Will the Assassin work like the Githzerai and the Psion, being put into the CharBuilder at the start of the month and then being put into printable articles with explanations as the month goes on, or do we have to wait until October to make Assassins the in the CharBuilder? (That would suck...)
Hope to get some clarification, since we have a one-off session coming up in which there is some Assassin-playing interest and before we make chars we have to know if the assassin will be an option by then.
The assassin articles are going to come out throughout september with 3 seperate articles focusing on Heroic, Paragon, and Epic. It won't be just powers as paths, destinies, feats, etc. are also part of each tier.
This assassin material will be showing up in Character Builder with the October 6th update.
It goes in on the october update. The gith and psion are PHB3 previews. The Assassin is just a Dragon article. They're rushing it into the october update it looks like though.
The Githzerai and Psion were PHB3 preview material, which is the only material that gets added in immediately to the Compendium/CB upon release. The Assassin is normal Dragon content, so will be released over the course of the month as usual - though in this case, it seems it will be released over three seperate articles, to cover all the content and support being provided for it (the class itself, feats for all tiers, paragon paths, epic destiny, etc, etc.)
However, I do believe a staff member confirmed it was on a 'rapid' compendium update - which is to say, it will go into the update at the start of October, instead of waiting until the start of November like the rest of this month's issue. (Since there is a one month delay after the compilation of the article itself, by their usual schedule.)
The assassin is supposed to be a DDI Exclusive, item wich means it is supposed to be put in teh cb in Sept, just like revanant was. it is supposed to be PRGA/LFR legal right away not at the compilation. If memory serves me the 2 exceptions to the compilation rule was DDI exclusive material AND PHB3 preview material. tho i must admit all the rules/lawyer speek in CCG can be hard to follow sometimes.
However, the Assassin is not in the Sept 1st. Character Builder update.
However, the Assassin is not in the Sept 1st. Character Builder update.
It was never intended to be. DDI Exclusive material is released as in article form the month it comes out, and goes into the Character Builder/Compendium at the start of the following month. (As opposed to normal Dragon magazine content, which doesn't go into the CB until a month after it is compiled.)
I was responding to the above poster, who contests our mutual opinion. 
The assassin is supposed to be a DDI Exclusive, item wich means it is supposed to be put in teh cb in Sept, just like revanant was. it is supposed to be PRGA/LFR legal right away not at the compilation. If memory serves me the 2 exceptions to the compilation rule was DDI exclusive material AND PHB3 preview material. tho i must admit all the rules/lawyer speek in CCG can be hard to follow sometimes.
Wrong. Just like the Revenant was not in the CB/Compendium for two months, the Assassin was never scheduled to be in the CB immediately. It has been scheduled for the October update instead of November, which is when the rest of the issue will be included.
EWhat that means for when it will be RPGA legal, I don't know.
The Revenant didn't come out till 2 months after it was initially released, its nice to see the Assassin coming out in October.
The assassin came out in the core books. Its called a rogue with the brutal scoundrel. What are you wanting from an assassin? insta kill? I mean seriously...
The assassin came out in the core books. Its called a rogue with the brutal scoundrel. What are you wanting from an assassin? insta kill? I mean seriously...
The Assassin is a shadow striker with less HP, totally different striker mechanic and ability set, and is definitely a shadow class with teleports and insubstantial and implement powers. There was a preview of it at Gencon. They have no instant-kill that we know of, and will likely not have.
And besides, if Rogue is the only striker allowed to be stealthy, you might want to complain to the Ranger, Warlock, and Avenger (which i find the Assassin is closer to thematicly).
The assassin came out in the core books. Its called a rogue with the brutal scoundrel. What are you wanting from an assassin? insta kill? I mean seriously...
A character that can study an opponent to gain advantage against them, but using a method that lets them participate in combat during this time, and makes use of shadow magic to confuse the opponent and shift through the shadows to strike where they are most effective.
The rogue is awesome, sure. But the design for the assassin sounds very unique and should be both interesting to play and flavorful in concept. Seriously.
I was responding to the above poster, who contests our mutual opinion.
Whoops, my bad! I viewed it more as an expression of confusion in response to his point, not as rebuttal.
The assassin came out in the core books. Its called a rogue with the brutal scoundrel. What are you wanting from an assassin? insta kill? I mean seriously...
They say "assassin" they mean "ninja after the ki power source was removed".
All I'm seeing from WotC is a bunch of classes that should have been different powers and class features tacked onto the existing core classes. They sure know how to sucker people into buying more books though don't they? I mean most of the magic using classes could have been just a class feature or two on wizard with different powers. Same for all the others. The only difference is the fluff text that is on most of them.
More options is a good thing, not bad.
All I'm seeing from WotC is a bunch of classes that should have been different powers and class features tacked onto the existing core classes. They sure know how to sucker people into buying more books though don't they? I mean most of the magic using classes could have been just a class feature or two on wizard with different powers. Same for all the others. The only difference is the fluff text that is on most of them.
Yes. I have, indeed, been suckered by WotC into being interested in a diverse range of classes that offer unique mechanics and flavor, which function differently in play and are all independantly engaging and entertaining. How dare WotC offer us quality content we are looking for!? It would have been far better to have a single Wizard class that is 200 pages long, and lets characters be a controller/striker/leader/defender through Spells and Magic, because all Spells and Magic are the same thing, and there is no functional difference between a Wizard and a Swordmage and a Bard and a Sorcerer!
....or, alternatively, your opinion is completely absurd.
It's downright insulting to say that I've been 'suckered' into a purchase because WotC is offering me a product I want. Not to mention that it shows a complete lack of understanding for the game itself.
Seriously, how are Rogue and Assassin that similar? Conceptually, yes - though in terms of flavor, 'skill-based dex warrior' vs ' shadow magic based dex warrior' is a solid one. Mechanically, the Rogue is a class that, more than any other, takes advantage of working with other party members - while the Assassin looks like it will be potentially be much more isolated and independant. They featured different mechanics, different styles of play, and different background concepts.
I'm sorry that you feel the PHB should have been a 2,000 page document that had a bunch of extremely vague classes that players could then customize into any concept they want. That actually sounds somewhat interesting, and I'm sure there are games out there that are just what you are looking for. But it either wouldn't have resembled D&D, or it would have had to cast aside the vast majority of the options currently available, in order to do what you are suggesting. It certainly wouldn't be a product I would be interested in buying, though.
The thing is, even if classes were to be more of just 'specs' of the various existing classes, it'd still take more multiple books to get the diversity out there. Just you'd have a "Barbarian Fighter" in PHBII instead of a Barbarian, or the "Sorceror Wizard" instead of the sorceror. Though they'd have so many class feature changes to make them unique, it wouldn't really be the same class anymore.
From whats been previewd of the assassin, the only thing it appears to have in common with the rogue is that its a striker and is likely trained in stealth by default.
Probably also has a class feature that gives it a bonus in Stealth when using shadows... or a shadow stepping ability.
All I'm seeing from WotC is a bunch of classes that should have been different powers and class features tacked onto the existing core classes. They sure know how to sucker people into buying more books though don't they? I mean most of the magic using classes could have been just a class feature or two on wizard with different powers. Same for all the others. The only difference is the fluff text that is on most of them.
Yes. I have, indeed, been suckered by WotC into being interested in a diverse range of classes that offer unique mechanics and flavor, which function differently in play and are all independantly engaging and entertaining. How dare WotC offer us quality content we are looking for!? It would have been far better to have a single Wizard class that is 200 pages long, and lets characters be a controller/striker/leader/defender through Spells and Magic, because all Spells and Magic are the same thing, and there is no functional difference between a Wizard and a Swordmage and a Bard and a Sorcerer!
....or, alternatively, your opinion is completely absurd.
It's downright insulting to say that I've been 'suckered' into a purchase because WotC is offering me a product I want. Not to mention that it shows a complete lack of understanding for the game itself.
Seriously, how are Rogue and Assassin that similar? Conceptually, yes - though in terms of flavor, 'skill-based dex warrior' vs ' shadow magic based dex warrior' is a solid one. Mechanically, the Rogue is a class that, more than any other, takes advantage of working with other party members - while the Assassin looks like it will be potentially be much more isolated and independant. They featured different mechanics, different styles of play, and different background concepts.
I'm sorry that you feel the PHB should have been a 2,000 page document that had a bunch of extremely vague classes that players could then customize into any concept they want. That actually sounds somewhat interesting, and I'm sure there are games out there that are just what you are looking for. But it either wouldn't have resembled D&D, or it would have had to cast aside the vast majority of the options currently available, in order to do what you are suggesting. It certainly wouldn't be a product I would be interested in buying, though.
Well let me put it to you in another way. Each of the books have a variety of content right? So lets say you buy one of the books, how much of the content do you use? What 1-2 pages of the complete book? Maybe over the course of a couple of years you might use 10 pages? Once again I reiterate you just paid $30.00 for 10 pages of content. I've got a bridge I can sell you. Not to mention the powercreep.
Just so you know all of the classes are literally the same with the exception of the actual powers and the class features, so why complicate things and try to sell all of these books? oh wait because of the money.
I was under the impression that using shadows was exactly what a rogue does when they use 'stealth' I mean since you have to have shadows in the first place or some kind of cover.
The whole extra damage because I caught you off guard and stabbed you in a vital place is exactly what an assassin does. So basically conceptually an assassin is the same as a rogue. Now they might choose to change the implementation, but it will be pretty much the same thing. Of course when you factor in powercreep, then they just might give the assassin a shadow teleport power and allow them to do the equivalent of sneak attack damage every round without having CA. That would be just like WotC.
The thing is, even if classes were to be more of just 'specs' of the various existing classes, it'd still take more multiple books to get the diversity out there. Just you'd have a "Barbarian Fighter" in PHBII instead of a Barbarian, or the "Sorceror Wizard" instead of the sorceror. Though they'd have so many class feature changes to make them unique, it wouldn't really be the same class anymore.
From whats been previewd of the assassin, the only thing it appears to have in common with the rogue is that its a striker and is likely trained in stealth by default.
They might try to differentiate the way the assassin gets its damage in, but it'll end up being the equivalent of the sneak attack damage.
Probably also has a class feature that gives it a bonus in Stealth when using shadows... or a shadow stepping ability.
And how would that be different than the rogue? Seriously go back and read the stealth skill they gotta have some kind of cover like say shadows to be able to use stealth. They also have feats that allow them to have CA just about every round, so they can solo stuff.
Assassins have Assassin's Shroud, which once a round as a free action they can place a shroud on a target. This can stack up to 4 times.
When the Assassin makes an attack roll against the target, they can choose to 'activate' their shrouds or not. If they do, and hit, they deal 1d6 damage for each shroud, if they miss, they deal 1d6 damage as if they had a number of shrouds 1 less than the actual number of shrouds. Obviously the shrouds disapate after activate, and you can only have 1 target 'shrouded" at a time.
The assassin also has an at-will 3 square teleport, but both the starting point and the end point must be adjacent to an enemy.
They also have controller HP (i imagine this will make the Con spec very popular), but has some encounter thinga-magig that lets them go insubstantial until they attack.
They can use a Ki Focus (which odds are the monk has been changed to use too), which allow them to apply its enhancement bonus and properties to a weapon INSTEAD of its usual properties, effectively allowing the assassin to pick the perfect tool for the job. Unlike the rogue, the assassin seems more geared towards bastard swords and fullblades,as it has no weapon restrictions, but as noted earlier, its striker damage feature is more akin to the Ranger's. The assassin also has implement powers.
The Assassin appears to be able to get their shroud's d6's to be brutal 1 instead of d8's.
The Assassin, apparently like other shadow classes, gains its powers from the dark reflection of its soul from the Shadowfell. Its pretty much a dark shadowy ninja.
I get the feeling logical arguments are not going to change his mind.
Well let me put it to you in another way. Each of the books have a variety of content right? So lets say you buy one of the books, how much of the content do you use? What 1-2 pages of the complete book? Maybe over the course of a couple of years you might use 10 pages? Once again I reiterate you just paid $30.00 for 10 pages of content. I've got a bridge I can sell you. Not to mention the powercreep.
Again with the insults - because I enjoy buying WotC material, I'm apparently a sucker who turns over his money for no reason!
I get more use out of some books than others, it is true. I've got a couple books I haven't yet used at all - Open Grave, Draconomicon, Manual of the Planes. I picked those up in anticipation of when I return to the DM seat.... and I grabbed them now because I thought the content in them looked cool. And it was - I got a huge kick out of Draconomicon and MotP, just reading through them. Open Grave didn't catch me as much, I admit - I probably wouldn't have picked it up if I wasn't already putting in a preorder for the PHB2 at the time, and needed another item to get me into the free shipping range. Between it qualifying me for that, and having a coupon and discount on it to start with, I'd say it ran me closer to $10. So... you got me. I'm a sucker who paid $10 for a book I haven't used.
On the other hand, I've gotten a ton of use out of most of the player content book. Adventurer's Vault I have made constant use of. Arcane Power has been great for my Swordmage and my Warlock, Martial Power has simply inspired a ton of one-shot characters.... and PHB2, as a matter of fact, let me get new people playing the game. Being able to have these books, lend them out to friends, and show them what they can play meant that my friend's recent game has a Shaman, a Beastmaster Ranger, a dwarven Paladin making a ton of use of Divine Power. These are friends who either don't have any books, or only have the PHB - but being able to look through all these other options really inspired them and got them making interesting characters they enjoyed playing.
Which is what D&D is all about. You seem to be saying we shouldn't have any options, any diversitym, any other choices. That a product is only worth it if you can use all the content all the time, which would mean D&D should only have one single class, that can only be built in one single way - no choices, no differences, no point. Your idea of the game is a terrible one. Your arguments are founded in absurd contradictions and based on casting judgement on other players, simply because you are incapable of understanding the basics of game design and the elements that make D&D an enjoyable game to countless people.
Just so you know all of the classes are literally the same with the exception of the actual powers and the class features, so why complicate things and try to sell all of these books? oh wait because of the money.
All the classes are literally the same, except for the things that make them different. That is... technically true. And, also, a meaningless statement. The classes differ in what they are capable of doing and how they do it - what else are you expecting? So they differ in powers (what abilities they use in combat), features (what elements make them unique in the game), and concept (the background and flavor of the class). What else is there? What is 'literally the same'? Your words are empty and hollow and devoid of meaning.
I was under the impression that using shadows was exactly what a rogue does when they use 'stealth' I mean since you have to have shadows in the first place or some kind of cover.
A rogue is a skilled individual who is adept at hiding in shadows. Any character using stealth is hiding from observation, often in the shadows. This is completely different than magically walking through shadows or animating them and having them attack your enemies, or magically obscuring yourself with shadows in the middle of daylight. How can you not comprehend that?
A fighter might be able to jump really high, and create a fire with some flint and steel. Clearly he can do magic, since that's the same as a wizard who can fly and throw fireballs, right?
The whole extra damage because I caught you off guard and stabbed you in a vital place is exactly what an assassin does. So basically conceptually an assassin is the same as a rogue. Now they might choose to change the implementation, but it will be pretty much the same thing. Of course when you factor in powercreep, then they just might give the assassin a shadow teleport power and allow them to do the equivalent of sneak attack damage every round without having CA. That would be just like WotC.
Good to know you haven't even tried to listen to the people explaining how they work. They aren't getting Sneak Attack every round without CA. It sounds like they will have a bit of a direct damage boost compared to Rogue's without CA (bigger weapons, etc), but not have a comparable damage rider to Sneak Attack - but instead can build up a damage bonus over several rounds, with the advantage that they get some of that damage even if they miss.
So they have a mechanic that both works completely different and has a very different feel in how it will play - which should be balanced with the rogue while remaining unique. Far more unique, in fact, than any of the PHB1 striker bonuses, which were just flat damage dice.
I am amused how you earlier said, "The only difference is the fluff text that is on most of them," implying that it was the mechanics that were the same but the fluff that was different... and now are complaining that even if the mechanics are different, the fluff is the same.
It is amusing both because you are contradicting yourself... and also because you are again wrong. The rogue takes advantage of a sudden opening in an opponent's lapsed defense to strike a deadly blow against their vitals. The assassin spends time studying his enemy, learning and adapting to their combat style until they turn that knowledge against their foe in a deadly attack. That is definitely a legitimate conceptual difference.
They might try to differentiate the way the assassin gets its damage in, but it'll end up being the equivalent of the sneak attack damage.
So, it has a different mechanic, results in a different playstyle, and has a different explanation for it conceptually. But somehow is the same. Clearly D&D will never satisfy you as a diverse game, since you seem to believe that any attack that deals damage is identical to any other attack that deals damage. I don't think any game exists that could satisfy that level of absurd demand...
Well let me put it to you in another way. Each of the books have a variety of content right? So lets say you buy one of the books, how much of the content do you use? What 1-2 pages of the complete book? Maybe over the course of a couple of years you might use 10 pages? Once again I reiterate you just paid $30.00 for 10 pages of content. I've got a bridge I can sell you. Not to mention the powercreep.
I use practically all of the book because I like reading through all of the material before deciding which race and class I want to play. I do not have the foresight to know what material appeals to me before I actually read it. Perhaps if I know ahead of time what material does not interest me, then I would feel that way. I need to read what the druid, invoker, avenger, etc. can do before I decide whether or not to play one. Also, I really like to know what an avenger can do because if I am playing in a game where there is an avenger, I will know how to work effectively with one.
Just so you know all of the classes are literally the same with the exception of the actual powers and the class features, so why complicate things and try to sell all of these books? oh wait because of the money.
This has not been my experience. In my group (2 campaigns), there is a (tempest) fighter, warlord, 2 rogues, ranger-wizard/rogue, warlock, sorcerer, fighter/wizard, paladin-warlock, and druid. They all look and play pretty differently to me. What makes you say they are literally the same? What classes have you played and what experience leads you to feel that the classes are essentially the same?
I was under the impression that using shadows was exactly what a rogue does when they use 'stealth' I mean since you have to have shadows in the first place or some kind of cover.
When you use stealth, you need superior cover or total concealment. You don't necessarily need a shadow. The shadow power source is different. If you are familiar with the Artemis Entreri character from the FR novels, this character resembles an assassin the most right down to the fact that he is part shade (the race).
The whole extra damage because I caught you off guard and stabbed you in a vital place is exactly what an assassin does. So basically conceptually an assassin is the same as a rogue.
...
And how would that be different than the rogue? Seriously go back and read the stealth skill they gotta have some kind of cover like say shadows to be able to use stealth. They also have feats that allow them to have CA just about every round, so they can solo stuff.
I would suggest you take a look at the assassin yourself to see the difference. Here's a link: www.critical-hits.com/2009/08/14/gencon-...
Note that the final version will likely have a few changes, notably the power source (from Ki to Shadow).
...Glancing through this topic, I literally stopped reading Lokiare's posts when i saw "Other than powers and features, they're the same."
You know real life and fiction are all the same, if you assume all fiction is true. Or that all real events are make-believe. There's entirely no diferrence to them.
You know that hot and cold are all the same, right? If you disregard the measurement of tempurature altogether, they're both just sensations. There's entirely no difference between taking a swim in 50 degree water and 500 degree water.
You know that the void of space and earth's surface are the same, right? There's either a prescence or lack of gravity, substance, and air. It's all the same thing, if you take away EVERYTHING THAT MAKES THEM DIFFERENT.
(Oh, and by the way, your statement itself is purely false. After class features and powers, there's the basic staticsitcs of the class. Weapon, Implement, and Armor proficiencies, starting hp, hp per level, class skills. All those are different. So take away the VASTLY DIFFERENT class features and powers, and you still have ENTIRELY UNALIKE base statistics. But most importantly, you're refusing to listen to people that saw the preveiw and can state for a fact that the assassin plays differently than a rogue. This is not opinion, just like "Swordmages play differently than Paladins" is not an opinion.)
I'd say the only one being "suckered" here is you, by your own sense of entitlement.
Forget the CB, I want to know when the Assassin class is going to be out. Heroic tier is supposed to be out this week, but I don't know what day 
The 11th. The entire schedule is on the editorial calendar.
The 11th. The entire schedule is on the editorial calendar.
I never knew such a thing existed. Where might i find it?
Several posts have had to be deleted, either for violating the Code of Conduct or because the post they were replying to violated the Code of Conduct. Please keep your posts free from any personal insults or accusations.
Thanks.
I never knew such a thing existed. Where might i find it?
You can find the Editorial Calendar here: Editorial Calendar.