at will power showing as encounter power - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

at will power showing as encounter power

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
phaedron
Apr 28, 2009 18:29:43 On the character sheet - When I equip my Duel Implement wizard with a Thunder Wand and Master's Wand of Thunderwave, his Thunderwave power does not show up under his at will powers, it is listed as one of his encounter powers

in the character builder, Thunderwave occupies an at-will slot but the color is red and the power stat block text reads "Encounter"
#2
rtrnofdmax
Apr 29, 2009 9:03:38 I have the problem when retraining my Half-Elf Dilettante power. At Character Creation the At-Will I choose shows up as an encounter as it should. Then when I retrain into a different At-Will, it show up as an At-Will. Well it shows as green at least.
#3
Seakog
Apr 29, 2009 9:16:03 It appears to be caused by anyt item that gives you a power you already have as an at will, as an encounter power. I have a wizard with master wand of magic missile who knows magic missle naturally and it lists the spell as only encounter for him. Makes a good number of the wands unusable.
#4
nsibystander
Apr 29, 2009 11:49:41 I noticed the same thing happens when making a Gnome Wizard. The Ghost Sound cantrip should be an at-will because of the Wizard Class Feature, but since Gnomes get it as an encounter power, it only lists it as an encounter power.
#5
Forgarn
Apr 29, 2009 15:20:45
I have the problem when retraining my Half-Elf Dilettante power. At Character Creation the At-Will I choose shows up as an encounter as it should. Then when I retrain into a different At-Will, it show up as an At-Will. Well it shows as green at least.

I think that may be a bug because I don't think you can retrain your Dilettante ability.
#6
phaedron
Apr 29, 2009 17:38:06 looks like there's a pattern on this one, I'm sure the good folks at Wizards will see this thread and get a patch into some upcoming release, though not necessarily the next one. I manage software development and understand how prioritization works when managing an effort of this size and complexity. Kudos to the development team, I think the CB is fantastic.
#7
rtrnofdmax
Apr 30, 2009 8:42:21
I think that may be a bug because I don't think you can retrain your Dilettante ability.

But it's an At-Will, Encounter or Daily power that isn't from a class feature, paragon path or epic destiny. Is this stated somewhere else?
#8
Forgarn
Apr 30, 2009 10:12:00 Its a racial feature. You cannot retrain the Dragonborn's Breathweapon (which is an encounter power that is not from a class feature, paragon path or epic destiny), nor can you retrain the Eledrin's Fey Step, nor the Elf's Evlen Accuracy, nor the Halfling's Second Chance (etc., etc., etc.) so why would you be able to retrain the half-elf's?
#9
rtrnofdmax
Apr 30, 2009 15:03:32 First off, the only example you listed that applies is the Dragonborns as it has other options. The rest just get that power and no choice of another. Now I agree with you that a DragonBorn shouldn't get to change this feature.

Now I believe you can retrain Dilettante for the reason stated above and because it's an attack power. There are only three conditions for which a power cannot be retrained according to the PHB. Unless there is errata, I don't see where it says you can't retrain racial features related to an attack power that could be retrained were I of that class. Can a Human not retrain his extra at-will? The half-elf dabbles in things outside his expertise. If a fighter can forget how to cleave, a half-elf can dabble in something else.
#10
Forgarn
May 07, 2009 10:23:21
First off, the only example you listed that applies is the Dragonborns as it has other options. The rest just get that power and no choice of another.

What??? The dragonborn gets breath weapon and that is it. I am not sure what you mean by "other options." Unless you are talking about the option that they get to choose to use their breath weapon as Str, Con, or Dex and then what element they use. Once that is chosen, unless they take a racial feat, that is it.

Now I agree with you that a DragonBorn shouldn't get to change this feature.

Then why do you feel that the Dragonborn should not be able to change their feature but the half-elf can?

Now I believe you can retrain Dilettante for the reason stated above and because it's an attack power.

Actually, no the Dilettante is a racial feature. The resulting power is an attack power, but what gave you that power is not.

There are only three conditions for which a power cannot be retrained according to the PHB. Unless there is errata, I don't see where it says you can't retrain racial features related to an attack power that could be retrained were I of that class. Can a Human not retrain his extra at-will?

That is a ruling that the DM has to make. I said no because it is a racial feature they get because they are human. I ruled the same with their extra feat. And it is very easy to tell the difference. First when you go to the feat or power section it specifically lists the power choices as "Human" or "Half-Elf" and the feat is listed specifically as "Human." Had it been something different, they would have just labeled it as a power or feat.

The half-elf dabbles in things outside his expertise. If a fighter can forget how to cleave, a half-elf can dabble in something else.

I disagree with this statement as it is not supported in the book. I submit that because they are descended from humans, they have the watered down ability to get an extra power (watered down in that they can choose it from any class but it is an encounter power instead of an at-will) and they can use feats that have human or elf in the prereqs.
#11
quishadi
May 08, 2009 10:34:03 I know this is somewhat off-topic, but Forgarn are you saying that a human cannot retrain his/her bonus feat and skill because they're gained as a racial feature? The description says that they are "bonus" and they are non-specific.
I guess I can see not retraining a Ranger's bonus feat because it's specific and depends on the choice of class feature, but a human's extra feat is just an additional freely chosen feat at first level, where in the rules would retraining that be disallowed?

BTW, I'm not in any way commenting on the half-elf feature.
#12
Kaviyd3
May 10, 2009 1:25:10 To summarize: I think this thread mentions two bugs in the Character Builder:

1) When a character acquires and equips an item that grants a power, the power card uses the item's designation of how often the power can be used even if the character naturally has the ability to use that power more often.

Workaround: Do not equip such items when generating your character sheet and power cards.

2) When a half-elf retrains his dilettante power, the replacement power shows up as an at-will power even though it is an encounter power for this character.

Workaround: Re-select dilettante power under the Powers tab as though for the first time.
#13
Forgarn
May 12, 2009 11:19:31
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but Forgarn are you saying that a human cannot retrain his/her bonus feat and skill because they're gained as a racial feature? The description says that they are "bonus" and they are non-specific.
I guess I can see not retraining a Ranger's bonus feat because it's specific and depends on the choice of class feature, but a human's extra feat is just an additional freely chosen feat at first level, where in the rules would retraining that be disallowed?

BTW, I'm not in any way commenting on the half-elf feature.

Yes that is what I am saying. If you use the CB and create a human character, look at the power section and the feat section. you will notice that it shows a "1st level" feat selection and a "human" feat selection. Not a "bonus" feat selection. The same holds true for the powers. It shows a " At-Will 1" twice and a "Human." Therefore, in my game, they are considered as racial traits and are not retrainable. Plus the thing that gives them to you is listed under the "Racial Traits" section of the race description.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 phaedron Apr 28, 2009 18:29:43	On the character sheet - When I equip my Duel Implement wizard with a Thunder Wand and Master's Wand of Thunderwave, his Thunderwave power does not show up under his at will powers, it is listed as one of his encounter powers in the character builder, Thunderwave occupies an at-will slot but the color is red and the power stat block text reads "Encounter"
#2 rtrnofdmax Apr 29, 2009 9:03:38	I have the problem when retraining my Half-Elf Dilettante power. At Character Creation the At-Will I choose shows up as an encounter as it should. Then when I retrain into a different At-Will, it show up as an At-Will. Well it shows as green at least.
#3 Seakog Apr 29, 2009 9:16:03	It appears to be caused by anyt item that gives you a power you already have as an at will, as an encounter power. I have a wizard with master wand of magic missile who knows magic missle naturally and it lists the spell as only encounter for him. Makes a good number of the wands unusable.
#4 nsibystander Apr 29, 2009 11:49:41	I noticed the same thing happens when making a Gnome Wizard. The Ghost Sound cantrip should be an at-will because of the Wizard Class Feature, but since Gnomes get it as an encounter power, it only lists it as an encounter power.
#5 Forgarn Apr 29, 2009 15:20:45	I have the problem when retraining my Half-Elf Dilettante power. At Character Creation the At-Will I choose shows up as an encounter as it should. Then when I retrain into a different At-Will, it show up as an At-Will. Well it shows as green at least. I think that may be a bug because I don't think you can retrain your Dilettante ability.
#6 phaedron Apr 29, 2009 17:38:06	looks like there's a pattern on this one, I'm sure the good folks at Wizards will see this thread and get a patch into some upcoming release, though not necessarily the next one. I manage software development and understand how prioritization works when managing an effort of this size and complexity. Kudos to the development team, I think the CB is fantastic.
#7 rtrnofdmax Apr 30, 2009 8:42:21	I think that may be a bug because I don't think you can retrain your Dilettante ability. But it's an At-Will, Encounter or Daily power that isn't from a class feature, paragon path or epic destiny. Is this stated somewhere else?
#8 Forgarn Apr 30, 2009 10:12:00	Its a racial feature. You cannot retrain the Dragonborn's Breathweapon (which is an encounter power that is not from a class feature, paragon path or epic destiny), nor can you retrain the Eledrin's Fey Step, nor the Elf's Evlen Accuracy, nor the Halfling's Second Chance (etc., etc., etc.) so why would you be able to retrain the half-elf's?
#9 rtrnofdmax Apr 30, 2009 15:03:32	First off, the only example you listed that applies is the Dragonborns as it has other options. The rest just get that power and no choice of another. Now I agree with you that a DragonBorn shouldn't get to change this feature. Now I believe you can retrain Dilettante for the reason stated above and because it's an attack power. There are only three conditions for which a power cannot be retrained according to the PHB. Unless there is errata, I don't see where it says you can't retrain racial features related to an attack power that could be retrained were I of that class. Can a Human not retrain his extra at-will? The half-elf dabbles in things outside his expertise. If a fighter can forget how to cleave, a half-elf can dabble in something else.
#10 Forgarn May 07, 2009 10:23:21	First off, the only example you listed that applies is the Dragonborns as it has other options. The rest just get that power and no choice of another. What??? The dragonborn gets breath weapon and that is it. I am not sure what you mean by "other options." Unless you are talking about the option that they get to choose to use their breath weapon as Str, Con, or Dex and then what element they use. Once that is chosen, unless they take a racial feat, that is it. Now I agree with you that a DragonBorn shouldn't get to change this feature. Then why do you feel that the Dragonborn should not be able to change their feature but the half-elf can? Now I believe you can retrain Dilettante for the reason stated above and because it's an attack power. Actually, no the Dilettante is a racial feature. The resulting power is an attack power, but what gave you that power is not. There are only three conditions for which a power cannot be retrained according to the PHB. Unless there is errata, I don't see where it says you can't retrain racial features related to an attack power that could be retrained were I of that class. Can a Human not retrain his extra at-will? That is a ruling that the DM has to make. I said no because it is a racial feature they get because they are human. I ruled the same with their extra feat. And it is very easy to tell the difference. First when you go to the feat or power section it specifically lists the power choices as "Human" or "Half-Elf" and the feat is listed specifically as "Human." Had it been something different, they would have just labeled it as a power or feat. The half-elf dabbles in things outside his expertise. If a fighter can forget how to cleave, a half-elf can dabble in something else. I disagree with this statement as it is not supported in the book. I submit that because they are descended from humans, they have the watered down ability to get an extra power (watered down in that they can choose it from any class but it is an encounter power instead of an at-will) and they can use feats that have human or elf in the prereqs.
#11 quishadi May 08, 2009 10:34:03	I know this is somewhat off-topic, but Forgarn are you saying that a human cannot retrain his/her bonus feat and skill because they're gained as a racial feature? The description says that they are "bonus" and they are non-specific. I guess I can see not retraining a Ranger's bonus feat because it's specific and depends on the choice of class feature, but a human's extra feat is just an additional freely chosen feat at first level, where in the rules would retraining that be disallowed? BTW, I'm not in any way commenting on the half-elf feature.
#12 Kaviyd3 May 10, 2009 1:25:10	To summarize: I think this thread mentions two bugs in the Character Builder: 1) When a character acquires and equips an item that grants a power, the power card uses the item's designation of how often the power can be used even if the character naturally has the ability to use that power more often. Workaround: Do not equip such items when generating your character sheet and power cards. 2) When a half-elf retrains his dilettante power, the replacement power shows up as an at-will power even though it is an encounter power for this character. Workaround: Re-select dilettante power under the Powers tab as though for the first time.
#13 Forgarn May 12, 2009 11:19:31	I know this is somewhat off-topic, but Forgarn are you saying that a human cannot retrain his/her bonus feat and skill because they're gained as a racial feature? The description says that they are "bonus" and they are non-specific. I guess I can see not retraining a Ranger's bonus feat because it's specific and depends on the choice of class feature, but a human's extra feat is just an additional freely chosen feat at first level, where in the rules would retraining that be disallowed? BTW, I'm not in any way commenting on the half-elf feature. Yes that is what I am saying. If you use the CB and create a human character, look at the power section and the feat section. you will notice that it shows a "1st level" feat selection and a "human" feat selection. Not a "bonus" feat selection. The same holds true for the powers. It shows a " At-Will 1" twice and a "Human." Therefore, in my game, they are considered as racial traits and are not retrainable. Plus the thing that gives them to you is listed under the "Racial Traits" section of the race description.