3rd Party CBs? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3rd Party CBs?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
adamthedeadly
Mar 25, 2011 0:33:33 I was wondering, since the CB and the MB are about beyond redemption now, has anyone made a third party application that builds characters and has regular enough updates to account for the newest stuff, and actually, you know, works? Is this idea even legal? I think it is under fair use law.

Comments? Links? Am I going to have to learn programming language to get this done right?
#2
twesterm
Mar 25, 2011 0:49:57 I agree that the online monster builder is absolutely worthless and it's a massive slap in the face but the online character builder isn't bad (it's not good or up the level of the offline one but still not bad) and WotC was at least nice enough to not immediately take away the offline functional monster builder this time.

You and the others saying things like they're beyond redemption and what-not are being a bit of a drama queen. Yes, the Adventure Tools are pretty terrible at the moment and not even close to functional, but it will get better and, like I said, you still have the offline tools available.
#3
adamthedeadly
Mar 25, 2011 0:57:31 My biggest problem with the CB is that I cannot use it at my game. My GM has bad wireless internet and I am unable to access the CB at his house (odd, because other sites work. Perhaps a Silverlight problem). If I could find a working 3rd party CB, it would mean a much easier time adjusting my character in game to account for new items and such.

That said, I am seeing positive steps. I appreciate the error message now, whereas before I had to reload the page. I am not going to stop my subscription to D&DI, if only for the magazines now. But I would like to see these things done better.
#4
trebor_rjf
Mar 25, 2011 1:01:22 you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

#5
_Mithreinmaethor_
Mar 25, 2011 1:28:24
you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

Or he could just print the character to pdf and print it out or just use the pdf when playing at his DM's house.
#6
twesterm
Mar 25, 2011 1:32:25
My biggest problem with the CB is that I cannot use it at my game. My GM has bad wireless internet and I am unable to access the CB at his house (odd, because other sites work. Perhaps a Silverlight problem). If I could find a working 3rd party CB, it would mean a much easier time adjusting my character in game to account for new items and such.

That said, I am seeing positive steps. I appreciate the error message now, whereas before I had to reload the page. I am not going to stop my subscription to D&DI, if only for the magazines now. But I would like to see these things done better.

Couldn't you just print your character? It's not that huge of a deal and even if you don't have a printer, that's about $0.30 at Kinko's, hardly beyond redemption.

I agree getting items mid game can be a pain, but the math isn't that hard, just do what we all do and make pencil notes on the power card.
#7
adamthedeadly
Mar 25, 2011 1:46:12 I am sorry, I overreacted. I was frustrated at the new MB and vented that here inappropriately. I apologize. This whole thread was a stupid idea.
#8
twesterm
Mar 25, 2011 1:54:18
I am sorry, I overreacted. I was frustrated at the new MB and vented that here inappropriately. I apologize. This whole thread was a stupid idea.

Actually, I completely agree that the new monster builder is a giant slap in the face to every paying DDi subscriber. I'm actually even a little more angry that the offline monster builder stopped being supported and focus was shifted to the online one for the people in the VT beta.

Just think about that for a moment.

We're all paying for DDi but only a small group of subscribers are in the VT beta. So what did WotC do? Focus on the small group! Even though the offline version is the only working version, the not-working version gets the update with all new monsters.

So yeah, to say we're all a little annoyed with WotC is an understatement. Best I can say is just have patience. They did eventually make the online character builder decent, I'm sure they'll eventually do the same with the adventure tools. Maybe even one day they'll be as good as the offline versions were.

#9
frothsof
Mar 25, 2011 5:50:08 no harm adam ive done the same thing a million times
#10
Jharii
Mar 25, 2011 7:35:24 You could probably try Hero Lab. It has a 4E builder, although I have never used it. As for updates, I think if you maintain your DDI account, you can grab the data. I would research it first to ensure that it's okay to do as they suggest.

you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

You know, people also lived in caves for thousands of years, too. Do you live in a cave trebor? Things evolve and his request is far from unrealistic. Computers have been rather mainstream most of those same 30 years.

#11
Chameleon-X
Mar 25, 2011 8:02:26 I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels.
#12
devon101
Mar 25, 2011 10:07:16
you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

Trevor_rjf,

While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games.

What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on.

at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle.

This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules.
#13
devon101
Mar 25, 2011 10:08:36
I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels.

Chamelion, what is "CBC"?
#14
Mock
Mar 25, 2011 10:11:10
I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels.

Chamelion, what is "CBC"?

Character Builder Classic, the original offline version (as opposed to "OCB" or CBO, online character builder or character builder online, respectively)
#15
twesterm
Mar 25, 2011 18:26:13
you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

Trevor_rjf,

While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games.

What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on.

at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle.

This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules.

You know you don't have to use the character only at the table, right? You could actually print your character out before the game where you do have wifi and then bring it with you.

It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared...
#16
devon101
Mar 25, 2011 20:55:48
you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.

Trevor_rjf,

While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games.

What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on.

at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle.

This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules.

You know you don't have to use the character only at the table, right? You could actually print your character out before the game where you do have wifi and then bring it with you.

It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared...

twestern.
I have never ever ever used CB at the table. My wife and I even have a portable printer we have taken to conventions.

My point which I did not make efectivly is that the endless errata has made it very difficult to make a character without subscrining and having the charactor builder. I wasn't refering to the need to print or not print, I was refering to the reason I still subscribe even after management and staff at WOC have dropped the ball and thier standereds so many times.

Your last line says

"It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared" I agree.

However to be fully prepared and not surprised by the DM telling me that Magic Missle no longer works the way it did in my hardbound 35 dollar players handbook....I haev to use CB,

So to recap, I own a printer and use a printer....My post was refering to the fact that using a pen and paper to create a charactor has been made challenging by the errata.

Hope I have been clear.
#17
trebor_rjf
Mar 25, 2011 22:06:05 you've all misinterpreted me it seems, i didnt mean that he should abandon the sb completely. i meant that he just print his character out and pencil in the minor changes at the table without lugging his laptop to the game.
#18
jehojen
Mar 29, 2011 18:55:47

My point which I did not make efectivly is that the endless errata has made it very difficult to make a character without subscrining and having the charactor builder. I wasn't refering to the need to print or not print, I was refering to the reason I still subscribe even after management and staff at WOC have dropped the ball and thier standereds so many times.

[...]

However to be fully prepared and not surprised by the DM telling me that Magic Missle no longer works the way it did in my hardbound 35 dollar players handbook....I haev to use CB,

So to recap, I own a printer and use a printer....My post was refering to the fact that using a pen and paper to create a charactor has been made challenging by the errata.

I hate it when people complain about "too much errata" or that "the rules change so frequently that..."

It isn't as if the rules of the game change every other day. Or even every other week. And for the most part, the changes that do get made will only affect a fraction of the player base.

If you play as often as you are insinuating, you should already know the major changes. And for the minor ones, just double check the errata. As far as I've seen its not hard. "Power X comes from book Y. Let me check the errata for that book and see if this has been changed." After looking through the errata once or twice to find powers you'll start to get the hang of what has been changed, and you won't even need to check every time.

Or, you know, don't. Then when you get to the game and the DM tells you that magic missle has changed, note it and move on. Unless you built your entire character to be "ZOMG! SO AWESOME!!!1!!!1!!" around a single at-will spell, it shouldn't change your experience too much at the table.

It's not as if you're creating over a hundred characters to actually be played.And the only reason you'd be making that many characters is because you're bored and playing around with the character builder in the first place.

Is it easier with the character builder? You bet your bottom dollar it is! Is it hard without the character builder to keep up with the amount of errata that is put out? No. Just use that portable printer of yours and print the errata. Done.

Sorry for the rant.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 adamthedeadly Mar 25, 2011 0:33:33	I was wondering, since the CB and the MB are about beyond redemption now, has anyone made a third party application that builds characters and has regular enough updates to account for the newest stuff, and actually, you know, works? Is this idea even legal? I think it is under fair use law. Comments? Links? Am I going to have to learn programming language to get this done right?
#2 twesterm Mar 25, 2011 0:49:57	I agree that the online monster builder is absolutely worthless and it's a massive slap in the face but the online character builder isn't bad (it's not good or up the level of the offline one but still not bad) and WotC was at least nice enough to not immediately take away the offline functional monster builder this time. You and the others saying things like they're beyond redemption and what-not are being a bit of a drama queen. Yes, the Adventure Tools are pretty terrible at the moment and not even close to functional, but it will get better and, like I said, you still have the offline tools available.
#3 adamthedeadly Mar 25, 2011 0:57:31	My biggest problem with the CB is that I cannot use it at my game. My GM has bad wireless internet and I am unable to access the CB at his house (odd, because other sites work. Perhaps a Silverlight problem). If I could find a working 3rd party CB, it would mean a much easier time adjusting my character in game to account for new items and such. That said, I am seeing positive steps. I appreciate the error message now, whereas before I had to reload the page. I am not going to stop my subscription to D&DI, if only for the magazines now. But I would like to see these things done better.
#4 trebor_rjf Mar 25, 2011 1:01:22	you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem.
#5 _Mithreinmaethor_ Mar 25, 2011 1:28:24	you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem. Or he could just print the character to pdf and print it out or just use the pdf when playing at his DM's house.
#6 twesterm Mar 25, 2011 1:32:25	My biggest problem with the CB is that I cannot use it at my game. My GM has bad wireless internet and I am unable to access the CB at his house (odd, because other sites work. Perhaps a Silverlight problem). If I could find a working 3rd party CB, it would mean a much easier time adjusting my character in game to account for new items and such. That said, I am seeing positive steps. I appreciate the error message now, whereas before I had to reload the page. I am not going to stop my subscription to D&DI, if only for the magazines now. But I would like to see these things done better. Couldn't you just print your character? It's not that huge of a deal and even if you don't have a printer, that's about $0.30 at Kinko's, hardly beyond redemption. I agree getting items mid game can be a pain, but the math isn't that hard, just do what we all do and make pencil notes on the power card.
#7 adamthedeadly Mar 25, 2011 1:46:12	I am sorry, I overreacted. I was frustrated at the new MB and vented that here inappropriately. I apologize. This whole thread was a stupid idea.
#8 twesterm Mar 25, 2011 1:54:18	I am sorry, I overreacted. I was frustrated at the new MB and vented that here inappropriately. I apologize. This whole thread was a stupid idea. Actually, I completely agree that the new monster builder is a giant slap in the face to every paying DDi subscriber. I'm actually even a little more angry that the offline monster builder stopped being supported and focus was shifted to the online one for the people in the VT beta. Just think about that for a moment. We're all paying for DDi but only a small group of subscribers are in the VT beta. So what did WotC do? Focus on the small group! Even though the offline version is the only working version, the not-working version gets the update with all new monsters. So yeah, to say we're all a little annoyed with WotC is an understatement. Best I can say is just have patience. They did eventually make the online character builder decent, I'm sure they'll eventually do the same with the adventure tools. Maybe even one day they'll be as good as the offline versions were.
#9 frothsof Mar 25, 2011 5:50:08	no harm adam ive done the same thing a million times
#10 Jharii Mar 25, 2011 7:35:24	You could probably try Hero Lab. It has a 4E builder, although I have never used it. As for updates, I think if you maintain your DDI account, you can grab the data. I would research it first to ensure that it's okay to do as they suggest. you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem. You know, people also lived in caves for thousands of years, too. Do you live in a cave trebor? Things evolve and his request is far from unrealistic. Computers have been rather mainstream most of those same 30 years.
#11 Chameleon-X Mar 25, 2011 8:02:26	I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels.
#12 devon101 Mar 25, 2011 10:07:16	you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem. Trevor_rjf, While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games. What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on. at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle. This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules.
#13 devon101 Mar 25, 2011 10:08:36	I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels. Chamelion, what is "CBC"?
#14 Mock Mar 25, 2011 10:11:10	I just use the CBC. With a little help from the online community, lack of updates isn't even a problem for me. I have Dark Sun, essentials, and all the latest magazine content right there when I want it. I'm still paying for DDI in the off-chance things will improve, but I'm not going to wait while WotC spins their wheels. Chamelion, what is "CBC"? Character Builder Classic, the original offline version (as opposed to "OCB" or CBO, online character builder or character builder online, respectively)
#15 twesterm Mar 25, 2011 18:26:13	you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem. Trevor_rjf, While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games. What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on. at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle. This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules. You know you don't have to use the character only at the table, right? You could actually print your character out before the game where you do have wifi and then bring it with you. It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared...
#16 devon101 Mar 25, 2011 20:55:48	you know buddy, people made and updated characters for over 30 years before the online cb came out. either tough it out wit ha pencil or help your dm fix his router problem. Trevor_rjf, While I have indeed used pencils and papers and created many charactors for many games. What you have not factored into your response is the endless stream of errata that this system is base on. at least some of the material in most if not all of the books I purchased no longer valid.....how often rogues can use sneak attack, how the multi class for avenger works, magic missle. This makes charactor builder invaluable for poeple who play in non weekly games as it is the baseline for the ever changing rules. You know you don't have to use the character only at the table, right? You could actually print your character out before the game where you do have wifi and then bring it with you. It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared... twestern. I have never ever ever used CB at the table. My wife and I even have a portable printer we have taken to conventions. My point which I did not make efectivly is that the endless errata has made it very difficult to make a character without subscrining and having the charactor builder. I wasn't refering to the need to print or not print, I was refering to the reason I still subscribe even after management and staff at WOC have dropped the ball and thier standereds so many times. Your last line says "It's really not too much to ask players to be actually prepared" I agree. However to be fully prepared and not surprised by the DM telling me that Magic Missle no longer works the way it did in my hardbound 35 dollar players handbook....I haev to use CB, So to recap, I own a printer and use a printer....My post was refering to the fact that using a pen and paper to create a charactor has been made challenging by the errata. Hope I have been clear.
#17 trebor_rjf Mar 25, 2011 22:06:05	you've all misinterpreted me it seems, i didnt mean that he should abandon the sb completely. i meant that he just print his character out and pencil in the minor changes at the table without lugging his laptop to the game.
#18 jehojen Mar 29, 2011 18:55:47	My point which I did not make efectivly is that the endless errata has made it very difficult to make a character without subscrining and having the charactor builder. I wasn't refering to the need to print or not print, I was refering to the reason I still subscribe even after management and staff at WOC have dropped the ball and thier standereds so many times. [...] However to be fully prepared and not surprised by the DM telling me that Magic Missle no longer works the way it did in my hardbound 35 dollar players handbook....I haev to use CB, So to recap, I own a printer and use a printer....My post was refering to the fact that using a pen and paper to create a charactor has been made challenging by the errata. I hate it when people complain about "too much errata" or that "the rules change so frequently that..." It isn't as if the rules of the game change every other day. Or even every other week. And for the most part, the changes that do get made will only affect a fraction of the player base. If you play as often as you are insinuating, you should already know the major changes. And for the minor ones, just double check the errata. As far as I've seen its not hard. "Power X comes from book Y. Let me check the errata for that book and see if this has been changed." After looking through the errata once or twice to find powers you'll start to get the hang of what has been changed, and you won't even need to check every time. Or, you know, don't. Then when you get to the game and the DM tells you that magic missle has changed, note it and move on. Unless you built your entire character to be "ZOMG! SO AWESOME!!!1!!!1!!" around a single at-will spell, it shouldn't change your experience too much at the table. It's not as if you're creating over a hundred characters to actually be played.And the only reason you'd be making that many characters is because you're bored and playing around with the character builder in the first place. Is it easier with the character builder? You bet your bottom dollar it is! Is it hard without the character builder to keep up with the amount of errata that is put out? No. Just use that portable printer of yours and print the errata. Done. Sorry for the rant.