Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 eberg Jul 08, 2011 8:24:30	In the class list, some of the sub-classes have had their base class changed to the name of the new sub-class designation. So, instead of (Fighter), it will be (Weaponmaster) or (Arcanist) instead of (Wizard). Also, I believe Human Slayers should be allowed to choose a third At-Will stance.
#2 RedSiegfried Jul 08, 2011 13:31:19	In the class list, some of the sub-classes have had their base class changed to the name of the new sub-class designation. So, instead of (Fighter), it will be (Weaponmaster) or (Arcanist) instead of (Wizard). That's right, and it was intentional.  With the introduction of Essentials they're renaming some of the classes to fit more into the Essentials class/subclass structure.  The renaming has no game effect whatsoever.  Not all of them have been renamed yet, but they will be.  The change is somewhat controversial, but the only thing it changes is the name of your class (and cause people to get confused sometimes). Also, I believe Human Slayers should be allowed to choose a third At-Will stance. If you press the New button when you create a character it will create a character with only Essentials options, which are fewer and simpler, but just as good (that's opinion, kinda).  In Essentials characters, Humans don't get a choice for their racial power - they just automatically get Heroic Effort.  If you choose Custom and then Home Campaign at the startup screen you can then use ANY game element and you can then choose Heroic Effort OR a third at-will power.  However, if you choose Custom and create a Human Slayer (Weaponmaster) with a third at-will, you still won't get a third STANCE, but you will be able to select a 1st level Fighter at-will as your third power. What it comes down to is you either create a pure Essentials elements character with New or a character with all sorts of options with Custom.  So basically if you want that third at-will power you will need to recreate your character using the Custom option.
#3 eberg Jul 08, 2011 13:38:58	That's right, and it was intentional.  With the introduction of Essentials they're renaming some of the classes to fit more into the Essentials class/subclass structure.  The renaming has no game effect whatsoever.  Not all of them have been renamed yet, but they will be.  The change is somewhat controversial, but the only thing it changes is the name of your class (and cause people to get confused sometimes). No, you are misunderstanding. The "base class" for some of the new sub-classes has been changed to match the new sub-class name for the original PHB version of the class. So the mage is listed as Mage (Arcanist) rather than Mage (Wizard) and the Slayer is listed as Slayer (Weaponmaster) rather than Slayer (Fighter). It looks like someone got a little too happy with the find-and-replace. However, if you choose Custom and create a Human Slayer (Weaponmaster) with a third at-will, you still won't get a third STANCE, but you will be able to select a 1st level Fighter at-will as your third power. Just double-checked and saw that the human At-Will perk specifies an attack power. Which is sad, because having a third stance doesn't strike me as unbalancing. An extraneous 1st level Fighter attack power isn't as useful to a Weaponmaster, who is built to use basic attacks.
#4 RedSiegfried Jul 08, 2011 14:45:06	No, you are misunderstanding. The "base class" for some of the new sub-classes has been changed to match the new sub-class name for the original PHB version of the class. So the mage is listed as Mage (Arcanist) rather than Mage (Wizard) and the Slayer is listed as Slayer (Weaponmaster) rather than Slayer (Fighter). It looks like someone got a little too happy with the find-and-replace. Whether one considers this a bug, an inconsistency in labelling (probably same thing as a bug), a work in progress or exactly how it should be, is hotly debated at this moment.  If you haven't seen this thread already, check it out: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... What I'm getting from you is that you consider it a bug to be fixed.  I just consider it a mess and wish they hadn't started relabelling the classes at all, though I think I understand the motivation - consistency in feat labelling.  Some people argue that they DIDN'T REALLY relabel them at all, but I don't get how they arrive at that.  Whatever.  As long as you know what the options are for each class selection it's all good.  The main problem is some people don't, therefore, confusion. What WoTC really needs to do is lay out a simple list/table showing all the classes before and after relabelling.  I have a feeling they won't do that, however, until all the relabelling is finished.
#5 eberg Jul 08, 2011 15:00:21	Yes, it is a bug. Not sure how that's a matter of debate.
#6 thespaceinvader Jul 08, 2011 16:27:11	However, if you choose Custom and create a Human Slayer (Weaponmaster) with a third at-will, you still won't get a third STANCE, but you will be able to select a 1st level Fighter at-will as your third power. Just double-checked and saw that the human At-Will perk specifies an attack power. Which is sad, because having a third stance doesn't strike me as unbalancing. An extraneous 1st level Fighter attack power isn't as useful to a Weaponmaster, who is built to use basic attacks. Indeed.  This is why Humans in Essentials get an alternative to the bonus at-will in the form of Heroic Effort, which is a very nice after-the-roll +4 to a save or attack.  For the basic attack-users from Essentials (particularly the Slayer and Thief, less so the Hunter for whom Twin Strike is by far a better choice), Heroic Effort is what you should be getting on a Human, not bonus at-will.