I just got an em,ail that says for Nov, Dec, Jan, they are going to be doing the Updates on the 3rd Tuesday of the month.
So if I have my math right, at one time when they put stuff in March's Dragon, it showed up the last Tuesday of March.
Then they changed it so that if they put something in July, it shows up the first week of August.
Now, if something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th?
Is this correct?
I just got an em,ail that says for Nov, Dec, Jan, they are going to be doing the Updates on the 3rd Tuesday of the month.
So if I have my math right, at one time when they put stuff in March's Dragon, it showed up the last Tuesday of March.
Then they changed it so that if they put something in July, it shows up the first week of August.
Now, if something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th?
Is this correct?
I don't think so. I think it's worse than that.
It used to be that something published March 1st would be compiled around April 30th. The March update includes March books, and Feburary Dragon. The April update includes April books and March Dragon.
Then they pushed it back so that something published July 1st would show up September 8th or so. The July Dragon content is included as part of the August update, which happens in early Sepember.
Now something published October 1st won't be in the builder until December 17th or so. The October Dragon content will be included as part of the November update, which happens in Mid December.
The email claims they will return to the earlier (January update happens in early Feburary) schedule after the holidays, but my experience with slips tells me... not unless they just skip a month.
I think it's worse than that.
Not disagreeing with the explanation you give. Only the assessment that it is "worse" -- or any other adjective of severity.
The only thing this affects is access to content in the character builder and monster builder. Which only affects a few of us, relatively speaking. Of the millions that play D&D around the world, a very small percentage of us use the website, and an even smaller subset of that are subscribers.
It is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
I think it's worse than that.
Not disagreeing with the explanation you give. Only the assessment that it is "worse" -- or any other adjective of severity....
It is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
Actually, I strongly disagree with you here. This is coming right around the one-year mark of paid subscriptions. I'm unaffected, since I will be re-subscribing for another year, but if you are a person who subscribed for one year on the 10th of November, December or January of 2008 (or 2009 for January) and are not resubscribing, then you will not be getting the character builder update for two months for which you have the magazine. I actually don't doubt that WotC will try to work out something with those border cases, but it seems like a waste of a lot of people's time to do that. I guess time will tell, but I think it is valid to see this as "bad" for now.
I think it's worse than that.
Not disagreeing with the explanation you give. Only the assessment that it is "worse" -- or any other adjective of severity.The only thing this affects is access to content in the character builder and monster builder. Which only affects a few of us, relatively speaking. Of the millions that play D&D around the world, a very small percentage of us use the website, and an even smaller subset of that are subscribers.
It is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
It is by definition bad.
Previously, I was getting my updates on date X. I am now getting updates on date Y, which is after date X. Unless something qualitative (more editing) or quantitative (content I would not have gotten on date X) happens as a result of this, then it is, technically speaking, strictly worse. There is no benefit to me as the consumer to waiting the extra time*. I complained about this the last time they shifted the dates (from last Tuesday to first Tuesday).
*unless WotC cares to explain how them taking 2 extra weeks will make everything better. And they'd have to work pretty hard to convince me.
I think it's worse than that.
Not disagreeing with the explanation you give. Only the assessment that it is "worse" -- or any other adjective of severity.The only thing this affects is access to content in the character builder and monster builder. Which only affects a few of us, relatively speaking. Of the millions that play D&D around the world, a very small percentage of us use the website, and an even smaller subset of that are subscribers.
It is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
That's a terrible viewpoint. Regardless of how many of us (which I recall being around 20,000+ these days), the subscribers are going to be receiving an inferior service to what they received before. That is absolutely a legitimate reason to describe this as "worse" than what came before. That doesn't mean it might not be reasonable or justified, but there is absolutely no way your statement holds. Yes, it only affects subscribers. It affects them negatively. There should be no confusion about that.
I have absolutely been a supporter of DDI and everything related to it from the very beginning - but I am also very disappointed by this, just as I was disappointed when the content dates were previously moved back. I'm not going to cancel my service over it by any means, but as was pointed out above - October content not being as usable until mid-December is a pretty raw deal for subscribers.
At this rate we'll have to wait for D&D annual to be released before getting content from the start of the year in the character builder before too long.
I'm kidding, but the trend is worrying- one week becomes two, becomes four- you're taking nearly two months to get a given item in the character builder. Will that time go down? I used to think so. But lately, all I see is it going up and up.
By no means am I going to cancel my subscription- I have a good eight months left on it, but between the decreasing print-quality of articles and all the delays in getting content into the hands of the subscribers, I have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes.
There may come a time- perhaps very soon- that WotC will have to gear article creation to hit the character builder first, and write the articles second. In fact, come to think of it, that might help solve a lot of the problems, if the current model has them releasing an article, doing revisions for the compilation, and then spending a month adding it to the character builder.
If material can be made 'Character Builder Ready', then it should be a relatively simple matter to implement any minor changes, as often seen between the individual article release, and the compilation release. But of course, I don't know the entire situation.
What I do know is that something needs to be done about this.
Not disagreeing with the explanation you give. Only the assessment that it is "worse" -- or any other adjective of severity.The only thing this affects is access to content in the character builder and monster builder. Which only affects a few of us, relatively speaking. Of the millions that play D&D around the world, a very small percentage of us use the website, and an even smaller subset of that are subscribers.
It is neither good nor bad. It simply is.
So an delay in a service I pay for isn't bad, because it only affects those that pay for the service? Do I have that right?
lets aay they relase a new article Nov 1st...It is playing Kobolds (This is just a made up example don't get your hopes up, but I wish too) and in it it gives 5-6 feats a new paragon path, and the race write up... it will be in the CB when? Not Nov update (never was), Not the Dec update, but the Jan one...so Jan 19th...
why...what could possilbe cause it to take 2 and 1/2 months to complie into the database???
lets aay they relase a new article Nov 1st...It is playing Kobolds (This is just a made up example don't get your hopes up, but I wish too) and in it it gives 5-6 feats a new paragon path, and the race write up... it will be in the CB when? Not Nov update (never was), Not the Dec update, but the Jan one...so Jan 19th...
why...what could possilbe cause it to take 2 and 1/2 months to complie into the database???
by the way I have figured out what answer I will except...and it has to be this good or better not worse...
"Well we are about to finisht he beta and go full relase on the Monster builder witch is alot of last min work, on top of that we already know the next adventure tool is X and want to get a head start so we can relase the Beta of it early next year (read march or sooner) and this new schedual will allow this to happen"
If there is not some major announcment like that (not even that exactly but like it) I am going to be PISSED OFF
I just got an em,ail that says for Nov, Dec, Jan, they are going to be doing the Updates on the 3rd Tuesday of the month.
So if I have my math right, at one time when they put stuff in March's Dragon, it showed up the last Tuesday of March.
Then they changed it so that if they put something in July, it shows up the first week of August.
Now, if something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th?
Is this correct?
Keep in mind that this is only happeneing for those three months. Come February, according to Trevor's post in DDI General, they will be moving back to the 1st Tuesday of the month.
Well, GM4PG (if I may call you that 
), it's like this:
1. The article isn't available even a second before it's released, because they're frantically trying to get it finalized and maybe proofreading it. If there's 30 seconds left over, they playtest it.
2. #1 doesn't even matter, because so as to not duplicate work efforts, they wait until the compiled issue is out so that in case the unthinkable happens and they have to issue errata for it, they at least can say they weren't duplicating their effort. So that means that work could begin on Monday, Nov 30, which is when the compiled issue should come out.
3. All WotC employees get to take 2 weeks off for Christmas / New Year's, just like being in elementary school again. This effectively gives them 3 weeks to implement and test (and here I actually do believe they test, since in general, the CB works) before vacation comes around. [In serious fairness, it really could take 3 weeks to do an adequate amount of testing, depending on how the framework is setup for data entry and what kind of manpower you can devote to testing, and how robust your testing is going to be.]
4. When they get back to work on Jan 4, everyone's too busy talking about how their holidays were and what cool gifts they got, than no real work gets done that day. Sometime around noon on the 5th everyone realizes that they have deadlines to meet and hey, shouldn't we be working on something? At this point, they still have 2 weeks, so it's all good.
Keep in mind that this is only happeneing for those three months. Come February, according to Trevor's post in DDI General, they will be moving back to the 1st Tuesday of the month.
I agree that's what the letter claimed. I just expect, through much life experience, that it won't happen like that.
After the holidays, they will take to do the same months worth of work, but will only have half the usual time to do it in. Given that the creep of release dates indicates they are already pushing the boundaries of what they can do... I don't see them catching up.
I predict a dropped month. And honestly, I think I'd prefer that to a perputual delay. Just don't do the December update. Use the freed-up time to get back to releasing Now, many would want a refund for that missing month, so maybe the indefinite delay is in your best interest... but I'm not sure.
Is this negative? Yes. It is simply and patently waiting longer for the same product.
Is this upsetting? Yes. Primal power not being in until late November is not positive. A dragon article that released on Sept 3rd not going in until Nov 20th is almost beyond comprehension.
Will many people unsub from this? Of course not, its just inconvenient and a bad deal to hand to your customer base around christmas time. You know, that time when people are thinking of spending money on gifts. Creating a negative attitude among your client base at this time of year would generally be considered a bad thing.
Can we the user's be understanding, certainly. But I imagine I am not alone in wanting A) A little more explanation than was proffered and B) a plan to get make sure this doesn't happen again and perhaps even speed up the schedule a little bit. We don't need an immeidately solution, just an ackknowledgement of the problem and a will to clean it up in the future.
To those who don't trust that WotC will do as they said they will do:
I prefer to not anticipate disappointment in my life. Enough of it comes along on its own. Why would I want to spend extra energy being pre-disappointed?
To those who view this as bad:
I have a mortgage, a slumping economy, car repairs, and flu season to fill my "this is not good" plate. WotC will take two extra weeks (for the next three months) to transfer to the Character Builder information that I already have from the articles posted every two or three days. I don't have the energy or incentive to be worried about that. I survived 30 years of D&D without any character builder. I can survive two extra weeks each month on the "updated a month ago" character builder until February.
Yeah, okay, it's not as bad or nearly as important as some of the other bad things out there, but that doesn't meane it can't be some level of bad or frustrating or annoying to somebody.
but that doesn't meane it can't be some level of bad or frustrating or annoying to somebody.
True. When the level of expression of that frustration matches the level of frustration, I don't tend to comment. (These fora are notorious for hyperbole in both praise and outrage.)
To those who view this as bad:I have a mortgage, a slumping economy, car repairs, and flu season to fill my "this is not good" plate. WotC will take two extra weeks (for the next three months) to transfer to the Character Builder information that I already have from the articles posted every two or three days. I don't have the energy or incentive to be worried about that. I survived 30 years of D&D without any character builder. I can survive two extra weeks each month on the "updated a month ago" character builder until February.
Come on, now. Of course this isn't as bad as any number of other problems going on in the world, or even that people have to deal with in everyday life. That doesn't in any way mean that this isn't a reduction in the service being offered, and one that people have a legitimate right to be disappointed by.
I'm not saying you personally need to be upset about it - but your earlier post disagreed that people even had the right to call this a "worse" situation than the previous one. How is that not a 'reasonable' level of frustration? By any objective standard, it is a worse situation - that doesn't mean people are going to start boycotting over it. Objecting to the use of a term that legitimately portrays the situation - and then trying to dismiss the complaints by comparing this to entirely unrelated issues in the world - is exactly the sort of 'forum hyperbole' you seem to be objecting to.
one that people have a legitimate right to be disappointed by.
Disappointed? Fine. But the posts in this thread are expressing a level of disappointment much greater than the discomfort or disservice being identified.
your earlier post disagreed that people even had the right to call this a "worse" situation than the previous one.
No it didn't. It disagreed that the situation is "worse" than what the OP described.
By any objective standard, it is a worse situation
Worse than what?
The OP wrote: Now, if something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th? (a true statement)
kilpatds responded I think it's worse than that. My reply what that it is not worse than that. It simply is "that". If something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th. No worse. No better. Simply that.
one that people have a legitimate right to be disappointed by.
Disappointed? Fine. But the posts in this thread are expressing a level of disappointment much greater than the discomfort or disservice being identified.
Really? The first post is trying to figure out when the content will show up in the Character Builder. The second post explains when it will be showing up, which is later than even the original poster feared. At which point you step in and object to him calling it worse - at the time, with your reasoning being that it only affects DDI subscribers.
In response to your dismissal of the situation - as well as your statement that DDI subscribers are apparently a small enough group that you don't feel they deserve the right to complain about changes to their service - posters began disagreeing with you. And expressing their concern over the situation and the fact that this is now a trend of having these update times pushed back. I don't necessarily agree with the fears that this slide might be permanent, but I do acknowledge them as an understandable fear to have in light of the situation.
We have Kerrus step in and make an absurd claim that the content will soon take over a year to enter the Character Builder - this looks like exactly the hyperbole you were talking about! Except... he was joking. And, like the previous four posters who explained why your statements were wrong, he went on to express his point in a calm and rational fashion.
Seriously, I've seen threads that match the exaggeration you are talking about, and this isn't one of them. What post do you feel has overstated the situation or been out of line? The only real offender I've seen has been your own posts - the implication that there aren't many DDI subscribers, so their opinions don't matter; or that there are bigger problems in the world, so no one should care about something on this scale; or justifying your behavior in this thread by claiming that 'everyone else is being irrational', thus forcing you to comment. None of those have any truth to them, and I think any exaggerated frustration that does exist in this thread has only come about in response to your own posts and attempt to dismiss the legitimate concerns of paying customers.
I am very much in support of WotC on a lot of their products. I tend to be similarly frustrated by overexaggerated complaints in response to trivial things, especially to things people have no actual entitlement too. But this is a direct change to a service that customers have already paid for - if anything deserves comment, this is it! And I haven't seen any responses thus far that imply the sky is going to fall because of this or that subscribers should go on a rampage in response - only a lot of disappointment and frustration over the change, and fear that it will become a permanent one. What is unjustified about that?
kilpatds responded I think it's worse than that. My reply what that it is not worse than that. It simply is "that". If something was online October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until November 17th. No worse. No better. Simply that.
I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong on this point. As kilpatds points out, if a Dragon article is posted on October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until December 15th. Yes, that is directly worse than the original poster though, where it wouldn't be in the CB until November 17th. And it is similarly worse than right now, where it would be in the Character Builder on December 1st. The term "worse" is absolutely legitimate here by any possible interpretation of the situation.
As kilpatds points out, if a Dragon article is posted on October 1st, it won't be in the Character Builder until December 15th. Yes, that is directly worse than the original poster though, where it wouldn't be in the CB until November 17th. And it is similarly worse than right now, where it would be in the Character Builder on December 1st. The term "worse" is absolutely legitimate here by any possible interpretation of the situation.
That is, in fact, exactly what I meant by "worse". Thanks.
By any objective standard, it is a worse situation - that doesn't mean people are going to start boycotting over it. Objecting to the use of a term that legitimately portrays the situation - and then trying to dismiss the complaints by comparing this to entirely unrelated issues in the world - is exactly the sort of 'forum hyperbole' you seem to be objecting to.
Just out of curiousity, when WotC returns to the original dates for the updates, then should I expect to see people applauding for the upgrade in service?
@MB
No, because it's not an upgrade. It's just returning to the bare minimum of what they should have been doing. Putting in a temporary 2-week delay and then taking it out is not an upgrade in service.
Now, if they ever get the (e.g.) October Dragon in the 1st Tuesday of November update, THEN I will applaud them for the upgrade in service.
@MB
No, because it's not an upgrade. It's just returning to the bare minimum of what they should have been doing.
Now, if they ever get the (e.g.) October Dragon in the 1st Tuesday of November update, THEN I will applaud them for the upgrade in service.
If they get the October content into the November 17th update then I think this would be a worth a congratulatory comment. Still annoying for people who want the Primal Power, having to wait two more weeks, but much better for the Dragon content.
Just out of curiousity, when WotC returns to the original dates for the updates, then should I expect to see people applauding for the upgrade in service?
When I thought up this post and wrote it, it read (in my head) as humoristic, with only a touch of sarcasm and dark humor. However, a poster I respect pointed out that the message that it (my post) was sending was not that at all.
The intent of my post was never to attempt to shut down discussion, nor was it intended to diminish or dismiss the feelings of those who are not happy with the pushing back of the dates.
I apologize for the poor wording of my post which may have led people to believe that was the case. I will endeavor, in the future, to try to avoid using sarcasm in situations like this where confusion might arise as a result of my post.
An interesting discussion that I had ignored the last few days (weeks?).
As best I can tell right now WotC will do the least posible, because of reduced resources.
Not the best business model in eyes of some, however in the end if D&D and/or WotC is to survive it needs to be at least cost even.
Just out of curiousity, when WotC returns to the original dates for the updates, then should I expect to see people applauding for the upgrade in service?When I thought up this post and wrote it, it read (in my head) as humoristic, with only a touch of sarcasm and dark humor. However, a poster I respect pointed out that the message that it (my post) was sending was not that at all.
The intent of my post was never to attempt to shut down discussion, nor was it intended to diminish or dismiss the feelings of those who are not happy with the pushing back of the dates.
I apologize for the poor wording of my post which may have led people to believe that was the case. I will endeavor, in the future, to try to avoid using sarcasm in situations like this where confusion might arise as a result of my post.
Maybe you can get them to add [sarcasm] tags to the forums, just make it clear that we want s-blocks back first.