Glossary!
-Red-
That's gonna be GREAT for people who want alternate formatting of power cards.
I know of at LEAST one person in my RPGA group who's been dying for Power Cards in the "Anders" format.
The doubling power cards is especially troubling, and it'd be nice if there was any hint of it being corrected any time soon; there are a few other proven bugs still mentioned in my sig if I'm not mistaken. I'd be thrilled to be able to count them resolved henceforth.
Thoughts?
So, when I launch the character builder it tells me that there are no updates...
Thoughts?
The update wont come out until next tuesday the 28th. ;)
Even though there are still some bugs, I continue to be impressed. The third-party friendly XML output is pretty exciting.
Well, I used to be pretty dubious that Wizards would succeed in creating a tool that was everything it promised to be. I have changed my mind. To me it's no longer a question of whether char builder will be good instead, I wonder just how good it might get...
Even though there are still some bugs, I continue to be impressed. The third-party friendly XML output is pretty exciting.
It's SO true... I am totally pumped for all the goodies they will come out with still!!!
I can't wait till we're two or three years into the edition, I think a lot of cool things should be in store for us by that time....
Wooott!!
It would be greatly appreciated if you could give us an annotated XML-schema definition and/or some description as well for the xml-export feature. I do not know what you have planned for that, but rengineering from a file seems contrary to the idea of an open format for modders.
thanks!
ps: i still dislike the way the CB handles a lot of things, but given the pure amount of data wotc supplies, within the next year, it will be the only proper tool out there to build dnd4 characters.
pps: a mono port would be highly appreciated, as i still dislike using windows on any of my machines. (that's why, if i use it, i use the cb on my dms machine.)
Also the "Import Character Summary" feature is awesome, very happy to see that as I need to share characters a lot, and not having to send the whole character file will be much better.
Sioban
A happy DM :D
It would be greatly appreciated if you could give us an annotated XML-schema definition and/or some description as well for the xml-export feature. I do not know what you have planned for that, but rengineering from a file seems contrary to the idea of an open format for modders.
I will include this in my weekly report.
pps: a mono port would be highly appreciated, as i still dislike using windows on any of my machines. (that's why, if i use it, i use the cb on my dms machine.)
I will put this in as well, although, given the post from an ex-dev (that I will post below) I am not sure if it will happen anytime soon.
I would have love to have done a mac version. I have a mac. I also have an iphone.
When I originally joined the project though I was given a 6 month time frame to full release, 3 months to beta, and by the way, that includes the time I could spend hiring a staff. Staff was, fortunately, hired in short order, and I was lucky to get some great people on the team. With the short schedule though we were making decisions between releasing it as a web app, or perhaps winforms. We mocked up a web app and it wasn't responsive enough, we mocked up a winforms prototype, and it was slow and lacked the ability to do all the things we wanted to do so we ported to WPF which set us back a week but was so worth it. We were able to do more things, have better control of the UI and development time was very fast.
Given the short schedule that we had it wouldn't have been reasonable to make a multi-platform version. Once we were done with the initial build I did cost out what it would take to make a mac version, as I think it is short sighted not to make one. The problem being that Wizards just doesn't have enough mac customers yet. They would need something like 10 times as many in order for it to break even, and that's not counting the fact that the majority of mac users can run windows apps in some sort of vm setup.
It's also entirely possible that by the time there are enough mac customers there will also be either native osx support for wpf, or some sort of rapid development tool for mac/iphone that could be trivially ported too. It's also possible that with the coming release of windows7 that XP will drop in price so much that it doesn't make sense not to have a copy running in a vm with your mac.
pps: a mono port would be highly appreciated, as i still dislike using windows on any of my machines. (that's why, if i use it, i use the cb on my dms machine.)
Because the Character Builder uses WPF, creating a mono version that could run on a Mac of Linux box would be prohibitively time consuming. Mono does not support WPF, and there are no plans at this point for that to change.
To make the Character Builder work on Mono, they'd have to completely rewrite the user interface. Once they got over that large hurtle, there would likely be other barriers. I don't work at WotC, and don't have insider knowledge of how the software is written, but based on my experience as a .NET developer and one who has used Mono, it seems VERY doubtful that a cross-platform version would be feasible without delaying the release of new tools by many months. This is not to mention that it would be a bit of a reversal in their development path. If they were going to make the Character Builder cross-platform in the forseable future, they would have been better off choosing a different UI library. When they chose WPF, they chose richer UI and faster development cycle over cross-platform.
ps - I think it's great that they're making the XML output more third-party friendly!
Mono does not support WPF, and there are no plans at this point for that to change.
There is in fact development under way on a Mono implementation of WPF, but it's going slowly and not a priority.
Regardless of that, nimrand is essentially correct. It's not currently technically feasible to run CB on Linux or Mac natively. WINE is currently trying to get .NET working, but it will be a long wait.
I also have an iphone..
Even if there isn't a full builder some sort of iPhone friendly app that reads character files and produces them in an iPhone friendly way would seem to be worthwhile.
Though I don't have an iPhone (atm), the iPhone is likely to be worthwhile to support (I know there are far more iPhones and iPods among the student population at work than traditional PDAs). It might not be a huge market, but its definately a growing market.
Even if there isn't a full builder some sort of iPhone friendly app that reads character files and produces them in an iPhone friendly way would seem to be worthwhile.
maybe someone will take the xml files and do something for the iphone...
---
additional question to the wotc suits:
if someone were to do this, and offer it over the iphone-app-store - what would be required to do this legally?
i don't see any mention of a license to actually use those xml files. should be done as well, because usually people don't like to use stuff when they cannot be sure whether they'll be sued over it or not if they publish something using it.
@bunny: please add the license issue to your list.
as for wpf: yeah, it's a pity that they can't do windows apps like everyone was doing them for long years past... but well, that's that. not every company is equally able.
maybe someone will take the xml files and do something for the iphone...
I'd imagine we'll start seeing a lot of 3rd party applications once they update the XML files. I started on a FGII character sheet converter a few weeks ago that's already partially functional. The updates to the XML will make that converter much more complete and robust.
I'd imagine we'll start seeing a lot of 3rd party applications once they update the XML files. I started on a FGII character sheet converter a few weeks ago that's already partially functional. The updates to the XML will make that converter much more complete and robust.
yeah, well, that's all nice and that - but unless they release some kind of license for the format, you're in an all grey area. they could sue you even though they told you it's a community format, if you provide this tool to someone else than your friends.
that's why i am asking for a license on what you are allowed to do and what you aren't allowed to do with those files.
When WOTC provides the information in the XML format, they have no expectations as to how that information is formatted.
That's the reason for exporting character information in that format and I for one can't wait to see what the XML gurus come up with for fabulous sheets!
yeah, well, that's all nice and that - but unless they release some kind of license for the format, you're in an all grey area. they could sue you even though they told you it's a community format, if you provide this tool to someone else than your friends.
that's why i am asking for a license on what you are allowed to do and what you aren't allowed to do with those files.
Not really. File formats are not generally protectable under IP law. In most cases, one can develop software to read and write data from or into whatever format you like, even if that format was originally used in another application. In fact, its common for companies to write software that can read the file formats of competing products without the permission of the company that developed those products.
However, there are some issues that can arise. For instance, it is illegal to bypass encryption built into a file format, such as the data on a movie DVD. But, that's not because the file format is protected. If the data is written in unicode encoded XML, there is clearly no such mechanisms that must be bypassed.
Another problem would be if the production or interpretation of the file format involved novel algorithms that were protected by a patent, such as what happened with the GIF file format because it used a compression algorithm protected by a patent. Again, this would not be applicable to a simple XML file format.
I think the major cause of concern in writing an application to read these files is not that you read the file format, but is done with the information in the file, some of which is protected by copyright. For instance, if your application uploads it as an HTML character sheet with power descriptions on a web page that anyone can view, then you might have a problem.
That all said, I'm not a lawyer and none of this should be construed as legal advice. If you are writing such an application and have concerns about Intellectual Property law violations, talk to a lawyer.
the xml format is open, sure. however, the content that is exported, is not. according to their ToS/EULA/Copyright, you are pretty much restricted on what you may or may not do with original content. this is not like reading any word-document from another app to compete with that product - it's more like getting a word document, which contains a lot of copyrighted material.
unless there's explicit permission, you may not distribute (send those files to a friend), duplicate (transfer it into another application), or modify (skip useless sections from xml for a character viewer) that data.
so: a pretty simple app like their own character sheet viewer would already violate several restrictions. (probably) the format is not why i'm asking for some kind of license - the content within is the reason.
duplicate (transfer it into another application), or modify (skip useless sections from xml for a character viewer) that data.
Distribution is one thing, but your definition of duplication/modification as it applies to digital content is wrong. Simply reading a file into memory is not considered "duplication" under copyright law, nor is skipping sections of the file considered "modification." It's no different than if I used a PDF viewer to read a PDF document containing copyrighten material. Opening the document doesn't violate copyright.
Ultimately, the issue you're raising really has nothing to do with writing software with the capability of reading the file format. Writing that software, by itself, does not violate any copyright. What's at issue is what the program can do with the copyrighten material, or, more generally, what player's are allowed to do with the copyrighten rules of the game, particularly descriptions of feats, powers, equipment, and similar rules that are included as a part of a character.
Obviously, players must be afforded some flexibility in order to be able to play the game. Online, player often manually construct character sheets in MapTools or FG II that almost always include the power descriptions along with automated attack and die rolls. This could be construed as copyright infringement, but its necessary in order to play the game online. It isn't much different offline, either. Players routinely print off power cards or sheets containing power descriptions, and they will even share these with other players during the game.
Releasing a license that for the XML file format doesn't make sense, as it wouldn't change anything. Reading the XML files doesn't let a player do anything they couldn't do before, nor does just allowing one to read the file format change what the players are and aren't allowed to do with the copywrighten material. From a copyright standpoint, if a player does something with copyrighten material from the game rules, it is immaterial whether or not the player used a program that reads CB XML to do it. If anything, the license would be to clarify what players are and are not allowed to do with the rules material, particularly as it pertains to creating and sharing digital and physical character sheets that include copywrighten rules.
whitebaron you are forgetting "fair use"
WotC opened it to us to use.
It is "fair use" to make an app that reformats that information for your personal use. It is ok to distribute that app as well, as long as it doesn't distribute anything that belongs expressly to WotC.
It is not "fair use" to make an app that uploads the whole character sheet to a remote public site and makes it readable by anyone if it contains all the rules mechanics.
nimrand - I'm a long way from an expert on the finer points of copyright law, but I'm pretty certain that loading, without the owner's consent (explicit or implicit), anything into the memory of your computer constitutes making a copy and is a copyright violation.
nimrand - I'm a long way from an expert on the finer points of copyright law, but I'm pretty certain that loading, without the owner's consent (explicit or implicit), anything into the memory of your computer constitutes making a copy and is a copyright violation.
I guess that depends on what you mean by consent. I was assuming the person in question had a legitimate copy of the content in the first place. In that case, loading it into memory does not generally constitute duplication, as otherwise you'd be violating copyright every time you opened the file or moved it to a new hard drive (as Windows has to load it into memory in order to write it to a new location). Now, you are limited as to the reasons you load the file into memory. If you load the file into a memory for a purpose that isn't allowed by your license, then it can be a copyright violation. But, again, what's really at issue here is what you're allowed to do with the content itself, not whether you got that content from the CB XML file, a PDF of the PHB I, or manually typed it into the computer from a hard copy.
Note I'm not a copyright lawyer, nor a US resident, so the law may vary and this isn't sound legal advice.
whitebaron you are forgetting "fair use"
WotC opened it to us to use.
It is "fair use" to make an app that reformats that information for your personal use. It is ok to distribute that app as well, as long as it doesn't distribute anything that belongs expressly to WotC.
It is not "fair use" to make an app that uploads the whole character sheet to a remote public site and makes it readable by anyone if it contains all the rules mechanics.
nimrand - I'm a long way from an expert on the finer points of copyright law, but I'm pretty certain that loading, without the owner's consent (explicit or implicit), anything into the memory of your computer constitutes making a copy and is a copyright violation.
I try not to muddy my hands in IP issues, but doesn't "fair use" only apply to - as you state - "personal use".
IE - if I make a "WolfSTar76 Character Sheet Style" that's fair use.
If I post it to my website for the world to use/borrow/edit/modify, that's distribution and a potential issue?
I work for an IP Law firm, but IANAL, so while I try to be well informed - these are the murky areas where I quickly get turned around, lost, confused, and eaten by a grue. (Knew I shoulda brought a torch. . . )
That's not to say a clear statement from WotC on the Legals isn't a good idea, just that there is no need to hold anything up while we get it.
As long as no one starts making apps to distribute IP content via Character sheets nothing to worry about.
ie making an ap that reads the provided character xml file and reformating that data for your use is the point of the change WotC made. (It frankly saves them having to work out ways to let us interface with their proprietory code etc to make our own character sheet formats useable directly by the character builder.)
@cailte: fair use is usually part of a contract, license or something similar. just because you can export stuff from software into a format everyone can read does not also open everyone up to use it contents without limits.
@wolfstar: making a character sheet style and offering it is not problematic.
the problem arises when you want to do more complex things, like importers into 3rd party apps, like FGII: while it is, indeed, personal use, you enable people to distribute copyrighted rules if you distribute such a software.
@cailte: fair use is usually part of a contract, license or something similar. just because you can export stuff from software into a format everyone can read does not also open everyone up to use it contents without limits.
Just to nit, but Fair Use is actually a term of art when it comes to copyright and the possibility of infringement. Most countries have some sort of Fair Use laws. And it should be noted that what people think is "fair" doesn't automatically make it fair use.
over in europe, fair use usually is stated for limitations to usage which are in a contract. like my fair-use-internetlimit was 10 GB some years ago. i did not have to pay extra if i went over, but if i went over to far and the network was in trouble due to performance issues, it might be grounds for cancellation of my contract.
---edit---
it seems the word fair access policy is used in the us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Access_Policy
Woo! XML output of characters?
That's gonna be GREAT for people who want alternate formatting of power cards.
I know of at LEAST one person in my RPGA group who's been dying for Power Cards in the "Anders" format.
We are talking about providing the information for the character sheet, not the power cards. Powers will be displayed with names, usage and action type only, as well as all the calculation provided by the Character Builder, but without all the text information of the powers.
We are talking about providing the information for the character sheet, not the power cards. Powers will be displayed with names, usage and action type only, as well as all the calculation provided by the Character Builder, but without all the text information of the powers.
There isn't that much information on a power card beyond name, action, and usage - if it includes those and the +9 vs. AC stuff, 1d8+5 damage stuff, that's good enough.
If not...well, that's less good.
It will happen during business hours for WoTC on Tuesday as it always does.
No it isn't.
It will happen during business hours for WoTC on Tuesday as it always does.
Damn those time zones.
We are talking about providing the information for the character sheet, not the power cards. Powers will be displayed with names, usage and action type only, as well as all the calculation provided by the Character Builder, but without all the text information of the powers.
I'm happy enough to take what I can get on this for now.
Is there a way to display ONLY the power cards in char builder?
Bug fixes usualy go up in a different article, much closer to the actual release.
Today is the release date. Where can I find bug fixes?
Thanks,
Sometimes I hate being Australian. Time zone voodoo messes with my head.
Well I'm in the Pacific Time zone and I just hate waiting.
You are not alone.SirFredrick
(Well, okay, I usually let my update finish before I start a stampede, but you get the point). ;)
You can follow us on twitter as @WolfStar76 and @mudbunny74 respectively. Or just watch the search page for #dnd and/or #ddi hash tags.
(not today's of course )
:D
But other than that looks good.
I don't have any information on this, but my gut feeling says that Wizards knows that this feature is wanted and would probably like to do it, but there are a couple of sticking points:
1) GUI Development. I'm guessing that they don't want to go the route where you import text/xml data files to specify new things, since it means they will have to answer tons of questions from people on how to do it right. I think they would rather prefer a graphical means of doing it, both for ease of use and to restrict what the user can do. My guess is that the actual creation of the custom items is not the bad part, but the GUI for this will be complex, with all of the options that people would want to have for it. People will want to create new classes, deities, items, feats, languages, items, powers, builds... etc. That's a lot of GUI to design, and that takes time and money.
2) Sharing. How you share the data with other users is an important issue to work through. The desire is probably to be able to share custom data with others. Given that, Wizards will want a way to prevent users from manually entering all of the new book data on their own and distributing it to others, tempting a number of people to drop their DDI subscriptions. Plus Wizards will want to have a way to prevent conflict if multiple versions of the same thing are created. (What happens if the user has created a new feat called Polearm Smackdown and Wizards later releases a new book with a feat of that name?)
I'd like very much to see this feature also, but I fear that it won't see the light of day due to the amount of effort involved. They apparently have done a clean XML output for this month's release which is also very much wanted, so there's some hope. We'll see.
Even if there isn't a full builder some sort of iPhone friendly app that reads character files and produces them in an iPhone friendly way would seem to be worthwhile.
Ahem: iPlay4e does precisely that. Upload your files from a browser, view (and track!) them on your iPhone.
So how do we export? I don't see a button. Is it the actual .dnd4e file that is formatted differently now?
Thanks for the info.
Cheers,
Sioban
So how do we export? I don't see a button. Is it the actual .dnd4e file that is formatted differently now?
That's what it looks like. There is a new Powers section (that looks like a major improvement) and some more info at the beginning also with character name and stuff.
You still have to apply some logic if you want to determine stat/skill breakdowns on the sheet (applying stacking and factoring in things such as whether the player is proficient in the item and whather heavy armor is worn, and so on). You also need to do a search to locate the short descriptions to the feats and class abilities the character has.
Also, to generate equipment lists like on the second page of the character sheet where you show which item is equipped in which slot, you will have to do some work.
The new functionality is certainly an improvement, but I think they missed the mark on what the users are considering "XML output". I think people want to export the character data to a clean document that they don't have to parse the other Builder-specific stuff (rules elements) out of, and that character sheet writers can pick up and use without needing to apply logic to.
That's what it looks like. There is a new Powers section (that looks like a major improvement) and some more info at the beginning also with character name and stuff.
You still have to apply some logic if you want to determine stat/skill breakdowns on the sheet (applying stacking and factoring in things such as whether the player is proficient in the item and whather heavy armor is worn, and so on). You also need to do a search to locate the short descriptions to the feats and class abilities the character has.
Also, to generate equipment lists like on the second page of the character sheet where you show which item is equipped in which slot, you will have to do some work.
The new functionality is certainly an improvement, but I think they missed the mark on what the users are considering "XML output". I think people want to export the character data to a clean document that they don't have to parse the other Builder-specific stuff (rules elements) out of, and that character sheet writers can pick up and use without needing to apply logic to.
I agree. If we need to weed through stuff it will be harder. I don't much care for definition of things (power, equipment, etc) myself, I want the stats, defs, hp, init mod and that should be enough. I going to see if I can take the summary and parse it. Problem is it doesn't look the same for every class. Anyway i'll see.
Cheers,
Sioban
Unlike the application rules engine files, the XML .dnd4e is not encrypted, and information in there can be used by third parties. I do want to work with our legal department on having a clearer definition of the does and don't of using that file, and offering the proper legal frame for its use by third parties, but this is something I can't really focus on fully (we are in the process of hiring a Project Manager to help continue build and re-enforce our processes).
So right now, my main focus, and the D&D Insider team's focus, is to get the updates for both Compendium and Character Builder out on schedule and as stable as we can make it with the tight deadlines and resources we are working with. We still wanted to acknowledge that providing a more accessible save file format for third parties to better serve the community without compromising our IP content or our business was and still is on our mind.
Full announcement thread is right here.