I want to take a moment to say something positive about what’s going on with D&D. Because there are so many people that are assuming the worst it’s really starting to get to me.
First, I LOVE essentials. That said I do hope that the hardcover format isn’t lost forever – I like them too. I like the character builds (even if they are fairly option free for now) and I like the cleaning up of the rules that needed it. I really like the extra “fluff” we’re seeing as well. 4e can be a little crunchy and having a little more story really helps bring in new players and has revitalized my interest in the system.
I like the direction the new CB is going in. Todays release is not perfect by any means but it is the first time I’ve been able to use it with out booting into windows or running an emulator (yes I’m a Mac user). I’m excited to see where it goes and I can deal with the growing pains while it gets there.
I will say I don’t really like web based apps, but I do like having my characters stored on the server and having access to them pretty much anywhere. When the exporter is complete, we’ll have the best of both worlds. If there is a character limit, I would expect it to be lifted soon. There’s no real technical reason for it and I’m not going to assume the worst in this case since it’s so trivial to change at any time.
I have no intentions of canceling my DDI membership at any point in the foreseeable future. And I understand why WotC wants to keep subscription content to those paying for the subscription. Why anyone who steals software feels justified to complain about it going away is beyond me (I know it’s only a subset of the people complaining so I’m only referring to those people). Besides, even if there were no character builder I’d still subscribe to DDI. There is a huge amount of content in Dragon and Dungeon magazine. I don’t use it all or even read most of it, but I the stuff I do read and use is worth a few dollars a month by itself. Not everything has to be exactly fitted to my play style for me to be happy. There is a huge audience out there and not everything is going to appeal to everyone.
The point I want to get across is I don’t believe WotC is a big evil company that has nothing better to do then screw over their loyal customers. They are a company; so they need to make money to stay in business. But they are tying to do it by appealing to as many people as possible and sometimes that means making some changes. If you like the game and believe in where it’s going, then stick with it. If you don’t, then that’s fine too but I’d suggest a little patience before you “never by anything from WotC ever again.”
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
QFT. I couldn't have put it much better myself.
However, the bottom line of this whole thing is they've had two years of the benefit of my doubt, and that's run out.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
Quote for truth.
I mean, I'm not angry over the new CB, as, like the OP, I'm a Mac user, primarily, and being able to fiddle with characters while doing ANYTHING else is a nice change, and something we've technically asked for. Honestly, I think a large part of it is that the community has been getting increasingly annoyed with DDI since early September, so for the new online CB to come out, in this environment, with the missing features, bugs, etc, it's just throwing more fuel onto an already existing fire. I mean, look at my 'open letter to the DDI team' compared to the language in a lot of my more recent posts. I like to consider myself rather level headed, but even I'm starting to get a little snappy.
There are some key problems with an online-only tool that are going to require me to, one way or the other, change the way I DM and play DnD, which is irksome, but that's separate from all the feature concerns I have which I consider fully legitimate. I understand why they went online-only. Hell, they're actually painfully transparent in why they did it, as every other person on this forum immediately recognized it as a way to do something about the people who would buy a subscription for a month, get the materials they want, and not pay again until they'd get a year's worth of content for just 7 dollars, but it's a rather imperfect solution, all told.
Overall, I'm not mad about the CB, as, technically, I have asked for some of the things the new version brings to the table, heck, it even alleviated any fears I had about CB essentials content, but it removed some things I'd come to love about the old CB, so I'm certainly not forgiving them for past misjudgments. Especially since, if I'm going to keep DMing the way I have been, I'm going to have to find a new location, one with consistently available internet, enough space, and limited interruptions. So, basically, I'm going to have to get my own apartment, pay for an extra room and turn that into a gaming den, as every location that met the last 2 doesn't meet the first.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
This. I would like to give them my money. I like 4th edition a lot; I support their forays into e-D&D wholeheartedly even when I don't necessarily agree with the minutiae.
But the way they handle stuff just seems to make it consistently difficult for me to justify giving them my money. (Thus far I've continued to do so and haven't had a chance to try the new CB, but reports thus far are pretty disheartening.)
I want to take a moment to say something positive about what’s going on with D&D. Because there are so many people that are assuming the worst it’s really starting to get to me.
First, I LOVE essentials. That said I do hope that the hardcover format isn’t lost forever – I like them too. I like the character builds (even if they are fairly option free for now) and I like the cleaning up of the rules that needed it. I really like the extra “fluff” we’re seeing as well. 4e can be a little crunchy and having a little more story really helps bring in new players and has revitalized my interest in the system.
I like the direction the new CB is going in. Todays release is not perfect by any means but it is the first time I’ve been able to use it with out booting into windows or running an emulator (yes I’m a Mac user). I’m excited to see where it goes and I can deal with the growing pains while it gets there.
I will say I don’t really like web based apps, but I do like having my characters stored on the server and having access to them pretty much anywhere. When the exporter is complete, we’ll have the best of both worlds. If there is a character limit, I would expect it to be lifted soon. There’s no real technical reason for it and I’m not going to assume the worst in this case since it’s so trivial to change at any time.
I have no intentions of canceling my DDI membership at any point in the foreseeable future. And I understand why WotC wants to keep subscription content to those paying for the subscription. Why anyone who steals software feels justified to complain about it going away is beyond me (I know it’s only a subset of the people complaining so I’m only referring to those people). Besides, even if there were no character builder I’d still subscribe to DDI. There is a huge amount of content in Dragon and Dungeon magazine. I don’t use it all or even read most of it, but I the stuff I do read and use is worth a few dollars a month by itself. Not everything has to be exactly fitted to my play style for me to be happy. There is a huge audience out there and not everything is going to appeal to everyone.
The point I want to get across is I don’t believe WotC is a big evil company that has nothing better to do then screw over their loyal customers. They are a company; so they need to make money to stay in business. But they are tying to do it by appealing to as many people as possible and sometimes that means making some changes. If you like the game and believe in where it’s going, then stick with it. If you don’t, then that’s fine too but I’d suggest a little patience before you “never by anything from WotC ever again.”
So you like the new direction of removing functionality, but you don't like how they did it... I'm confused. Do you like it when things you pay for get worse and they tell you to just get used to it?
So you like the new direction of removing functionality, but you don't like how they did it... I'm confused. Do you like it when things you pay for get worse and they tell you to just get used to it?
No, see the removing functionality is part of the implementation, not the direction. There was nothing inherent in the changes to remove functionality (other than loss of offline use... but that's a different debate), but the execution of the plan definitely removed functionality.
Things getting worse (while being billed us major updates we should be excited about) is part of how they handled thing poorly. I'm certainly not happy about what WotC has been doing (see my signature if you don't believe me), but it has little to do with the direction.
The losses weren't enough for the OP to stop his subscription, that's his call. They were enough for me to turn off my auto-renew, but that's my choice too.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
In their defense they are handling it better than they have in the past. What they are trying NOT to do is make promises and then not be able to follow through with them (virtual table). So for a couple months we didn't get updates or any clear news on the CB. Being an encounters DM it was less than ideal because I was running Dark Sun and now Essentials. Somehow we managed though. But again, I don't think they were misleading us, they just weren't keeping us in the loop because, god forbid, they did and then weren't able to follow through on something.
No one is cancelling their subscription because they think/believe/know that Wizards is evil/greedy/stealing/unfair. They only say those things because they are angry. They are cancelling their subscription because it essentially doesn't allow them to do what it did before this update: make characters.
You can still create characters with a DDI subscription - in fact now you have to have one. But I will agree they have taken a step back in regards to bugs and features in their attempt to take 2 steps forward. I still believe they will get there though.
Again, I think in the end this is going to be very good. They are already talking about opening up the stored characters via an API (this month's podcast). If they do this, then I can imagine mobile clients to allow you to download your characters, play them at the table then upload the changes when you're back in internet range. You'd still need the computer to run silverlight (why-oh-why couldn't they have chosen html 5) but for playing and tracking you could use anything.
In the short term though - it does require a bit of a change at the table if you were using PC with character builder to track characters. I personally play at a no gaget table, so no loss for us. We just print the sheets each level (I then laminate them but I'm addicted to dry erase). All the sheets also make a cool scrap book of progress as you go up in levels.
And you like that direction? I wont be renewing mine. The direction they are going is screwing over paying customers to keep pirates from getting their builder... I am not in favor of screwing over the people who pay to keep those who wont anyway from stealing...
WOTC has been doing this for years bud. I remember some cool tools in college someone made, back in the days when you had to use a modem, to dial up and download things... it was a utility for characters and DM's. No competing product existed, T$R shut them down.
If WOTC wants to capture their old audience back they need to stop kicking them in the nuts, and pushing them back to MMO's. I would love to play D&D more, but the tools that do get made either get nerfed or shutdown. I don't have 10 hours to prep adventures like I did in the college days anymore. My time is more precious and must be used efficiently to enjoy the spare time I have. This new "direction" is a giant course change away from efficiency.
Um so the calculations on power cards is gone, I can have 20 characters, I have to have a connection, their servers have to be up, its slow, its buggy...
And you like that direction?
As a previous poster already mentioned (but worth saying again) that's NOT the direction. That's a side effect to taking the direction that will surely be fixed soon. WotC has said this in several mediums at this point.
I don't have 10 hours to prep adventures like I did in the college days anymore. My time is more precious and must be used efficiently to enjoy the spare time I have. This new "direction" is a giant course change away from efficiency.
I'm not sure how a new CB makes preping as a DM take longer... And if you're talking about the MB, well that's pure speculation. The MB is a much simpler piece of software and with the lessons learned from the CB launch I'm hoping a smoother launching one too. We'll see. I could be wrong. But for now I'll just have to boot to windows (the slowest and most inefficient OS on the planet - sorry for mini rant, really can't stand windows since xp) to create my monsters.
You can still create characters with a DDI subscription - in fact now you have to have one. But I will agree they have taken a step back in regards to bugs and features in their attempt to take 2 steps forward. I still believe they will get there though.
Again, I think in the end this is going to be very good. They are already talking about opening up the stored characters via an API (this month's podcast). If they do this, then I can imagine mobile clients to allow you to download your characters, play them at the table then upload the changes when you're back in internet range. You'd still need the computer to run silverlight (why-oh-why couldn't they have chosen html 5) but for playing and tracking you could use anything.
In the short term though - it does require a bit of a change at the table if you were using PC with character builder to track characters. I personally play at a no gaget table, so no loss for us. We just print the sheets each level (I then laminate them but I'm addicted to dry erase). All the sheets also make a cool scrap book of progress as you go up in levels.
100% agree.
Also, if you are using character builder to track characters at the table, and do not have internet access where you play, you can just export the sheet to pdf (which I assume the builder has functionality for?) or print it to a pdf with something like cutepdf.
100% agree.
Also, if you are using character builder to track characters at the table, and do not have internet access where you play, you can just export the sheet to pdf (which I assume the builder has functionality for?) or print it to a pdf with something like cutepdf.
It doesn't have an export to pdf option, but you could print the sheet (or print to pdf). I've heard reports of bugs with that though. Personally, I'd just use it to print the power cards and then fill in the rest of the sheet on somebody's fillable pdf (and not even the one I made, I'd rather do it on the original sheet, not the new one).
I'll just say this real quick. If monster builder goes online only as well, I am going to be upset. I mean, you can make all the arguments you want for 'just print out the sheets' but if I'm going to have to print out every monster I intend to use over the course of a session, every session, I might as well just bring the damned books.
Well the current MB won't stop working (any more than it already has)... so I guess you could always just build whichever monsters you wanted in it? Which of course still leaves you not needing a DDI subscription.
I want to take a moment to say something positive about what’s going on with D&D. Because there are so many people that are assuming the worst it’s really starting to get to me.
First, I LOVE essentials. That said I do hope that the hardcover format isn’t lost forever – I like them too. I like the character builds (even if they are fairly option free for now) and I like the cleaning up of the rules that needed it. I really like the extra “fluff” we’re seeing as well. 4e can be a little crunchy and having a little more story really helps bring in new players and has revitalized my interest in the system.
I like the direction the new CB is going in. Todays release is not perfect by any means but it is the first time I’ve been able to use it with out booting into windows or running an emulator (yes I’m a Mac user). I’m excited to see where it goes and I can deal with the growing pains while it gets there.
I will say I don’t really like web based apps, but I do like having my characters stored on the server and having access to them pretty much anywhere. When the exporter is complete, we’ll have the best of both worlds. If there is a character limit, I would expect it to be lifted soon. There’s no real technical reason for it and I’m not going to assume the worst in this case since it’s so trivial to change at any time.
I have no intentions of canceling my DDI membership at any point in the foreseeable future. And I understand why WotC wants to keep subscription content to those paying for the subscription. Why anyone who steals software feels justified to complain about it going away is beyond me (I know it’s only a subset of the people complaining so I’m only referring to those people). Besides, even if there were no character builder I’d still subscribe to DDI. There is a huge amount of content in Dragon and Dungeon magazine. I don’t use it all or even read most of it, but I the stuff I do read and use is worth a few dollars a month by itself. Not everything has to be exactly fitted to my play style for me to be happy. There is a huge audience out there and not everything is going to appeal to everyone.
The point I want to get across is I don’t believe WotC is a big evil company that has nothing better to do then screw over their loyal customers. They are a company; so they need to make money to stay in business. But they are tying to do it by appealing to as many people as possible and sometimes that means making some changes. If you like the game and believe in where it’s going, then stick with it. If you don’t, then that’s fine too but I’d suggest a little patience before you “never by anything from WotC ever again.”
I agree with most of this.
As for the loss of functionality, I haven't seen anything that really affects me. All my characters are LFR legal, which more than likely has something to do with it. However the ability to make/update characters on my home or work PC then just grab Macbook and head to the shop to play is a lot better for me. Yes, the shop I play at has free wifi. I'll probably print my characters to PDF and play that way anyhow. No more emailing dnd4e files or thumb drives is a big plus for me.
Monster builder is also key, I use that to make encounters cake to setup. I can then spend that time designing story and such. Monster builder with master plan is awesome.
Now I have no desire to buy any product NOT supported in the old monster builder or character builder, because I can't use that in those, to export to tools I can use to make my game run better.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
Well said. Aye, I agree that the direction is good. I have no idea if the vision is because, well, they haven't truly shared it with us. I just think that the talent pool used to provide us with DDI is not up to the task.
The CB tool is a disappointment. It's nice. It's adequate. It's a novelty. It should be better. Way better.
When I go to Wizards, I am supposed to be going to the source of all things D&D. I expect to be presented with the best utilities (and not only because it's the only official source); I expect to be wowed. The CB simply falls short. When I open a D&D source book, I am typically presented with excellent quality; a great value for my dollar. When I click on a D&D link, I expect that same quality. It's just not there.
The CB gets a C from me. I expected an A. This community deserved an A.
This is no offense to the dev team. Truly talented coders are hard to find. There is just an incredibly huge difference between talented and average.
Again, I think in the end this is going to be very good. They are already talking about opening up the stored characters via an API (this month's podcast). If they do this, then I can imagine mobile clients to allow you to download your characters, play them at the table then upload the changes when you're back in internet range. You'd still need the computer to run silverlight (why-oh-why couldn't they have chosen html 5) but for playing and tracking you could use anything.
I don't want to sound all attacky, but let me say this:
After being let down by a few start-up MMO games, I've made it a rule never to pay good money for "in the end" or "they are talking about" or "if they do this."
I pay for a product as it exists in its current state because that is how I use a product -- in its current state. The current state of this product -- even if it were largely bug-free -- is not a product I will enjoy using. I think the basic design philosophy of the thing is just plain awful.
In the short term though - it does require a bit of a change at the table if you were using PC with character builder to track characters. I personally play at a no gaget table, so no loss for us. We just print the sheets each level (I then laminate them but I'm addicted to dry erase). All the sheets also make a cool scrap book of progress as you go up in levels.
You do realize that this is very, very close to the play style of someone who does not use the CB at all, right?
In fact, WoTC really shot themselves in the foot by delaying the final online CB update as long as they did. It forced me to handwrite my characters for a while, and I realized it's not that big a deal. DDI has made us lazy about adding a few numbers together; if this game were so complex that you actually NEEDED a computer to keep track of your character for you, I don't think I'd be playing it at all.
So I'm going back to the old ways: pencil, paper, dice, and books. I don't think WotC is evil. I don't even think they are all idiots. I think the designers are pretty good for the most part. However, they should probably fire the entire online department and invest in more/better editors. THAT would make me very happy indeed.
I'm quitting DDI, but I'll keep buying books. Seems like 80% of DDI was about previewing and hyping the books anyway. I won't miss it.
Add to that my boredom with Dragon, though Dungeon has always been good to me, because there wasn't enough material to actually read (note: staring at mechanics =! reading), and yeah... I completely love the new direction.
Also, my players seem to be loving it as well, so quintuple the love.
Still, I do have one major problem. The whole "Store your characters on the server" thing. O_o; Er, why? Why can't I save it to an external source, like my gigantic harddrive or even a thumbdrive? I mean, I make a lot of characters just to see what that class/build is like.
Still, I do have one major problem. The whole "Store your characters on the server" thing. O_o; Er, why? Why can't I save it to an external source, like my gigantic harddrive or even a thumbdrive? I mean, I make a lot of characters just to see what that class/build is like.
Didn't you hear? Cloud storage is one of the major selling points of the new character builder! They even let you save a whole 20 characters! Isn't that great! [/sarcasm]
I'm going to be a naysayer and prepose this: What direction?
The disorganization over implementation is not one characteristic to a well-thought and well-planned ideal. It seems and feels hasty. While I'm certain that they were likely planning it for a long time, it just feels.. half-done. Should they continue in the direction they have been going (removing features and content, making the tools harder to use overall), then we will end up back at Master Tools or worse (I actually think we are worse than Master Tools at the moment).
This seems haphazard and sudden, which is why everyone is up in arms. If the choices made by Wizards of what to come is any consideration of what to expect Wizards to do in the future, then I'm afraid that they will run themselves into the ground.
What they -need- is direction, a clear-cut, well-designed goal and plan towards creating, maintaining and properly testing content and new content. It needs to be focused on providing with increasing value for money. It needs to be focused on restoring what was removed, as well as providing more service than was previously available, not what would be available innately through the online medium, but what the program itself can actually -do-.
The direction, as far as I can see it, is about providing less functionality under the guise of flexibility. It's about implementing control over conscience. The company, thusfar, has provided poor quality control, poor customer service, and poor design.
Lastly, I wish to address the positive elements. Should this had been the original Character Builder, perhaps I would have been able to support it fully. Considering the first month of that builder, as well as DDI, was provided free for people to try their product, and worked on the bugs, then.. okay. I can accept this. I actually don't mind the online functionality so much. I like the layout of the builder itself. It does look cleaner, overall. Now if they could only make the rest of it match.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
This. Thanks for saying it before I could.
I like the direction of the DDI tools in theory. I'm not so happy with the execution.
I don't think WotC is a "big evil company" or that it's trying to make us mad. That being said, they certainly have handeled any number of things in ways ranging from "poorly" to "the worst possibly way they could have."
This. Thanks for saying it before I could.
enjoy that $10, guys.
it's the last you'll get from me until you release a character builder that doesn't require a subscription fee.