WOTC making alot of bad moves.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 13:43:54

If it isn't flooding the market with books upon books,  its the move to dis-continue the D&D miniatures line (which was the ONLY product I bought from WOTC since they threw all us 3rd edition players under the bus with 4th edition).

Lets look at each of the above statements I made,  separately.

Flooding the market with so many books that players were being torn in several different directions as to which book to buy.  Should have paced yourself WOTC.  This fact really doesn't concern me because of the simple fact that I picked up Paizo's PATHFINDER soon after WOTC made 3rd edition obsolete.  I tried 4th edition for 3 months.  Its a good system, but its not D&D.  It makes me glad to see alot of people turning from 4th edition D&D to PATHFINDER.  Its just a shame that the campaign setting was just mutilated by fast forwarding 200 years into the future.  Just complete idiocy on the designers part.

The other thing that WOTC did that sucked, was the D&D Miniatures line being cancelled.  It was the only product WOTC made that I was buying.   It might not have been as profitable as they wanted it to be but i'm sure they could have figured it out.  In big business,  at least in my experiences,  the decision makers always take the quick and easy way out.  Plastic is too expensive,  look into cheaper plastics.  Put out single pre-painted miniatures that are visible.  Charge $5-$7 each.  I am pretty sure they would sell. 



Well Hasbro,  you have successfully bled the D&D franchise dry and broke it down to junk.  Conglomerate toy companies,  gotta love em.



Contact me when you re-introduce the D&D miniatures line.  Until then,  have fun with the reeking turd that is D&D 4th edition. 

I would like to thank Gary Gygax and Dan Arneson for creating the coolest RPG out there.  And shame on the 4th edition designers for crapping all over their creation.  I'm sure its not their fault 4th edition had to be recreated.  3rd was not the cash cow they wanted it to be and the higher ups at Hasbro were probably riding their butts to make it more profitable or else.  Desperate times call for 4th edition.


Didn't mean to make anyone mad.........just venting.  It sucks that D&D minis are going away.  Maybe Paizo will buy the property and do it right.

#2

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 14:17:51 		I'm seeing nothing more than a bait/troll thread in the OP. Looks like another excuse to start yet another edition war. SoG basically summed up my thoughts regarding their business decisions.
#3

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 15:50:04 		O.K. let me sum up in a more "non-edition war" statement. 


I am thoroughly Ticked at the decision to cut the D&D minis. 

When I saw that they were cancelling the D&D minis I thought I'd voice my opinion on the WOTC forums.  Isn't that what a forums purpose is?

 It was thee only product I bought from WOTC. 

So I am yet another consumer who will not be spending money on WOTC products.
#4

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 16:30:21

If it isn't flooding the market with books upon books,  its the move to dis-continue the D&D miniatures line (which was the ONLY product I bought from WOTC since they threw all us 3rd edition players under the bus with 4th edition).



I know! How dare they improve the game in so many ways.  It's almost like they've done it before...
They threw all of us 2nd edition players under the bus!  They came to my house and burned my second edition stuff!  I can't play it anymore!


Flooding the market with so many books that players were being torn in several different directions as to which book to buy.  Should have paced yourself WOTC.  This fact really doesn't concern me because of the simple fact that I picked up Paizo's PATHFINDER soon after WOTC made 3rd edition obsolete.  I tried 4th edition for 3 months.  Its a good system, but its not D&D.  It makes me glad to see alot of people turning from 4th edition D&D to PATHFINDER.  


First:  I tried 3rd edition, It's a good ok system but it's not D&D. 

Second: Quality is not measured in mass appeal.  



Contact me when you re-introduce the D&D miniatures line.  Until then,  have fun with the reeking turd that is D&D 4th edition. 


I am having fun with it.  More fun than with any other edition of the game.  And I'm staring at my 1st ed PHB as I write this.   The bad decisions a company may make do not impact the enjoyment of their product.   Unless their bad decisions directly affect the ability to play the game you want, like, I don't know, if Blizzard suddenly cut Orcs out of WoW.  Nothing WotC does prevents you from playing D&D the way you think it should be played.  Unless you are dumb. 


I would like to thank Gary Gygax and Dan Arneson for creating the coolest RPG out there. 


This is a factual error on your part.   


 3rd was not the cash cow they wanted it to be and the higher ups at Hasbro were probably riding their butts to make it more profitable or else.  Desperate times call for 4th edition.


This is not backed up by any evidence.  


Didn't mean to make anyone mad.


This quote doesn't make sense when compared to the next one. 


Maybe Paizo will buy the property and do it right.

#5

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 17:55:30

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.


#6

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:00:36

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.





Clearly, you've never played it. Namecalling on the internet also makes you cool. Also, Gygax hated 3e.
#7

Tectuktitlay

Jan 24, 2011 18:16:39
They did do some bad moves in past few years, but the cancellation of minis is a "good one" since it doesn't bring them enough cash. We do not want DnD brand to = bankrupt... Hmmm...



Whoa, whoa, whoa!.  Stop right there.  :D  

Not bringing in "enough cash" isn't remotely the same as going bankrupt.  Were the minis making a profit?  Were they in the black?  That is the important metric in a realistic capitalist market, as opposed to our currently skewed-beyond-recognition need for continuously INCREASED profits, as opposed to simply being profitable.  If the minis were cancelled while in the black, while making a profit beyond their total costs, they should NOT have been cancelled.

If, on the other hand, they were in the red, they should indeed have been cancelled.




#8

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:17:50 		I played 4th ed. for 3 months.......In my opinion....it sucked.


I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.

My core statement was about how it sucks that D&D minis are not going to be made anymore.....I use D&D minis,  so you can see why this would cheese me off. 
Take your 4th edition and lay it down by the firelight and make love to it for all I care.  Its out there and theres nothing I can do about that fact.

Paizo picked up where D&D left off with 3rd edition and i am thankful for that.

Later.
#9

Cyber-Dave

Jan 24, 2011 18:19:18

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.





I would like to present this post as evidence of the truth behind my last post. Notice the inability to use proper grammar? Notice the blanket claims and non sequiturs? Notice the hilarious misuse of facts? Also, notice the hypocritical "whiney tit-baby crying" (misspelling present in the source of the quote, and intentionally recreated) and use of the term "simple minded turd" (despite all these various simple minded facets of his/her post)? We should all be sending Paizo a thank you note. If they didn't create Pathfinder, jokes like this would still be trying to play Dungeons and Dragons alongside us.
#10

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:22:47
I played 4th ed. for 3 months.......In my opinion....it sucked.


I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.



You pulled the Gygax card to start an edition war against 4th. I was just saying that he hated 3rd as well.

You're doing nothing more than trolling at this point.

Also, LOL @ the "I didn't start it, he did!" Shows the maturity level we're dealing with here. Now you can take your bike and go home. 
#11

Cyber-Dave

Jan 24, 2011 18:25:10

I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.



Want me to highlite all the insulting things you said in your first post? People are responding to you the way they are for a reason. Your first post was nothing but an insult to anyone who likes 4e.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.



It does, however, make your posts (unintentionally) ironic. Here you are, praising gygax, and "whiney tit-baby crying" about how 4e sucks compared to your beloved 3e, when Gygax hated the editions of the game you liked as much as you hate 4e. But, you like real D&D because... well, because you say so. The game we like, that isn't really D&D because... well, because you say so.

I would like to submit the original posters inability to catch such irony as further evidence of the truth of my first post in this thread.


#12

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:31:34 		Opinions,  in essence are "Because I say so". 

I think it to be true,  so in my mind it is.  Thats why its my opinion.


As for being immature and name calling.......each and every one of you have indulged in it in this thread.
#13

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:37:04 		I never once resorted to namecalling.

If you hate the game so much, why do you hang out in the forums designed for that game? Seems quite counterproductive.
#14

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:40:48

I frequent because of D&D minis threads and some of the "previous edition" threads.

#15

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:43:47 		Still, the future releases thread is for D&D future releases. Don't come into a D&D forum and start attacking the people in that (which your original post did, and almost every post since). You don't know any of us, and you need to respect people's opinions without resorting to playground namecalling.

People like stuff that you don't. It's a fact of life. Get over it. 
#16

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:55:46 		so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.
#17

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:56:45
so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.



You're not over it when you're coming into a forum looking to start an edition war.
#18

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:58:26 		I am not starting an edition war.   Your taking this way too seriously.

and if you look at my first post there wasn't any insults directed twards PEOPLE.  it was directed solely twards WOTC.
#19

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:00:12
I am not starting an edition war.   Your taking this way too seriously.

and if you look at my first post there wasn't any insults directed twards PEOPLE.  it was directed solely twards WOTC.



You came into a 4e forum directly attacking 4e. What did you expect to happen? That's called baiting.
#20

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:00:27 		The reason why i placed this in future releases section was because there won't be any more future releases for D&D minis and I wanted to voice my frustration with that.
#21

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:02:13 		Well i wasn't intentionally baiting.  Everyone took what I said in my first post as though I was personally attacking them.  When in fact I was just telling WOTC they suck.
#22

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:03:22 		Then voice frustration with that. Don't come into a forum for a specific game and start attacking that game. Again, that's baiting. It's going to be met with hostility. Your original post is 10% minis, 90% "4e sucks". Your intent was pretty clear.
#23

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:07:05 		I just used 4th edition to back up my minis statement to re-enforce the fact that i thought WOTC was making stupid decisions........True,  I don't have financial statements from WOTC to factually back my statements up.  I am just making a surface,  consumer observation without being a WOTC accountant.
#24

hanzo187

Jan 24, 2011 19:07:35


I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 


I'm sorry? So now, the fact classes know what they're meant for is a bad thing? Wasn't the lack of a defined role the reason the monk had no love in 3e? Or the fact the wizard, cleric, and druid were so overpowered, they ruled the dungeons as gods in human(oid) form? The only conclusion I got from 3e was that it was about system mastery, not effective roleplaying. Martial classes were worthless in 3e against casters, so all I see is someone upset that his magical characters were on even footing with folks who don't require magic to put down their enemies.

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.


Grappling, trip, disarm, sunder, adjusting ability scores, modifers, skills, saves, and so on when a spell changed said ability, and the ever popular and RP-killing Save or Die effect. Sure, they're simple enough...if you want to spend 10 minutes writing down all the changes on your sheet instead of... oh, I don't know, actually playing the game, but hey, your perogative.

Oh, and about the retard crack: I'm four months from my doctorate, was magna **** laude when I got my Bachelor's, finished almost 4.0 in high school, can memorize the layout of a room with a 1 second glance, among other things. Huh, yeah, guess I'm a retard. Here's some advice: Watch who you talk to. And you know what? At least I've seen some knockers lately. Oh, I'm sorry, Cyderakk, was that too close to the belt? Remember this: YOU fanned the flames! YOU called 4e lovers retards, and I love 4e! I do have some problems with 4e, notably regarding errata and other issues, but that's not for here. Therefore, unless you have true constructive criticism, shut up!

Just consider this "all's fair in love and war". I'm finished.
#25

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 19:09:59

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th. 



If you think this is the case, then no, you didn't.   The change from 2nd to 3rd was tremendously drastic.  

 

If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes. 


Proof that you've never played 4th ed. 


And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......


The contraction of "you are" is "you're". 


And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born. 


I don't even know where to begin with this one.   4e is not much of a simplification.   It's still one of the most Rule/Crunch heavy RPGs on the market.   The main benefit of 4e is the system-wide redistribution of balancing factors.    


Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.


First:  It's Dave Arneson.   
Second:  I was objecting to the "coolest RPG ever."
It's not.  It is, without argument, the most groundbreaking.  But coolest is pretty subjective.  And the version they created was rife with objectively bad design.   


#26

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:11:40
 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb".



Not so.  You attacked everyone who enjoys 4e, whether they had insulted your not (heck whether they had participated in this thread or not), with the phrase 'dumbed down for retards'.

You doubly insulted me, btw, because I have a child with Down Syndrome and I hate, hate, HATE that particular word

#27

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 19:14:03
so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.



I never inferred you were dumb. 
I implied it.  
You inferred it.

#28

brewdus

Jan 24, 2011 19:21:13 		Wow, the anger. I guess the edition wars are as hot as ever! How about this: we wait for 5th edition and insult all the guys that play that!
#29

hunterian7

Jan 24, 2011 19:22:36 		Yulck. I notice the same posters over and over getting all stirred up against posters who are angry with Wizards. They are getting as annoying and disruptive as those who bash. I wish both sides of the spectrum would go Away.
#30

brewdus

Jan 24, 2011 19:24:31 		Pathfinder>4e
#31

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:25:31
Pathfinder>4e




Oh YEAH!!

#32

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:29:56 		Hmmm, the last few posts firmly make a lie out of this


Didn't mean to make anyone mad.........just venting




 
#33

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:33:42 		Things kind of changed after my first post.......I didn't realize I could'nt voice my opinion without getting insulted personally.  And when i get personally insulted I am not just going to stand by and take it.  I give it back. 
#34

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:35:42 		As for the retard comment,  I didn't mean any insult twards actual Mentally retarded people. 

Its a dig on stupid people.
#35

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:36:16 		Yeah.  I'll bet.  That's why you chose to insult people who had nothing to do with this thread.

Makes perfect sense. 
#36

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:36:50
As for the retard comment,  I didn't mean any insult twards actual Mentally retarded people. 

Its a dig on stupid people.




I doubt that too.
#37

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:37:20
Things kind of changed after my first post.......I didn't realize I could'nt voice my opinion without getting insulted personally.  And when i get personally insulted I am not just going to stand by and take it.  I give it back. 



Once again, you came into a forum for a game and attacked that game and the people who play it. One can not read that post and not see an intent to start an edition war. We've seen it 100's of times. It's nothing new or original.
#38

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:38:30 		doubt all you like.  My advice,  don't be so sensative. 
#39

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:39:18 		I could give a huge hooting dump for an edition war.  You guys are paranoid.
#40

ORC_Chaos

Jan 24, 2011 19:40:33 		Due to complaints received about this thread, I've closed it. The thread will be reviewed to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in it’s place.

ORC_Chaos
#42

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 14:17:51 		I'm seeing nothing more than a bait/troll thread in the OP. Looks like another excuse to start yet another edition war. SoG basically summed up my thoughts regarding their business decisions.
#43

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 15:50:04 		O.K. let me sum up in a more "non-edition war" statement. 


I am thoroughly Ticked at the decision to cut the D&D minis. 

When I saw that they were cancelling the D&D minis I thought I'd voice my opinion on the WOTC forums.  Isn't that what a forums purpose is?

 It was thee only product I bought from WOTC. 

So I am yet another consumer who will not be spending money on WOTC products.
#44

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 16:30:21

If it isn't flooding the market with books upon books,  its the move to dis-continue the D&D miniatures line (which was the ONLY product I bought from WOTC since they threw all us 3rd edition players under the bus with 4th edition).



I know! How dare they improve the game in so many ways.  It's almost like they've done it before...
They threw all of us 2nd edition players under the bus!  They came to my house and burned my second edition stuff!  I can't play it anymore!


Flooding the market with so many books that players were being torn in several different directions as to which book to buy.  Should have paced yourself WOTC.  This fact really doesn't concern me because of the simple fact that I picked up Paizo's PATHFINDER soon after WOTC made 3rd edition obsolete.  I tried 4th edition for 3 months.  Its a good system, but its not D&D.  It makes me glad to see alot of people turning from 4th edition D&D to PATHFINDER.  


First:  I tried 3rd edition, It's a good ok system but it's not D&D. 

Second: Quality is not measured in mass appeal.  



Contact me when you re-introduce the D&D miniatures line.  Until then,  have fun with the reeking turd that is D&D 4th edition. 


I am having fun with it.  More fun than with any other edition of the game.  And I'm staring at my 1st ed PHB as I write this.   The bad decisions a company may make do not impact the enjoyment of their product.   Unless their bad decisions directly affect the ability to play the game you want, like, I don't know, if Blizzard suddenly cut Orcs out of WoW.  Nothing WotC does prevents you from playing D&D the way you think it should be played.  Unless you are dumb. 


I would like to thank Gary Gygax and Dan Arneson for creating the coolest RPG out there. 


This is a factual error on your part.   


 3rd was not the cash cow they wanted it to be and the higher ups at Hasbro were probably riding their butts to make it more profitable or else.  Desperate times call for 4th edition.


This is not backed up by any evidence.  


Didn't mean to make anyone mad.


This quote doesn't make sense when compared to the next one. 


Maybe Paizo will buy the property and do it right.

#45

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 17:55:30

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.


#46

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:00:36

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.





Clearly, you've never played it. Namecalling on the internet also makes you cool. Also, Gygax hated 3e.
#47

Tectuktitlay

Jan 24, 2011 18:16:39
They did do some bad moves in past few years, but the cancellation of minis is a "good one" since it doesn't bring them enough cash. We do not want DnD brand to = bankrupt... Hmmm...



Whoa, whoa, whoa!.  Stop right there.  :D  

Not bringing in "enough cash" isn't remotely the same as going bankrupt.  Were the minis making a profit?  Were they in the black?  That is the important metric in a realistic capitalist market, as opposed to our currently skewed-beyond-recognition need for continuously INCREASED profits, as opposed to simply being profitable.  If the minis were cancelled while in the black, while making a profit beyond their total costs, they should NOT have been cancelled.

If, on the other hand, they were in the red, they should indeed have been cancelled.




#48

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:17:50 		I played 4th ed. for 3 months.......In my opinion....it sucked.


I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.

My core statement was about how it sucks that D&D minis are not going to be made anymore.....I use D&D minis,  so you can see why this would cheese me off. 
Take your 4th edition and lay it down by the firelight and make love to it for all I care.  Its out there and theres nothing I can do about that fact.

Paizo picked up where D&D left off with 3rd edition and i am thankful for that.

Later.
#49

Cyber-Dave

Jan 24, 2011 18:19:18

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.
Apparently I hit a soft spot with Olfactatron.

On that note......Heres to the end of 4th edition!!!

Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.





I would like to present this post as evidence of the truth behind my last post. Notice the inability to use proper grammar? Notice the blanket claims and non sequiturs? Notice the hilarious misuse of facts? Also, notice the hypocritical "whiney tit-baby crying" (misspelling present in the source of the quote, and intentionally recreated) and use of the term "simple minded turd" (despite all these various simple minded facets of his/her post)? We should all be sending Paizo a thank you note. If they didn't create Pathfinder, jokes like this would still be trying to play Dungeons and Dragons alongside us.
#50

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:22:47
I played 4th ed. for 3 months.......In my opinion....it sucked.


I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.



You pulled the Gygax card to start an edition war against 4th. I was just saying that he hated 3rd as well.

You're doing nothing more than trolling at this point.

Also, LOL @ the "I didn't start it, he did!" Shows the maturity level we're dealing with here. Now you can take your bike and go home. 
#51

Cyber-Dave

Jan 24, 2011 18:25:10

I didn't start the name calling......olfactatron did......but i will respond.



Want me to highlite all the insulting things you said in your first post? People are responding to you the way they are for a reason. Your first post was nothing but an insult to anyone who likes 4e.

whether gygax hated 3rd edition or not doesn't change the fact that he and arneson created D&D.



It does, however, make your posts (unintentionally) ironic. Here you are, praising gygax, and "whiney tit-baby crying" about how 4e sucks compared to your beloved 3e, when Gygax hated the editions of the game you liked as much as you hate 4e. But, you like real D&D because... well, because you say so. The game we like, that isn't really D&D because... well, because you say so.

I would like to submit the original posters inability to catch such irony as further evidence of the truth of my first post in this thread.


#52

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:31:34 		Opinions,  in essence are "Because I say so". 

I think it to be true,  so in my mind it is.  Thats why its my opinion.


As for being immature and name calling.......each and every one of you have indulged in it in this thread.
#53

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:37:04 		I never once resorted to namecalling.

If you hate the game so much, why do you hang out in the forums designed for that game? Seems quite counterproductive.
#54

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:40:48

I frequent because of D&D minis threads and some of the "previous edition" threads.

#55

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:43:47 		Still, the future releases thread is for D&D future releases. Don't come into a D&D forum and start attacking the people in that (which your original post did, and almost every post since). You don't know any of us, and you need to respect people's opinions without resorting to playground namecalling.

People like stuff that you don't. It's a fact of life. Get over it. 
#56

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:55:46 		so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.
#57

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 18:56:45
so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.



You're not over it when you're coming into a forum looking to start an edition war.
#58

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 18:58:26 		I am not starting an edition war.   Your taking this way too seriously.

and if you look at my first post there wasn't any insults directed twards PEOPLE.  it was directed solely twards WOTC.
#59

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:00:12
I am not starting an edition war.   Your taking this way too seriously.

and if you look at my first post there wasn't any insults directed twards PEOPLE.  it was directed solely twards WOTC.



You came into a 4e forum directly attacking 4e. What did you expect to happen? That's called baiting.
#60

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:00:27 		The reason why i placed this in future releases section was because there won't be any more future releases for D&D minis and I wanted to voice my frustration with that.
#61

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:02:13 		Well i wasn't intentionally baiting.  Everyone took what I said in my first post as though I was personally attacking them.  When in fact I was just telling WOTC they suck.
#62

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:03:22 		Then voice frustration with that. Don't come into a forum for a specific game and start attacking that game. Again, that's baiting. It's going to be met with hostility. Your original post is 10% minis, 90% "4e sucks". Your intent was pretty clear.
#63

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:07:05 		I just used 4th edition to back up my minis statement to re-enforce the fact that i thought WOTC was making stupid decisions........True,  I don't have financial statements from WOTC to factually back my statements up.  I am just making a surface,  consumer observation without being a WOTC accountant.
#64

hanzo187

Jan 24, 2011 19:07:35


I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th.  If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes.  And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......
Its like they DUMBED it down for retards. 


I'm sorry? So now, the fact classes know what they're meant for is a bad thing? Wasn't the lack of a defined role the reason the monk had no love in 3e? Or the fact the wizard, cleric, and druid were so overpowered, they ruled the dungeons as gods in human(oid) form? The only conclusion I got from 3e was that it was about system mastery, not effective roleplaying. Martial classes were worthless in 3e against casters, so all I see is someone upset that his magical characters were on even footing with folks who don't require magic to put down their enemies.

And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born.  Which would lead into my earlier statement of "D&D 4th edition is an o.k. system,  its just nowhere near D&D". Thats just my opinion.


Grappling, trip, disarm, sunder, adjusting ability scores, modifers, skills, saves, and so on when a spell changed said ability, and the ever popular and RP-killing Save or Die effect. Sure, they're simple enough...if you want to spend 10 minutes writing down all the changes on your sheet instead of... oh, I don't know, actually playing the game, but hey, your perogative.

Oh, and about the retard crack: I'm four months from my doctorate, was magna **** laude when I got my Bachelor's, finished almost 4.0 in high school, can memorize the layout of a room with a 1 second glance, among other things. Huh, yeah, guess I'm a retard. Here's some advice: Watch who you talk to. And you know what? At least I've seen some knockers lately. Oh, I'm sorry, Cyderakk, was that too close to the belt? Remember this: YOU fanned the flames! YOU called 4e lovers retards, and I love 4e! I do have some problems with 4e, notably regarding errata and other issues, but that's not for here. Therefore, unless you have true constructive criticism, shut up!

Just consider this "all's fair in love and war". I'm finished.
#65

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 19:09:59

Olfactatron:

I used to play 2nd edition too.......but the change from 2nd to 3rd edition was nowhere near the difference between 3rd and 4th. 



If you think this is the case, then no, you didn't.   The change from 2nd to 3rd was tremendously drastic.  

 

If I placed a power from one class and a spell from a spellcasters class they'd look exactly the same.  Theres no difference between classes. 


Proof that you've never played 4th ed. 


And they had to tell you your roll in the party nowbecause players are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.....your the striker.......your the controller.......


The contraction of "you are" is "you're". 


And because a couple of little whiney tit-babies could'nt understand how SIMPLE mechanics worked in 3rd edition,  they had to go to the forums and reference the whinings of simple minded turds who were crying that grappling was sooooo hard........and 4th edition was born. 


I don't even know where to begin with this one.   4e is not much of a simplification.   It's still one of the most Rule/Crunch heavy RPGs on the market.   The main benefit of 4e is the system-wide redistribution of balancing factors.    


Gary Gygax and Dan arneson DID create D&D.  I don't know how that is an incorrect fact.


First:  It's Dave Arneson.   
Second:  I was objecting to the "coolest RPG ever."
It's not.  It is, without argument, the most groundbreaking.  But coolest is pretty subjective.  And the version they created was rife with objectively bad design.   


#66

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:11:40
 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb".



Not so.  You attacked everyone who enjoys 4e, whether they had insulted your not (heck whether they had participated in this thread or not), with the phrase 'dumbed down for retards'.

You doubly insulted me, btw, because I have a child with Down Syndrome and I hate, hate, HATE that particular word

#67

olfactatron

Jan 24, 2011 19:14:03
so have the moderator move it to the appropriate forum. 

I didn't attack the people I stated my opinion on a RPG system and they took it to be a personal attack.  I didn't insult any people until Olfactatron inferred that i was "Dumb". 

I don't know about you,  but for me,  when i am insulted I don't just stand there and take it.

I never said i was looking to convert people back to 3rd edition.  just said i thought it was a better system.  I know its a fact of life and beleive me,  I am over it.



I never inferred you were dumb. 
I implied it.  
You inferred it.

#68

brewdus

Jan 24, 2011 19:21:13 		Wow, the anger. I guess the edition wars are as hot as ever! How about this: we wait for 5th edition and insult all the guys that play that!
#69

hunterian7

Jan 24, 2011 19:22:36 		Yulck. I notice the same posters over and over getting all stirred up against posters who are angry with Wizards. They are getting as annoying and disruptive as those who bash. I wish both sides of the spectrum would go Away.
#70

brewdus

Jan 24, 2011 19:24:31 		Pathfinder>4e
#71

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:25:31
Pathfinder>4e




Oh YEAH!!

#72

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:29:56 		Hmmm, the last few posts firmly make a lie out of this


Didn't mean to make anyone mad.........just venting




 
#73

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:33:42 		Things kind of changed after my first post.......I didn't realize I could'nt voice my opinion without getting insulted personally.  And when i get personally insulted I am not just going to stand by and take it.  I give it back. 
#74

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:35:42 		As for the retard comment,  I didn't mean any insult twards actual Mentally retarded people. 

Its a dig on stupid people.
#75

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:36:16 		Yeah.  I'll bet.  That's why you chose to insult people who had nothing to do with this thread.

Makes perfect sense. 
#76

Nyarlathotep

Jan 24, 2011 19:36:50
As for the retard comment,  I didn't mean any insult twards actual Mentally retarded people. 

Its a dig on stupid people.




I doubt that too.
#77

Samrin

Jan 24, 2011 19:37:20
Things kind of changed after my first post.......I didn't realize I could'nt voice my opinion without getting insulted personally.  And when i get personally insulted I am not just going to stand by and take it.  I give it back. 



Once again, you came into a forum for a game and attacked that game and the people who play it. One can not read that post and not see an intent to start an edition war. We've seen it 100's of times. It's nothing new or original.
#78

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:38:30 		doubt all you like.  My advice,  don't be so sensative. 
#79

Cyderakk

Jan 24, 2011 19:39:18 		I could give a huge hooting dump for an edition war.  You guys are paranoid.
#80

ORC_Chaos

Jan 24, 2011 19:40:33 		Due to complaints received about this thread, I've closed it. The thread will be reviewed to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in it’s place.

ORC_Chaos