When my 10th level fighter went through it waaaay back in 1st edition, we lost half the party, including the thief & wizard and still never found the lich's real tomb. Very challenging, very fun, very deadly.
BTW, the four-armed skeleton with the scimitars (Skeletal Tomb Guardian, page 235 in the MM), is one of the encounters in ToH. It gives an indication of just how challenging ToH would be if re-released in 4E.
Any thoughts?
Heck, you could almost play the original without character stats...
I love the original ToH. But rules/philosophy-wise, I just don't think this classic would tranlate well into 4e.
And then there's the problem of the modern players weak attitude. Think of all the crying you read concerning Keep on the Shadowfell. Wich, btw, isn't that hard - if you use a few brain cells. Now imagine what you'd read if these people played through a module truely designed to kill them.....
But part of the fun of the original ToH was all the "save-or-die"/guess-the-right-answer-or-die/have-exactly-the-right-equipment-or-die traps/encounters.
Fun?
I guess it would be about as fun as the old "choose your own adventure" books (which I loved). You get a bad end, go back to the last choice and choose the other option.
Because the best roleplayign is with disposable characters who you expect to die every few seconds. :P
But seriously, meatgrinder dungeon crawls can be alot of fun. However, I wouldn't want to go to all the trouble of making a whole 4E character just to see him get murdered in the first five seconds. Too much work.
What I think WOULD be fun is a ToH "mini-game", where instead of using standard rules to make a character, you just choose a race, a class, and a class spec. The race would give you an ability, as do the class and class spec. For example, if you chose an Eladrin Bow Speced Ranger, you would get a teleport move, a ranged attack, and something that simulates Hunter's Mark, or perhaps a tracking or searching bonus, something to fit being a Ranger.
That way, character bulding is a snap, and the rules are simpler so it doesn't matter if you die. I think that would be alot of fun.
PS: Is there anywhere on the internet where I could pick up the ToH adventure mod, especially the original? I may just undertake this "mini game" idea.
it's not player attitudes that changed... i didn't like having my character killed because i failed my Save VS Death when i started in 2nd ed & i didn't like having my character taken from me in 3rd due to failing a Fort or Will save.
i guess the only thing that changed is that we now have a choice if we want to play in 50/50 life/death personalityless spreadsheets in meatgrinders or actually play characters in a campaign ;)
note: this is said tongue in cheek... sort of. i would NEVER drop ToH in ANY existing campaign, but i don't mind running i as a one-off where we expect the characters to die like flies in a Raid factory. s'all about pre-game expectations.
i'd lend ToH to you Rustmonster, but you kinda live far away...
Maybe you can scan it? :P
note: this is said tongue in cheek... sort of. i would NEVER drop ToH in ANY existing campaign, but i don't mind running i as a one-off where we expect the characters to die like flies in a Raid factory. s'all about pre-game expectations.
Exactly. ToH style games are actually really fun, but only if that's what you WANT to play. A meatgrinder should never be put into a campaign where actual roleplaying and development is wanted.
Then they can have Dungeon Magazine articles where the classic modules are given an update sheet. In my experience you can probably update a 40-page module with a 6-8 page article.
Maybe you can scan it? :P
Exactly. ToH style games are actually really fun, but only if that's what you WANT to play. A meatgrinder should never be put into a campaign where actual roleplaying and development is wanted.
scanning it, eh... not that i would ever proliferate illegal copies of copyrighted material.
nope.
never.
What I think WOULD be fun is a ToH "mini-game", where instead of using standard rules to make a character, you just choose a race, a class, and a class spec. The race would give you an ability, as do the class and class spec. For example, if you chose an Eladrin Bow Speced Ranger, you would get a teleport move, a ranged attack, and something that simulates Hunter's Mark, or perhaps a tracking or searching bonus, something to fit being a Ranger.
A ToH (and maybe including other oldschool meatgrinder adventures) packaged as a self-contained mini-game/boardgame ala Hero Quest style would be pretty cool.
Because the best roleplayign is with disposable characters who you expect to die every few seconds. :P
Actually, I would love to play ToH and just absolutely ham it up. As party members die, my character would get increasingly paranoid and traumatized, jumping at shadows, mistrusting and ultimately turning against the other party members, &c.
The Computer is Your Friend.
However, because we're talking about a pipe dream, what I'd like to see is an actual 4e conversion of my favorite mod, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks (S3), which will me much less likely to be put together based on core material. There was an article (d20 Modern?) updating the Vegepygmies, lasers, blasters, etc. to 3.5, so maybe this isn't any less likely to happen that many of the other adventures, but it would me more needed for a mod like S3 that is so much more against-the-norm than ToH.