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Add Templates

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
unimportanthero
Oct 27, 2011 4:02:34 So I noticed this evening that the ritual for becoming a lich has been added. Or it was always there and I never noticed.

Either way, rad.

But the ritual adds a template to the character when performed. Now before anyone goes and says that only NPC's should be liches or whatnot... the ritual is in there and so it is possible. For those games in which the dungeon master allows such things, it would be nice to be able to apply the template to a player character in the Character Builder program. I know it would be like adding a whole new feature. So I think it could instead be done by ... I dunno ... perhaps adding it somehow into the housee ruled option for selecting feats and powers? Program in templates as a feat or something that can only be selected through the house rules button?

Just a thought.
#2
salla
Oct 27, 2011 17:19:06 If you use the ritual, you become an NPC, so it's not needed in a player resource like the Character Builder.
#3
drnick
Oct 27, 2011 18:40:34 Yeah but it's not in the monster builder either.
#4
Osgood
Oct 28, 2011 7:42:36 Adding templates, and alternate powers, to the Monster Builder would be really nice. I'm surprised this has never happened after all this time.
#5
unimportanthero
Oct 28, 2011 13:55:46
If you use the ritual, you become an NPC, so it's not needed in a player resource like the Character Builder.

Nothing in the ritual description says that a character becomes an NPC when the ritual is used. The lich template itself only recommends it for NPC's as well. The decion as to whether or not a player character becomes an NPC after using the ritual is left wholly up to the dungeon master unless there is something that I have missed in both the ritual or template descriptions.

Just saying, is all.

The real downside to the lich template (which would make a character difficult to play unless the party characters all have necrotic resistance) is the necrotic aura, which affects creatures and not simply enemies.
#6
salla
Oct 28, 2011 13:58:49 By the definition of Templates, they only go on NPCs/Monsters. Therefore, if a template is applied to a creature, it is an NPC/monster.
#7
unimportanthero
Oct 28, 2011 14:12:05 Right. But that is simply one understanding of a fact that is left wholly up to implication. Based on the wording in the ritual, it can also be just as easily implied that the ritual is the exception to that rule. The same is true - to my understanding - of the ritual which allows a player character to be transformed into a Vampire Lord. It is a ritual which can be purchased and mastered by player characters but it is also a ritual which requires that the caster be a Vampire Lord. Some might say that this means no one can cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions.

It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule.
#8
kenjoon
Oct 28, 2011 17:36:19
Right. But that is simply one understanding of a fact that is left wholly up to implication. Based on the wording in the ritual, it can also be just as easily implied that the ritual is the exception to that rule. The same is true - to my understanding - of the ritual which allows a player character to be transformed into a Vampire Lord. It is a ritual which can be purchased and mastered by player characters but it is also a ritual which requires that the caster be a Vampire Lord. Some might say that this means no one can cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions.

It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule.

Well....pretty much false. On page 174 of the DMG you find the chapter on "Customizing Monsters".

Page 175 second paragraph under the heading "Templates":
This section provides more than a dozen templates for customizing monsters. Functional templates adapt a monster to a given purpose in an adventure. You can also add a functional template to a nonplayer character. See "Creating NPCs" on page 186 for more information. Class templates allow you to add features of a specific character class to a monster.

If that's not enough for you then there's the little fact that adding a template to a standard creature makes it into an elite. AFAIK there is no such thing as an "elite PC". You would essentially be doubling the PC's HP's with no commensurate change to the parties encounter calculations.
#9
salla
Oct 28, 2011 19:15:47
n cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions.

It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule.

Yes, there is a hard and fast rule.
The rules for Templates state that they are for NPCs/Monsters. Therefore, they only go on NPCs/Monsters.
#10
dcoffron
Oct 31, 2011 2:32:20 To add to the argument that templates should only go on NPCs, some of the powers recharge on a die roll which I haven't found any class or race attacks that do that.

Also, there are some templates that can be placed on PCs. They are called character themes. For more information look in Dragon magazines and in forums.

There are a lot of forums asking for character themes in the character builder. UnimportantHero, if you want your character to be a Lich in the character builder, first request for character themes to be in the character builder, then request for the Lich theme. I think thats your best bet.
#11
dcoffron
Oct 31, 2011 2:33:42 Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post.
#12
Marandahir
Oct 31, 2011 5:24:45
Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post.

>_<

Themes are in the Character Builder.

>_<

Themes will only exist if they're published. You can't REQUEST a Lich Theme. Or at least, requesting for one won't just make it suddenly appear there. It needs to be published in a book or article first. You could pitch a Dragon article to dndinsider@wizards.com for a Character Theme: Lich. That might work. But only if they decide they want your article, and publish you with it.

#13
salla
Oct 31, 2011 13:32:08 See also: Archlich Epic Destiny.
#14
dcoffron
Oct 31, 2011 15:23:54
Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post.

>_<

Themes are in the Character Builder.

>_<

Themes will only exist if they're published. You can't REQUEST a Lich Theme. Or at least, requesting for one won't just make it suddenly appear there. It needs to be published in a book or article first. You could pitch a Dragon article to dndinsider@wizards.com for a Character Theme: Lich. That might work. But only if they decide they want your article, and publish you with it.

Where do you put themes on in the character builder
#15
Kired25
Oct 31, 2011 18:54:29 The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box.
#16
dcoffron
Nov 01, 2011 17:07:53
The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box.

thanks
#17
dcoffron
Nov 01, 2011 17:09:19
The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box.

thanks
#18
dcoffron
Nov 01, 2011 17:09:51 sorry i posted twice

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 unimportanthero Oct 27, 2011 4:02:34	So I noticed this evening that the ritual for becoming a lich has been added. Or it was always there and I never noticed. Either way, rad. But the ritual adds a template to the character when performed. Now before anyone goes and says that only NPC's should be liches or whatnot... the ritual is in there and so it is possible. For those games in which the dungeon master allows such things, it would be nice to be able to apply the template to a player character in the Character Builder program. I know it would be like adding a whole new feature. So I think it could instead be done by ... I dunno ... perhaps adding it somehow into the housee ruled option for selecting feats and powers? Program in templates as a feat or something that can only be selected through the house rules button? Just a thought.
#2 salla Oct 27, 2011 17:19:06	If you use the ritual, you become an NPC, so it's not needed in a player resource like the Character Builder.
#3 drnick Oct 27, 2011 18:40:34	Yeah but it's not in the monster builder either.
#4 Osgood Oct 28, 2011 7:42:36	Adding templates, and alternate powers, to the Monster Builder would be really nice. I'm surprised this has never happened after all this time.
#5 unimportanthero Oct 28, 2011 13:55:46	If you use the ritual, you become an NPC, so it's not needed in a player resource like the Character Builder. Nothing in the ritual description says that a character becomes an NPC when the ritual is used. The lich template itself only recommends it for NPC's as well. The decion as to whether or not a player character becomes an NPC after using the ritual is left wholly up to the dungeon master unless there is something that I have missed in both the ritual or template descriptions. Just saying, is all. The real downside to the lich template (which would make a character difficult to play unless the party characters all have necrotic resistance) is the necrotic aura, which affects creatures and not simply enemies.
#6 salla Oct 28, 2011 13:58:49	By the definition of Templates, they only go on NPCs/Monsters. Therefore, if a template is applied to a creature, it is an NPC/monster.
#7 unimportanthero Oct 28, 2011 14:12:05	Right. But that is simply one understanding of a fact that is left wholly up to implication. Based on the wording in the ritual, it can also be just as easily implied that the ritual is the exception to that rule. The same is true - to my understanding - of the ritual which allows a player character to be transformed into a Vampire Lord. It is a ritual which can be purchased and mastered by player characters but it is also a ritual which requires that the caster be a Vampire Lord. Some might say that this means no one can cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions. It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule.
#8 kenjoon Oct 28, 2011 17:36:19	Right. But that is simply one understanding of a fact that is left wholly up to implication. Based on the wording in the ritual, it can also be just as easily implied that the ritual is the exception to that rule. The same is true - to my understanding - of the ritual which allows a player character to be transformed into a Vampire Lord. It is a ritual which can be purchased and mastered by player characters but it is also a ritual which requires that the caster be a Vampire Lord. Some might say that this means no one can cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions. It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule. Well....pretty much false. On page 174 of the DMG you find the chapter on "Customizing Monsters". Page 175 second paragraph under the heading "Templates": This section provides more than a dozen templates for customizing monsters. Functional templates adapt a monster to a given purpose in an adventure. You can also add a functional template to a nonplayer character. See "Creating NPCs" on page 186 for more information. Class templates allow you to add features of a specific character class to a monster. If that's not enough for you then there's the little fact that adding a template to a standard creature makes it into an elite. AFAIK there is no such thing as an "elite PC". You would essentially be doubling the PC's HP's with no commensurate change to the parties encounter calculations.
#9 salla Oct 28, 2011 19:15:47	n cast it but it also could be read as showing that there can be exceptions. It is ultimately up to the dungeon master in question, as there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule. Yes, there is a hard and fast rule. The rules for Templates state that they are for NPCs/Monsters. Therefore, they only go on NPCs/Monsters.
#10 dcoffron Oct 31, 2011 2:32:20	To add to the argument that templates should only go on NPCs, some of the powers recharge on a die roll which I haven't found any class or race attacks that do that. Also, there are some templates that can be placed on PCs. They are called character themes. For more information look in Dragon magazines and in forums. There are a lot of forums asking for character themes in the character builder. UnimportantHero, if you want your character to be a Lich in the character builder, first request for character themes to be in the character builder, then request for the Lich theme. I think thats your best bet.
#11 dcoffron Oct 31, 2011 2:33:42	Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post.
#12 Marandahir Oct 31, 2011 5:24:45	Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post. >_< Themes are in the Character Builder. >_< Themes will only exist if they're published. You can't REQUEST a Lich Theme. Or at least, requesting for one won't just make it suddenly appear there. It needs to be published in a book or article first. You could pitch a Dragon article to dndinsider@wizards.com for a Character Theme: Lich. That might work. But only if they decide they want your article, and publish you with it.
#13 salla Oct 31, 2011 13:32:08	See also: Archlich Epic Destiny.
#14 dcoffron Oct 31, 2011 15:23:54	Oh, and if you know where you can request things like that, please post. >_< Themes are in the Character Builder. >_< Themes will only exist if they're published. You can't REQUEST a Lich Theme. Or at least, requesting for one won't just make it suddenly appear there. It needs to be published in a book or article first. You could pitch a Dragon article to dndinsider@wizards.com for a Character Theme: Lich. That might work. But only if they decide they want your article, and publish you with it. Where do you put themes on in the character builder
#15 Kired25 Oct 31, 2011 18:54:29	The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box.
#16 dcoffron Nov 01, 2011 17:07:53	The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box. thanks
#17 dcoffron Nov 01, 2011 17:09:19	The third tab of the character builder, "Add Additional Character Details." It's the first option under the personality traits text box. thanks
#18 dcoffron Nov 01, 2011 17:09:51	sorry i posted twice