1) Tharizdun
2) Raven Queen
3) Bahamut
4) Lolth
Are all gods going to be 35th level Solos?
I guess it depends on their "divine rank". We already know that exarchs are merely elites and Yeenoghu (as a "god-like" being) is only level 28 solo.
So I think we will see lvl 28-35 solo for the lesser god tier and lvl 35-40 solo for the greater god tier. Moradin wsa already hinted as being lvl 38 solo
NONE
here is why, they should stat all of them, but only their avatars and *NOT* the deity's actual stats
Stat blocks are always nice but so is some fluff to go with it I think. I'd love to see a series of articles, similar to "Core Beliefs" that once appeared in print run of Dragon (by Sean K Reynolds). Hey, speaking of Dragon, it's online now. That would be a great place for this (hint, hint ;))
Also, Lady of Pain... jk :P
I guess it depends on their "divine rank". We already know that exarchs are merely elites and Yeenoghu (as a "god-like" being) is only level 28 solo.
So I think we will see lvl 28-35 solo for the lesser god tier and lvl 35-40 solo for the greater god tier. Moradin wsa already hinted as being lvl 38 solo
I think you're stratifying this too much; I would really prefer never to see the return of such concepts as "Divine Rank" or "Lesser Deity"; they make the game dramatically more complicated than necessary, when all that we really need is a detailed explanation of each deity's relationships with the player characters, and if appropriate, their combat stats.
As for which deities' stats ought to be written and published, I would limit it exclusively to Evil and Chaotic Evil gods, who can serve as destiny-quest villains. In probably 90% of D&D games, Good, Lawful Good, and most Unaligned deities' stats would never get used, and would only encourage literal "My god can beat up your god!" scenarios, which the game isn't designed to handle, and which don't likely contribute much to the play experience.
I think you're stratifying this too much; I would really prefer never to see the return of such concepts as "Divine Rank" or "Lesser Deity"; they make the game dramatically more complicated than necessary,
Well, that's not my idea, that's how they're stratified in the FR supplements.
Compared to 2e and 3e they basically left out the "intermediate power" stratum and went back to how OD&D also only knew demi-, lesser- and greater gods.
Although the 4e FR doesn't call the middle stratum "lesser", it calls them "exarch", "god" and "greater god".
More generally, I'd like to see stats for the Raven Queen and Zehir.
Let me restate: I think statting anything other than gods who can serve as villains is pointless. (I understand why some folks would want them, but I think the cost outweighs the benefit.) 4E didn't include Celestials and other good-only beings in its Monster Manual, explicitly because of the fact that those creatures take up space on the page, design and development time and money, and only ever get used in game by a tiny fraction of players (and usually in manner which isn't especially contributory to the game).
If 4E doesn't generally use Lawful Good celestials as monsters, why use Lawful Good deities as monsters, especially when deity stats are even bigger, take even more time and money to produce, and will get used even less often?
Level 1, minion.
Take turns beating her to death.
They've mentioned a couple of times how there are entities in the Far Realm that are of considerable power, nearly equal to that of primordials and/or gods. I'd like to see some of those...but I also want to see them as not blatant Cthulu mimics
(The term "Elder Evil" gets thrown around a lot to describe these types of horrors.)
(The term "Elder Evil" gets thrown around a lot to describe these types of horrors.)
If you go pick up the 3.5e Elder Evils book you'll know why, and even the few far realm creatures in that aren't exactly "Cthulu" creatures, but neither are they the most powerful things the far realm is supposed to hold. As I said in another topic, a 4e Elder Evils book is likely (and again I'll make the comment that I expect the release date to be december 2012 and I hope someone gets the joke). And last Doc Hook to your other statement, There is one Lawful good aligned monster in the Monster Manual, and low and behold It even has Celestial in its name.
the answer:
NONE
here is why, they should stat all of them, but only their avatars and *NOT* the deity's actual stats
Too late for that. We already have Tiamat's statd and we will be getting Vecna's when Open Grave is released.
Honestly, I am more curious about the stats for a primordial than another god.
As I said in another topic, a 4e Elder Evils book is likely (and again I'll make the comment that I expect the release date to be december 2012 and I hope someone gets the joke).
That calendar?
While I love stats for gods, have since I got hold of my favourite D&D book of all time back in the day (1st Ed Deities & Demigods), I would never want stats for the Lady of Pain, that's kind of the point of her, she's one of the unquantifiable things in the game, she's really just a crystallization of the mood and vibe of Planescape and a storytelling/plot/literary device.
As I said in another topic, a 4e Elder Evils book is likely (and again I'll make the comment that I expect the release date to be december 2012 and I hope someone gets the joke).
But that will give me only five days to read the book. Oh well I guess it would be appropriate as the last book I read before the world ends.....Too late for that. We already have Tiamat's statd and we will be getting Vecna's when Open Grave is released.
Honestly, I am more curious about the stats for a primordial than another god.
Actually we've had Primordial stats longer than we have had diety stats. There was one in FRPG and another in last month's issue of Dragon.
Deep Crow
If they ever stat-out The Nameless, it will be last of all the elder powers, since his return undoubted spells the end of the current setting, and the birth of a new horrific warworld.
Additionally, you're removing some, well most actually, of the mystique associated with the fact that the Nameless goes unnamed in every publication except the DMG1(meant for DMs!). Don't spoil the fun for players, post spoilers approprietly.
Now, my 2cp:
1. Asmodeus (astral sea)
2. Lloth (abyss)
3. Imix, Lord of Fire (elemental chaos)
4. Raven Queen (shadowfell)
5. Baba Yaga (feywild)
6. Lady of Pain (sigil)
My list is fairly straight forward. Technically I guess Asmodeus and Lloth are of the same vein, but their location differ enough that they both made my list. I would have probably listed the Winter Queen over Baba Yaga, but they published her in this months Dungeon magazine. Lastly, my characters pop between Fallcrest and Sigil every other session (since I used the Manual of the Planes hook to haev a portal in the door of the Blue Moon Alehouse, taking the PCs to an identical inn on Sigil named 'Gentle Repast', usually only visited by good world travels and the occasional immortal/fey), thus Lafy of Pain would be neat if my players decided to do something stupid. I don't really consider Raven Queen to be 'evil' or a 'threat' to my players, but I would like to see the Shadowfell have a stated super-power, and I didn't think Count von Barovia really fit the bill enough.
Remember to have fun!
In each book I would like to see each entity fully stat-blocked, and more importantly, I would love to see story/fluff for each entity on the level given in the FR campaign guide.
I would love to see things like "what are the Raven Queen's priests called", etc., the way the FRCG gave really detailed information on the dieties. I also want the Deities and Demigods book to list where each diety falls in the Greater God, God, Exarch hierarchy since the Player's Handbook/DM's guide didn't provide that information.
In each book, respectively, I want to see... details on the various Astral Dominions (those not already covered in Manual of the Planes), the various regions of the Elemental Chaos related to each Primordial/Demon Lord, the main regions of the Material Planes where each Primal Spirit holds dominion, and the Archfey's desmenes in the Feywild. (Though technically, I suppose these locations could be saved for future volumes of Manual of the Planes.)
All in all though, I have to say that the one I most want is a new Deities and Demigods. I would like for the first volume to include all the Deities/Exarchs from the Core setting, Forgotten Realms, and Greyhawk... with future volumes adding the Eberron, Dragonlance, etc. deities into the pantheon. (Although, I'm wondering more and more if the new core setting is supposed to replace Greyhawk, after some great amount of time has passed, due to the fact that places like the Tomb of Horrors are supposed to be in the new Core setting now.)
It may not be too long before we see Jesus in the core pantheon, if the new Ravenloft story is any indication.
What is the FRPG? I searched it out but didn't find anything that made sense... is it an actual printed publication?
Remember to have fun!
Actually the 'dieties' of Eberron should never be stated as the setting is the only one where the existence of deities is put into question
I completely agree. Heck, half of Eberron's religions worship things that aren't even deities.
*faceslap* Heh, I should have known that. Doh... I thought the only thing I could have wanted in there for my campaign is the Genasi rules... now you're telling me their is a stated superpower in there?
Yep. It's got an error in it though. They call it a "Solo Primordial" in the book, but it was updated on the D&DI Compendium to read "Solo Brute" IIRC.
*faceslap* Heh, I should have known that. Doh... I thought the only thing I could have wanted in there for my campaign is the Genasi rules... now you're telling me their is a stated superpower in there?
:embarrass Actually that was a mistake on my part. It should have been FRCS(Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting). I just got them confused because the primordial in FRCS is the only thing of interest in that book to me, while FRPG has a lot of stuff that interested me. So I was thinking primordial=forgotten realms, cool stuff in forgotten realms=FRPG. My bad.
So, it's like, 'Generic Primordial A' ? Nothing specifically named? Which elements does the primordials powers draw upon?
Actually it is a specific entity, Blazing Rorn the Fury. I don't actually own the FRCG so I can't provide any details on who he is, but I can give you the basics on what he is. He is a huge humanoid that embodies elemental earth and fire. His elemental fire constantly damage anyone that gets near, even more if they are foolish enough to attack him, and his burning heat only intensifies as he becomes injured. His mastery of elemental earth makes him basically fully aware of any creature within combat range touching the ground and allows him to bind flying opponents to the ground.
So, it's like, 'Generic Primordial A' ? Nothing specifically named? Which elements does the primordials powers draw upon?
It's called "Blazing Rorn the Fury" (Level 33 Solo Brute), and it's an earth and fire primordial (more fire than earth). It's a Huge elemental humanoid, and its fluff sorta gives you the impression that Rorn represents the elemental power of a fallen star or huge meterorite, what with the way it refers to his "blazing star form" (turns Rorn from Huge to Gargantuan when it becomes bloodied) and that it says, "Rorn was an unstoppable blaze of light brighter than the sun when his wrath burned hottest."
EDIT: Partially ninja'd.
...let me look this guide up on Scrib, I don't know if I like the idea of getting a whole manual for one monster, since I never plan to run a FR campaign EVER.
Moments later: Well, it appears thats the only manual not found on Scrib. Oh well.
...let me look this guide up on Scrib, I don't know if I like the idea of getting a whole manual for one monster, since I never plan to run a FR campaign EVER.
You could get a D&D Insider account. Rorn is in the compendium, along with all the other monster exclusive to the FRCG. You'd also get access to the Lords of Chaos feature of Dragon magazine, which stats out additional Primordials (last month we got Mual-Tar, who is a serpentine embodiment of elemental thunder and lightning).
1) Tharizdun
No.
Too late for that. We already have Tiamat's statd and we will be getting Vecna's when Open Grave is released.
Coincidentally, he's a level 35 solo controller with action point goodness.
I would also like to see Pale Night
the answer:
NONE
here is why, they should stat all of them, but only their avatars and *NOT* the deity's actual stats
This is so 2e.
Anyway, as for deities I'd like to see Asmodeus, Corellon, and Tharizdun. As for the other guys mainly Demogorgon (who's confirmed anyway), Mephi, and Pandorym.
1. I had mentioned the deities of Eberron being statted... I'm not nearly as familiar with Eberron as I am other settings like FR and DragonLance, so didn't realize that the deities of Eberron are so insubstantial (couldn't think of a better word)... so I suppose they probably shouldn't be included.
2. Due to the particular place the Chained God (Tharizidun) places in the cosmology (that of the mysterious evil searching for a way to return) and the way they've tied him and the Temple of Elemental Evil into the core cosmology, I would say that he probably shouldn't be statted-out in a main book. Instead, we should eventually see him statted in some kind of super-adventure or, better yet, at the end of an adventure path some time in the future. A very apocalyptic kind of thing.
I have Elder Evils and I loved it. I remember hearing, before 4E's release, that WotC would somehow update the book into 4E. 2012 would be a good year haha :P
I would also like to see Pale Night
It came so late in 3.5's run that I didn't expect much but Elder Evils was surprisingly enjoyable for me. Didn't plan on buying the 'companion' book Exemplars of Evil. I did however, once I realized just how much fun Elder Evils was. These two books act as the capstones for my 3.5 collection. Better for me than the Rules Compendium ;) (which was actually the final 3.5 release).
The thing with Elder Evils is, it's a campaign ender; it's intended to only be used once :P. I like to get a bit more than 'one-shot' outta my supplements (It's paid for, now I'm gonna use it). I actually ended two campaigns with Elder Evils; my homebrew with Erebus (an adaptation of Father Llymic) and a Forgotten Realms setting with Atropus.
It's surely a bit early to start thinking about 'campaign-enders' for 4e but when the time is right, I wouldn't mind seeing something like Elder Evils again.
Coincidentally, he's a level 35 solo controller with action point goodness.
does anyone here feel like spoilering what action point goodness means???
As for gods, I'd prefer the Raven Queen, Gruumsh, Zehir, and Bahamut... again, in that order.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that out of all that list, we'll at least see Bahamut in the next year or so. (Probably in Draconomicon 2, supposed to come out 11/2009)
So far I've noticed demons and devils, like Orcus in MM, Dispater in MotP, Yeenoghu and Baphomet in Dragon. Poweful beings but not gods.
Anyone know if deities will be statted much like any other monter? Or will they recieve preferential treatment of some kind ;)?
have any deities been statted yet in 4e?
Yep, Tiamat in Draconomicon – she's a 35th level Solo.
I know Vecna is gonna be statted in Open Grave but have any deities been statted yet in 4e?
So far I've noticed demons and devils, like Orcus in MM, Dispater in MotP, Yeenoghu and Baphomet in Dragon. Poweful beings but not gods.
Anyone know if deities will be statted much like any other monter? Or will they recieve preferential treatment of some kind ;)?
So far we've gotten Tiamat in Draconomicon vol. 1 and Vecna in Open Grave.
As for whether they're treated just like any other monster, or receive preferential treatment, it depends on how you look at it... they're statted essentially like any other monster, but they have some particular traits that are specially "deity" traits. (examples off the top of my head - Gods discorporate when they reach Bloodied and are effectively dead for a length of time determined by the DM (weeks, months, years, so on) and all gods have a special quality that has to do with saving throws [don't remember what it is at the moment] ) It says that Gods can be permanately killed, instead of just discorporated, but that it takes essentially epic quests determined by the DM. (Each deity write-up so far has given a few suggestions as to how that could be done, but in the end it is up to the DM, and each deity's "death quests" would be different.)