and I'm just wondering when it's going to be released!! :D
So it's a little late.
It'll probably be over a year late.
Right now they're working/focusing on the Character Generator which should be released in full sometime in January (7 months late) and then they're work on the Character Visualizer (which will be 7+ months late), and that will likely take many months. Then comes the Dungeon Builder which is a key part of the Game table.
The Game Table is last. If everything else comes really, really fast (say 2 months each) we're looking at July. But considering the gap between the Compendium and the Generator will be roughly 5 months it could be just as bad for the other applications. So we could *easily* be looking at January 2010 before the Game Table is up and running.
In the meantime, someone will ask this question on the forum every two weeks until then.
The Game Table is a "Make or Break" app. If it does what was promised, it could change the future of D&D in significant ways; if it doesn't do what was promised, it will be a black mark on Hasbro, WotC, and D&DI. The stakes get higher when you realize that there have been other high-profile failures by companies trying to develop a powerful, user-friendly virtual tabletop application. (Neverwinter Nights, I'm looking at you!)
I don't think Wizards can afford to do this wrong.
Truth.
The Game Table is a "Make or Break" app. If it does what was promised, it could change the future of D&D in significant ways; if it doesn't do what was promised, it will be a black mark on Hasbro, WotC, and D&DI. The stakes get higher when you realize that there have been other high-profile failures by companies trying to develop a powerful, user-friendly virtual tabletop application. (Neverwinter Nights, I'm looking at you!)
I don't think Wizards can afford to do this wrong.
maybe if it flops they can learn the words "Out sourceing"
I am looking forward to it, and hope it is even 1/2 as good as claimed, but I feel it would go better had they gotten a softwere company to work on it instead of inhouseing it
maybe if it flops they can learn the words "Out sourceing"
I am looking forward to it, and hope it is even 1/2 as good as claimed, but I feel it would go better had they gotten a softwere company to work on it instead of inhouseing it
They outsourced the character generator for 3e. It was a disaster as well.
Personally, I'm already convinced the Game Table is a failure/black mark (albeit one in pencil that can be partially erased if they get it out the door before GenCon '09). It was promised on launch and they based much of the hype around 4th Edition on the applications... and nothing. And it'll likely be a year late.
Especially since it took them months to come out and admit it would be late. Did they think we weren't going to notice?
4e seems to have a built-in lifespan (as seen in the pre-determined types of power sources and dragons) that should take the line to the end of 2011 (and the PHB4) before they need to start adding and padding. Although, I can see them trying to extend 4e and delay 5e until 2014 (and the 40th anniversary of D&D). But really, the game's likely going to have a 5-year lifespan. If the game table is really a couple years late we'll be halfway through the life of the edition before a key feature of the edition is launched.
They outsourced the character generator for 3e. It was a disaster as well.
Personally, I'm already convinced the Game Table is a failure/black mark (albeit one in pencil that can be partially erased if they get it out the door before GenCon '09). It was promised on launch and they based much of the hype around 4th Edition on the applications... and nothing. And it'll likely be a year late.
Especially since it took them months to come out and admit it would be late. Did they think we weren't going to notice?
4e seems to have a built-in lifespan (as seen in the pre-determined types of power sources and dragons) that should take the line to the end of 2011 (and the PHB4) before they need to start adding and padding. Although, I can see them trying to extend 4e and delay 5e until 2014 (and the 40th anniversary of D&D). But really, the game's likely going to have a 5-year lifespan. If the game table is really a couple years late we'll be halfway through the life of the edition before a key feature of the edition is launched.
This is pretty pessimistic, Jester. What about giving WotC the benefit of the doubt?
I want the Game Table, and I want it to work properly; I'm also willing to be patient for it.
But I was let down. And have been let down for half a year.
I can't just suck it up and blindly follow my brand loyalty; eventually I want some results. The Character Builder is nice and better than I expected (mostly just for the mix-n-match character sheet which is worth the price of admission) but I want what I was promised. The throw-away bonus tools produced by someone in their spare time aren't enough...
Yeah, it's a little harsh. But they had their chance to wow me, and we "saw" the game table in use in two GenCons. But after almost 7 months I'm tired of giving them continual slack. I was really excited about D&DI back in May and was planning on signing-up and recruiting people for a big weekly online game, getting together people from across the continent.
But I was let down. And have been let down for half a year.
I can't just suck it up and blindly follow my brand loyalty; eventually I want some results. The Character Builder is nice and better than I expected (mostly just for the mix-n-match character sheet which is worth the price of admission) but I want what I was promised. The throw-away bonus tools produced by someone in their spare time aren't enough...
I'll say this much, Jester: It's thanks to people like you that people like me can be so optimistic about upcoming products. If not for the complainers and doubters, who's to say companies would ever be motivated to deliver on their promises?
Together, Jester, you and I keep the consumer-demand cycle rolling! ;)
Honestly, I don't see why WotC is so adverse to licensing this type of stuff out to companies DEDICATED to it. WotC needs to stick to its roots of IRL games and not this online digital stuff. Leave that to the Professionals.
I'll say this much, Jester: It's thanks to people like you that people like me can be so optimistic about upcoming products. If not for the complainers and doubters, who's to say companies would ever be motivated to deliver on their promises?
Together, Jester, you and I keep the consumer-demand cycle rolling! ;)
You're the ying to my yang.
I was a die-hard supporter of 4e on other message boards (mostly playing devil's advocate) and a staunch defender of WotC, but here I like to hold their feet to the fire here knowing others can step in and balance me out.
I am curious though when most people will give-up or lose hope (if ever). I wonder what it will take to finally kill the optimism.
Yeah, it's a little harsh. But they had their chance to wow me, and we "saw" the game table in use in two GenCons. But after almost 7 months I'm tired of giving them continual slack. I was really excited about D&DI back in May and was planning on signing-up and recruiting people for a big weekly online game, getting together people from across the continent.
But I was let down. And have been let down for half a year.
I can't just suck it up and blindly follow my brand loyalty; eventually I want some results. The Character Builder is nice and better than I expected (mostly just for the mix-n-match character sheet which is worth the price of admission) but I want what I was promised. The throw-away bonus tools produced by someone in their spare time aren't enough...
Umm...
Except for the fact that the game table was never promised to be delivered upon the launch of 4th Edition. I am sorry to hear that you are under the mistaken impression that a release date was set and has since passed you by, but you are incorrect.
The only promise ever given was that DDi would be launched along with the release of 4th edition with the free trials of the Dungeon and Dragon online magazines. In fact, everything has specifically said that the tabletop would not be ready until at least 2009 and that they were not going to announce a specific date until the project was further along because they didn't want to rush the project to market or break expectations.
Here's video documentation to that effect from GenCon last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixHUK6FSI18
And the exact quote from Randy Buehler: "I do not expect to see the game table up this year."
In conclusion, the game table is only 7 months late in your mind. In the real world, it isn't expected to come out for at least a few more months. I wouldn't be surprised if it still ran behind schedule a bit. However, to act like they have broken some kind of unspoken promise at this point is absurd and a gross misrepresentation of facts.
You're the ying to my yang.
I was a die-hard supporter of 4e on other message boards (mostly playing devil's advocate) and a staunch defender of WotC, but here I like to hold their feet to the fire here knowing others can step in and balance me out.
I am curious though when most people will give-up or lose hope (if ever). I wonder what it will take to finally kill the optimism.
For the record, I'll state why I'm so optimistic about D&DI at this point:
[INDENT]1. Character Builder Beta. All signs point to this being among the finest character generator programs ever created for any tabletop RPG. It's literally a perfect blend of form and function; it's both extremely powerful and extremely user-friendly, and it's still only in the Beta stage. If this is indicative of the quality of tools WotC is creating, the Game Table will be worth at least $5/month on it's own. (But don't tell them I said that.)
2. Digital Insider update articles. Written on a weekly basis by Randy Buehler, these were particularly helpful in restoring confidence in D&DI. When it's not clear to the public what the heck is going on, it's very reassuring to have somebody in charge take the time to keep us regularly informed, especially when they're hoping to collect some of our money. Given that Randy is no longer with WotC as of yesterday, I imagine (and hope) someone will take over the role from him. If WotC intends to continue with D&DI, it would be truly the most boneheaded of moves for them not to also continue with keeping their customers reasonably informed.
3. Awesome Dragon and Dungeon content and an increasingly more usable Compendium. Dollar-for-dollar, so far a year-long subscription to D&DI has proven to be an entire order or magnitude better value than purchasing hardcover D&D books, based upon the sheer volume of material. For $5 per month, you're getting as much content as some $20 or $30 hardcovers. The fluff has been first rate, and the mechanics haven't been much worse than the books; it's all written by the same people who rate the books for us. The icing on the cake is the Compendium, which gives you access to the all the crunch from ALL the hardcovers, on top of all that online content! A recent poll of more than 200 people on ENWorld suggested that among D&DI subscribers, only a statistically insignificant percentage thought that their subscription wasn't worth it; in other words, basically everyone with a subscription thinks that it's well worth the money. This bodes well for future subscribers, IMO.[/INDENT]
I think the core of all these reasons for me being so optimistic about D&DI is that I really believe WotC is delivering some quality products. I think that D&DI can succeed by virtue its merits, and because I also think there's a strong demand for at least some of what WotC is offering with D&DI.
...My only fear is that Hasbro won't give it the time D&DI needs to get done right!
If this is indicative of the quality of tools WotC is creating, the Game Table will be worth at least $5/month on it's own. (But don't tell them I said that.)
I sure hope it's worth at least $5/month on it's own, because once it's out we're going to be looking at at least $15/month.
The current pricing structure of DDI is based only on the magazines and compendium. They have already stated that the price will be increasing once the Character Creator will be available. It will be increasing again incrementally with each feature addition. This is one reason why it pays to lock in a yearly rate.
Personally I think the $5/month pays for the magazines. For the content offered I'm happy to pay it. Whether or not it is worth the price increase when the game table comes out remains to be seen. It looks great, but there are quite a few solid options out there already for online roleplaying that won't come with a monthly fee.
I for one am looking forward to it, but whether or not I can convince my players to fork over the cash is another thing entirely.
I for one am looking forward to it, but whether or not I can convince my players to fork over the cash is another thing entirely.
Truth. However, if it is what it is aiming to be, it will be worth it. Plenty of companies have tried to publish powerful, user-friendly virtual tabletops for roleplaying, and I would argue that they have only had mixed success, at best. (Remember the debacle surrounding the NWN toolset? Powerful, yes; user-friendly, "What? You need a degree in Computing Science to use this thing?")
If they get it right, this product will practically sell itself, I'm certain of it.
Truth. However, if it is what it is aiming to be, it will be worth it. Plenty of companies have tried to publish powerful, user-friendly virtual tabletops for roleplaying, and I would argue that they have only had mixed success, at best. (Remember the debacle surrounding the NWN toolset? Powerful, yes; user-friendly, "What? You need a degree in Computing Science to use this thing?")
If they get it right, this product will practically sell itself, I'm certain of it.
I do agree with you, I think it's going to be well worth it. I'm just not sure if I'll be able to convince my group the same!
Personally I have had a lot of success with the new Fantasy Grounds. It requires a few tricks and more GM preparation than the Gaming Table looks like it will have, and visually it isn't as pretty (well, as the pictures), but it certainly does the job.
Here's video documentation to that effect from GenCon last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixHUK6FSI18
And the exact quote from Randy Buehler: "I do not expect to see the game table up this year."
Yeah, nice try. That video is from GenCon THIS year not last.
And they might not have said in big, bright letters "the game table will launch with 4e" they based much of their presentation of 4e on the game table and online components, so much so that the back of every one of the core books has a (photoshopped) ad for D&DI.
Yeah, nice try. That video is from GenCon THIS year not last.
And they might not have said in big, bright letters "the game table will launch with 4e" they based much of their presentation of 4e on the game table and online components, so much so that the back of every one of the core books has a (photoshopped) ad for D&DI.
You're right, that ad was premature, and is, frankly, an embarrassment now. I've already stated that I want D&DI to succeed, but I also think that Gleemax was an ambitious plan to begin with, and probably not among the best-thought-out, at that. I think it might have been wiser for WotC to have entered into a contract with an existing social-networking company such as Facebook or MySpace, rather than trying to develop similar functionality for themselves from the ground, up. Having done so may well have put them further along with D&DI, not to mention spared them the public humiliation of having to cancel such a major, high-profile project.
Then again, we all know what people say about hindsight....
If the game table is really a couple years late we'll be halfway through the life of the edition before a key feature of the edition is launched.
Luckily, the a virtual game table is something which can be used with any edition which uses a square grid, a similar scale, and miniatures. The only place I could see the rules being built-in would be, maybe, square AoE templates. That's only a problem if you assume 5th Edition will revert to psuedo-circles, and not even a very large problem.
That would still be horrendously late, but it wouldn't be any less useful once it arrives.
When you need to go through everything from the light radius of weapons up that's a fairly hefty overhaul, especially when you're not sure what code does what and every change risks a crash or conflict...
Truth.
The Game Table is a "Make or Break" app. If it does what was promised, it could change the future of D&D in significant ways; if it doesn't do what was promised, it will be a black mark on Hasbro, WotC, and D&DI. The stakes get higher when you realize that there have been other high-profile failures by companies trying to develop a powerful, user-friendly virtual tabletop application. (Neverwinter Nights, I'm looking at you!)
I don't think Wizards can afford to do this wrong.
Of course there are some of us that already consider it a black mark because we can't use said product because of our choice of operating system. 4e like WoW indeed.. I can run WoW on my Mac.:P
Of course there are some of us that already consider it a black mark because we can't use said product because of our choice of operating system. 4e like WoW indeed.. I can run WoW on my Mac.:P
:P