Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game?
Already did.
Already did.
Then why are you still on the D&Di boards? Again, I'm just curious.
Then why are you still on the D&Di boards? Again, I'm just curious.
Why blame the customer for poor service? Just curious.
Then why are you still on the D&Di boards? Again, I'm just curious.
You've never looked at a car accident as you drove by?
Then why are you still on the D&Di boards? Again, I'm just curious.
Hoping to get s/g for the $ I paid if only being able to give it to a friend. I understand that since you have just joined this community you might have a lot of questions. Maybe you should lurk for a few more months...
You people are hostile. I have looked at a car accident as I drove by, but I didn't stop and turn around to look over and over again, just to complain how bad it looked. :P
I just wanted to know if people would accept the 4Ed game even if D&Di never materializes. Obviously that is a resounding "NO" for some.
Yes, I just joined, but I've been reading these boards for a long time. And I've been playing D&D since the 80's as a DM and a player. I understand negative opinions, but hostility never helps. If you like 4Ed without D&Di, fine. If you don't, fine. It's a free country. I was just asking.
Anyone out there able to answer the question without attacking? :D
4th ed is heavily dependant on positioning which makes a battle grid almost mandatory for anykind of efficient gameplay, I bought 4th ed because gamers I knew where raving about how nice DDi would be and that we could start up some online games, my goal for the system was playing with people I knew remotely, and without a reasonable VTT that plan gets shot down. I've got plenty of other systemsI enjoy playing and DDi tools was the only thing setting 4th ed apart.
Thanks for the reply. That's the kind of thing I was curious about. I am interested in the D&Di tools for the same reasons you mentioned. But I'm willing to give 4Ed a try without them. I really do hope they make it, though.
Thanks for the reply. That's the kind of thing I was curious about. I am interested in the D&Di tools for the same reasons you mentioned. But I'm willing to give 4Ed a try without them. I really do hope they make it, though.
I've already been enjoying 4E without DDI, in fact, I'm ready to completely wash my hands of 3.5.
With GenCon around the corner, and the RPGA launching Living Forgotten Realms, I'll only be getting more D&D in in the next month - DDI or no.
As someone else said - DDI is the icing on the cake. The cake, for me, is still good.
Actually WotC will have to compete against that for my business with DDI.:D
When I do prep now, I get to concentrate on the funner elements of preparation as opposed to being bogged down in complex stat blocks.
Most of my players seem to enjoy 4e more as well. (There is one exception, but he is actually just a contrary person.)
Hope this helps,
~~JM
I actually didn't hear about DDI until I saw the back insert in 4E- I shut myself off to a lot of tabletop gaming news, so the only thing I heard were second-hand accounts of the new gameplay features, which really worked out. The funny part is that the first thing I thought when I saw the insert was how identical it was to the 3.0 character generator insert. Look how right I was!
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider?
Look on the general forums. Some people love it, some people hate it, some folks are still trying it out, some aren't sure, etc.
A LOT of the talk lately has been about people hating that they were "duped" into buying the books because they thought D&Di would be so wonderful. Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game?
I doubt most existing players will drop 4e due to lack of D&DI. They already have existing gaming groups, they have already tried the gaming system, etc. Ultimately, they will move to 4e for their normal games if they like it better than 3e. If you were only interested in D&DI... then you would likely wait for it to come out before buying the books.
I think the larger group to feel con'd by D&DI are new players. You don't have a gaming group, you don't know where to find one, you can't go play at stranger's houses, your local gaming stores don't run events, etc. ... so you buy 4e with the expectation that D&DI will allow you to find groups and play onliney to try out the game. For this group, lack of D&DI means an immediately dropping of 4e (and likely D&D in general). They buy the books, read them over, go online, can't find anything, and in a few weeks or months of no D&DI can't find a group, can't get into a game, and give up.
I'm not sure how many new players vs. existing players bought 4e. IMO, not many. There are 4.5 million people currently playing 3.x and somewhere like two million 4e books pre-made -- since there are three books, that might be say one million people or so (even if stores sold all the pre-made books). Highly unlikely that most of these were new players.
I'm new. Is there news that D&Di won't be released as advertised at all? I actually did get interested in D&D again primarily because of the possibility of playing it remotely with friends.
I'm guessing people are just ****** because the introduction of the online tools has just been delayed?
As for the 4E rules, etc I really appreciate the streamlining that's been done. I was a HUGE D&D nerd back in the 80's with the 1st edition stuff, but began losing interested after the intro of 2E and the seeming complexity that went along with it.
I will be sorely disappointed if D&Di doesn't ever materialize as billed.
And as the previous poster said, yeah I'm pretty much a new player since I haven't gamed for about 15+ years. I'm not willing to go to the local gaming store and play with the kids there. As a 39 year-old I'd feel really awkward doing that. I wouldn't, though, mind playing across the internet with like minded folks.
Hi guys,
I'm new. Is there news that D&Di won't be released as advertised at all? I actually did get interested in D&D again primarily because of the possibility of playing it remotely with friends.
I'm guessing people are just ****** because the introduction of the online tools has just been delayed?
As for the 4E rules, etc I really appreciate the streamlining that's been done. I was a HUGE D&D nerd back in the 80's with the 1st edition stuff, but began losing interested after the intro of 2E and the seeming complexity that went along with it.
I will be sorely disappointed if D&Di doesn't ever materialize as billed.
And as the previous poster said, yeah I'm pretty much a new player since I haven't gamed for about 15+ years. I'm not willing to go to the local gaming store and play with the kids there. As a 39 year-old I'd feel really awkward doing that. I wouldn't, though, mind playing across the internet with like minded folks.
To date there's been nothing aside from speculation to indicate that the DDI tools won't be released as promised eventually.
There are many people who believe the tools are and will remain vaporware, and draw a direct parallel to the MasterTools/E-Tools debacle as proof enough.
What's important to note is that WotC is using a different design company to write the code, and has more incentive to release the tools, if only because with a monthly fee, it could become a decent source of additional monthly revenue.
Ultimately, I choose to take WotC at face value. They tell us the tools are coming, I've no reason to doubt that. They might change their minds "tomorrow" and scrap the project, but until I hear it from them, I won't believe it.
I'm new. Is there news that D&Di won't be released as advertised at all?
No. It is pretty clear that D&DI is delayed by many months and that WotC had no real plan to handle the delay. There is a lot of skeptism about the release - especially that the character creation, magazines, etc. and other tools weren't ready - but ultimately there is no real reason to think that it will never be released. They demo'd it earier in the year, so we know something exists.
I'm not willing to go to the local gaming store and play with the kids there. As a 39 year-old I'd feel really awkward doing that. I wouldn't, though, mind playing across the internet with like minded folks.
Don't. The average age of a D&D player is now likely thirty-something. Younger kids rarely get into the game due to the costs, time/effort to learn the game, and difficulty in finding gaming groups -- a 12-year-old can't just drive over to some stranger's house for an evening of D&D.
Most game days, RPGA events, conventions, comic shop games, etc. are typically frequented by adults. Certainly most of the organizers of the games are adults -- since they have the time, money, maturity, and experience to deal with the comic shop, order the games, and run them.
Hi guys,
I'm new. Is there news that D&Di won't be released as advertised at all? I actually did get interested in D&D again primarily because of the possibility of playing it remotely with friends.
I'm guessing people are just ****** because the introduction of the online tools has just been delayed?
As for the 4E rules, etc I really appreciate the streamlining that's been done. I was a HUGE D&D nerd back in the 80's with the 1st edition stuff, but began losing interested after the intro of 2E and the seeming complexity that went along with it.
I will be sorely disappointed if D&Di doesn't ever materialize as billed.
And as the previous poster said, yeah I'm pretty much a new player since I haven't gamed for about 15+ years. I'm not willing to go to the local gaming store and play with the kids there. As a 39 year-old I'd feel really awkward doing that. I wouldn't, though, mind playing across the internet with like minded folks.
D&DI is still planned, but no date has been released. The deal about it is that Wizards has never successfully released any piece of software on time and to spec. A lot of people gave them the benefit of the doubt initially, but when you have so much stuff going wrong, it's usually time to assume that this one is going to go just like everyone one before it.
My position is that I am not thrilled with the 4E system, but the possibility of hooking up with old gaming buddies is enough to convert me to it. I don't hate 4E, but I don't love it. I guess I think it is mediocre. So there is no reason for me to play without DDI.
You don't have to play 4e to utilize some form of online gameplay. My group uses Gametable, and Ventrillo. Both free. There are tons of other tools that you can use. My group will be trying out DDI, but it's not a sure bet.
If you like 3.x, and your group is willing to play it, rather than move to 4e, stay with the system you like, and get one of those tools.
1. I can understand not having all of the tools ready for launch, but for a virgin game system trying to win over old players and gain a new generation of game players there is one tool out to the tool set thgat should have been available at launch. The character generator. Character generation is the first thing players are going to want to play around with and often screw up do to errors in reading the the creation process. I have more *****ing on just the chracter generator part (not to speak of the character visualizer which I think they can scrap since the images I seen so far form the one in development in ther demo videos produces pretty crappy looking 3D characters that aren't even as nice as the one that was made for Neverwinter Nights 2). The next most logical too lto have available to people after the character generator would have been the 2D mapper so people could start making 4E (and hell even 3E and whatever else) maps.
2. Number 2. Online tutorials via a myspace page (or its like) or video blog page (right here on DnDInsider) with some of the demo games or at least some quick tutorials on how to make a character and the basic concepts of the new combat system. Thats right I said video audio Pod casts reallydon't cut it anymore well at least not for a company like WoC or Hasbro. I understand that WoC wants people to buy the books to figure this all out but a couple simple tutorials would only help not hinder the sales for these new books. Speaking of the books here we go with Number 3...
3. Ok last rant for now is one more than I was going to list becuase this isn't specifically about the web type elements of 4E. The collectors edition was nothing but a slipcase? and not any cheaper? WTF. OK I can understand it not being any cheaper hell I'd even have paid say $5-$10 more for it than the individual books if it came with something I mean anything. The perfect thing would have been for it to come with either the demo characters used in the demo game that WoC did around the country or even better and at neglible cost would have been to include the DM Screen with the slip case.
... Ok sorry about that extra one but I was on a roll. I'll post my full top ten things WoC D&D Marketting and Dev teams shoul have done for 4th Edition soon.
I've already been enjoying 4E without DDI, in fact, I'm ready to completely wash my hands of 3.5.
With GenCon around the corner, and the RPGA launching Living Forgotten Realms, I'll only be getting more D&D in in the next month - DDI or no.
As someone else said - DDI is the icing on the cake. The cake, for me, is still good.
Yeah. My group got the books right out of the gate and we're all pretty happy with it. DDi wasn't really going to add much to how we played but we've enjoyed the 4e experience so far.
I like 4th edition and plan to play it at RPGA tournaments. I loved 3rd and 3.5 edition but I have accepted that 4th edition is the way of the future...until around 2 years from now when 4.5 edition comes out....
I was looking forward to DDi because I moved 2 years ago to another state and I haven’t been able to play anymore since my gaming group didn’t move with me. I’m very disappointed with the failure to launch DDi on time but then again most old players probably remember that TSR/Wizard/Hasbro have been notoriously bad at anything etool-like. I remember waiting for years for them to put out character makers, map makers and pretty much everything else that was related to a computer.
What is really upsetting is the lack of information I know they are working hard to have this working as fast as possible, after all 15 dollars a month is good money and this is a business but would it really kill them to make a weekly report and post it on the forum for us to read.
I will be playing 4th edition at RPGA tournaments as soon as I can but what I really want is to be able to play with my friends again. And yes I want DDI also because Im 45 years old, work 10 hours a day and I'm too lazy to actually make a character with just pencil and paper.
Thank you
Tony
I was looking forward to DDi because I moved 2 years ago to another state and I haven’t been able to play anymore since my gaming group didn’t move with me.
what I really want is to be able to play with my friends again.
So what's stopping you? There are around 40 alternative virtual tabletop programs already available.
So what's stopping you? There are around 40 alternative virtual tabletop programs already available.
Yes, there are. My own old group is now looking into alternatives to DDi, which is in part due to suggestions of forum goers here.
Alot of people who are 'out of the loop' and coming back or new to the game, are not aware of all the alternatives.
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider?
At first, I was really disappointed. I felt that the books were my first step into the bigger DDI experience, and that I'd be able to take advantage of both simultaneously. I hadn't played D&D since the mid-80s (I'm 42), and I'll admit that the "gee whiz" factor of DDI that was publicized starting last year was the hook that made me come back to take a fresh look at D&D, and RPGs in general.
So that first week after release of the Core books -- especially with the relative lack of information as to what was going on -- was pretty disappointing. Expectations were set and missed, and I was sort of "Well, now what am I going to do with my $70 worth of books?"
Well, hey, here's an idea (I told myself). Read the books. Play the game. Create some characters. Start designing a dungeon. Start (thinking about, at least) designing a full adventure.
Find out what else is going in D&D. I might as well be a newbie, because I didn't really know all that much about minis, the RPGA, Eberron, FR and so on. You can miss a lot when you take 20 years off.
What is d20 and OGL and GSL, and do I really care? What 3PP stuff is there or will be coming for 4E? What other forums are out there, like ENWorld and RPG net, and are they not quite as bats*** as the WOTC board, and why? Do I ever want to buy a WOTC product with the words "Character Sheets" in it ever again (haha)?So it was a mixed blessing. I didn't get what I wanted, but there has been plenty to keep me busy and engaged. I'll probably be a better player and DM because of it, and because I wasn't distracted by DDI's shiny thing. I'm extremely impressed with 4E in terms of its ruleset, its simplicity, the presentation of the products (except for the aforementioned Sheets, haha). Frankly, I think the game has come a long way since TSR, almost all of it for the better. I'm not qualified to say it's a great game, but it's a great game for ME. BTW, along the way in the past few weeks, I did pick up the 3.5 PHB, and while I have come to understand how much people love that version of the game, it would never have brought me back into the game. The promise of DDI may be what lured me to 4E in the first place, but as it turns out it was 4E itself that has returned me to the hobby.
And, speaking of, I still have DDI to look forward to. I do hope it's soon because it does seem promising. In the meantime, I've checked out the numerous VTT options out there, and may jump into one should the DDI version get pushed further out.
BTW, one feeling that has grown over the past few weeks is that I'm not certain that "D&D" and "The Internet" are necessarily all that good of a mix. Like many things, The Internet seems to bring out the worst in some people, especially on boards like this. I think I've said it elsewhere, but I'm pretty appalled by the behavior of a lot of gamers here, especially when they don't get what they want or feel that they're owed. It seems there's very little respect here for each other, for the WOTC employees who work on the game, the site, and DDI, and for others in the RPG industry. I wouldn't be surprised if some people get their core books, get excited and log on here for the first time, and run away to never look back. It just seems to me that "back in my day", we had a lot more respect for each other as players, and for TSR and the developers and artists. But that could just be rosey glasses, or a sign of the inevitable transition pains from one version to the next, or amplified by the Internet, or all of the above. I'm just astounded by the degree of negativity that surrounds what is supposed to be a fun hobby.
In any case, at this time, with or without DDI, I'm very pleased with 4E and my D&D experience overall. I do hope that once more rolls out and within a few months, that things will cool down a little and there will be more focus on the fun.
Anyways, I still play 4th ed. I enjoy it. It's a fine system. I'd like to be able to use the tools if they're ever released, and I expect they will be with time. After being a video game enthusiast for twenty years, you sort of learn that delays are very, very common. Look how long I had to wait for games like Oblivion, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, Warcraft 3, BioShock, on down the line...
Sure is a lot of pent up rage in this forum. My 2 cents: Don't flip out on someone or be a ***** because someone asked you about something you're not too happy about. Tends to make you look bad, y'know?
My 2 cents: Don't flip out on someone or be a ***** because someone didn't give you the answer you want. Tends to make you look bad, y'know?
Anyways, I still play 4th ed. I enjoy it. It's a fine system. I'd like to be able to use the tools if they're ever released, and I expect they will be with time. After being a video game enthusiast for twenty years, you sort of learn that delays are very, very common. Look how long I had to wait for games like Oblivion, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, Warcraft 3, BioShock, on down the line...
Yes, Yes we know software is hard but none of those were Vaporware used to boost the sales of another product to the best of my knowledge.
I really consider this borderline charlatan tactics, like Bait and Switch. I'm sure that sounds offensive, but there's very little proving otherwise; here... a month later.
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider? A LOT of the talk lately has been about people hating that they were "duped" into buying the books because they thought D&Di would be so wonderful. Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game? I personally didn't buy the books because of D&Di, so it's a moot point for me, but I do like the idea of the D&Di tools. Anyone else out there see the D&Di tools as a useful add-on to the game rather than a make or break component?
I haven't been "duped" into anything as I have not purchased the 4E books. My current books work fine, thankyouverymuch. My only reason for considering 4E is the DDI. If it ever gets fully functional, I'm all in for 4E, but only online. If not, as I've said, my current books work fine, thankyouverymuch.
DM tools, dungeon builder stuff and anything that can't help players and DM's alike to get up and playing by minimalizing Prep Time which will allow DM's to concentrate more on their stories and improv (in reaction to players) would be a tremendous help.
Everyone has work schedules to contend with and or any of the following:Children, School, Sport Practice, Church, Marriage, Dates, Friends, other social activities and just plain old Family events.
This isn't easy no matter what edition so I don't think DDi is a make or break for any edition rule set necessarily IT WOULD JUST BE WELL FOR THEM TO HAVE IT FOR EVERY Edition
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider? A LOT of the talk lately has been about people hating that they were "duped" into buying the books because they thought D&Di would be so wonderful. Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game? I personally didn't buy the books because of D&Di, so it's a moot point for me, but I do like the idea of the D&Di tools. Anyone else out there see the D&Di tools as a useful add-on to the game rather than a make or break component?
I bought 4e for Living Forgotten Realms, which I intended to play online with the game table assuming the mods would be written with that in mind.
Now it looks like it could be months if not years before D&DI is working bug free. And I don't like 4e enough to have it replace any of my existing campaigns.
It is just disappointing that there is the potential to get more people into the hobby through more online games and through easier real world game preparation. I'm not sure the decision makers at WOTC really understand the opportunity they are missing.
This isn't even an edition issue, a lot of the planned functions of DDI have been possible for years. Since the game table doesn't adjucate rules it didn't need to be tied to 4th, it would have worked for 3rd.
Yes, Yes we know software is hard but none of those were Vaporware used to boost the sales of another product to the best of my knowledge.
... are you saying d&di is vaporware?
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider? A LOT of the talk lately has been about people hating that they were "duped" into buying the books because they thought D&Di would be so wonderful. Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game? I personally didn't buy the books because of D&Di, so it's a moot point for me, but I do like the idea of the D&Di tools. Anyone else out there see the D&Di tools as a useful add-on to the game rather than a make or break component?
For me, we just started recently, and I just purchased the books for myself. DDI has never been more than an overpriced add-on that has more stuff than I want. If the Insider never sees the light of day it won't make a difference to me or my group.
I'm just curious. How do people feel about 4Ed without D&D Insider? A LOT of the talk lately has been about people hating that they were "duped" into buying the books because they thought D&Di would be so wonderful. Okay, it's obviously not here, so if it never sees the light of day, how many are actually going to dump the game? I personally didn't buy the books because of D&Di, so it's a moot point for me, but I do like the idea of the D&Di tools. Anyone else out there see the D&Di tools as a useful add-on to the game rather than a make or break component?
I am not going to dump the game, but that is because the game works for me since I have live friends to play D&D with to begin with.
One thing I didn't realize was that this delay is costing Wizards dearly because rather simply, some people WITHOUT live friends to game with (meaning friends who can drop by their house) were buying 4th edition with the hopes of being able to hook up with others online to play it. Now with this delay, and the full product being potentially months away, they are upset to the point of willingly dumping the game and potentially never looking back.
It is sad, and it saddens me more to hear people talk about this. I honestly didn't realize there were people looking to 4th edition as their first chance to hook up with any real players.
I can say I am genuinely PO'd at Wizards about this, having heard that they only allocated 14 months towards this software's development. That was an awful mistake on their part, and they didn't account for any POSSIBLE delays.
Now I understand Wizards wanted to put out 4e as a base product. I also understand them wanting to announce the UPCOMING online capability. But they insinuated if not flat out SAID that that the new online capabilities would be here by now. Not only are "not all" of them here, but only one singular function is working, the compendium. Which is without a doubt the most BASIC of tools, and even that wasn't available at launch.
The launch day was a farce of course. Launched DDi which had.....nothing. It in fact had NOTHING. Even the Dungeon and Dragon articles took a couple of days.
I was wrong to have said before that the DDi functions were just extra, because I had not realized people had bought the game rightfully expecting there to be online capability, in fact they were counting on it.
I like 4e, I do. But I am upset.