see how 4e Eberron handles levels. One of the major themes of original Eberron was that single-levelled PCs - what we'd call 'heroic' these days - could be the big cheese. NPCs higher than 10th level were very rare, and anything with epic level (20+) was virtually unknown.
So I hope some thought has gone into paragon and epic tier adventuring for Eberron.. There has to be somewhere for them to go, which shouldn't just be Argonesson.
Singular NPCs of the player races with levels higher than 10 were rare(r), but not non-existant it was expected that all the NPCs with higher levels were ones that PCs were going to be dealing with (like Mordrain Fleshweaver, the Lord of Blades, or Lady Vol).
Also, there are many, many threats in the game that are higher than 10th level. Droaam and its monstrous inhabitants, The Dragon Below and Daelkyr, Xen'drik's dangers, the Blood of Vol, the Demon Wastes and the Lords of Dust, Argonessen and the Chamber, Sarlonna and the Dreaming Dark, the Mournlands and its inhabitants. Valenar and its Tairandal warriors. To say nothing of the monsters and ruins lying across the lands. War itself returning and the possibility of a second Day of Mourning are also huge threats.
I also wonder how Raise Dead will be treated. Perhaps House Jorasco has commandeered all Raise Dead books, but it would be difficult to justify this situation lasting too long - all it takes is one thief. What's more likely is that raising from the dead is seen as socially dubious. PCs can use it, but they risk tarnishing their reputation.
Keep in mind that in 4E, Raise Dead does not automatically bring a person to life. There are a number of factors involved and most people who die, simply stay dead.
That said, resurrection wasn't that widespread in Eberron either. Most people who did it had compunctions about doing so, if they could at all. Just because a Raise Dead ritual exists doesn't mean that every NPC that's the equivalent of 6th levels has access to it. House Jorasco will still have their Altar of Resurrection, and the followers of any faiths will still be cautious in who they choose to even attempt to bring back.
Don't dissapoint me, WotC!
There will be no timeline advancement, not even two years.
The biggest change is that they've given explicit permission to break setting rules, I.E. that PCs and important NPCs can have dragonmarks that fall outside the normal racial boundries, such as a gnome having a mark of making or a goblin having a mark of healing.
Beyond that, things are supposed to be as close as possible to the 3.X version.
My understanding is that, with the exception of Mechanics changes inherant to 4e, and the minor expanation for inclusion of new races, NOTHING is changing from 3.X ed to 4e.
There will be no timeline advancement, not even two years.
The biggest change is that they've given explicit permission to break setting rules, I.E. that PCs and important NPCs can have dragonmarks that fall outside the normal racial boundries, such as a gnome having a mark of making or a goblin having a mark of healing.
Beyond that, things are supposed to be as close as possible to the 3.X version.
This happened in some of the earlier published adventures and was often suggested as a potential plot. Nothing new there, either.
If you want to advance the timeline, there's nothing stopping you.
Except all the work involved, which it would have been nice to have the design and development teams do for me. It would be easier for me to take their work on the advancement of the timeline, judge whether it suits my needs or not, and if not, pick up my old ECS and game on.
Really, I don't want to advance the timeline any more than the people who complained about it wanted to. What I do want is the confidence that the design team, who I think we all respect and admire, is able to put out the best product it can, and that any feedback that they are forced to take into consideration is informed, well-reasoned and represents a significant sample of their current and potential player base. However, The Badger implied that people throwing a fit about the time skip were what killed that idea, and TwinBahamut seems to be proud that this was the case. I think that's wrong.
Unless TwinBahamut and the others who complained were in the room with the design team and heard the idea fleshed out, and weighed against other potential directions for the setting to take, then their view is uninformed, and in my opinion should not carry enough weight to significantly influence the direction of a product line, IMO.
My hope, again, is that the design team floated and perhaps abandoned the idea on its own merits, or perhaps gave informed presentations to some focus groups and took the feedback of that group into account when making the decisions on the product line. I hope that they had the freedom and good sense to weigh the complaints of a vocal few on a message board for what they are worth, which is not much. And I hope that the product that they are delivering is the best they could produce, time-skip or no.
In the aftermath of that decision, I recall James saying that they were considering putting their ideas for advancing the timeline into the book as campaign ideas, and I think that is fine. I certainly could be wrong about this, but I the tone of his posts seemed to indicate that he was frustrated at the Internet-driven shutdown of that idea. Anytime James' ideas are trumped by people not on the design team, whether they be on this forum or WotC brass, then something is wrong in the world.
Like I said, I hope that they came to their own conclusions about the matter, and that the designers really did agree with TwinBahamut that this was a better direction for the setting.
I believe I heard that dragonmarks will significantly revamped, which should be interesting.
I expect them to function like spellscars. I.e.:
There will be a feat to pick up each dragonmark, probably with the expected racial prerequisites. These will work like multiclass feats, giving you a small bonus or at-will ability. You can then take additional feats (least, lesser, greater) to swap out class powers for dragonmark powers. I believe there will even be paragon paths with a prerequisite of a specific dragonmark feat or "any dragonmark feat" (heir of siberys).
I expect them to function like spellscars. I.e.:
There will be a feat to pick up each dragonmark, probably with the expected racial prerequisites. These will work like multiclass feats, giving you a small bonus or at-will ability. You can then take additional feats (least, lesser, greater) to swap out class powers for dragonmark powers. I believe there will even be paragon paths with a prerequisite of a specific dragonmark feat or "any dragonmark feat" (heir of siberys).
Quite possibly, though I believe the weapon mastery feats are a better example. A pseudo-class like spellscared requires at least one power choice at every level character can choose powers (minimum 19 powers), multiplied by 12 active marks that would be 228 powers, which would take up far too much page count (likely at least 57 pages) and that's not even accounting for aberrant marks. Conversely, the weapon mastery feats only require 3 powers, each one designed to scale by tier, and so would likely only take up one page per true mark, plus maybe a few more for aberrant powers (though I think aberrant marks might be better saved for a companion article in Dragon magazine, or possibly even just be spellscared reflavored for Eberron).
[INDENT]Edit: Also an individual Paragon Path for each of the 12 active true marks might take up too much space (the FRPG only included a total of 21 paths), but it is unlikely that a single Dragonmarked Heir path would suffice in 4E, however, I believe that there is a compromise. Many of the houses could probably be paired along vague lines of similarity. As an example, healing and hospitality might be similar enough concepts to allow Jorasco and Ghallanda to share a single paragon path, possibly with the features and powers having slightly different bonus effects based on the characters actual mark[/INDENT]
Like I said, I hope that they came to their own conclusions about the matter, and that the designers really did agree with TwinBahamut that this was a better direction for the setting.
I have no doubt that this is the case. I would much rather have the designers listen to fan feedback and judge it fairly than just flinch and throw away a good idea whenever a fan complains. After all, there were plenty of great ideas described in early 4E previews that I loved, like the Wizard disciplines such as Golden Wyvern, and I hate the idea that they may have been scrapped just because some fans complained.
At the same time, a game company should listen to its fans. At the same time, fans should give criticism of proposed and actual changes to the game. Unless this happens, the game will never improve. I am indeed proud that I may have helped influence the decision to avoid the time-jump, because I did so by offering fair and well-mannered criticism of why I thought it was a bad idea. I tried to persuade anyone at WotC who may have been listening, I didn't just throw a tantrum. Honestly, the implication in your post that I did just that is very insulting to me. If what I did was bad, then you must think that it is wrong for fans to give any feedback at all.
I wonder why they treated Eberron with such kid gloves, and took a sledgehammer to the Realms. Radical changes were made to the Realms, while if what people are saying is true, Eberron is unchanged. Is it the Realms years of accumulated Lore? You would think that was one if its finer selling points. Any theories?
I can't give any more than a speculative answer, but I think that Eberron and its concepts were a significant influence on 4e. It was a world where PCs were deemed larger than life from the outset, which is a core part of the 4e philosophy. FR was very much rooted in earlier D&D editions. I don't know whether many people's problem with FR was the lore so much as the abundance of high level NPCs. It's hard to build up a sense that the world needs you when there's a flock of mini-Elminsters in every village.
After all, there were plenty of great ideas described in early 4E previews that I loved, like the Wizard disciplines such as Golden Wyvern, and I hate the idea that they may have been scrapped just because some fans complained.
I completely agree. I thought that the decision to enfeeble those descriptions in response to fan feedback (and I hestitate to call the shrill hysteria that I read on these boards regarding that idea "feedback", but to use a more descriptive term, "howling nerdrage" would probably be considered rude...) was incredibly unjust and ultimately worse for the game. I am as disappointed in WotC for listening to it as I am in the "fans" for posting it.
At the same time, a game company should listen to its fans. At the same time, fans should give criticism of proposed and actual changes to the game. Unless this happens, the game will never improve. I am indeed proud that I may have helped influence the decision to avoid the time-jump, because I did so by offering fair and well-mannered criticism of why I thought it was a bad idea. I tried to persuade anyone at WotC who may have been listening, I didn't just throw a tantrum. Honestly, the implication in your post that I did just that is very insulting to me. If what I did was bad, then you must think that it is wrong for fans to give any feedback at all.
I'm sorry you find my comments insulting. I haven't reviewed your posts of the era, and have no intention to, but if they were fair and well-mannered, then I really wasn't talking about you, was I?
If you weren't well-informed, and did not fully understand the breadth and implications of the idea to the setting vs. the alternatives, but tried to persuade the skilled and professional WotC designers to change their direction anyway (in a fair and well-mannered way), then I would still characterize that as, let's say, unwise. If the designers, knowing that the opinions proffered were uninformed, allowed themselves or were forced to be persuaded or disproportionately influenced, then I think that is wrong.
A game company should listen to its fans. All its fans. Or at least a truly representative sample. Not just the ones that complain on message boards. But it also needs to trust in the talents of their skilled, professional designers, and they need good, well-informed feedback for their ideas, and sometimes you need to put out what you think is best, regardless of what the mob thinks. Can you imagine the product if WotC just let the fans drive everything? If every product was designed to offend the fewest members of the Internet community? It would be insufferable pablum.
Anyway, what's done is done and there is no changing it now. So, let's agree to hope that the Eberron designers floated the idea of the time skip, heard some negative feedback (most shrill and ignorant, but some fair, well-mannered, and persuasive), thought about it again, test marketed some alternatives, and came up with a direction that was even better. To romanticize it a bit more, let's hope even more that they were being forced into the time-skip idea by evil corporate wonks and that the Internet feedback freed them to pursue the good idea that they wanted to run with in the first place. I don't think the latter is likely, but it's fun to dream...
Peace...
I wonder why they treated Eberron with such kid gloves, and took a sledgehammer to the Realms. Radical changes were made to the Realms, while if what people are saying is true, Eberron is unchanged. Is it the Realms years of accumulated Lore? You would think that was one if its finer selling points. Any theories?
I think a large part of it is the non-canonical aspects of the Eberron novels. Whereas the history created in the FR novel line filled in a LOT of game material. Everyone was worried about canonical changes to their campaign.
Also, Eberron has a much different relationship with the gods than FR does. In fact in Eberron, no one is quite sure the gods exist or not.
I have no doubt that this is the case. I would much rather have the designers listen to fan feedback and judge it fairly than just flinch and throw away a good idea whenever a fan complains. After all, there were plenty of great ideas described in early 4E previews that I loved, like the Wizard disciplines such as Golden Wyvern, and I hate the idea that they may have been scrapped just because some fans complained.
I know it's off-topic, but it's also very important as a premise: some things are not a matter of what fans like, but of logic. We have classes, paragon paths, and feats. General career, specialization, and customization of the character.
Where in these three do you want "Golden Wyvern discipline" to be in, again? Is there any single argument that justifies it being more suited for class than for paragon path or feat?
...
About Eberron, when I opened this thread I didn't know anything of the talk about its changes for 4e, but I really really expected them to be nearly nothing, and the reason is simple: Eberron was already 4e in everything but mechanics. After all they even have more or less the same age, if we count developing years.
Personally I'm looking forward to the Kalashtar race for the simple fact that it will have my favorite combination of ability modifiers, we're all nearly sure about it: +Wis, +Cha. And they will even have natural psionic feeling... They'll really become my favorite race.
I am most curious to see if Kalashtar will bein the EPG or not. Since Psionics won't be out by then (I know, you can be a Kalashtar and not be a psionic class) I am wondering if they may be saving the Kalashtar until the PHB is released with psionics. It would fit.
Since Psionics will with extremely high probability follow the same power system as all other power sources, Kalashtar's natural psionics could find some use even without having psionic classes. They'll have a psi-like encounter power (or at-will maybe, in case of telepathy, if they don't get both things) that will come handy to many classes.
Especially, I guess Kalashtar will excel at leader classes. After all if they turn out to be +Wis +Cha as it's easy to suppose, they will already be perfect Clerics or Paladins, good Bards and Shamans and respectable Inspiring Warlords. I guess their racial power(s) too will be leaderish. Telepathy for one is perfect for a leader.
In the Dragonforge novel there is a tiefling warlord as a subplot from the Demon Wastes. Dragonborn are also in the book and located in Argonnsen as you assumed.
END SPOILERS
I think kalastar will come out with psionics, but I hope they don't. As far a dragonmarks, I see them as feats, similar to the channel divinity feats. One for each type(least, lesser, greater). Perhaps with paragon or epic prereqs. I swear I saw something from WoTC though about a player(in a playtest, office game)taking the Heir of Siberyss PP.
> What if goblins started gaining the mark of making?
The houses are generally pretty pragmatic. The three branches of Cannith would be more likely to go flat-out in trying to recruit these guys. Not only would it give them access to a new pool of talent (keeping in mind that only some members of a bloodline actually get a mark, so any new bloodlines are a major gain), but it would allow them to make political inroads into Darguun (and to a lesser extent, some other places) that they can only dream of as a human-only house.
Also, in an article that was in some issue of Dragon a while back they talked about how Eberron's Cosmology was going to be reworked into the World Axis, which seems to me the most significant change they're going to make. But Eberron's unique planes will exist, they'll just be reworked into Astral Dominions, regions of the Elemental Chaos, the Feywild, and the Shadowfell and such.
And no, the sakah are not primarily half-orc. They're common to all of the barbarian tribes of the region, most of whom are human.
Edit: That said, I'm not going to get drawn into another 'debate' with you, so this will be my only reply on the subject.
As for Dragonborn PCs, we do have some info about that from KB:
"Just touching on what I recall James having said at the seminar, yes, there are dragonborn in Argonnessen. However, that's not the typical origin of a dragonborn PC. Among other things, the whole idea of Argonnessen is that it's the land of mystery, a place where, as of the start of your campaign, it's possible that no person of Khorvaire has been there and returned to tell the tale. Having a dragonborn PC from Argonnessen who can say "Argonnessen? Eh, it's not so bad. Let me tell you about my favorite diner..." pretty much whacks that mystery. So yes, dragonborn can certainly be found in the Vast and the Light of Siberys - but there will be other hooks provided for dragonborn PCs in Khorvaire. But again, like the eladrin, the goal is to give them a role that provides options to 4E players without feeling that it creates inconsistencies with previous material.
As a note, I'm playing a dragonborn PC in the Eberron campaign I'm in - so I certainly thing they have a solid place in the world. "
First of all, kalashtar have been named as kalashtar by developers, speaking of 4e Eberron.
Then one piece of information known about them is that they will retain their "naturally psionic" thing, and we see nothing of that in deva.
Another thing I recall (might be wrong on this one) is that kalashtar either "make ideal", or "have been already playtested as", "empaths", which are surely the new "psionic leaders". If this is the case, you will agree that an empath necessarily runs at least partially on charisma, for which deva are not famous for while kalashtar are and are being foreseen as again so in 4e.
I'm sorry I can't provide source links, maybe you can find them in the unofficial compilations, or searching the developers blogs. However most of the argument is logic. After all why would they loose the opportunity of adding a new race, with all the support it needs and everything, especially if being such a unique one for its characteristics, it could convince people to buy Eberron just for them? (I'm one of them)
I'm interested in seeing where the new races fit in like Dragonborn and Tiefling. Though I could see Dragonborn easily being from Argonessa or whatever that place is called with all the dragons? Tiefling I was once told by Keith Baker himself would come from places where the planes touch Eberron or Manifest zones. That was 3.5 though. Now that they are official "standard" races in D&D I'm wondering if they will be more numerous or have their own land or area they are from or at least something that says these races aren't too far fetched to allow in Eberron? I've always liked Tieflings since I found out about them and I'd like to portray them in Eberron without people acting like I'm the weirdo who always wants to play something nonstandard.
In case you haven't seen it yet,thisarticle might be very useful. Note that, in the comments section, it turns out that Ohr Kaluun might be the cradle of the Tiefling race.
If they had advanced the story line, we as DM's would have had the choice to use the advanced timeline or the original timeline. We would have gotten more.
Try telling that to the people on the Forgotten Realms board. They disagree quite vehemently.
Then again, some of them read the books with no intention of actually playing in the game. That's fine of course, but I think its hardly fair to cry foul when Wizards instead concentrates on people actually interested in playing D&D.
I recall James saying that they were considering putting their ideas for advancing the timeline into the book as campaign ideas
It's the last thing I'd heard and I'm hoping to see that chapter. More campaign ideas suits me just fine. I've already fleshed out some campaign ideas I had from spanning 5-10 levels to spanning 20-30 levels.
I am most curious to see if Kalashtar will bein the EPG or not. Since Psionics won't be out by then (I know, you can be a Kalashtar and not be a psionic class) I am wondering if they may be saving the Kalashtar until the PHB is released with psionics. It would fit.
The Eberron seminar at GenCon 08 answered the question of how to work kalashtar in the absense of psionics:
"They are given a psionic flavor without confining them to a psionic class, much as current powers have a psionic flavor, dealing psychic damage."
I'd say that's a strong sign they'll be in the EPG.
I've always liked Tieflings since I found out about them and I'd like to portray them in Eberron without people acting like I'm the weirdo who always wants to play something nonstandard.
I'd say its safe to say their roots will go back to a tribe that made a deal with the fiends empire that battled with the dragons and couatl. That or they were enslaved by the fiends and changed by the experience.
Another thing I recall (might be wrong on this one) is that kalashtar either "make ideal", or "have been already playtested as", "empaths", which are surely the new "psionic leaders".
I would love a source on that as to me it would prove psionics are in PHB3 which all but clinches Dark Sun as the 2010 campaign setting.
I would love a source on that as to me it would prove psionics are in PHB3 which all but clinches Dark Sun as the 2010 campaign setting.
That is my foretelling. A google search for "kalashtar psionic leader empath" returns right after my intervention (wow, I'm number 1... :D), this thread: All PHBII Races and Classes Confirmed?. And in particular this post:
Rich Baker mentioned the empath in the ask the designers thread about a month or so back(I'm guessing at the time period because I'm too lazy to look). This is the only time in past few months that any comments have been made about any unreleased power sources beyond primal.
So a further search gives this:
Gen Con Coverage Aug 14 (kalashtar confirmed and confirmed to have psionic flavor without needing psionics classes)
And this post by RICH Baker, which just confirms empaths as psionic leaders.
So it seems I correlated the two without any real link between them, and probably because I thought "Kalashtar are gonna be there since summer 2009 with their psionic flavor but waiting for psionic classes, so the classes must come in the very next PHB after Eberron."
No actual source for "Kalashtar as best Empaths", I really had invented that memory in my mind, out of sheer foretelling. But we'll see... ;)
Oh and needless to say I also see Dark Sun as the most probable setting. After all with psionics taking the spotlight, it just makes Sense.
Another thing I recall (might be wrong on this one) is that kalashtar either "make ideal", or "have been already playtested as", "empaths", which are surely the new "psionic leaders". If this is the case, you will agree that an empath necessarily runs at least partially on charisma, for which deva are not famous for while kalashtar are and are being foreseen as again so in 4e.
The only info on Empaths that we have is that they are leaders(maybe that they are psionic leaders). There has been no indication about what stats they run off of or what races make ideal ones. And in fact, we can say with some certainty that they are nowhere near being ready to be playtested. The earliest that they could appear would be in PHBIII and we just got an article today saying that PHBIII was just handed over to Development(the people that make stats).
The only info on Empaths that we have is that they are leaders(maybe that they are psionic leaders). There has been no indication about what stats they run off of or what races make ideal ones. And in fact, we can say with some certainty that they are nowhere near being ready to be playtested. The earliest that they could appear would be in PHBIII and we just got an article today saying that PHBIII was just handed over to Development(the people that make stats).
I know all of this and still think Charisma and Wisdom will be among the stats.
I don't know why something like 90% of the boards stay away from these previsions as undead from holy water...It's just logical that a Kalashtar will make a very good empath and that the Kalashtar will be a Wis & Cha race, since it's an empty slot and besides suits them well.
Plus, it's really what a psionic leader needs: perceiving and influencing others minds, Wis & Cha. We could say "empathy" in itself as a concept recalls exactly what the combination of good Wisdom and Charisma is, speaking in game terms and real life terms alike.
Speaking of empathy, I "feel" people stay away from these speculations not to create false illusions on the matter AND not feel stupid if they're wrong, am I right? Or maybe because they simply want to avoid discussions about the officialness or "likelyness" of the hypotheses? I for one, don't care about any of these, but if I disturb someone feel free to tell me...