| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1trismichMar 05, 2011 12:36:06 | Hey all, Just a quick one. Subscribed to DDI the other day and so far liking what it gives you. Downloaded the adventure tools so i could play around with the monster builder, which seems pretty cool. The thing i noticed is, there seems to be spaces for more stuff on the adventure tools 'title screen'. Is there more stuff to come? If so, anyone know what? Thanks. |
| #2AgonarMar 05, 2011 17:19:46 | I don't really know if anyone knows what is to come. We know what we would like to come. If you use the offline version of the Adventure Tools, you can customize monsters. If you use the Online version, right now all you can do +/- the level of the monster, but they are working on it. |
| #3tsukinousagiMar 06, 2011 7:42:49 | In the beginning Wizards was full of promises, and big sounding ideas. Then it became clear they knew little about software, and appeared uninterested in hiring anyone that did. We miiiiight get the virtual table top in time for 5th edition. Don't hold your breath. |
| #4AgonarMar 06, 2011 8:50:43 | In the beginning Wizards was full of promises, and big sounding ideas. I have been in the VT beta, and it is looking pretty sweet. Some of the bugs are taking a little longer to iron out, but overall it is a pretty solid thing. And in the next day or so, they are reopening it, and going to be expanding the list of Beta participants to all DDI subscribers. Sub up if you want to check it out,. |
| #5lokiareMar 06, 2011 18:27:01 | In the beginning Wizards was full of promises, and big sounding ideas. That's what they want. A bunch of subs so they can tout DDi as a success to Hasbro. Don't do it, its a trick... |
| #6AgonarMar 06, 2011 21:28:51 | That's what they want. A bunch of subs so they can tout DDi as a success to Hasbro. Don't do it, its a trick... I have the DDI icon under my name, and personally I think it was worth resubbing for a year. But, I can see that some might not think so. . . There are some that also think that Essentials is 5.x in disguise, and any class in it invalidates everything 4e. If yer wary, sub up for a month and check it out. If you look in the DDI folder, there is a huge thread with us VT regulars that are waiting for it to come back, it's that fun. |
| #7FrozenWastesMar 06, 2011 22:20:25 | I've been playing 4E since before it came out (Keep on the Shadowfell Pregens/Rules). Only today did I finally subscribe to DDi. Why? All content is now being vetted through the same design/development process as the published books. The online CB is getting better and better. While I'm primarily a table top player, if the VT becomes truly workable and excellent, that could change things. Basically, DDI is *finally* becoming what they said it would be when they started. |
| #8Damon_TorMar 08, 2011 4:45:28 | All content is now being vetted through the same design/development process as the published books. I really don't understand the appeal of this. These are the same people that gave us the Scout free attack incompatability, the over-complexity of the hexblade's dual weapon/implement interactions, the "wut" factor of the gauntlet axe, the power points scaling problem, the resounding thunder infinite damage bug... I could go on. The stuff produced by the magazine has been less buggy than stuff put to print, and they've done a better job of fixing the broken stuff in a timely manner. If anything, they should do the reverse, and publish everything they intend to print in dragon before they commit it to the presses, that way they can have the people who have a basic understanding of the game spot the really glaring errors. (Case in point, I spotted the scout problem 5 minutes after they showed us the preview. Really? They didn't see that? How did they miss it???) The idea that the magazine quality will improve by having even more people fiddle with the powers is absurd: that's how you get designed-by-committee horrors like the priests of Vecna article. The VTT is a good and valuable service I see garnering alot of new subscribers. However, the fact that it appears it's designed to use a microtransaction revenue generation model for access to things like certain monsters and dungeon tiles, and the fact that they have yet to announce whether or not it will even be included with the standard DDI membership, means using it to justify the cost of a DDI subscription is premature at best. Right now, DDI is you paying to be a beta-tester. The OCB is effectively in beta, the VT is explicitly in beta, and the magazines are in a transitional period. Why buy in when it's becoming what they said it would? Why not buy in when it actually is what they said it would be? It's like all those guys in the eighties that put down a hundred thousand bucks for the flying cars that were almost ready. Those guys are still waiting. |
| #9FrozenWastesMar 08, 2011 5:54:32 |
But look at what actually makes those instances into actual problems. Rules lawyering. The designers and developers of 4E are primary assuming that the game is played by human beings. People who would look at something and go "that can't be right" and not allow infinite damage, or tell the person insisting the scout can't possibly use their power attack to calm down and stop with the rules laywering. I don't even know what the hexblade issue is. He has to hold a rod in one hand to create his pact blade. Care to send a link my way? And as for the gauntlet axe, it looks kind of cool to me. It's like the bladed shield, but an axe. I don't think anything about it is that broken given it's a superior weapon and costs a feat. Basically the devs of 4E might release things that make strange interactions in the hands of someone intentionally attempting to break them, but work perfectly fine in a game where people are playing to the system's strengths and not trying purposefully trying to make loophole builds. So when I say I signed up because the devs are doing their process on DDi content now as well, it's not that I expect them to catch every little bit of problematic interactions that only come up when people intentionally try to break the system, but that I know the content will be checked over in terms of filling design space that is actually useful to the average player. Essentials gives me confidence in their abilities. It's utterly revitalized the local gaming scene. They designed classes to give people options who want a different experience of play. Now those players who just want to go "I hit it with my sword" can do so, right alongside a player who constructing a chain of actions that all interact with one another. I want the people who accomplished that having oversight over Dragon and Dungeon. Right now, DDI is you paying to be a beta-tester. The OCB is effectively in beta, the VT is explicitly in beta, and the magazines are in a transitional period. Why buy in when it's becoming what they said it would? Why not buy in when it actually is what they said it would be? Because it's close enough? I tried my friend's OCB and everything I tried worked?. I read a few of the latest dragon and dungeon articles and liked them? All the old Dragon content has been sufficiently errata'd when there were problems. The compendium search engine works well now and is quite snappy in terms of load times. I'm curious where Adventure Tools is going to head. I like the current monster builder, but if they come out with an online version that is as clear and "step by step" as the online character builder, that would be even better. For accessing existing monsters, the compendium is more than sufficient. |
| #10lokiareMar 08, 2011 20:31:44 | It's like all those guys in the eighties that put down a hundred thousand bucks for the flying cars that were almost ready. Those guys are still waiting. This just proves its a viable business model. So companies like WotC are taking advantage of it and making money. Nothing wrong with a company making money right? |
| #11Damon_TorMar 09, 2011 4:14:34 |
My point was: the QA guys are not better at catching bugs and balance problems than the magazines editors had been. Whether those bugs and other were ignorable or not is another matter entirely. I don't even know what the hexblade issue is. He has to hold a rod in one hand to create his pact blade. Care to send a link my way? The powers become difficult to parse when you add in things like dual implement spellcaster, arcane implement proficiency, pact blades, superior implements and such. Not an example of a bug or imbalance, an example of confusing interactions. And as for the gauntlet axe, it looks kind of cool to me. It's like the bladed shield, but an axe. I don't think anything about it is that broken given it's a superior weapon and costs a feat. Both bugged and confusing. It counts as a light shield: this means you get a +1 shield bonus to AC and reflex, but then the weapon also has the defensive property. It's doubtful the weapon is supposed to grant +2 to AC. Further, the nature of the "free hand" is unclear, since a Q&A entry has stated it doesn't count as a free hand for some purposes (Swordmage Warding and Brawler Style) without really explaining how to determine which situations it can and cannot be used as a free hand for. Basically the devs of 4E might release things that make strange interactions in the hands of someone intentionally attempting to break them, but work perfectly fine in a game where people are playing to the system's strengths and not trying purposefully trying to make loophole builds. And so what, then, is the benefit of running the magazine articles through QA? So when I say I signed up because the devs are doing their process on DDi content now as well, it's not that I expect them to catch every little bit of problematic interactions that only come up when people intentionally try to break the system, but that I know the content will be checked over in terms of filling design space that is actually useful to the average player. Wait... Wait, what change do you think has occurred in the design process? The new magazine content is being put through the same quality assurance process as the printed books, meaning they playtest and edit them for balance and errors. I'm not even sure what you're saying you think is happening. I think this is key to your misunderstanding. No changes to how the magazines are authored has occurred, the only change is to how those articles are edited. Hence, my problem with the Priests of Vecna article. When the Command Undead power was previewed it was useful and interesting, but by the time the QA guys were done with it it was clunky, boring, and mechanically worthless all at the same time. Essentials gives me confidence in their abilities. It's utterly revitalized the local gaming scene. They designed classes to give people options who want a different experience of play. Now those players who just want to go "I hit it with my sword" can do so, right alongside a player who constructing a chain of actions that all interact with one another. I want the people who accomplished that having oversight over Dragon and Dungeon. I'm glad your experience is so different from my own. I'm curious where Adventure Tools is going to head. I like the current monster builder, but if they come out with an online version that is as clear and "step by step" as the online character builder, that would be even better. Prepare to be disappointed. |
| #12Damon_TorMar 09, 2011 13:22:29 | It's like all those guys in the eighties that put down a hundred thousand bucks for the flying cars that were almost ready. Those guys are still waiting. The sad thing is, my father was one of those guys. He's still embarrased about it, and we still tease him. |
| #13renau1gMar 10, 2011 15:30:02 | Meh, if he had $100k to drop on a flying car I'm sure he's not hurting for dough and I'd like to feel bad for him, but sadly I don't have $100k for such luxury so I'm in no position... ;) |
| #14Damon_TorMar 10, 2011 18:21:56 | Meh, if he had $100k to drop on a flying car I'm sure he's not hurting for dough and I'd like to feel bad for him, but sadly I don't have $100k for such luxury so I'm in no position... ;) That was in the 80s. His financial situation right now is fine, but it's not what it was back then. (Not to get too much into it, the business he and my mom own was hit by a wave of frivolous lawsuits in the 90s; they lost everything. Even though they never actually lost a case, the legal fees and bad publicity destroyed what they had built. They reopened in 2001, and it's doing fine, but it's still a decade or so away from being what it had been then back then.) But anyway, mostly our teasing is from the period when I was in highschool in the 90s, when we didn't have that kind of money. "Gee dad, the Suburban is busted again, and we don't have the money for a new one? Let's just take the flying car!" It sounds meaner than it was, we're pretty easy-going people. |
| #15lokiareMar 11, 2011 2:37:31 | As I said its a proven business model. I'm surprised more companies don't use it... |
| #16DMapleMar 14, 2011 11:10:43 | I've been playing 4E since before it came out (Keep on the Shadowfell Pregens/Rules). Only today did I finally subscribe to DDi. Why? All content is now being vetted through the same design/development process as the published books. The online CB is getting better and better. While I'm primarily a table top player, if the VT becomes truly workable and excellent, that could change things. Basically, DDI is *finally* becoming what they said it would be when they started. Really? You only subscribed now.... Now we are getting half the content we use to get from Dragon/Dungeon. Sure it is going through R&D but the feats we are getting are just a buggy as they were before, as evidenced by the update to the Genasi of Athas article that only corrected OBVIOUS faults found in minutes by members, not R&D. The only thing R&D seemed to have managed is to make things come out weeks late and still faulty. All that non-R&D stuff is still in the compendium and character builder, and you can't even limit your sources with campaign rules like you could in the old character builder so it is all allowed. Now we have a online character builder that isn't anywhere near as functional as the old one, and won't be for at least another 6 months. Now when we have a MB that doesn't work thanks to an update they did (about the time they decided to start working on moving the tools online, strange coincidence). Now after they raised the subscription price justifying it with the promise of further adventure tools which they didn't actually work on. You really think the subscription is better value for money now that it was say 6 or even 12 months ago? |
| #17linusMar 14, 2011 12:09:00 | +1 to DMaple. I will not be renewing. There is no substantive value in the subscription anymore. I am an avid 4e player, enjoy it very much, but I will not renew a subscription to a nigh useless product. When my sub began at the very beginning, it was a valuable asset. No longer. I do hope that those enjoying and continuing to subscribe do not constitute the majority. The only way change and improvement will occur is through financial blackmail on the part of those voting with their wallets and feet. Its got great potential, and at one time delivered. I'd like to see it get back to that state. |
| #18dunjinbastidMar 22, 2011 5:43:12 | I think the functionality of the OCB/MB was crippled when they decided to issue a C&D order against the creators of Masterplan campaign designer for allowing the program to import libraries from the Compendium. They didn't want their property to be dissected by a 3rd party and *I think* sabotaged their own product to prevent such integration. A smart move (the only move, actually) by Wizards, but ultimately a bad call for the sake of the community at whole. I have reactivated my DDI subscription in hopes that the MB update promised in late March will be worthwhile. My gamers have come to adopt the OCB to track progress finally, so why not use the few tools available to make the process a little more streamline? Is it worth it? That's up to the individual. I'm benefitting, and I don't mind the few bucks a month as much as others might. |
| #19Damon_TorMar 22, 2011 10:58:14 | I have reactivated my DDI subscription in hopes that the MB update promised in late March will be worthwhile. *Eats more popcorn* "Munch munch munch..." *Sip of soda* "Sluuuuurp..." I've got to pee, but I don't want to miss this... |
| #20AlphastreamMar 22, 2011 13:25:05 | Hey all, So, back to the original topic, the Monster Builder offline software is no longer actively developed. Instead, the tool will be part of an online suite. The current offering is the online character builder (initially far inferior to the offline version but rapidly improving to where a fair share prefer it to the old one), the online Adventure Tools / Monster Builder (currently displays all the monsters and allows level changes, but a new version is due out today... ah, here it is), and the Virtual Table Top (VTT, works very well for running D&D games online). The tools work together, with the VTT currently importing your PC from the CB and monsters that were exported from the MB. Now, as to the other spaces you saw on the old MB, it has never been revealed what those were/will be. We can guess that one of them was the VTT. Another is likely some form of encounter builder (it has been hinted that we might see something like this). We know more tools are in development, but have been delayed. I completely understand the frustration many feel. I feel it too, trust me. At the same time, negativity will not help us. Providing constant positive feedback is far better and does more to get what we want (I know this from speaking to WotC design team members). |
| #21whatamiMar 22, 2011 13:42:02 |
That's like telling a misbahaving child "It's ok..." But fine.... positive feedback about the monster builder, hmmm Thanks for the nifty silder |
| #22dunjinbastidMar 22, 2011 14:18:06 | The new MB seems to respond much faster than the offline counterpart (at least, on my laptop). It seems we have lost the ability to Export. Is this going to be fixed, or am I overlooking something? |
| #23twestermMar 22, 2011 15:10:36 | Hey all, Negative feedback is fine, it just needs to be constructive. People saying OMG new online builder sux! is a waste of time but saying that not being able to something as simple as exporting a monster to RTF is a big problem is worthwhile. There's no need to coddle them for a terrible product, because in it's current state it's a terrible product, we just need to stay at the very least polite and provide constructive criticism. |
| #24AlphastreamMar 22, 2011 15:19:44 | Whatami, that made me laugh. Thank you! Well said, Twesterm, I meant "constructive" over just negative. "I don't like this" and "this is bad" is purely negative and not particularly informative. Explaining what you do want is very necessary, especially in software/solution design. I do really encourage everyone to use Customer Service. Provide as much feedback as you can. Just know that purely negative non-constructive feedback will be of little value to any of us. Dunjinbastid, Export is gone. I don't know if it will come back. I suspect it may be viewed as an issue because of copyright/IP issues. I don't agree with that view point, and it strikes me as a case were the community should do its best to make sure it is added back in. At the very least, something to allow Export once you make a change, and tag it as changed, might be worth considering. |
| #25ZanizMar 22, 2011 15:37:12 | so how do we set up eks 20 monsters now for a D&D evening now i cant see the holding pen and i can only mark 1 monster and print that out so what is the ide about this new Monster builder insted of the hard cover paper books the old Monster builder you could set up the monsters on the holding pen and easy to change betwin the monster the party comes to so far it look like new monster builder is same as old just alot WORSE i hope this is some major buggs that is why we cant set up more monsters if not i will look wery hard in to maby cancell my DnD insider acount . i most say i feel like this wizards are steeling our money from us all when i sign up i wass told and could read you can use dnd insider 5 times per month like charecter builder and monster builder and in 2009 we were told and could see the new tools Virtual tabel. and we could download magazines and now we cant download the last 2 episode of the magazines . the charecter builder can only be use 1 per insider acount and now they say virtuel Tabel is on beta test so what have you been doing the last 2 years other then make a new charecter builder even we have one that wass working . i hope some from Wizards can anserv me on all this Frusrations i have over this D&D Insider tools |
| #26whtkntMar 22, 2011 15:51:19 | Right, let's not be negative but instead practice positive reinforcement. Good job, WotC, on taking something that worked well, moving to an online format which limits usability, and simultaneously reducing functionality. The Character Builder was a fine tool (when it finally debuted) but when it shifted venues, it lost some of the versatility that made it good. One big thing was that it can no longer be used as an "in-play" aid. Likewise, the Monster Builder was a great tool which I have put to good use, but now that it's online, all of that functionality has gone away. Now, I could say that patience brings results, but considering that the character visualizer was shown off at GenCon three years ago and still hasn't materialized... well, that speaks for itself. |
| #27AlphastreamMar 22, 2011 16:52:43 | so how do we set up eks 20 monsters now for a D&D evening now i cant see the holding pen and i can only mark 1 monster and print that out so what is the ide about this new Monster builder insted of the hard cover paper books the old Monster builder you could set up the monsters on the holding pen and easy to change betwin the monster the party comes to Should this be a question, the old MB did not really allow for much with the Holding Pen. I always wanted to see it serve as a real holding area that could then serve for encounter design. All it did was hold monsters and then you still had to go and print them from the main (left) side. The online MB really isn't different in those terms. As mentioned here, when it comes to printing the easiest method is similar in both. From the old CB, for each monster you can save as RTF or image and then paste into a Word document. From the new CB, screen print and paste and then the additional step to crop the image. For both I like to set Word to two-column layout and fit about 6 monsters to a page. I do require RTF for authoring for Ashes of Athas and similar work where quality matters and you may need to edit. This very sadly forces me to create the monster in the classic MB if it does not currently exist. For RTF my general technique is:
And, yeah, I absolutely want RTF back. And I do someday want the ability to go from a holding pen to an encounter builder. |
| #28ZanizMar 22, 2011 17:15:52 | you are thrue about the old holding pen . i also whis we could save out holding pens monsters so when i have 3 D&D campaign going i could just set it up on advance but so fare cant do must. and in new Monster builder it just look like a cheap copy of old one with less options i realy hope Wizards will start do some thing soon been in ths game for over 20 years now as gm |