If I decide to sign up, say, six months from now when most of the D&DI tools are up will I still be able to access the magazines from the previous months? Or are they only for subscribers who paid for those particular months?
What I don't know is if we will have to upgrade our subscription if we pay for a year or not. If the VTT comes out (unlikely as it seems) then will I have to upgrade from my 50ish dollars to a more expensive fee?
The answer is... "no". However, I believe this has only recently changed. I understood it to be otherwise until a week ago.
What I don't know is if we will have to upgrade our subscription if we pay for a year or not. If the VTT comes out (unlikely as it seems) then will I have to upgrade from my 50ish dollars to a more expensive fee?
I don't think thatit is a recent change as that has been my understanding for months. Of course it is kind of a moot point since you will always be able to access most of the stuff from the compendium even if you don't have the back issues.
And I believe that you'll have to upgrade at that point if you want access to the client side applications. If you only want the magazines and compendium though, then you should be fine without upgrading(I think).
You'll be able to buy back issues individually.
Has this been reaffirmed? Because there's been quite a few changes since this was originally announced.
Has this been reaffirmed? Because there's been quite a few changes since this was originally announced.
There has not been any announced change of this plan, if it has changed no one has told us yet. Of course plans clearly can change.
So (theoretically) if I subscribe on, oh, Tuesday, December 9th for three months I'll have access to whatever tools are available then (hopefully more than they have now) and no magazine content, with the previous article released on Monday and nothing until Wednesday.
Or will articles for the entire month (December 1-8th at least) be available?
Just wondering since otherwise, I'd be paying for a magazine that I might not really get for three weeks.
I'm also curious since I'm a substantial Ravenloft buff and I'm curious what they're doing with the setting at the end of this month. But I'm not thrilled about paying the same price for October's magazine when I'll be getting half the content for free.
Where was the initial announcement then? Can someone provide a link?
So (theoretically) if I subscribe on, oh, Tuesday, December 9th for three months I'll have access to whatever tools are available then (hopefully more than they have now) and no magazine content, with the previous article released on Monday and nothing until Wednesday.
Or will articles for the entire month (December 1-8th at least) be available?
Just wondering since otherwise, I'd be paying for a magazine that I might not really get for three weeks.
I'm also curious since I'm a substantial Ravenloft buff and I'm curious what they're doing with the setting at the end of this month. But I'm not thrilled about paying the same price for October's magazine when I'll be getting half the content for free.
I speculate (since nobody has answered these technical questions directly) that if you subscribe from Dec 9 to Feb 9 you'll have access to articles as they come out each week AND your account will be flagged for the Dec 08, Jan 09, and Feb 09 issues when they're compiled.
That way, even if Feb 09 isn't compiled until the 5th of March, you can login and download the issues you paid for while you were a subscriber.
This is the most logical way to proceed based on claims they've made to date about only having access to articles you paid for, etc.
Again, my speculation fills in the details, so I can't promise it will work anything at all like this. I'm just taking an educated guess.
Where was the initial announcement then? Can someone provide a link?
The three dollar plan was announced at a gather, posted by a user. Best I can do is try to search for the first posts of that understanding and perhaps that might provide more information as to whom of WotC made the statement concerning a plan. Even if I can find that first report, plans can and have changed. I will repeat I have not seen an official statement from WotC here or on the web page.
So (theoretically) if I subscribe on, oh, Tuesday, December 9th for three months I'll have access to whatever tools are available then (hopefully more than they have now) and no magazine content, with the previous article released on Monday and nothing until Wednesday.
Or will articles for the entire month (December 1-8th at least) be available?
Not explained, in theory you would not have access to Dec. 1-8 until completed ezine released. However during time you are an Insider, you should have full access to "rules elements" which would include a fuller description of them from days to months ago from the time you become an Insider.
Just wondering since otherwise, I'd be paying for a magazine that I might not really get for three weeks.
I'm also curious since I'm a substantial Ravenloft buff and I'm curious what they're doing with the setting at the end of this month. But I'm not thrilled about paying the same price for October's magazine when I'll be getting half the content for free.
Right now discussing theory, when the pay to see goes live we might get full answers.
If I were to guess I think they will go month to month with a few days grace (in order to get a completed ezine) with Oct. going pay sometime soon (soon for certain things means months and getting close to half a year) most likely will include all of Nov. for those that pay per month.
I suspect going by day of signup would just make compliance harder, however have not done any coding for years so that might not be as much of an issue these days.
I have not seen any official announcement concerning your concerns. As to the 3.00 per back issue I have not seen an official denial that such plan was going to be offered a few (or is the now many) months ago. It is just the best information I can provide you right now.
Considering they only want $5 for two magazines AND the bonus tools for a full month that seems a bit steep. Even at the $8 single-month rate that prices the etool's 'value' at $2 for a full month's use.
For what it's worth, I don't recall ever seeing anything about the price of back issues.
*bangs head*
The price and story has been out there for months, how valid the original claim is I do not know.
A statement from a user that did Game day or DDXP or some other Con/gather is all that started this. I can try to search for the first time 3.00 was mentioned to try to trace down the OP, however being on dialup and system search system it might take me weeks.
I do however know that the 3.00 price has been posted a few times, besides myself, as a stated plan.
*bangs head*
The price and story has been out there for months, how valid the original claim is I do not know.
A statement from a user that did Game day or DDXP or some other Con/gather is all that started this. I can try to search for the first time 3.00 was mentioned to try to trace down the OP, however being on dialup and system search system it might take me weeks.
I do however know that the 3.00 price has been posted a few times, besides myself, as a stated plan.
For what it's worth, not to add injury to your head, but you're the only source I've seen thus far that indicates a specific per-issue price.
I was at DDXP and I don't recall it being mentioned there.
I *do* know they've made mention of being able to purchase back-issues, I just don't recall a specific price being attached.
$3 seems reasonable to me, however, so I don't doubt it - but I'd love to see your source if you can find it.
For what it's worth, not to add injury to your head, but you're the only source I've seen thus far that indicates a specific per-issue price.
I was at DDXP and I don't recall it being mentioned there.
I *do* know they've made mention of being able to purchase back-issues, I just don't recall a specific price being attached.
$3 seems reasonable to me, however, so I don't doubt it - but I'd love to see your source if you can find it.
Well forum search did not help, not that I had much hope for that.
At this time all I can offer is I did read it someplace, best guess is a referring link from ENWorld or was actually posted on the website (though not even going to try that because I know that search does not work).
I am not a member of ENWorld and at times wonder why I remain a member here.
The end results is it really will take me weeks to find the 3.00 price quoted if is is still on any database, my only saving clause I can hope to point to was I have stated it has never been confirmed or rejected by WotC as a plan.
Well forum search did not help, not that I had much hope for that.
At this time all I can offer is I did read it someplace, best guess is a referring link from ENWorld or was actually posted on the website (though not even going to try that because I know that search does not work).
I am not a member of ENWorld and at times wonder why I remain a member here.
The end results is it really will take me weeks to find the 3.00 price quoted if is is still on any database, my only saving clause I can hope to point to was I have stated it has never been confirmed or rejected by WotC as a plan.
I, for one, am not gonna "rub your nose in it" if you don't have a source. I've just been avoiding quoting that price myself until I see a confirmation myself.
For what it's worth, you can use google to search any website (since the WotC Search is. . . poor). Just type "site:wizards.com " into Google and see if that nets you any hits. Heck, try site:enworld.com and you might find the forum post(s) as well.
To search the forums I'd recommend "site:forums.gleemax.com" rather then "site:wizards.com" (of course, don't include quote marks). I did a quick search and while I have seen the $3.00 price, and I believe I saw the original post, i couldn't find it.
Ah, you're right, I'm not awake enough to remember that the forums use a different domain. (Though I would search both wizards.com (for official announcements/newsposts) and the forums - for semi-official posts).
Thanks, John.
Source: http://paizo.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Store.woa/31/wa/browse?path=paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/4thEdition/archives/dDIInformationFromDDXP&wosid=jRyxdbollQSUjy0imHzG40
Donovan Vig, Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 02:51 PM A 3 Longtooth-the-Red-Dragon avatar
The dungeon and dragon PDF's were expected to sell for about $3.00 ea. the virtual Mini's had to be purchased seperately from the real ones at a discounted cost. The core books PDF thing is still undecided. They are leaning towards making them ALL available online only free to paying customers. An offline version of the PDF will be available for additional cost.
That price has been out there for months, and as far as this post I found I do not believe it is the OP I read before.
Grain of salt.
But given we're apparently "days" away from subscribing, there's still not alot of information on how this works or what we get for our money.
I'm feeling really comfortable giving this company my hard earned $8.
Well, at least a 3rd of the 3 claims there has changed drastically in the 7+ months since that was brainstormed. And given we're still likely 6+ months away from the gametable the v-minis thing is also likely to change.
Grain of salt.
What claims changed? Dates have been pushed back, but they haven't changed (for the worse) to my knowledge. The biggest change has been the addition of free v-minis (with some exceptions - believed to be those used in pre-generated modules).
But given we're apparently "days" away from subscribing, there's still not alot of information on how this works or what we get for our money.
I'm feeling really comfortable giving this company my hard earned $8.
The same post that told us about the $8 has told us exactly what $8 will get you, and I quote:
When we do flip the switch at some point in October (exact date to be announced) here’s what we will be charging for a subscription to D&D Insider:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)
And here’s what you get if you are a subscriber:
Access to the pages where PDFs of Dragon and Dungeon can be downloaded (including new articles three times per week and monthly full issue compilations).
Access to the pages where Bonus Tools are launched (currently the Ability Generator and the Encounter Builder, soon to include a Monster Builder as well).
Access to the D&D Compendium detail pages.
Non-subscribers will be able to launch the Compendium, search for things, and see what results are returned. However, non-subscribers will not be able to click on the name of the rules element in order to see what it actually does. In other words, non-subscribers can see what things exist and what book they should go buy if they want to read more but don’t want a D&DI subscription.
By the time we launch our subscription service, the Compendium will include content from all 4E books and magazines published through the end of September (including Adventurer’s Vault and FR Player’s Guide).
It seems weird that they wouldn't, considering they are putting all of their other content in pdf form for sale on drivethrurpg. Maybe they would hold off on it to entice people to subscribe. Subscription models often are the enemy of al a carte options, as any cable customer knows.
Btw I think $3 is totally reasonable for a magazine PDF. For example Kobold Quarterly is $6.
I believe the $3 amount comes from Scott Rouse, in an video interview, that's why it's not coming up in google. But since we haven't heard anything official about it in the last few months, who knows.
It seems weird that they wouldn't, considering they are putting all of their other content in pdf form for sale on drivethrurpg. Maybe they would hold off on it to entice people to subscribe. Subscription models often are the enemy of al a carte options, as any cable customer knows.
Btw I think $3 is totally reasonable for a magazine PDF. For example Kobold Quarterly is $6.
Yay a supporter in that I did not make the number up. I was feeling other enbattled with two VCL apparently believing I had no justification to use the number at all.
Of course if could find the vid, likely it would explain a plan which of course ...
Yay a supporter in that I did not make the number up. I was feeling other enbattled with two VCL apparently believing I had no justification to use the number at all.
Of course if could find the vid, likely it would explain a plan which of course ...
For the record, I didn't think you'd made it up, I just like to see official sources before I quote them myself.
The way speculation gets turned to rumor and is then touted as fact, it's the safest plan in the long run.
So, the question in my mind is (was?) is that an official statement, or was it rumor that's getting passed off as fact.
You've been as diligent as I've been in sticking to facts as much as possible - I'm just a stickler for verifying as many details as possible myself.
Not that I'm volunteering or anything, but I thought I'd try to be helpful. YouTube is like Lays Potato Chips to me; I can't ever stop at one video. ;)
Yay a supporter in that I did not make the number up. I was feeling other enbattled with two VCL apparently believing I had no justification to use the number at all.
I never said I didn't believe you. I just said that I had not seen any mention of a price at all.
What claims changed? Dates have been pushed back, but they haven't changed (for the worse) to my knowledge. The biggest change has been the addition of free v-minis (with some exceptions - believed to be those used in pre-generated modules).
He was talking about this:
Donovan Vig, Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 02:51 PM A 3 Longtooth-the-Red-Dragon avatar
The dungeon and dragon PDF's were expected to sell for about $3.00 ea. the virtual Mini's had to be purchased seperately from the real ones at a discounted cost. The core books PDF thing is still undecided. They are leaning towards making them ALL available online only free to paying customers. An offline version of the PDF will be available for additional cost.
The claims that had changed since this post was made were that 1) V-minis no longer are being charged for, 2)online versions of the books aren't going to be made, and 3)no offline copies for an additional cost.
Of course if could find the vid, likely it would explain a plan which of course ...
Rhen to the Rhescue....or something like that...
I braved my YouTube addiction and found the video for you. You can find it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OFQt3aQTo
No need for thanks; just throw money. ;)
That being said, with the number of changes that have gone on in the DDI plans, I would not take a statement made 8 months ago as binding now. The business plan for DDI has changed significantly since then.
But as Mudbunny says it's a bit out of date. I'll believe it when I can do it.
Still hoping though.
You asked for a video with Scott Rouse talking about pricing and mentioning three dolars. I delivered.
*kicks badger on his way out muttering "now they want up-to-date blah blah...."
:D
Oh, see, now you're all like "we want up-to-date as well."
You asked for a video with Scott Rouse talking about pricing and mentioning three dolars. I delivered.
*kicks badger on his way out muttering "now they want up-to-date blah blah...."
:D
S'good enough for me to quote as a "stated price".
Oh, see, now you're all like "we want up-to-date as well."
You asked for a video with Scott Rouse talking about pricing and mentioning three dolars. I delivered.
*kicks badger on his way out muttering "now they want up-to-date blah blah...."
:D
Pencils Rhen in as Offical Youtube video checker.
:D
Now, about that throwing money part........ ;)
Thank you, WolfStar!
Now, about that throwing money part........ ;)
As soon as we get money, you get money.
:D
Thank you, WolfStar!
Now, about that throwing money part........ ;)
Are you sure?
Did I mention that where I'm from currency is traded on two-ton slabs of stone?
*prepares the catapult*
Are you sure?
Did I mention that where I'm from currency is traded on two-ton slabs of stone?
*prepares the catapult*
Hangs his head in shame
That was a much better comeback.
Are you sure?
Did I mention that where I'm from currency is traded on two-ton slabs of stone?
*prepares the catapult*
Okay, so maybe I have enough money and all. Don't strain yourself there, wolfie. ;)
Hangs his head in shame
That was a much better comeback.
Aww, that's okay, mudbunny. I thought your reply was...adequate. :D
And thank you, Kentinal for the cha-ching. It's why I do these things.
Yes I know this plan is old and there have been many changes to parts of the overall plan so indeed it is not certain. It just was the most recent announced plan concerning back issues. As my sig. indicates we have no idea if the plan has been changed. Considering other pricing odds are good even then price was likely to be announced at 2.95 not sure why marketing believes the nickel makes so much of a difference, however that is widespread in the Industry ("For just under (foo) dollars").
We often are working off old information because it is so hard to get new updates.
I suspect we will be getting something new, however not sure how comprehensive it will be.
What claims changed? Dates have been pushed back, but they haven't changed (for the worse) to my knowledge. The biggest change has been the addition of free v-minis (with some exceptions - believed to be those used in pre-generated modules).
The core books PDF thing is still undecided. They are leaning towards making them ALL available online only free to paying customers. An offline version of the PDF will be available for additional cost.
I'd say that plan changed.
Now they're 'free' so far as some of the content is in the compendium.
And since you pointed out the v-minis, I guess that means 2 of the 3 claims in that quote have changed...
The same post that told us about the $8 has told us exactly what $8 will get you, and I quote:
Yeah...
When we do flip the switch at some point in October (exact date to be announced) here’s what we will be charging for a subscription to D&D Insider:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)
And here’s what you get if you are a subscriber:
Access to the pages where PDFs of Dragon and Dungeon can be downloaded (including new articles three times per week and monthly full issue compilations).
Access to the pages where Bonus Tools are launched.
Access to the D&D Compendium detail pages.
Emphasis added.
Does get very specific, just "access to the pages". Access to the pages where all the PDFs can be downloaded, access to the page where the PDF could be downloaded at the end of the month, or access to the page where the PDF of the month you paid for can be downloaded?
It's still unspecific about other details.
I pay for a magazine for one month. It's mine. Two days after my account expires my hard disc implodes. Can I re-download the magazine? Do I always have acccess in my account, even if no longer current, to that month's content?
And, as you yourself said, no one has answered other technical questions like the one I posed earlier about subscribing mid-month and which articles can be seen.
But since WotC is doing their usual phenomenal job of information management the only way I'm really going to find out is to wait until it goes live and risk my limited funds (post-secondary student getting $ from the gov't and prohibited from working >20hrs/week) on the content. Or wait till it goes live and ask other users more able to take the risk.
Emphasis added.
Does get very specific, just "access to the pages". Access to the pages where all the PDFs can be downloaded, access to the page where the PDF could be downloaded at the end of the month, or access to the page where the PDF of the month you paid for can be downloaded?
I don't deny that WotC has an odd habit of speaking in plain English when we want specifics, and specifics when we want plain English. ^_^
In this case I suppose the distinction is because the free content (Editorials and the like) don't have download pages, and anyone can see the "preview" pages of PDf articles (the quick, single-paragraph blurb of what the content on the PDF is).
To that end, I further suspect that the full magazine content is also going to be behind such a page (IE - require a login to download) so, despite being worded awkwardly, yes, this would get you access to articles, AND issues that you've paid for.
It's still unspecific about other details.
I pay for a magazine for one month. It's mine. Two days after my account expires my hard disc implodes. Can I re-download the magazine? Do I always have acccess in my account, even if no longer current, to that month's content?
Previous Q&A's have indicated that yes, if you pay for Oct 2008 (only), and then need a new copy of that issue in Summer 2009 (to pick an arbitrary date) you'll be able to login and re-download that article.
And, as you yourself said, no one has answered other technical questions like the one I posed earlier about subscribing mid-month and which articles can be seen.
Agreed, though I think you're the only person I've seen ask the question. Still a good one tho.
But since WotC is doing their usual phenomenal job of information management the only way I'm really going to find out is to wait until it goes live and risk my limited funds (post-secondary student getting $ from the gov't and prohibited from working >20hrs/week) on the content. Or wait till it goes live and ask other users more able to take the risk.
Have you tried e-mailing [email]dndinsider@wizards.com[/email] to see what, if any, answers they might be able to provide? We all know there's a poor signal-to-noise ratio here in the forums, it may be that a direct connection might help.
You could then relay answers to us, and be not unlike a minor prophet.
But given this thread is one of three on the issue I'd argue that people don't know or don't know where to find the information. While you reference a Q&A, I don't see that on top of the forum, and the FAQ looks like it's filled with unanswered questions (except regarding the game table).
If you don't purchase from day one you will not be able to get at the completed mags?
Just seems like half-assed being done.
So are the pdfs going to be locked down with some DRM or something of that note?
If you don't purchase from day one you will not be able to get at the completed mags?
Just seems like half-assed being done.
They haven't said yet - though I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the PDFs are watermarked much like is done over at Drive-THRU RPG.
At the risk of sounding like I'm hedging - I also won't be surprised if they don't DRM them right away. It's one of those "M'eh" issues. I can understand why they'd want that protection, and I can also understand if it's "one more backend" that they'd have to install and get working first.
I'm not impressed enough with Dragon and Dungeon to switch right now. But I might eventually be worn down, especially as the new tools come out.
If I decide to sign up, say, six months from now when most of the D&DI tools are up will I still be able to access the magazines from the previous months? Or are they only for subscribers who paid for those particular months?
I'm actually of the opposite opinion. The 3.5 Dragon magazine had horribly designed and balanced content. The 4e version actually contains material I would use. I'm highly pleased with it.
As for the back issue thing. I believe the most sensible solution would be to not allow unrestricted access to Dungeon/Dragon issues released during months where your subscription wasn't active. Then allow you to individually purchase that content at a small fee. This should prevent people signing up for one month and downloading everything then canceling their subscription, yet still allow those who signed up late to access the material.
Micropayment models have worked very well in videogames. I don't see why they wouldn't work great here as well. Offering an advantage to those who maintain a steady subscription gives Wizards a more consistent, reliable return on the Dragon investment though, meaning they can safely dedicate more resources to it.
So are the pdfs going to be locked down with some DRM or something of that note?
If you don't purchase from day one you will not be able to get at the completed mags?
Just seems like half-assed being done.
I hope not. DRM is a terrible, terrible thing. I can't think of a single positive thing that has come from it, but I can show quite a few examples where a company tried to use it and it completely backfired on them.
Rootkit anyone?
Spore and the Amazon backlash?
Walmarts most recent DRM server fiasco?
And what was DRM supposed to give? Some sort of false security for something isn't really a problem. That hasn't happened either.
Seriously, DRM is a poison pill. Just avoid it and save yourself a headache.
WotC has done pretty much exactly the right thing in the past with this area, and I hope they continue that.
I don't recall any mention at all of any sort of DRM being involved in the .pdfs.
I am not saying that there will not be any, just if there is, I haven't been told about it.
As for the back issue thing. I believe the most sensible solution would be to not allow unrestricted access to Dungeon/Dragon issues released during months where your subscription wasn't active. Then allow you to individually purchase that content at a small fee. This should prevent people signing up for one month and downloading everything then canceling their subscription, yet still allow those who signed up late to access the material.
Micropayment models have worked very well in videogames. I don't see why they wouldn't work great here as well. Offering an advantage to those who maintain a steady subscription gives Wizards a more consistent, reliable return on the Dragon investment though, meaning they can safely dedicate more resources to it.
Yeah, I just hope the back issue fee is cheap, especially given there's no material hard copy of the product. The magazines should be making their money from the initial subscriptions and shouldn't have to tap into back issues sales to turn a profit, which means paying for the back issues should be a minor cost to compensate for bandwidth.
$3 for something you've already made money on and covering $0.25 worth of bandwidth. $2.75 is alot of straight profit...
A bulk discount also wouldn't be unreasonable, to encourage new users to buy many back issues. Start at a couple bucks for the first few then half the price for additional back issues or something.
Of course, it will be a year or two before that's really necessary.
On the counter-point, you should have access to much of the text of ALL the back issues through the compendium (or at least the rules).
So if back issues or articles are extra, you're pretty much charging for fluff or editorials. Confessions of a Full-time Wizard is alright (I dislike her prose style and attitudes to/perceptions of female gamers, but that's personal taste and another rant) but I don't want to PAY for it. I'm paying for the feats/ powers/ items/ rituals/ monsters, which I'll technically have through the Compendium.
The big announcement still tells me NOTHING.
Reference: http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/4news/20081013
We will leave some portions of those features available for free so that folks may continue to try them out and decide whether they want to subscribe. Specifically, level 1-3 content from the core rulebooks will remain accessible to everyone in the Compendium (plus you will be able to see titles and source references for all other content), and the first several online Dragon and Dungeon issues will stay free as well. Note that the feature articles from the October issues will disappear behind the firewall tomorrow with the exception of the Barbarian playtest article, which we are choosing to leave as a free sample article.