A Question for Any Inside DDi about Price - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 epochgames Jun 13, 2008 0:43:11	This is just a few quick questions, as I've stated my case (for now) in regards to price, and I think a number of others have as well. This doesn't necessarily need to wait for Ken to get back, anyone inside can give us these answers, I think. If you can't, please do so much as to say so, and that we'll have to wait for these questions to be answered (and, no, I don't need a deadline....that's kind of a joke guys, it's okay to laugh, helps with the pressure). Pricing. The awesome FAQput together by Cart_Sprinter (really, my hats off to you, great job...don't have a cookie, have the whole box) has some great information as provided from Wizards in regards to current pricing plans. I want to state that Ken said the plans were, of course, subject to change. Question: Are the votes on the board being tallied at all (i.e., those who say that they are willing to pay under the current pricing structure versus those who say they won't)? Question: Are the variations and suggestions from posters being looked at or gotten into the right hands to be looked at? Question: Have there been any changes made to the current pricing plan as presented in the FAQ? Question: Are the opinions on this board carrying any weight in regards to the pricing, or is it just beating a long dead horse at this point?
#2 Kentinal Jun 13, 2008 5:28:25	This is just a few quick questions, as I've stated my case (for now) in regards to price, and I think a number of others have as well. This doesn't necessarily need to wait for Ken to get back, anyone inside can give us these answers, I think. If you can't, please do so much as to say so, and that we'll have to wait for these questions to be answered (and, no, I don't need a deadline....that's kind of a joke guys, it's okay to laugh, helps with the pressure). Pricing. The awesome FAQput together by Cart_Sprinter (really, my hats off to you, great job...don't have a cookie, have the whole box) has some great information as provided from Wizards in regards to current pricing plans. I want to state that Ken said the plans were, of course, subject to change. Question: Are the votes on the board being tallied at all (i.e., those who say that they are willing to pay under the current pricing structure versus those who say they won't)? Question: Are the variations and suggestions from posters being looked at or gotten into the right hands to be looked at? Question: Have there been any changes made to the current pricing plan as presented in the FAQ? Question: Are the opinions on this board carrying any weight in regards to the pricing, or is it just beating a long dead horse at this point? They shipped something close to 1 million books based on an estimate which indicates that 300,000 to 500,000 will be buying them at launch. The number of members of the boards all forums last time I looked was something like 46,000 we are a small percent of the market. Polling as such is not permitted. The boards do get read and clearly at times they get into the correct person. Random Vminis disappeared as an option. The ezines now can be purchased by non members. So far there has been no change announced in price. The FAQ is right now updated with any new official information within 24 hours of something being revealed.
#3 epochgames Jun 13, 2008 6:55:57	They shipped something close to 1 million books based on an estimate which indicates that 300,000 to 500,000 will be buying them at launch. The number of members of the boards all forums last time I looked was something like 46,000 we are a small percent of the market. Polling as such is not permitted. The boards do get read and clearly at times they get into the correct person. Random Vminis disappeared as an option. The ezines now can be purchased by non members. So far there has been no change announced in price. The FAQ is right now updated with any new official information within 24 hours of something being revealed. There is a discussion about sample size, marketing, and business below...it's not necessarily for the faint of heart....but to just directly reply to the statement that we're too small a percentage of the market to poll/consider, I'd like to call "bullox" Show Let me ask this. If you're looking at percentages, as you are with people who frequent these boards vs. those who don't, and we'll use the higher number of 500k, and let's say 45k for registered members, accounting hopefully for staff and those who have multiple accounts. Of course, the number of people with multiple accounts could be far greater than this, but we're talking hypothetically here. You're right that these boards represent appx 9% of the population. That is relatively small. But, it is still a percentage, and it should give us something to work with. This is particularly true as a common sample size with a confidence level of 95% and a confidence interval of 4 would only be a sample size of 600 (sorry, I do this stuff to keep a roof over my head) Problems with utilizing the forum as a sample population. These people all belong to at least a few common demographics: people interested in RPG/TCG/DnD/WotC people most likely familiar with/comfortable with technology/the Internet while not all, a larger than average portion of the sample size is most likely already partly informed also, taking a look at that size of 45k, I am under the impression that is from all WotC forums, and not just DnD--please, correct me, if I am wrong and, of course, even with 45k registered users, how many of those are still active? Now, we have to also consider how many votes each actual individual would be worth, consider it like the electorate, and a number of the boards are what would be super delegates. As a number of the people here have stated, they are the ones that inform their friends and family and whoever else of what is going on in the WotC world, but also hold an amount of sway over those individuals' choice to partake in something such as DnD versus, say White Wolf It gets complicated at that point, right there. This is where companies spend a lot of money in advertising and customer service training. Why the Super Bowl ads so funny and memorable? So you will buy the product? No, so you'll talk about it. Hey, Jim, did you see that Budweiser commercial, it was hysterical. Yup. Later that day--hey, Jim, wanna grab that beer. Sure, I could go for a Bud. It's legal subliminal advertising. Make your product a solution Make it stick Make people like you Make people realize they need you and forget the rest Basic marketing, right? I know. Now, back to the market research. So, you say out of 500,000, you need the opinion of about 600. How do you go about getting this? Well, if you don't have your call on the DNC (and, in some cases, even if you do), there are telephone market survey campaigns constantly going on...it's big business There are focus groups and panels There are experts who will make the numbers either say what you want them to say, or show you what you need to do to move them in one direction or another But, what about all the other outlets? Any business who suspects to survive cannot ignore the comments that are sent to them through any media--phone, email, snail mail, hand written surveys done at the local mall, etc. In most cases, we as consumers might feel that our concerns are being ignored, but that's not always the case. You might talk to a customer service rep who really isn't good at their job that would give you this impression. You might see the changes you requested aren't being implemented. You might just not be listening when you're told "We're sorry that happened to you, instead of a full refund, how about we give you a partial refund and some coupons." But, companies do listen. If one customer repeatedly calls, emails, complains about the same thing, that's one thing. Heck, they may even become an involuntary ex-customer, see Sprint. But, most customer service reps when you call or email actually take the time to hear your concerns. They often understand them. Let's face it, most customer service reps are average Joe's and Jane's trying to make ends meet, and they wouldn't want to feel ripped off, or be let down by something the invested their precious time or coin into. The tech support field is a good example. The guy you're calling is sick and tired of telling people "THAT is NOT a cup holder!" So, you call and have problems with your email. He tries and tries, but can't fix it. It might come down to blaming it on your computer or finding some other lame excuse to get you off the phone. But, then he gets another call, same symptoms. A few minuets later, another. Now, he's talking to his buddy. They both are getting these calls. They talk to others, and then the supervisor, something has to be going on. There are no alarms, no messages from the system admins, nothing. So, you gather the data, you call the admins, you work together and find a solution. Whoops! Poor caller 1 and 2, hope they don't pay for someone to look at their computer. In the same instance, people are calling, you know it's broke, it's gonna be broke for awhile, and you're really limited to telling them..."sorry. it'll be fixed when it's fixed." That happens with major metropolitan areas, with thousands upon thousands of subscribers. How big was the sample size before someone decided to investigate. Furthermore, a good tech can find an issue with only one call. And, when good tech is sitting there and mr. super awesome customer who good tech knows and knows he knows his stuff calls, it starts to set off warning bells immediately. That seems like a whole bunch of blah blah blah, but what I am trying to say, while the sampling from the boards may seem small, it is quite possibly more than adequate. I'm not saying 100% that it is, but it is possible. Now, tack onto this a separate hypothetical: what if Wizards had come out and simply unleashed DDi, they never told us it was coming. Just, here it is Friday after the new game was released, all these awesome tools, you get a few days to try it for free and then here's the pricing. We wouldn't be having this debate (just yet, anyhow). We'd still hear a bunch of moaning and groaning. And, we'd still see a lot of people cheering the new innovations. The only thing that would change price at that point would be the tally at the end of the day (DDi Income - WotC Outgo). If people were saying it cost too much, but still paying for it, we wouldn't see the price change, I can be pretty sure. But, here we are, and it's before the launch of DDi. Wizards had the choice to tell us about it or not. And, as they're a business, they need more of a reason that "we felt like it." There are two reasons that immediately come to mind. 1. Marketing. I don't think anyone can deny DDi was a strong, valid, and good marketing tool for 4E. 2. They want to open it up more to public poll and opinion. Even if it was not the initial intent, WotC had to make the concious decision to release the information as part of marketing and *know* that the public view was going the be a fallout. So, they have another choice. They can A) listen to the public opinion or B) ignore it. Obviously, ignoring the public lets plans go on and avoids (further) delay, but it could also prove damaging. Unfortunately, I am not a bean counter, and can't say what kind of risk analysis would suggest option B would be the way to go.

Show

Let me ask this. If you're looking at percentages, as you are with people who frequent these boards vs. those who don't, and we'll use the higher number of 500k, and let's say 45k for registered members, accounting hopefully for staff and those who have multiple accounts. Of course, the number of people with multiple accounts could be far greater than this, but we're talking hypothetically here.

You're right that these boards represent appx 9% of the population. That is relatively small. But, it is still a percentage, and it should give us something to work with. This is particularly true as a common sample size with a confidence level of 95% and a confidence interval of 4 would only be a sample size of 600 (sorry, I do this stuff to keep a roof over my head)

Problems with utilizing the forum as a sample population.
These people all belong to at least a few common demographics:
people interested in RPG/TCG/DnD/WotC
people most likely familiar with/comfortable with technology/the Internet

while not all, a larger than average portion of the sample size is most likely already partly informed

also, taking a look at that size of 45k, I am under the impression that is from all WotC forums, and not just DnD--please, correct me, if I am wrong

and, of course, even with 45k registered users, how many of those are still active?

Now, we have to also consider how many votes each actual individual would be worth, consider it like the electorate, and a number of the boards are what would be super delegates. As a number of the people here have stated, they are the ones that inform their friends and family and whoever else of what is going on in the WotC world, but also hold an amount of sway over those individuals' choice to partake in something such as DnD versus, say White Wolf

It gets complicated at that point, right there. This is where companies spend a lot of money in advertising and customer service training. Why the Super Bowl ads so funny and memorable? So you will buy the product? No, so you'll talk about it. Hey, Jim, did you see that Budweiser commercial, it was hysterical. Yup. Later that day--hey, Jim, wanna grab that beer. Sure, I could go for a Bud. It's legal subliminal advertising.

Make your product a solution
Make it stick
Make people like you
Make people realize they need you and forget the rest

Basic marketing, right? I know.

Now, back to the market research. So, you say out of 500,000, you need the opinion of about 600. How do you go about getting this?

Well, if you don't have your call on the DNC (and, in some cases, even if you do), there are telephone market survey campaigns constantly going on...it's big business

There are focus groups and panels

There are experts who will make the numbers either say what you want them to say, or show you what you need to do to move them in one direction or another

But, what about all the other outlets?
Any business who suspects to survive cannot ignore the comments that are sent to them through any media--phone, email, snail mail, hand written surveys done at the local mall, etc.

In most cases, we as consumers might feel that our concerns are being ignored, but that's not always the case. You might talk to a customer service rep who really isn't good at their job that would give you this impression. You might see the changes you requested aren't being implemented. You might just not be listening when you're told "We're sorry that happened to you, instead of a full refund, how about we give you a partial refund and some coupons." But, companies do listen. If one customer repeatedly calls, emails, complains about the same thing, that's one thing. Heck, they may even become an involuntary ex-customer, see Sprint.

But, most customer service reps when you call or email actually take the time to hear your concerns. They often understand them. Let's face it, most customer service reps are average Joe's and Jane's trying to make ends meet, and they wouldn't want to feel ripped off, or be let down by something the invested their precious time or coin into. The tech support field is a good example. The guy you're calling is sick and tired of telling people "THAT is NOT a cup holder!" So, you call and have problems with your email. He tries and tries, but can't fix it. It might come down to blaming it on your computer or finding some other lame excuse to get you off the phone. But, then he gets another call, same symptoms. A few minuets later, another. Now, he's talking to his buddy. They both are getting these calls. They talk to others, and then the supervisor, something has to be going on. There are no alarms, no messages from the system admins, nothing. So, you gather the data, you call the admins, you work together and find a solution. Whoops! Poor caller 1 and 2, hope they don't pay for someone to look at their computer. In the same instance, people are calling, you know it's broke, it's gonna be broke for awhile, and you're really limited to telling them..."sorry. it'll be fixed when it's fixed." That happens with major metropolitan areas, with thousands upon thousands of subscribers. How big was the sample size before someone decided to investigate. Furthermore, a good tech can find an issue with only one call. And, when good tech is sitting there and mr. super awesome customer who good tech knows and knows he knows his stuff calls, it starts to set off warning bells immediately.

That seems like a whole bunch of blah blah blah, but what I am trying to say, while the sampling from the boards may seem small, it is quite possibly more than adequate. I'm not saying 100% that it is, but it is possible.

Now, tack onto this a separate hypothetical: what if Wizards had come out and simply unleashed DDi, they never told us it was coming. Just, here it is Friday after the new game was released, all these awesome tools, you get a few days to try it for free and then here's the pricing.

We wouldn't be having this debate (just yet, anyhow).
We'd still hear a bunch of moaning and groaning. And, we'd still see a lot of people cheering the new innovations.
The only thing that would change price at that point would be the tally at the end of the day (DDi Income - WotC Outgo). If people were saying it cost too much, but still paying for it, we wouldn't see the price change, I can be pretty sure.

But, here we are, and it's before the launch of DDi. Wizards had the choice to tell us about it or not. And, as they're a business, they need more of a reason that "we felt like it."

There are two reasons that immediately come to mind.
1. Marketing. I don't think anyone can deny DDi was a strong, valid, and good marketing tool for 4E.
2. They want to open it up more to public poll and opinion. Even if it was not the initial intent, WotC had to make the concious decision to release the information as part of marketing and know that the public view was going the be a fallout. So, they have another choice.

They can A) listen to the public opinion or B) ignore it. Obviously, ignoring the public lets plans go on and avoids (further) delay, but it could also prove damaging. Unfortunately, I am not a bean counter, and can't say what kind of risk analysis would suggest option B would be the way to go.