A question from a newcomer - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A question from a newcomer

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zilfana
Apr 25, 2008 22:59:58 And when i say newcomer i mean newcomer. I haven't played an actual "tabletop" game of D&D, but i have spent many a night playing Nevewinter Nights, and not too resently NwN 2, as well as Kotor and a few other games on the d20 system. Well the thing is me and a friend have for quit some time been very interested in playing D&D, but we though we would wait until 4e to start buying manuels, guides, etc... but we never put very much thought into it. Although he is going to a different college next fall we will still be able to meet up and play, plus my college has a "Gaming" club, A.K.A. a D&D club. Well, i never put too much thought into what was going to be new in 4e, and after i watched the presentation videos from GenCon 07 on youtube i was filled with dread. i don't want to play with people online, i want to play with good friends at a table. i don't want to pay a monthly fee just to use online resources, i don't care if i have to search through a great tome of a manual to do something. the electronic versions of the manuals you buy kind of interested me, i do have a very nice laptop to use them on, but i don't know just what kind of use i can get out of them, or if i can even use them without the monthly fee.

all this aside, my overall question is: even with all this added "online play" and "online resources" and all the other garbage, will i still be able to just play a game on a table top with a group of friends. if not, i could care less about 4e and i will begin at once with 3.5 instead of waiting for 4e.
#2
AttilatheNun
Apr 25, 2008 23:08:39 The answer is yes, you will still be able to play around a table with your friends. Most people probably still will. The online tools are just to make it easier for people who can't get together to play, like old gaming groups that moved apart. As far as getting individual books in electronic format, I'm not sure. If you pay the monthly subscription, which is significantly less/month than buying a book each month, which is the average rate at which WotC releases books, you get access to the Rules Database, which contains all the info from books published by WotC. There may be individual pdfs available for purchase, and if not, you can usually find them for download on websites of questionable legality.
#3
sigil_beguiler
Apr 25, 2008 23:10:19 Yes, all the online stuff is simply more options.

There will still be character sheets, there will still be dice, there will still be huge manuals to buy.

WoTC has stated outright they will never make D&D only-online.

There are good things with the DDI (online play) take your college friend. If for whatever reason he can no longer make it to real-life games, you can play online using the Virtual Game Table.
#4
viktor_von_doom
Apr 25, 2008 23:14:23 Yes you can still play at a table with your friends, DDI is OPTIONAL.
#5
zilfana
Apr 25, 2008 23:20:26 This all sounds very good. First of all, I would like to say i'm sorry for the no capitals and such. It's a habit I'm trying to break. I've come a long way, i use to not even put periods. I just double spaced. And as for the friend going to another college, he will still be relatively close, maybe not even more than an hour away. As with the "online only" i had not even the slightest thought of it being online "only" play, i was just trying to give my displeasure of it. If I wanted to play online, i would play NwN or Wow, as of which me and my friend play Nwn 2 quite often, online and with a LAN connection. I thank you all for your help.
#6
sigil_beguiler
Apr 25, 2008 23:22:54 Well there are some nice benefits to the Virtual Game Table. You can adjust more of the rules, alot easier to make your own adventures, character creation is a lot more open with using all the rules.

Essentially your getting the same experience online as you would in real-life, which you can't really do in NWN.
#7
AttilatheNun
Apr 25, 2008 23:29:54 This is true, and something you have to bear in mind. DDI and the virtual game table are designed to simulate playing D&D on your kitchen table without all the hassle of having to bring everyone to your kitchen table. They don't calculate any rules for you. There is no "Magic Missile" button you click and then select a target and it automatically does a little animation and calculates damage. It's just a virtual simulation of a battle mat and minis. It even has some advantages over a physical battle mat such as more control over what the players can see (visibility) and more detailed environments. It does, however, hold the large disadvantage of not actually being able to see the people your gaming with. Although we gamers may not be the most attractive bunch, there's just no substitute for actually getting together with your buds and gaming.
#8
zilfana
Apr 25, 2008 23:31:39 Look, don't take me as putting the Virtual Game Table down, i just don't care for it. I'm not picking D&D up to play with friends that have left, not now anyways. I haven't even started playing, so how can the ol' party scater and leave yet. I have no complaints or insulsts for the feature, i just don't have the need for it at this time.
#9
sigil_beguiler
Apr 25, 2008 23:33:42 Oh I know, I was just saying your comment on if wanting to play online you'll just play NWN. I was simply referring if you wished too you could replicate D&D better with the Game Table.
#10
zilfana
Apr 25, 2008 23:38:02 The whole "no caclualting stats and magic missle button" thing is a plus. One of the main reasons I didn't care for the online game was because i tought thats what it would be like, the game doing everthing for you, kind of like NvN but with a different look, and turn based. Know that i have learned more about it, it does look like a nice feature. Say we all feel like playing but some are sick maybe, or don't have a ride to the appointed meeting place, or maybe they just don't have any clean clothes, a very good reason not to go into public. Even though you are playing online, you can still play with the people you would normally play with in person.
#11
sigil_beguiler
Apr 25, 2008 23:43:33 Yup, and in say 4 years if you have established a tight-knit gaming group and everyone goes their separate ways after college you can still play over DDI.

Also, one thing too, being a college student I will take the assumption won't have a lot of throwaway cash (fellow college student here). As such, you could create a "group account" which everyone has access to and is subscribed to DDI ($10/month for a year a group of say 5 would each pay $2, so comes to a total of $24 for a year, less then one book) and everyone else makes free accounts and the group acount gives them Guest Passes to play for free.

This way you can all play D&D online for cheap, but also gain all the additional features, such as the rules database (which will have all the rules ever released for 4e (so don't have to buy additional books)) Dungeon & Dragon articles, previews of new books, etc, etc.

So can be a nice deal for college kids.
#12
AttilatheNun
Apr 25, 2008 23:48:36 I haven't heard anything about group accounts. As I understood it, the DM would need a full account, and then could purchase guest passes to allow his players to join in on individual sessions.
#13
sigil_beguiler
Apr 25, 2008 23:56:23
I haven't heard anything about group accounts. As I understood it, the DM would need a full account, and then could purchase guest passes to allow his players to join in on individual sessions.

I meant group account as a loose term. As in you give your whole group the name and password for that account. So everyone can have access but whenever a specific person is DMing they would use the group account.
#14
zilfana
Apr 25, 2008 23:58:58 The whole economic aids are a plus. You'r right, i won't have very much throw away cash, if any at all. I'll be sharing rent with another friend, so that won't be as bad. This friend i have no idea if he would like to play D&D, but he is a good friend. I've known him since i was like 5. We are almost completely opposite. He listens to rap, i would rather blast Dragonforce through my speakers. He talks about how nerdy D&D is, but once he came over when i had Nwn 2, i coudn't get him off of it. He played my version of Diablo 2 at my house more then i did. But yes, cash is a big issue.
#15
sigil_beguiler
Apr 26, 2008 0:02:57 Yeah, I'm gonna be renting a place by myself in downtown Toronto, money will be a premium. But paying $24 a year, with each member of my group chipping in equally is quite affordable, and will save me money with not having to buy new books for more classes, races, etc.
#16
zilfana
Apr 26, 2008 0:04:52 It was funny, he started playing as a warlock, and i told him to read the manuel about essences and sutch, but, knowing him, he didn't. The first time he leveld up, he was asking all kinds of questions about it, so i asked him "Did you even read the manuel?" He just looks at me for a moment with a blank face and says "No." The next 20 minutes involved me trying not to die on Gears of War, me trying to understand the concepts myself, and then trying to teach them to him.
#17
zilfana
Apr 26, 2008 0:07:27 Well, i live in good ol' louisiana. Its very hard to find D&d players around where i live, or nerds in gereral. The friend i'm rooming with whouldn't describe himself as a nerd, but he is. He just doesn't like showing it in public. The one going to another college on the other hand is. Thats why i'm glad there is a gaming club at the college.
#18
AttilatheNun
Apr 26, 2008 0:10:51 Ah, the good ol' closet nerd. I'm in southern California, and since we've got such a nice variety of weird over here, especially at my school (it's an arts school) being a nerd isn't that big a deal. Maybe it's just because my school lacks sports teams so there's not really any jocks, so there's no one to give us a nice swirly now and again. At any rate, I'm probably gonna start up a D&D club at my school next year to pull in some new players. Always good to attract new members to one of my favorite hobbies!
#19
zilfana
Apr 26, 2008 0:11:58 Well, i have to go recharge my lasers. I have a crawfish boil to go to tomorrow, because yes, i do live in Louisiana, an almost all night Halo 3 lan party that night, and then to top it all off i have to open up the grocery store i work at the next morning. i might hit the forums sometime tomorrow. I only just joined an hour ago to get the answers i need before, but i thing i'll stick around here for awhile.
#20
zilfana
Apr 26, 2008 0:14:07 Well my school isn't an arts school, but i am going to major in fine arts, or actually just a general arts degree. I dream of being a concept artist for Bungie, or if i have to, just for any good game studio. I'm hoping that most of the students i work with in the art classes will be the very people i'll be playing with.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zilfana Apr 25, 2008 22:59:58	And when i say newcomer i mean newcomer. I haven't played an actual "tabletop" game of D&D, but i have spent many a night playing Nevewinter Nights, and not too resently NwN 2, as well as Kotor and a few other games on the d20 system. Well the thing is me and a friend have for quit some time been very interested in playing D&D, but we though we would wait until 4e to start buying manuels, guides, etc... but we never put very much thought into it. Although he is going to a different college next fall we will still be able to meet up and play, plus my college has a "Gaming" club, A.K.A. a D&D club. Well, i never put too much thought into what was going to be new in 4e, and after i watched the presentation videos from GenCon 07 on youtube i was filled with dread. i don't want to play with people online, i want to play with good friends at a table. i don't want to pay a monthly fee just to use online resources, i don't care if i have to search through a great tome of a manual to do something. the electronic versions of the manuals you buy kind of interested me, i do have a very nice laptop to use them on, but i don't know just what kind of use i can get out of them, or if i can even use them without the monthly fee. all this aside, my overall question is: even with all this added "online play" and "online resources" and all the other garbage, will i still be able to just play a game on a table top with a group of friends. if not, i could care less about 4e and i will begin at once with 3.5 instead of waiting for 4e.
#2 AttilatheNun Apr 25, 2008 23:08:39	The answer is yes, you will still be able to play around a table with your friends. Most people probably still will. The online tools are just to make it easier for people who can't get together to play, like old gaming groups that moved apart. As far as getting individual books in electronic format, I'm not sure. If you pay the monthly subscription, which is significantly less/month than buying a book each month, which is the average rate at which WotC releases books, you get access to the Rules Database, which contains all the info from books published by WotC. There may be individual pdfs available for purchase, and if not, you can usually find them for download on websites of questionable legality.
#3 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2008 23:10:19	Yes, all the online stuff is simply more options. There will still be character sheets, there will still be dice, there will still be huge manuals to buy. WoTC has stated outright they will never make D&D only-online. There are good things with the DDI (online play) take your college friend. If for whatever reason he can no longer make it to real-life games, you can play online using the Virtual Game Table.
#4 viktor_von_doom Apr 25, 2008 23:14:23	Yes you can still play at a table with your friends, DDI is OPTIONAL.
#5 zilfana Apr 25, 2008 23:20:26	This all sounds very good. First of all, I would like to say i'm sorry for the no capitals and such. It's a habit I'm trying to break. I've come a long way, i use to not even put periods. I just double spaced. And as for the friend going to another college, he will still be relatively close, maybe not even more than an hour away. As with the "online only" i had not even the slightest thought of it being online "only" play, i was just trying to give my displeasure of it. If I wanted to play online, i would play NwN or Wow, as of which me and my friend play Nwn 2 quite often, online and with a LAN connection. I thank you all for your help.
#6 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2008 23:22:54	Well there are some nice benefits to the Virtual Game Table. You can adjust more of the rules, alot easier to make your own adventures, character creation is a lot more open with using all the rules. Essentially your getting the same experience online as you would in real-life, which you can't really do in NWN.
#7 AttilatheNun Apr 25, 2008 23:29:54	This is true, and something you have to bear in mind. DDI and the virtual game table are designed to simulate playing D&D on your kitchen table without all the hassle of having to bring everyone to your kitchen table. They don't calculate any rules for you. There is no "Magic Missile" button you click and then select a target and it automatically does a little animation and calculates damage. It's just a virtual simulation of a battle mat and minis. It even has some advantages over a physical battle mat such as more control over what the players can see (visibility) and more detailed environments. It does, however, hold the large disadvantage of not actually being able to see the people your gaming with. Although we gamers may not be the most attractive bunch, there's just no substitute for actually getting together with your buds and gaming.
#8 zilfana Apr 25, 2008 23:31:39	Look, don't take me as putting the Virtual Game Table down, i just don't care for it. I'm not picking D&D up to play with friends that have left, not now anyways. I haven't even started playing, so how can the ol' party scater and leave yet. I have no complaints or insulsts for the feature, i just don't have the need for it at this time.
#9 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2008 23:33:42	Oh I know, I was just saying your comment on if wanting to play online you'll just play NWN. I was simply referring if you wished too you could replicate D&D better with the Game Table.
#10 zilfana Apr 25, 2008 23:38:02	The whole "no caclualting stats and magic missle button" thing is a plus. One of the main reasons I didn't care for the online game was because i tought thats what it would be like, the game doing everthing for you, kind of like NvN but with a different look, and turn based. Know that i have learned more about it, it does look like a nice feature. Say we all feel like playing but some are sick maybe, or don't have a ride to the appointed meeting place, or maybe they just don't have any clean clothes, a very good reason not to go into public. Even though you are playing online, you can still play with the people you would normally play with in person.
#11 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2008 23:43:33	Yup, and in say 4 years if you have established a tight-knit gaming group and everyone goes their separate ways after college you can still play over DDI. Also, one thing too, being a college student I will take the assumption won't have a lot of throwaway cash (fellow college student here). As such, you could create a "group account" which everyone has access to and is subscribed to DDI ($10/month for a year a group of say 5 would each pay $2, so comes to a total of $24 for a year, less then one book) and everyone else makes free accounts and the group acount gives them Guest Passes to play for free. This way you can all play D&D online for cheap, but also gain all the additional features, such as the rules database (which will have all the rules ever released for 4e (so don't have to buy additional books)) Dungeon & Dragon articles, previews of new books, etc, etc. So can be a nice deal for college kids.
#12 AttilatheNun Apr 25, 2008 23:48:36	I haven't heard anything about group accounts. As I understood it, the DM would need a full account, and then could purchase guest passes to allow his players to join in on individual sessions.
#13 sigil_beguiler Apr 25, 2008 23:56:23	I haven't heard anything about group accounts. As I understood it, the DM would need a full account, and then could purchase guest passes to allow his players to join in on individual sessions. I meant group account as a loose term. As in you give your whole group the name and password for that account. So everyone can have access but whenever a specific person is DMing they would use the group account.
#14 zilfana Apr 25, 2008 23:58:58	The whole economic aids are a plus. You'r right, i won't have very much throw away cash, if any at all. I'll be sharing rent with another friend, so that won't be as bad. This friend i have no idea if he would like to play D&D, but he is a good friend. I've known him since i was like 5. We are almost completely opposite. He listens to rap, i would rather blast Dragonforce through my speakers. He talks about how nerdy D&D is, but once he came over when i had Nwn 2, i coudn't get him off of it. He played my version of Diablo 2 at my house more then i did. But yes, cash is a big issue.
#15 sigil_beguiler Apr 26, 2008 0:02:57	Yeah, I'm gonna be renting a place by myself in downtown Toronto, money will be a premium. But paying $24 a year, with each member of my group chipping in equally is quite affordable, and will save me money with not having to buy new books for more classes, races, etc.
#16 zilfana Apr 26, 2008 0:04:52	It was funny, he started playing as a warlock, and i told him to read the manuel about essences and sutch, but, knowing him, he didn't. The first time he leveld up, he was asking all kinds of questions about it, so i asked him "Did you even read the manuel?" He just looks at me for a moment with a blank face and says "No." The next 20 minutes involved me trying not to die on Gears of War, me trying to understand the concepts myself, and then trying to teach them to him.
#17 zilfana Apr 26, 2008 0:07:27	Well, i live in good ol' louisiana. Its very hard to find D&d players around where i live, or nerds in gereral. The friend i'm rooming with whouldn't describe himself as a nerd, but he is. He just doesn't like showing it in public. The one going to another college on the other hand is. Thats why i'm glad there is a gaming club at the college.
#18 AttilatheNun Apr 26, 2008 0:10:51	Ah, the good ol' closet nerd. I'm in southern California, and since we've got such a nice variety of weird over here, especially at my school (it's an arts school) being a nerd isn't that big a deal. Maybe it's just because my school lacks sports teams so there's not really any jocks, so there's no one to give us a nice swirly now and again. At any rate, I'm probably gonna start up a D&D club at my school next year to pull in some new players. Always good to attract new members to one of my favorite hobbies!
#19 zilfana Apr 26, 2008 0:11:58	Well, i have to go recharge my lasers. I have a crawfish boil to go to tomorrow, because yes, i do live in Louisiana, an almost all night Halo 3 lan party that night, and then to top it all off i have to open up the grocery store i work at the next morning. i might hit the forums sometime tomorrow. I only just joined an hour ago to get the answers i need before, but i thing i'll stick around here for awhile.
#20 zilfana Apr 26, 2008 0:14:07	Well my school isn't an arts school, but i am going to major in fine arts, or actually just a general arts degree. I dream of being a concept artist for Bungie, or if i have to, just for any good game studio. I'm hoping that most of the students i work with in the art classes will be the very people i'll be playing with.