(Have I write well my post?)
Sigil’s original function made sense in the older version of the game’s cosmology. Now it has been reduced to a floating doughnut it has lost all its grandeur and significance to me.
@Luis: Did you have difficulties obtaining 2E box sets in other languages?
NO
Sigil’s original function made sense in the older version of the game’s cosmology. Now it has been reduced to a floating doughnut it has lost all its grandeur and significance to me.
@Luis: Did you have difficulties obtaining 2E box sets in other languages?
Bah. It is as good as it was before, maybe it lost some overrated aspects of before.
like FR, Planescape had critics, and serious ones.
NO
Sigil’s original function made sense in the older version of the game’s cosmology. Now it has been reduced to a floating doughnut it has lost all its grandeur and significance to me.
@Luis: Did you have difficulties obtaining 2E box sets in other languages?
Some times I have readen blog of the editor of current D&D Ed. here in Spain, and he said the box... was a...challenge to be published. It´s like... more expensive. And heres they are the "years of thin cows", I meant now the books of RPGs aren´t being sold like the earlier years. (Almost there aren´t anything of the new World of Darkness translated to Spanish).
he said the box... was a...challenge to be published.
I'm curious as to why this is. It can't simply be the linguistic translation can it? It sounds like it has to be some other factors which make it more difficult to port a box set to other markets internationally.
Personally I love the box sets. Give me the books and the maps and the tokens please! The production value of the boxes have been extraordinary, it's simply impossible for me to go back to my wet-erase mat now. Whether the next box set would be sigil... well see my Kara-tur post for my opinion of what I would like to see. Unfortunately it's clear from that thread that I am in the severe minority, but I simply cannot in good conscience cast my vote for sigil.
Sigil’s original function made sense in the older version of the game’s cosmology. Now it has been reduced to a floating doughnut it has lost all its grandeur and significance to me.Bah. It is as good as it was before, maybe it lost some overrated aspects of before.
like FR, Planescape had critics, and serious ones.
Everyone is a critic, I never liked any of the “expanded” campaign settings myself – including Planescape. But Sigil was designed as a safe haven for exploring the myriad (16) outer planes that connect to the Concordant Opposition (Outlands) where the City of Doors served as a gateway to anywhere.
With the change in 4E cosmology, regular access to portals, plane faring ships the purpose of Sigil has weaken significantly as a game tool. Yes, the Manual of the Planes discusses the Great Wheel, but this is an option and not a part of the Core design. Sigil’s time has come and gone, if you still want the old cosmolgy – buy it on E-bay.
And on the subject of the planes, the way I see it is that the Cosmology hasnt really changed, just mortals' perception of it has changed. Just lump all these planes under the Astral Plane, and throw the rest in the Abyss, those silly mortals.
Doesn't need to be a boxed set, merely a guide a la Neverwinter Campaign that updates the setting and realigns it with all things 4E.
Commissioning Monte Cook and Tony DiTerlizzi for the project are ABSOLUTE MUSTS! -- Am I asking too much?
Tony DiTerlizzi for the project are ABSOLUTE MUSTS! -- Am I asking too much?
Just like Brom should do all Dark Sun art (I know, impossible, but you gotta dream, baby), I remember when Baxa took over...
Is Sigil really cool enough to get focused on three separate times?
The simple answer is yes. Particularly as the most recent time it was "focused on" was utterly half-arsed, with them just having a very boring, faceless city at the center of the planes approach, and not even any good art. They shouldn't have had it in the DMG2, it served no purpose, frankly.
@Mrpopstar
Monte Cook?! You know ZEB Cook came up with the setting, right? No relation to Monte. All the really good, really cool stuff about PS? That comes from ZEB Cook. What Monte Cook did was to take over and, I'm afraid, utterly ruin the setting, by writing a series of World-of-Darkness-style metaplot-heavy adventures that selectively and repeatedly killed off many of the cool elements of the setting, including it's most defining element - "The Factions in Sigil". Allegedly he meant to fix it later, but never got the chance, and the half-arsed Sigil we have in the DMG2, where boring Three-Letter-Acronym councils run Sigil instead of the Factions (making Sigil more like some small, dull, US city in the mid-20th century than the center of the multiverse!) is directly the result of his unnecessary fiddling. I like a lot of Monte's stuff, but his PS work was not his finest hour...
I do like the Shadowfell boxed set from a content perspective and would enjoy seeing similar sets for other locations, I'm just not sure I would go to Sigil first. Dare I say a set about a location more like the Keep on the Borderlands, less exotic and planar and more usable in a lot of conventional campaigns, would be great to have as the "hometown" boxed set. If not the Keep, then maybe Threshold or Hommlet or a similar classic base location reimagined.
Whatever set they come out with, I'd much prefer boxes as sturdy as the Monster Vault or Dungeon Tiles Master Sets to the approach they used with Shadowfell.
L
What Monte Cook did was to take over and, I'm afraid, utterly ruin the setting, by writing a series of World-of-Darkness-style metaplot-heavy adventures that selectively and repeatedly killed off many of the cool elements of the setting, including it's most defining element - "The Factions in Sigil".
Totally, thank god a lot of PS fans act like that never happened, much like Exorcist II and The Godfather III; I can't stand when a novel or adventure writer comes along and takes a dump from a dizzy height on a campaign setting (again, nothing against Monte, he's done some great work, I mean in general); happened a bit with Dark Sun too (here's a new campaign setting, oh, 3 days later, half of it has changed).
Luckily Eberron escaped any of that.
Beyond that, while this is the sort of thing I'd normally be crazy interested in, I'd probably pass on it because I really doubt that they'd make Sigil as true to its original nature, themes, and setting. I don't see WotC at present being willing to present anything outside of the 'everything must work within the PoL default' thus we'd have swathes of the material rewritten to fit the default 4e conceits, we'd lack the Blood War, lack the major celestial races, lack yugoloths, have the whole primordials mythology pushed into the material, etc. I'd rather any product going into detail actually expand upon the original Sigil (either post Faction War or pre, I appreciate both), and be something either written by or overseen by some of the guys on the original team (McComb, Vallese, Zeb Cook, Monte Cook, etc).
Of course if any such product from WotC was made without having to adhere to 4e defaults I'd peddle souls to get on the project in any capacity. ;)
And Planescape could be rebooted-remade, to change some silly ideas. Admit it, nothing is perfect, and some parts of Planescape are bad or annoying. The Cant, by example, or the faux pompousnes ('Silly mortals, WE know TRUTH..')...
Monte Cook?! You know ZEB Cook came up with the setting, right? No relation to Monte. All the really good, really cool stuff about PS? That comes from ZEB Cook. What Monte Cook did was to take over and, I'm afraid, utterly ruin the setting, by writing a series of World-of-Darkness-style metaplot-heavy adventures that selectively and repeatedly killed off many of the cool elements of the setting, including it's most defining element - "The Factions in Sigil". Allegedly he meant to fix it later, but never got the chance, and the half-arsed Sigil we have in the DMG2, where boring Three-Letter-Acronym councils run Sigil instead of the Factions (making Sigil more like some small, dull, US city in the mid-20th century than the center of the multiverse!) is directly the result of his unnecessary fiddling. I like a lot of Monte's stuff, but his PS work was not his finest hour...
I view the canon as canon, am aware that Monte had every intention of building again, and wish to see what it was he had planned.
But if Zeb could return, all the better.
I'm sorry, Shemie, but a Planescape take on Primordials would be COOL, this is a part of the PoL I love quite. Fit the mystique well.
And Planescape could be rebooted-remade, to change some silly ideas. Admit it, nothing is perfect, and some parts of Planescape are bad or annoying. The Cant, by example, or the faux pompousnes ('Silly mortals, WE know TRUTH..')...
I liked the Cant AND the pompousness myself.
a series of World-of-Darkness-style metaplot-heavy adventures that selectively and repeatedly killed off many of the cool elements of the setting, including it's most ... (making Sigil more like some small, dull, US city in the mid-20th century than the center of the multiverse!)And Planescape could be rebooted-remade, to change some silly ideas. Admit it, nothing is perfect, and some parts of Planescape are bad or annoying. The Cant, by example, or the faux pompousnes ('Silly mortals, WE know TRUTH..')...
I liked the Cant AND the pompousness myself.
Ugh! It took the mystical 'multiverse' cosmology of AD&D, and turned it into a smug, goth-punk, WoD-ripoff, urban landfill of a setting, complete with lame slang. And, ironically, while trying to be all edgy and dangerous, tip-toeing around the words 'demons' and 'devil.'
To me, Sigil /always/ seemed more like a city plucked from the 20th century US (World of Darkness version), than the center of the universe.
a series of World-of-Darkness-style metaplot-heavy adventures that selectively and repeatedly killed off many of the cool elements of the setting, including it's most ... (making Sigil more like some small, dull, US city in the mid-20th century than the center of the multiverse!)And Planescape could be rebooted-remade, to change some silly ideas. Admit it, nothing is perfect, and some parts of Planescape are bad or annoying. The Cant, by example, or the faux pompousnes ('Silly mortals, WE know TRUTH..')...
I liked the Cant AND the pompousness myself.
Ugh! It took the mystical 'multiverse' cosmology of AD&D, and turned it into a smug, goth-punk, WoD-ripoff, urban landfill of a setting, complete with lame slang. And, ironically, while trying to be all edgy and dangerous, tip-toeing around the words 'demons' and 'devil.'
To me, Sigil /always/ seemed more like a city plucked from the 20th century US (World of Darkness version), than the center of the universe.
Good points. It was at times really ridiculous NOT edgy cool.
1.) making Sigil more like some small, dull, US city in the mid-20th century than the center of the multiverse!
2.) And, ironically, while trying to be all edgy and dangerous, tip-toeing around the words 'demons' and 'devil.'
1.) I totally know what you mean, but It was actually more like 1,800's London, and though I love Planescape (have had a campaign going since 2005), and am English (and live in London), I do not want my cool PS NPCs using lingo my mum uses: "Barmy" "Berk" "Potty" or what have you.
2.) Yeah, that whole late 80's/early 90's politically correct nightmare (which is still in full swing in many respects), but we still have a vestige, what with Baator being mentioned in The Plane Above, IIRC?
So, I would only buy a Sigil boxed set if it brought a new development of Sigil, and not such a reprint of the old with new rules.