Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 digitaldurandal Jun 07, 2011 0:07:29	Hello everyone, First I would like to thank all the DMs that took the time to post all kinds of information here including but not limited to players guide's, maps, suggestions, and experiences. I really think that your advice and effort will live on through my campaign and others. I have currently begun compiling my own living document of NPCs to help me flesh them out with their motivations etc, and I reflavored some backgrounds to actually be specific towards the setting - some of SoW ones from Dragon were okay but I wanted to start the characters off in the universe giving them little bits of history in their own character creation. I am going to be running the campaign for two players, and thus have had to make some adjustments for that. My players prefer a good balance of roleplay and strategy in their game. Changes so far: The first adventure is undergoing some heavy modifications to create more opportunity to flesh out characters, and interact with NPCs. My plan is to have the adventurers bump into both the freeriders and farstriders (who I renamed the striders because the two names were simply too close to each other) before all hell breaks loose. The PCs will speak with Jen at the very start of the adventure and she will wish them all the best (perhaps buying them a drink or donating a healing potion to aspiring heroes) before parting ways to go answer the call for help to the west at Overlook. I will also start the rivalry between them and the freeriders then and there by having Megan be there and behave a bit arrogant and haughty towards the heroes when they receive attention from the striders. I removed about half of the encounters from the adventure altogether, including every undead in the adventure. I kept nearly everything goblinoid and changed a few encounters to be more strategic while also being good for two players. For instance the first encounter under castle Rivenroar I put a Goblin Beastmaster and Sharpshooter and 2 dogs (minions). I think it will play out much more fun than the original encounter. All skill challenges will be flowing challenges and not dice rolling exercizes. Changes contemplating: How can I introduce Modra earlier and what motivation would he have that would get in the way of the PCs so that by the forge they want to destroy him? I don't really understand what the MM3 damage changes are, do I add 5, 10, 15 to all monster attacks? Looking at low level MM3 creatures it doesn't seem like they did this - I know this may not be the traditional place but seeing as the adventure is one of the earlier ones I thought it might benefit from some lessons learned by 4e since then. Lastly, what is one thing that you would change if you were to run or play the campaign again?
#2 graht Jun 07, 2011 14:29:26	I couldn't figure out how to install that kind of hatred of Modra, at least not for my group, so I changed it so that he became an unwilling ally (the enemy of Sarshan is my friend). I would completely rework Rivenroar like you did.  That was an unfocused dungeon sprawl/crawl that didn't do a very good job of kicking off the adventure path, imho.  I would definitely want to get across the "it's you vs the Red Hand of Doom" message.  However, I would leave the throne room (?) undead encounter in as an option for the PCs.  That one was a lot of fun.  And think it would be good if there's at least one room in the crypt that the Red Hand group couldn't take.
#3 digitaldurandal Jun 07, 2011 20:26:40	Good advice Graht thanks for the post. I think that it is definitely worth considering. If the PCs do not want to kill Modra (sometimes they just want to kill anyone who slights them at all and sometimes they are too lazy to care) I will have him rat out Sarshans hiding place and recruit the PCs to help him. The next question that would lead me to is how early can I introduce Sarshan as the puppet master and have him harry the PCs more directly. Should I stick with the beggar encounter or would you change the way the PCs first encounter him in some way?
#4 graht Jun 08, 2011 10:27:38	Yeah, I would also try to figure out how to drop Sarshan's name a couple of times in earlier adventures.  Not big drops, just two or three little ones, like maybe NPC diaries, signed letters, or last dying words, "You won't be able to stop Sarshan (hurk)." I also used Modra, once he had "joined" the PCs, to let them know that Sarshan was the head of the beast, so to speak, so they didn't feel so railroaded into confronting him.  By the time they got into Sarshan's tower they really wanted to kill him.  After Sarshan got away they *really* wanted to kill him. Fwiw, I also let Modra stay with the party through the Temple Between, since they didn't kill Sarshan and Modra feared for his life.  He was a nice bit of comic relief, in addition to providing some theiving/scouting skills the PCs in my group just didn't have. There are some encounters throughout the path where I feel the tactics as written just don't make sense with any sort of NPC motivation.  For example in Umbraforge there's the Great Hall encounter where a dark haunter and his wraith are arguing with some guards, waiting to see Sarshan to renegotiate his lord's contract.  As written he attacks the PCs along with the guards.  In my opinion of he and his lord are that unhappy with his contract he's unhappy with Sarshan and wouldn't be inclined to help defend Sarshan's tower.  When I ran that encounter the dark haunter and his wraith fled ( I gave them both phasing so they could go through the main door).  Or, I could've changed the motivation so that he had just finished renegotiating with Sarshan and instead of arguing with the guards they were just having a friendly conversation. There are also encounters that are obviously just there to provide experience and don't add to the story/plot.  I didn't keep track of experience and just told the players to level their characters when appropriate and subsequently scrapped quite a few of those experience encounters.  On the other hand if you and your players like those extra encounters leave them in.
#5 digitaldurandal Jun 09, 2011 10:42:42	Encounters for the sake of encounters is not what my group is looking for. I am doing the DD campaign as a story thing so every encounter has to fit in. There can be an intense random encounter every once in a while but there is not really room for filler. Plus I would like to advance the story as quickly as possible especially considering there are 19 modules to go through. We played for the first time yesterday and I am going to post about it in another thread. Thanks again for the advice I will look for the encounters you are speaking about. I have only really read through up to Umbraforge so far and looked at the synopsis of a few others.
#6 digitaldurandal Jun 11, 2011 19:18:32	I altered the adventures "shut in" and "murder in oak bridge" to take the place of the adventure "the lost mines of kalak." Basically it creates a mostly ssocial mystery adventure where the PCs solve a series of murders in Brindol. This also places them in Brindol for the next adventure "den of the destroyer." I did not rewrite everything, i only changed the names of people. If anyone is interested I can email them my conversion. The next thing I am working on is adding in some surprises in the various dungeons. I would like to add in an encounter that takes the PCs out of their elements and creates a difficult situation, although not overcomeable for them. Also at least one encounter that the PCs can solve without combat. I was reading an interview with the guy who masterminded the Age of Worms adventure path and I kind of liked the elevator encounter and the idea that not every encounter should be on the PCs level. However with two PCs how do I give them clues that they are in a situation in which the best they can hope for is survival? In the past I have run campaigns where in early levels the PCs are chased through a town by a Great Wyrm - they knew to run - but what about a less obvious situation? Any ideas on other fun difficult situations for the PCs? What about a situation they can logic their way out of? Or an opportunity to gain a great advantage over their enemies?
#7 nyteskie Jun 13, 2011 10:29:38	One thought - numbers. If you describe a setting where the PCs can see a veritable army of enemies, they'll know that combat is not their best option. Other ideas, try looking at the skill challenges suggested in Mike Mearl's column, or the chapter in DMG 2. One of WotC's D&D podcasts discussed the encounter 'easy if handled correctly', and the ultimate conclusion was that whether a group picks up on the 'way around' depended heavily on the group and how the GM describes the encounter. You don't want to give away the trick, but you don't want to hide it too much or the PCs may very well overlook it. Gauge your players' ability to pick up on the trick, encourage them when they do, and make sure they have a way out if they don't get it. Hope this helps!
#8 Neptune0923 Jun 17, 2011 15:43:09	Ummmm, I disagree, to an extent.  I ended the Seige of Bordin's Watch with the party going to Bordin's watch and getting sent out to fend off a surge of orcs trying to get through a breach in the walls.  The supply of orcs was endless and there were tens of thousands out there. Thing is that they trickled through the breach (2d4 at a time). The orcs were all 1hp minions and there were a a bunch of 1hp dwarves trying to keep them out. I let this play out for 5 rounds and their tally was somewhere around 4 dozen dead orcs. The battle ended as the orcs fled. It was a perfect climax to the adventure.
#9 nyteskie Jun 28, 2011 8:21:48	A wall breach in a siege wasn't exactly what I had in mind - more like where Han Solo runs into a barracks full of storm troopers in Ep IV. Even that isn't a perfect analogy, though, because there would have to be some mechanism the PCs could use/discover to eliminate the threat.  Let's redesign your encounter to something like what I think the OP is looking for. Same setup - the PCs are at Bordrin's Watch, and there's a wall breach. Instead of the orcs fleeing after 5 rounds, though, you would have the waves get progressively stronger as more orcs found their way through the breach. The waves would continue until the PCs could either 1) close the gap in the wall or 2) make a fighting retreat to a more defensible position. You would have to be careful to give some hints in your descriptions as to what's going on. Maybe the PCs can see what's coming in the next wave, and recognize a foe that might be beyond their abilities. Perhaps a group of dwarven engineers makes its way across the battlefield towards the breach, and the PCs have to protect them while they make repairs. Maybe there is some defensive trap that would serve to delay or decimate the orcs enough to stop the threat that the PCs have to activate. However you handle it, the unending waves of orcs and the numbers outside the wall would suggest to the PCs that they can't just fight all 10,000 orcs, and they have to stop the advance somehow.
#10 Rich_The_Mad Jun 29, 2011 13:51:16	In order to instill enough hatred of Modra and ensure the PCs will chase after him, and to name drop Sarshan a whole bunch, I had the skill challenge in Shadow Rift of Umbraforge happen BEFORE my party went into the Vents (after resculing Kalak from the Monastery). That allowed the party to view the weapons, etc, from the Vents attack in a darker light and realize that there's a bigger threat to just Modra, while tossing in a warehouse encounter where he got away to foster eniminity. (sp?)