Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dralenan May 17, 2009 21:03:02	Okay, forgetting DDO (which draws an interesting mix of people) and the WoW=4ed crowd, if they decided to make an MMO based on 4e, what would you like it to be like? Personally, I think the new system would translate nicely, probably moreso than any other RPG system I've looked at or played. There would be a few things that would work out different, and that's for the best... In most MMOs, skills are learned by talking to a trainer, who will teach you skills for money. I prefer learning the powers naturally, but I think retraining for a fee is not a bad idea. So if you get to level 10, and you're still running on 1st level powers, you can buy yourself up to level 10. I don't really like the lack of interaction with NPCs in many MMOs, something that LOTRO isn't as bad at, but definitely could be improved. I am not sure how Ritual casting would be implemented in the game, possibly in a form similar to crafting. Of course, casting time would be reduced excessively to make it playable (do you want to sit for an hour and cast magic circle). I think of anything in 4e, Rituals will suffer the most, and many would have to be cut. With the perception, passive perception, etc., I think there is potential for an interesting form of "drawing aggro" in such a game. Instead of simply "you walk withing x feet of monster, he runs at you", you could have monsters hear you, or ignore you even when you are right on them. I think it would be a good thing. What other thoughts?
#2 Daybreaker May 17, 2009 21:55:26	Nymphs.
#3 doneisi May 17, 2009 23:24:15	4e is very position based, so taking it off of a grid will leave tons of powers, feats and class features needing to be scraped. Really the best 4e MMO I can think of would be turn based, sort of like a virtual game table that does the math for you and has pre-made campaigns. 4e also is so team based it would be nearly impossible to solo at all, meaning new people to the game would really be turned off by it.
#4 Dralenan May 17, 2009 23:38:13	I disagree with both of these ideas. I think that positioning could easily be translated into an open world, using measurement. It's possible concepts like Flanking would be hard to implement, but not impossible. I could see it working, without becoming turn based. As for "team based", it certainly is, because 4e assumes a party of players against a party of monsters. A single monster within two levels of a PC is an adequate solo fight...and in an MMO, you typically pull and aggro a single monster. It would be no different, and would work about the same as it would in the tabletop game. They would just need to space monsters outside of dungeons out a bit.
#5 justinmypants May 17, 2009 23:48:31	I don't think D&D's system would translate well into an MMO. If another D&D MMO was in the works, I hope they would focus more on the world and lore of D&D, rather than trying to force the rule set of the tabletop game into a digital version. The game doesn't need to be the same as pen and paper, it just needs to feel the same, to keep to the same spirit as the pen and paper. And the best way I feel would be to immerse the player in the lore of the game.
#6 The_White_Sorcerer May 17, 2009 23:53:03	Here's why it propably won't work in real time in three words: Push, pull, slide. If those didn't convince you, here are four more: Immediate interrupt, immediate reaction. There are others, I'm sure.
#7 tusz May 17, 2009 23:56:22	My main concern would be how extra move actions would be done. Would these be brief speed boosts? It would be a weird/awkward system. OAs and shifting would probably also have to be messed with. As would immediate actions (which I guess could work like counterspells for interrupts and keyed abilities for reactions). As for powers, they'd probably have to just put encounter powers on a 3-minute CD and dailies on a 20-minute CD. That wouldn't leave much variety for the first few levels, but I suppose that's standard. Magic items would have to be level-scaling or level-restricted, to prevent new paladins from running around with +6 Holy Avengers at first level and such. Many skills would be interesting to implement, especially given 4e's general stance toward DM adjudication. Social skills would be fairly easy with a NWN/Mass Effect-style dialog tree. Knowledge skills could be treated properly by various knowledge-necessary objects and the like. Rituals, potions, and alchemy would probably be handled like crafting in most games, separate from the normal feat system. Actually rituals would probably be divided between regular rituals, potions, and enchanting. The XP system would have to be revamped in order to preserve the normal leveling-up time. 300 encounters is like a day or so in MMO terms. The world design concepts don't seem compatible with an MMO-style world, in terms of the vagueness and mystery assumed by PoL. They'd have to go with a well-known area (Eberron perhaps?). PVP would be a difficult thing to balance, given the reliance of some classes on hiding behind a group (Wizards, etc). It would have to be almost completely PVE-based. I guess what I'm saying is, they could do it, but they'd have to pretty much redesign many of the rules and abandon current design philosophies to make it run smoothly. They might be better served using the current D&D fluff, plus the fundamental concepts behind the races and classes, and making a whole new game based more around MMO design philosophy. Knowing what I know of D&D and MMOs, I'd say there's some pretty strong potential there. [EDIT: so yeah, what justinmypants said.]
#8 Dralenan May 18, 2009 0:14:59	I was just discussing the "immediate action" bit in another thread, and I think it will work nicely. WoW already has skills that act in the same way. It will either be an automatic reaction, or it will be a toggle that the player can turn on (I think it will work best as a mix, attack of opportunity would be an automatic action, some immediate interrupts would be automatic, and some that require player input would be toggled). So when active, you get it action when you could. Immediate reactions would work the same way. There is no reason these can't happen in an MMO. As for push/pull/slide, I don't see the problem. These can be done easily, even if we aren't measuring the game in square. Just measure the game in ft, and it is a different matter. Sliding someone one square, when there's no squares, impossible...sliding 5ft is another matter. Shifting would be interesting, but I think just having things move within a certain space limit (5 ft) preventing attacks would work. So positioning is not a problem either. Extra move actions, action points, etc, those won't translate. In moving into real time, the turn system, thus the action system has to be scrapped. That would be the only significant change. However, it could go like this: you can use a standard action once every X seconds, move freely (risking opportunity attacks, etc.), use a minor action again every x seconds (less time than the standard action). Immediate actions and free actions aren't even counted as actions. Extra actions would be hard to do, probably best represented by eliminating the "standard action" cooldown. That's how I personally would do it, instead of a power cooldown, there would be an action cooldown. As for the cooldown timing for encounter and daily, I like what you're thinking. It really feels like other MMOs I've played (where extreme powers can take 30 minutes-1 hour to cooldown). Level restriction of magic items is nothing...just say that the item is useless if it's five levels over the character level. The skill system would not translate well, and much of it would be passive. I think attempting a NWN style is going too far, and even that was passive for the most part. Skills just aren't that useful (stealth will be useful, perception would be useful, beyond that, I don't know). It depends on how they design it. I don't think skills are that important for an MMO. As it is an MMO, the XP system will have a few considerations. One is that the typical character would likely fight a lot of minions (25 XP a piece at first level), taking them a long time to level up. Players who want to grind would have no problem with that, though. So because of the grinding, I would cut the XP reward for monsters down a good bit, but keep the tables the same. I don't see the world design being too difficult, although I would prefer they make a new setting for it, personally. From playing LOTRO, I can say I don't think this game would be much more unbalanced. True, a Wizard will stay behind the fight...so will a Loremaster in LOTRO, so will a minstrel. LOTRO isn't designed with wide-scale PVP like WoW is, instead it has an "arena" mode in addition to the game. Since the Points of Light campaign doesn't focus on evil, that might be the best route to take for a 4e MMO. The more I talk about it, the more I actually want to play this.
#9 Dark_Stryke May 18, 2009 0:17:30	Here's why it propably won't work in real time in three words: Push, pull, slide. If those didn't convince you, here are four more: Immediate interrupt, immediate reaction. There are others, I'm sure. Pulling from WoW... push: Blast Wave, Thunderstorm pull: Death Grip slide: can't think of any at the moment. Plenty of things that work like shifts or teleports though. immediate interrupt: Kick, Counterspell, Pummel, Spell Lock immediate reaction: Overpower, Riposte, Focused Will (and other "when you get hit/crit, X happens" effects), Hand of Freedom, Insignia of the Alliance/Horde
#10 Dralenan May 18, 2009 0:36:34	One thing I can't see working as written is fey step. It might simply become a "teleport forward 20 ft" kind of spell.
#11 jayemkay22 May 18, 2009 0:45:35	I would love to see D&D done up right, just like pen and paper, I think DDO tried to mimic WoW too much. D&D should play to it's strengths as a turn based strategy game as an MMO. I don't doubt that they could make a real time action oriented game if the wanted too. Sure they'd have to modify stuff here and there, but it could be done. I've never felt like real time games lent much to D&D though. I miss the old SSI turned based module style games and I feel they more accurately capture the feel of pen and paper D&D than DDO or even the Baldur's Gate and Never Winter games. I think it'd rock if they just had a set up where there was a huge city where you could just hang out and role-play with your toon in character and go around and find friends or a guild to run short module style dungeons with that'd be like the old SSI turned based games but with much better graphics of course. I think they could make it fairly simple and still a lot of fun. Basically almost a game version of the stalled Table Top program, except less 3Dish. Well that's my crazy idea, I'm sure I'm the only person that'd like that though.
#12 Dralenan May 18, 2009 0:50:38	Yeah, I don't really think that would work, but I think they could make the game so that if all you wanted to do was hang around town, and look for dungeons, you certainly should be able to. There's a versatility that MMOs really seem to lack, you have a vast world ahead of you, but when you reach level 15, it's off to Ashenvale with you...there's always somewhere you're supposed to be.
#13 i_can_see_forever May 18, 2009 2:32:56	Why do people always want an MMO? D&D is a game for a small party of friends. A video game that supported that would be best in my opinion. I don't kill if there's ten million munchkins running around my 'persistent world'. I care if there's a good story and I can have fun with it with my friends.
#14 Zardnaar May 18, 2009 2:57:38	You would either have to do a WoW clone or do a multiplayer tactical based RPG like the old Sega Shining Force game or Fire Emblem and maybe Final Fantasy Tactics.
#15 Dralenan May 18, 2009 3:14:49	Well I for one want an MMO because it's a great concept that I have never seen live up to its potential. I think D&D, 4e in particular would be a good means of aiming for something really good. I don't see a persistent D&D world, with many players running around interacting as being a bad thing. I think it should be designed with groups in mind, so people who like to adventure together can play as a group. But there is always tabletop for that. There's maptool for that. If you really want to play a game like that, just play NWN. There are options like that already. A persistent D&D world is something else, and I don't think DDO lived up to near the potential it could have been. Yes, there will always be idiots who play these games, it's unavoidable (either that or have a CIA-style screening process on all new player accounts, which might be interesting, as long as I'm immune). And will it be a WoW clone? Well, only if WoW is a clone of Everquest, and that a clone of Ultima Online. There are always areas to be innovated, and I don't think that a new game needs to copy everything from WoW, but there are elements from the genre that can't be avoided. People already think 4e is WoW, if they make an MMO from it, certainly people will say "it's just a WoW clone", no matter what. But I think, translating it to an MMO, it would show a level of diversity from WoW. And back to the original topic...I want an MMO that isn't a grindfest or delivery service game. I mean, that's what most MMOs turn into...either "kill X monsters and talk to me again", "talk to my friend on the other side of the world", or "take this item to Mr. Underhill at the Prancing Pony, and don't let anyone who's hungry see you do it". And treasure hunting, that's the other biggie..."find the rare peacock feather, then gather three wolf eyes, and bring them to me". With a D&D MMO, there's room for more interesting quests, I would think. And of course, there's always good old fashioned grinding, that can't be ignored, nor over emphasized.
#16 korpus May 18, 2009 6:30:40	I think a turn based game would give it some charm, you are more looking at a game like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate than World of Warcraft.
#17 tusz May 18, 2009 7:32:40	I think a turn based game would give it some charm, you are more looking at a game like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate than World of Warcraft. Agreed on this. A turn-based MMO would be painfully slow, since you'd need to wait for everyone in the vicinity to move before you could again. Any crowded area would be a nightmare.
#18 DevoDog May 18, 2009 7:46:51	I think it would be very tough to do a MMO for 4e. To really play to the strengths of 4e, combats would have to be turn based, which means that every encounter situation would have to be instanced for you (or your team). There would also have to be timers implemented or else you could easily get a griefer who would simply not take his/her turn when it comes around...grinding the combat to a halt. I would, however, like to see a 4e Multiplayer game, ala the old SSI Gold Box games. I think that could work out well. And I wouldn't even mind the "old school" graphics.
#19 i_can_see_forever May 18, 2009 9:18:52	Well I for one want an MMO because it's a great concept that I have never seen live up to its potential. I think D&D, 4e in particular would be a good means of aiming for something really good. I don't see a persistent D&D world, with many players running around interacting as being a bad thing. I think it should be designed with groups in mind, so people who like to adventure together can play as a group. But there is always tabletop for that. There's maptool for that. If you really want to play a game like that, just play NWN. There are options like that already. A persistent D&D world is something else, and I don't think DDO lived up to near the potential it could have been. Yes, there will always be idiots who play these games, it's unavoidable (either that or have a CIA-style screening process on all new player accounts, which might be interesting, as long as I'm immune). So basically, you just want a better MMO and think they should slap the D&D name on it? *shrug* I still fail to see what 4E D&D brings to the table here. If you're not going to make it turn-based, what's the point of making it a 4e MMO? I mean, there's the campaign settings I guess but those applied to earlier editions as well. DDO uses Eberron and that hasn't stopped it from sucking, by all accounts.
#20 samyueru May 18, 2009 9:29:27	4e's turn based nature wouldn't translate well to the MMO format, at least if it was done in a similar way to WoW.
#21 mesinock May 18, 2009 9:44:49	1) I would like to see character sprite collision; other MMO's characters can walk through each other, I don't like that. 2) I would like to see group unique quests, and a semi-living story line. 3) I would like to see skill use dynamics, not the current skill challenges blah. 4) I would like to see real role playing opportunities. Probably text box reply options; and linking back to point 2, player action effects on the world. 5) I would like to see character reputation effects. Kind of like an alignment system, a characters reputation would determine their access to towns and possibly net a wanted status on them from the points of lights/ points of darkness.
#22 mesinock May 18, 2009 9:50:53	4e's turn based nature wouldn't translate well to the MMO format, at least if it was done in a similar way to WoW. Why not, turn based simply considers each turn to be six seconds of the combat round. Other actions are considered to be happening at the same time. Damage and defenses would be the only things that need to be modified.
#23 korpus May 18, 2009 10:26:31	At 6 seconds that would probably even be quite slow in real time. I feel that 4e's strength in its combat system is the chess like strategy elements. Not saying that it wouldn't work in real-time but I don't think the system would be as good.
#24 The_White_Sorcerer May 18, 2009 12:32:55	So if I'm pushing/pulling/sliding in real time, how quickly do I have to choose the exact direction and path I want to move the opponent?
#25 Istaran May 18, 2009 14:23:36	In D&D 4e we spend something like half an hour to an hour to play out something on the order of one minute of in-game time in combat. If we try to force that into real time you will lose a lot of what makes this game cool. Assuming 6 seconds per 'turn': 1) a combat that should be 1/300 of your characters career (give or take) will now last you about a minute. So 5 hours of in game combat time puts you at level 30 ready to retire. I certainly wouldn't expect too much attachment to people's characters, unless we try and do the rest of the game proportionately. I.e. travelling to the site of your adventure will often take literal days. During that time you must be paying attention to your game non-stop because the obligatory point A to point B encounter could happen at any time and if you go to the bathroom your character can easily die before you get back. 2) Think fast! 4e is a chess like tactical combat game which requires you to chose your actions well or die, especially for the interesting classes. In real time you have only seconds to decide whether you have enough speed to arc around and avoid OAs to reach your target safely or if not whether to provoke or chose a different target. 3) Interrupt this! Your swordmage needs to decide before the enemy swings at him that he is going to Frost Backlash if hit, but even if he decides 'yes' he may be thwarted by his mark auto-triggering his aegis since he didn't turn that off yet. 4) Fortunately computers are fast. So the NPCs, while not master tacticians, can still run all their tactical calculations and determine the optimal moves for their turns within the six seconds. 5) Push, pull, and slide are really unwieldy or else near useless. If you're thinking about using Triumphant Shout you're crazy: push all enemies and slide all allies in a blast 3? How could you hope to input that many directions within the full six seconds, let alone what you are actually alloted for your standard. So it will have to have standardized effects, taking what in the P&P game is a radically encounter-altering tactical control power and making it a rather mediocre repositioning power. 6) What good is a shift? So you want to use a ranged power? Just shift back a square (or 5' or whatever). Problem? Since this is real time, the monster just shifts up with your and you're still in reach and still provoke. 4e is built around the explicit assumption of non-simultaneous movement, and doesn't really work without that assumption. 7) Don't die! A properly challenging encounter in 4e can drop most anyone in 1-2 rounds if the enemies focus fire and the leaders aren't on the ball. Your party will need to work quickly to prevent that, by managing enemy options with defender and controller powers, buffing and healing with leader style powers, and of course eliminating enemies. If you aren't all on the ball in the first 12 seconds of combat it could easily be too late for one or more of you. 8) Your camera can be your worst foe! That tree might not be between your character and your foe but it is between your camera and your foe, so you didn't see what just stabbed you in melee and still can't target it. Hold on, I'll just adjust the angle.. well there goes a turn! This one is more an implementation trade-off issue: there are ways to build the game to keep this from being an issue but they tend to be counter-immersive, like maybe a glowing outline of each creature that shows through obstacles and is a click-target. ---- HERO system ran into this same sort of issue. A company decided to make an MMO out of it, and very quickly everything that makes HERO system a game was stripped out and all that was left was the characters/settings. (And IMO, HERO's characters/settings are blandly generic, having been designed as examples to help explain the rules system and not much else.) D&D being used as a setting for an MMO would make it Yet Another Fantasy MMO, as the vast majority of the MMOs out there right now are D&D-like settings. The true high point of the D&D 'setting' is the DM, which an MMO can't provide. Sure, we could make a standard MMO out of Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, or Ebberron. It's possible it would even be good. But I think fans of the roleplay of D&D will find it dissappointing because it lacks real human interraction, and fans of the mechanics of D&D will find it dissappionting because real time cannot do the mechanics justice. It will just end up being a D&D skin placed on WoW-like mechanics. The real-time imperative will inhibit tactical play. The short combats will turn into grind fests. I think it'd rock if they just had a set up where there was a huge city where you could just hang out and role-play with your toon in character and go around and find friends or a guild to run short module style dungeons with that'd be like the old SSI turned based games but with much better graphics of course. I think they could make it fairly simple and still a lot of fun. Basically almost a game version of the stalled Table Top program, except less 3Dish. I think there's some potential here. I'd concider giving time limits for each decision a player has to make; 10 seconds to input your actions for the turn, with the clock stopping while each plays out on screen, and 3 seconds to input an immediate or opportunity action when it's triggered. It'd still be slow by MMO standards but it would limit delays and put some time pressure on the game. Well I for one want an MMO because it's a great concept that I have never seen live up to its potential. I think D&D, 4e in particular would be a good means of aiming for something really good. I don't see a persistent D&D world, with many players running around interacting as being a bad thing. I think it should be designed with groups in mind, so people who like to adventure together can play as a group. But there is always tabletop for that. There's maptool for that. If you really want to play a game like that, just play NWN. There are options like that already. A persistent D&D world is something else, and I don't think DDO lived up to near the potential it could have been. Yes, there will always be idiots who play these games, it's unavoidable (either that or have a CIA-style screening process on all new player accounts, which might be interesting, as long as I'm immune). I'm not sure what you want from a persistant world in particular. Most MMOs don't let players make permanent changes that affect others. EVE is the only one I'm familiar with that does to a significant degree; so much so that player-driven interraction is the bulk of the game. This inherently leads to a PVP heavy game. To make truly persistant PVE based content means constant dev work to make new things for the players to affect, which will only ever be affected by a small percentage of players. The dev places the princess in the dragon's lair, and one group of adventurers (per server?) goes and rescues her. After that she is permanently rescued for all players and the devs need to come up with the next thing. Otherwise you have the non-persistance of MMOs that people always complain about. Are you willing to pay extra to have enough full time content devs to keep interesting things for you to do? I'm sure there's a market for it, but I don't think people will be willing to pay what it is going to cost. And will it be a WoW clone? Well, only if WoW is a clone of Everquest, and that a clone of Ultima Online. There are always areas to be innovated, and I don't think that a new game needs to copy everything from WoW, but there are elements from the genre that can't be avoided. People already think 4e is WoW, if they make an MMO from it, certainly people will say "it's just a WoW clone", no matter what. But I think, translating it to an MMO, it would show a level of diversity from WoW. While certainly details will be different, and hopefully even better, a 4e MMO would almost inherently lose all the things that make 4e awesome. If it turned out to be a good game, it would be due to unique innovations, not because of what it inherited from 4e. And back to the original topic...I want an MMO that isn't a grindfest or delivery service game. I mean, that's what most MMOs turn into...either "kill X monsters and talk to me again", "talk to my friend on the other side of the world", or "take this item to Mr. Underhill at the Prancing Pony, and don't let anyone who's hungry see you do it". And treasure hunting, that's the other biggie..."find the rare peacock feather, then gather three wolf eyes, and bring them to me". I totally understand this desire. IMO, EVE gets away from this somewhat, especially if/when you get into low-sec or 0.0 where the quest is no long a generic mission from your NPC of choice, but you and your corp deciding to go try and capture another corp's spacestation, stake a claim to a solar system, or go raid a wormhole for sleeper-tech and hope you aren't forced to exit into Goonswarm territory because the wormhole moved on you. When you stick to high-sec, NPC driven missions.. the devs try to keep things interesting but there is only so much they can do, as every new tidbit they program in quickly gets old and familiar after each and every player has experienced it a dozen times. It could however be cool to have an MMO that plays like EVE (only in a fantasy setting instead of space? either way) but with NPC factions that behave like EVE low-sec corps do. Imagine if you would an kobold tribe that actively spawns new combat forces and spreads them out to claim and hold territory, building up fortifications in zones they were not previously, attacking PCs and NPCs alike until they are fully quashed through PC aggression. Without a concerted effort by 100s of PCs, it will be impossible to kill them all, though a single party can make a dent here or there, or possibly make an incurrsion into kobold territory to acquire the precious loot within. With a D&D MMO, there's room for more interesting quests, I would think. And of course, there's always good old fashioned grinding, that can't be ignored, nor over emphasized. D&D isn't the key part needed to make interesting quests. Middle Earth or Azeroth are both perfectly good settings for interesting quests, and WoW could easily add complex interesting quests on top of the existing game (much as EVE recently added 'epic quests', though I suspect you want even better than that). A part of the problem though is that making one really good interesting quest is a lot of creative design work. And then you will play through it in an hour or whatever and want them to spend the month of man-hours to provide you with the next one.
#26 Herrozerro May 18, 2009 14:30:41	NWN3
#27 igniz May 18, 2009 15:01:37	Screw Neverwinter, BG3. At least that still exists. Pulling from WoW... push: Blast Wave, Thunderstorm pull: Death Grip slide: can't think of any at the moment. Plenty of things that work like shifts or teleports though. You're missing the amount of control involved, examples of forced movement exist in real time games, no questions asked, you don't even need to refer to WoW. What you don't get is how they're used in non-real time environments and what you lose by being in real time. It would be much better turn based, similar to Atlantica Online (iirc). immediate interrupt: Kick, Counterspell, Pummel, Spell Lock immediate reaction: Overpower, Riposte, Focused Will (and other "when you get hit/crit, X happens" effects), Hand of Freedom, Insignia of the Alliance/Horde These are all reflex powers that the player has to use with the correct timing to get the effect, desired. An Interupt fails as an interupt if you don't time it effectively, it should be a reactional choice that the player chooses with no chance of failure. WotC should either 1) Make up new rules and a certified adjusted set of rules for RT and computer games. 2) Just make the bloody game table you spongy fraks.
#28 bompo May 18, 2009 19:56:52	I only want to see one thing ---- in a word --- Demogorgon!?!?!
#29 zombiegleemax May 19, 2009 23:07:29	Actual Bloody D&D, not some other MMO re-skinned to look like it.
#30 hanez May 19, 2009 23:26:47	4e is very position based, so taking it off of a grid will leave tons of powers, feats and class features needing to be scraped. Really the best 4e MMO I can think of would be turn based, sort of like a virtual game table that does the math for you and has pre-made campaigns. 4e also is so team based it would be nearly impossible to solo at all, meaning new people to the game would really be turned off by it. People keep deluding themselves that 4e is not easily portable to a MMO. They will do it, well. Some things, like triggers will have to be modified, but it will be a lot more like the real system then Neverwinter, or DDO.
#31 Marcotic May 20, 2009 0:39:32	Should they do a DND 4e MMORPG (it rhymes) then I would hope that they go ahead and do the turn based system. I would imagine that it would work, but you would probably need some kind of differential between combat and out of combat. So if you aren't in combat, you run free form, if you are in combat you click to a grid. It would play out alot like a timed version of FF tactics. One advantage about the turn based system is that you could conceivably have all of the creatures battling being represented by tokens- A computer from 99' could even run it! Also, you could have the option, if everyone in your party agrees, to turn off the time limit. I think that such a game could be made as a real-time, but I won't lie, I think it'd suck. I wouldn't be playing DND, I'd be playing a sad money-grab that in no way fulfills my DND fix. I'd bet I'd be playing a crap version of wow.
#32 mushrooman May 20, 2009 19:14:22	4e rules don't mix well with MMORPG formula. What would need to be done is for people to think outside the box. All I suggest that if someone where to make a D&D MMORPG don't use any edition rules.. none. Use a MMORPG format and just add D&D texture. Use monster manual icons, famous locals, and other D&D flavoring. It's basically what most MMORPGs do anyways, why not just use the distinct D&D names, places, and ideas.
#33 zeratulcraft May 20, 2009 19:25:59	1) I would like to see character sprite collision; other MMO's characters can walk through each other, I don't like that. Know what I don't like? When bastards block all the doors by standing in front of them when there's sprite collision. You know, you can't play the game if you can't leave a room.
#34 Dralenan May 20, 2009 21:27:10	Edited for bizarre form of doublepost...not sure what happened here...
#35 Dralenan May 20, 2009 21:34:28	I might add that in D&D's movement rules, you can pass through an ally's space. It's not really that big a difference...and I agree, it could be abused a lot... I think one thing this thread has unintentionally shown is that people want the game table, because that is essentially what they are describing: A turn based, token represented D&D system. I want the game table to, but this isn't the game table, and with that already slated as a product (even if it's in limbo), what would be the point of making another game that was essentially the same thing with better graphics?
#36 mesinock May 21, 2009 23:44:34	Know what I don't like? When bastards block all the doors by standing in front of them when there's sprite collision. You know, you can't play the game if you can't leave a room. That can be easily work out without with code canceling at door ways and other such important areas of passage.
#37 zeratulcraft May 24, 2009 5:05:08	That can be easily work out without with code canceling at door ways and other such important areas of passage. Yeah but then we get back to the 'problem' of it being unrealistic or whatever brought it up.