Will Incarnum Replace Ki? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Will Incarnum Replace Ki?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
LordDreadman
May 12, 2009 16:35:36 Hey guys,

So I know this is a sore topic to a lot of posters currently, but I would like to discuss this rationally. Please, before you start getting angry at the idea, remember that your favorite classes are still in the game (Monk, Shugenja, Wu Jen ... and Samarai ... kinda), whereas the Incarnate, Soulblade, and Totemist are, as yet, unmentioned.

I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer.

It strikes me that the idea of "soul energy" is actually an interesting power source, but the way the Monk implements it is so different from how incarnum users implement it, it may have been necessary to seperate them.

Let me be clear, I am firmly in the "I'm glad the Monk is Psionic" camp, but I do miss the idea and feel of incarnum. I mean, there IS a gaping hole in the production schedual now (with an entire power source out), so it makes sense for another one to fill the gap. But what if they haven't destroyed the Ki power source, just refocused on Incarnum rather than "the asian power source" (as they say)?

Discuss.

Yours,
Lord Dreadman
#2
praion
May 12, 2009 16:51:45
Hey guys,

So I know this is a sore topic to a lot of posters currently, but I would like to discuss this rationally. Please, before you start getting angry at the idea, remember that your favorite classes are still in the game (Monk, Shugenja, Wu Jen ... and Samarai ... kinda), whereas the Incarnate, Soulblade, and Totemist are, as yet, unmentioned.

I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer.

It strikes me that the idea of "soul energy" is actually an interesting power source, but the way the Monk implements it is so different from how incarnum users implement it, it may have been necessary to seperate them.

Let me be clear, I am firmly in the "I'm glad the Monk is Psionic" camp, but I do miss the idea and feel of incarnum. I mean, there IS a gaping hole in the production schedual now (with an entire power source out), so it makes sense for another one to fill the gap. But what if they haven't destroyed the Ki power source, just refocused on Incarnum rather than "the asian power source" (as they say)?

Discuss.

Yours,
Lord Dreadman

yes yes yes PLEASE !!! with a cherry on the top !

I actually don't think this will happen but i LOVE incarnum :D
#3
rumek
May 12, 2009 17:16:22 I'd sure like it to happen myself, but not sure it's gonna happen. Not impossible, but improbable.

A more likely idea (well, maybe more likely) is that they fold all the Incarnum classes into one class, and have that class be under Psionic as well. I dunno, just an idea - not sure how well it would work out, but better then no Incarnum.
#4
Lord_Ventnor
May 12, 2009 17:27:04
I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer.

There's already a way to do this in 4E.

Check out the Warlock Vestige Pact in Arcane Power.
#5
LordDreadman
May 12, 2009 20:03:08 Not quite sure what you mean by that ... but I've read the Vestige Pact backwards and forwards. (Actually, it's what I've been waiting for since they announced that the Warlock killed the Binder and took his stuff).

I'm gonna take a stab at what I think you might mean ... are you saying that Warlocks use Arcane power, but their power looks different than other Arcane power users? I don't personally agree that it looks particularly different, but, even if it did, Arcane is the most "a little of this, a little of that" power source on the books right now. Most other power sources tend to keep to a similar look throughout the source.

You might also be saying that the Vestige Pact Warlock is using soul energy of other beings like an Incarnate. While nothing in Arcane Power disputes this, I would encourage you to look at the "Tome of Magic" from 3E. While there is nothing that says specifically that this is where the idea came from, even a cursory reading of both rules make it appearant that this is EXACTLY what the Vestige Warlock is based on. The difference between the Vestige Warlock and the Incarnate is actually quite simple: while the Incarnate draws energy from ALL living beings, unborn beings, and dead beings with souls, the Vestige Warlock draws his energy from a few beings that now exist outside reality. Things that become Vestiges are not common; they come about sparsely and their souls are beyond even the reach of the gods (making it unlikely that an Incarnate could use them).

Also, it should be noted that the WAY the Incarnate uses those souls is VERY different from how a Vestige Warlock does. The Incarnate generally uses incarnum to create "items" that he uses for certain benefits (similar to the Artificer ... but, again, different).

Anywho, I'm not even sure that was what you were saying ... I just wanted to write more than "huh?" in my post. That always seems silly to me.

Yours,
Lord Dreadman
#6
rampant
May 12, 2009 20:20:29 Well there are a couple ways to do incarnum. Option one would be to make a couple of classes

Incarnate - Leader
Soul Born - Defender
Shaman and barbarian gangstabbed totemist in a dark alley and looted its stuff.
Necrocarnate - Controller?

In each of these classes the daily attack and utility powers would also have a constant buff effect that endured for the rest of the encounter. Possibly even the encounter powers may have some nice buffs for a turn or two.

That would be closest in implementation to the classes.

Another would be to make a set of feats and paragon paths that grant special bonuses when you use powers these bonuses may increase as more and more of your encounters and dailys are expended. This represents your "inexhaustible" power source.
#7
LordDreadman
May 12, 2009 21:32:48 I think it would also be fun to have the At-Will and Encounter powers "bindable" to chakras. For instance, gain access to certain chakras at first level and you can bind them to the chakras available durring a short rest. You could take feats at higher levels to allow you to unlock more chakras.

The practical use of this would be that the power would change slightly when bound to a specific chakra. Also, only certain chakras would be available for certain powers (so they wouldn't need to design all the chakra benefits for each power, just fitting ones).

... Seriously, that was genius. WotC needs to hire me now before I go sell all my good ideas. You have my e-mail, fellas. Let's get on it.

Yours,
Lord Dreadman

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 LordDreadman May 12, 2009 16:35:36	Hey guys, So I know this is a sore topic to a lot of posters currently, but I would like to discuss this rationally. Please, before you start getting angry at the idea, remember that your favorite classes are still in the game (Monk, Shugenja, Wu Jen ... and Samarai ... kinda), whereas the Incarnate, Soulblade, and Totemist are, as yet, unmentioned. I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer. It strikes me that the idea of "soul energy" is actually an interesting power source, but the way the Monk implements it is so different from how incarnum users implement it, it may have been necessary to seperate them. Let me be clear, I am firmly in the "I'm glad the Monk is Psionic" camp, but I do miss the idea and feel of incarnum. I mean, there IS a gaping hole in the production schedual now (with an entire power source out), so it makes sense for another one to fill the gap. But what if they haven't destroyed the Ki power source, just refocused on Incarnum rather than "the asian power source" (as they say)? Discuss. Yours, Lord Dreadman
#2 praion May 12, 2009 16:51:45	Hey guys, So I know this is a sore topic to a lot of posters currently, but I would like to discuss this rationally. Please, before you start getting angry at the idea, remember that your favorite classes are still in the game (Monk, Shugenja, Wu Jen ... and Samarai ... kinda), whereas the Incarnate, Soulblade, and Totemist are, as yet, unmentioned. I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer. It strikes me that the idea of "soul energy" is actually an interesting power source, but the way the Monk implements it is so different from how incarnum users implement it, it may have been necessary to seperate them. Let me be clear, I am firmly in the "I'm glad the Monk is Psionic" camp, but I do miss the idea and feel of incarnum. I mean, there IS a gaping hole in the production schedual now (with an entire power source out), so it makes sense for another one to fill the gap. But what if they haven't destroyed the Ki power source, just refocused on Incarnum rather than "the asian power source" (as they say)? Discuss. Yours, Lord Dreadman yes yes yes PLEASE !!! with a cherry on the top ! I actually don't think this will happen but i LOVE incarnum :D
#3 rumek May 12, 2009 17:16:22	I'd sure like it to happen myself, but not sure it's gonna happen. Not impossible, but improbable. A more likely idea (well, maybe more likely) is that they fold all the Incarnum classes into one class, and have that class be under Psionic as well. I dunno, just an idea - not sure how well it would work out, but better then no Incarnum.
#4 Lord_Ventnor May 12, 2009 17:27:04	I always felt that tacking Incarnum onto Ki felt wrong. While the concept of "soul energy" was consistant throughout both, the implimentation was entirely different. For one thing, Ki uses your own soul energy and Incarnum uses the soul energy of other beings unborn, dead, and living. For another, Ki doesn't manifest much on the outside, whereas Incarnum is plainly evident to any observer. There's already a way to do this in 4E. Check out the Warlock Vestige Pact in Arcane Power.
#5 LordDreadman May 12, 2009 20:03:08	Not quite sure what you mean by that ... but I've read the Vestige Pact backwards and forwards. (Actually, it's what I've been waiting for since they announced that the Warlock killed the Binder and took his stuff). I'm gonna take a stab at what I think you might mean ... are you saying that Warlocks use Arcane power, but their power looks different than other Arcane power users? I don't personally agree that it looks particularly different, but, even if it did, Arcane is the most "a little of this, a little of that" power source on the books right now. Most other power sources tend to keep to a similar look throughout the source. You might also be saying that the Vestige Pact Warlock is using soul energy of other beings like an Incarnate. While nothing in Arcane Power disputes this, I would encourage you to look at the "Tome of Magic" from 3E. While there is nothing that says specifically that this is where the idea came from, even a cursory reading of both rules make it appearant that this is EXACTLY what the Vestige Warlock is based on. The difference between the Vestige Warlock and the Incarnate is actually quite simple: while the Incarnate draws energy from ALL living beings, unborn beings, and dead beings with souls, the Vestige Warlock draws his energy from a few beings that now exist outside reality. Things that become Vestiges are not common; they come about sparsely and their souls are beyond even the reach of the gods (making it unlikely that an Incarnate could use them). Also, it should be noted that the WAY the Incarnate uses those souls is VERY different from how a Vestige Warlock does. The Incarnate generally uses incarnum to create "items" that he uses for certain benefits (similar to the Artificer ... but, again, different). Anywho, I'm not even sure that was what you were saying ... I just wanted to write more than "huh?" in my post. That always seems silly to me. Yours, Lord Dreadman
#6 rampant May 12, 2009 20:20:29	Well there are a couple ways to do incarnum. Option one would be to make a couple of classes Incarnate - Leader Soul Born - Defender Shaman and barbarian gangstabbed totemist in a dark alley and looted its stuff. Necrocarnate - Controller? In each of these classes the daily attack and utility powers would also have a constant buff effect that endured for the rest of the encounter. Possibly even the encounter powers may have some nice buffs for a turn or two. That would be closest in implementation to the classes. Another would be to make a set of feats and paragon paths that grant special bonuses when you use powers these bonuses may increase as more and more of your encounters and dailys are expended. This represents your "inexhaustible" power source.
#7 LordDreadman May 12, 2009 21:32:48	I think it would also be fun to have the At-Will and Encounter powers "bindable" to chakras. For instance, gain access to certain chakras at first level and you can bind them to the chakras available durring a short rest. You could take feats at higher levels to allow you to unlock more chakras. The practical use of this would be that the power would change slightly when bound to a specific chakra. Also, only certain chakras would be available for certain powers (so they wouldn't need to design all the chakra benefits for each power, just fitting ones). ... Seriously, that was genius. WotC needs to hire me now before I go sell all my good ideas. You have my e-mail, fellas. Let's get on it. Yours, Lord Dreadman