You must click the box for "auto-renewal" before your subscription can be confirmed (there is no other option given). This means you will automatically be re-subscribed at the end of each billing period . . . unless you cancel the auto-renewal. This is from the DDI FAQ:
How do I turn off stop auto-renew on my subscription?
To stop auto-renew, you will need to fill out a form to contact our billing specialists.
First, make sure that you are logged into the Wizards of the Coast website. Once you have logged in, click here to open the form. You will need to provide your first name, last name, and the last five digits of the credit card used when you purchased your D&D Insider subscription.
In the subject and message fields please indicate that you want to stop the auto-renew feature of your subscription. You should recieve a response within two days of submitting the request.
For customers who want to purchase the three-month or year subscription, auto-renewal shouldn't be too much hassle. They only need to cancel the auto-renew once every few months or every year.
What about customers who only want to buy the single month subscription however, the more occasional subscriber? Will we need to fill out a form each and every time? Is there a simpler, more direct way to handle this? As it is now, there's human interaction to consider and cancellation isn't instantaneous (or guaranteed if human error enters into the equation).
I'd really like to purchase a subscription but I'm uncomfortable with the way this is set up currently. If auto-renewal has to be a part of the deal (like it or not), please consider making cancellation instantaneous, no delay, and no human interaction. Better yet, have an option for it to be avoided altogether. If this can be achieved, I'll be quick to reconsider purchasing a subscription.
[Edit] Here's some more info on auto-renewal (from the FAQ) that may be of interest:
What is auto-renewal and how does it affect my Dungeons & Dragons Insider subscription?
Auto-renewal allows you to sign up for a subscription plan that works for you, and then easily maintain that subscription through each billing period.. This means if you sign up for a month subscription of Dungeons & Dragons Insider, one month from the date that you started your subscription, your credit card will be charged for another month and your subscription will automatically be renewed. This will happen until you decide to turn off your auto-renew.
Auto-renewal Terms and Conditions
By checking the box (when making a D&D Insider order) and providing your credit or debit card billing information, you agree that your product subscription will automatically renew for successive renewal terms, and you expressly authorize and permit Digital River, Inc. (“DR”) to bill each product subscription renewal fee to the credit or debit card you have provided, until you cancel the automatic renewal and billing of your product subscription or DR discontinues the automatic renewal and billing option.
You have complete control over your product subscription and may cancel your auto-renewal at any time. Your order confirmation and confirmation email will include instructions for how to cancel automatic renewal and billing of your subscription. If you discontinue or do not select automatic renewal and billing of your subscription, you must manually renew your subscription to prevent interruption of service. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not check the box, provide your credit or debit card information, or complete this sale.
Notice that there is no way to not select auto-renewal at sign-up (at least not yet); you must select the box before your order is confirmed (no other option is given).
Note you have "complete control over your product subscription and may cancel your auto-renewal at any time". It should also be noted however, that cancelation isn't instantaneous and requires human interaction (there's a chance of human error, at least in my mind).
What is your policy for stopping auto-renewal?
When auto-renew is stopped on monthly subscriptions, they will not be renewed the following month. Annual auto-renew subscriptions that are stopped will not be renewed for another year. Subscribers will continue receiving service for which they have paid.
Stopping auto-renew will not refund any payment that has already been made. It simply makes it so you will not be charged or automatically renewed when your current subscription ends.
Coercive autorenewal is an unethical business practice.
Do you mean having it set to autorenew unless you state otherwise?? That's not unethical as long as it is clearly stated, which it appears to be in this case. In addition, having subscriptions be set to auto-renew unless the consumer does otherwise is a pretty standard business practice.
Do you mean having it set to autorenew unless you state otherwise?? That's not unethical as long as it is clearly stated, which it appears to be in this case. In addition, having subscriptions be set to auto-renew unless the consumer does otherwise is a pretty standard business practice.
Some are reporting that if they do not select auto renew, they are not allowed to complete the purchase. That is if you want to buy one month without auto renew the sale will not be processed.
I have not tested this so I do not know if this occurs to everyone that signed up or just some.
The intention of autorenewals is to steal money. From people who forget, dont fully understand, or cant face the hassle of trying to stop monetary payments. It is extortion. Especially, in the situation of WotC, where many minors use their parent's credit card to purchase D&D items, it is unethical.
Autorenewal can be an option at the time of purchase for the few who find it a convenience, but it cant be a requirement for the many who must prioritize payments for food and shelter, over D&D.
For myself, I simply dont trust companies that use such tactics, and I wont have my hands tied by them.
Right now Im still in a state of denial. I cant believe that WotC would resort to this kind of tactic. I expect them to correct this "oversight" as soon as possible. If they really do continue to force coercive autorenewals, it will disgust me.
There were problems with the early phases of the SRD, that many people also felt were unethical. In the end, WotC did the right thing and, IMO, came up with a workable solution.
The problem I have with this system is the lack of automatic cancellation facilities with no human intervention.
Auto-renew demands auto-cancel. We found that out the hard way with AOL.
This won't keep me out, but it is just one more thing to add to the stack of things I'm not thrilled about....
I will not subscribe unless they make Auto-renewal an option. I have had too many problems canceling subscriptions.
It is an option.
It is just not an option when signing up for the service.
But it is optional.
This may be only a little factor, but it is enough to make me say, "I don't need this sort of hassle," before I just move on.
I'm not going to select anything saying that I want to auto-renew. I don't care that I can say, "just kidding," ten minutes later.
I have a choice whether to give you money or not. If I don't feel 100% safe giving you my credit card number, I'm not going to give it to you.
If you I feel you are going to make me do more work to avoid you stealing my money, then I'm not going to give my number to you.
I deserve to feel safe with giving my number to respectable companies, WotC doesn't get special treatment.
I'm on the border between either getting or not getting a subscription.
This may be only a little factor, but it is enough to make me say, "I don't need this sort of hassle," before I just move on.
I'm not going to select anything saying that I want to auto-renew. I don't care that I can say, "just kidding," ten minutes later.
I have a choice whether to give you money or not. If I don't feel 100% safe giving you my credit card number, I'm not going to give it to you.
If you I feel you are going to make me do more work to avoid you stealing my money, then I'm not going to give my number to you.
I deserve to feel safe with giving my number to respectable companies, WotC doesn't get special treatment.
Fair to say, but the emphasis should be on the hassle.
Fair to say, but the emphasis should be on the hassle.
True, but I think they already know the reasons they should take it away and which are the best reasons.
I'm just noting that this issue is a deal-breaker for me, although I guess I didn't need half that text to say that.
It is an option.
It is just not an option when signing up for the service.
But it is optional.
the problem is it is a ridiculously convoluted way to do it. There is absolutely no reason to do it this way except to be able to do 2 things which are regularly done in this situation
1) make it so hard to cancel many will not bother with it and you will get to keep collecting the money far longer than you should
2) Be able to delay the cancellation for an indefinite amount of time to continue extracting money far longer than you should.
Note that it never says you will get a response within 2 days it says You should receive a response within two days of submitting the request. So I decide to cancel mid month and they don't get around to it until the next month. Also note this Stopping auto-renew will not refund any payment that has already been made. It simply makes it so you will not be charged or automatically renewed when your current subscription ends. In said case they would get to keep my money.
Wizards Has already lost way more customer confidence since the debut of D&DI than they can afford to. This doesn't help
obviously, the one who wants to subscribe is not sure whether he wants to do it for longer or just test it out, so he wants to get a better feeling before paying for the whole thing.
so: what is the reasoning behind forcing auto-renewal on 1 month subscriptions? can only be argued with getting more money...
my biggest problem is enforcing auto-renewal for 1 or 3 month subscriptions.
obviously, the one who wants to subscribe is not sure whether he wants to do it for longer or just test it out, so he wants to get a better feeling before paying for the whole thing.
so: what is the reasoning behind forcing auto-renewal on 1 month subscriptions? can only be argued with getting more money...
See, this is why I keep replying.
It's not "enforced". It's just "enforced on signup".
It's a hassle. And that might be a deal breaker for some. I think that's perfectly legitimate.
There is a difference between "enforced" and "no option to disable on signup".
That is a system not only can I live with, but I applaud. I wouldnt give a company 2 nickles for a system that someone has to get back to ME before I can cancel.. and it takes 2 days. D&Di has been a joke from the beginning. They didnt launch with anything. 6 months down the road, theres still nothing worth paying for just more jokes and a slap on the face that says you have to pay for your laugh. And NOW they're pulling out all the dirty tricks that have been around for as long as dirty companies have
What. a. crock.
See, this is why I keep replying.
It's not "enforced". It's just "enforced on signup".
It's a hassle. And that might be a deal breaker for some. I think that's perfectly legitimate.
There is a difference between "enforced" and "no option to disable on signup".
I think most of us are in fact agreeing about all this, just in slightly different ways. Viva la interneta!
please keep your brown nosing to yourself. No offence personally
Comedy classic.
If your true concern is that the cancel option is a hassle, then that's a different issue than the auto-renewal. It's related certainly, but it's something else.
And it's not a "scam" to have poor customer service.
I'm not denying that this is an issue that should be resolved, and have stated that it's a problem. I don't see how it's "brown nosing" to correct misinformation.
It is NOT poor customer service. How about this then... you tell me why they don't have an auto cancel button. Honestly. Tell me the reasons YOU think they decided to not have one
My concern is that i would be FORCED to auto renew.... and not able to cancel that instantly
That is how they are providing poor customer service.
It is NOT poor customer service.
You like it then?
How about this then... you tell me why they don't have an auto cancel button. Honestly. Tell me the reasons YOU think they decided to not have one
Because they are WotC, this is the first time they are trying this, and they didn't think it through.
They. Screwed. Up.
That doesn't make it a "scam".
My concern is that i would be FORCED to auto renew.... and not able to cancel that instantly
It is NOT poor customer service. How about this then... you tell me why they don't have an auto cancel button. Honestly. Tell me the reasons YOU think they decided to not have one
Perhaps Grey's Law applies here: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
Perhaps Grey's Law applies here: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
I've never heard that line. That does seem to be the issue though.
Lets all take a couple of deep breaths and try to lower the hostility a litle bit, shall we.
Takes off VCL Hat
The discussion on whether the method of Auto renewal cancellation chosen by WotC may have very little to do with WotC and a lot to do with how Digital River operates. In any case, is it more inconveniant that having it simply automatically cancel the subscription, yes. But before we start boiling the pitch and readying the feathers, lets see if we can't get some info from WotC/DR on why this particular method was chosen.
It's not "enforced". It's just "enforced on signup".
and the difference is ...?
always enforced would mean you could never quit, which is something i believe illegitimate in all democratic nations of the world. enforcing on signup is the same as not giving that option at all.
Dirty tricks to get the most dollars they can is not poor customer service. It was EAs first online game (UO) it was blizzards first online game (wow) you know, theres a million companies who dont 'screw up' their first shot out of the gate. Theres someone who made a CONSCIOUS decision to have this system instead of a simple one and if you can't at least agree with me on that then I guess you wont see the faults in any company you like
WOTC is a horrible company and I wish someone else was handling these games I hold and have held so dear to me for 25 + years
here's another big laugh. Nothing like that is ever going to happen. my hostility is towards this company not any of the posters in this thread. I am the voice of 10 thousand ticked off customers who don't come to these boards
If the state of D&D is making you so unhappy, I promise you there are solutions to be found elsewhere. And this isn't a 'like it or get out' thing, there's just so much out there it's pointless getting angry about any particular system. Especially a brand new one.
Castles & Crusades has free quickplay rules at their site: http://www.trolllord.com/cnc/ccqs.html
and the difference is ...?
always enforced would mean you could never quit, which is something i believe illegitimate in all democratic nations of the world. enforcing on signup is the same as not giving that option at all.
The difference I was specifically thinking of is that you're either auto-renewing or you're locked out of content immediately. Meaning you'd have to wait until the last minute and then cancel otherwise you'd miss the content you paid for.
Yes that would be heinous and more than a little illegal, but that's what people were saying.
You might think point out that this is not the case is redundant, but I think clarity is a worthy goal.
The difference I was specifically thinking of is that you're either auto-renewing or you're locked out of content immediately. Meaning you'd have to wait until the last minute and then cancel otherwise you'd miss the content you paid for.
well, without auto-renewal, WOTC could send emails to their customers, where they remind them of the ending of their subscription. works fine with other digital content.
there's no need to charge the credit card before the new month/months will start, as transactions can be pushed in the future if the company wants it that way (see amazon, they ask for your credit card and charge 6 months later when they deliver)
and, obviously, there's no need to turn off the content if auto-renewal is turned off. also, if people forget to re-subscribe immediately, they could be offered to continue from their last subscription end date, which would probably make a whole lot of sense.
if people forget to re-subscribe immediately, they could be offered to continue from their last subscription end date, which would probably make a whole lot of sense.
That would be a great service but that might not be one that digital river is offering to WotC.
That would be a great service but that might not be one that digital river is offering to WotC.
dr is just the company that gets your creditcard number, and sends how much you paid to wotc. everything else is done by wotc.
so if they wanted to have such or any other system in place, it falls to their management to decide, and their developers to implement.
DR does not in any case, have something to do with your accounts, expiration dates, renewal cycles, payment methods etc. these are all decisions by wotc management.
[i] I am the voice of 10 thousand ticked off customers who don't come to these boards
You are the voice of one person, just like anyone else here.
You represent yourself, just as I represent myself, and the next person themselves, etc.
You're entitled to your opinion, but try to keep the vitriol and hyperbole to a minimum, it only serves to enflame tempers more often than not.
You are the voice of one person, just like anyone else here.
You represent yourself, just as I represent myself, and the next person themselves, etc.
You're entitled to your opinion, but try to keep the vitriol and hyperbole to a minimum, it only serves to enflame tempers more often than not.
If he did that, how would I know who to put on ignore?
You are the voice of one person, just like anyone else here.
Of course given the trend in site traffic ever during Gleemax's launch and subsequent crash and burn, he might be on to something with tons of people leaving and not coming back. I'd be really curious if the DDI launch (incomplete and late as it might be) might have changed the trend observed during the Gleemax period.
They. Screwed. Up.
That doesn't make it a "scam".
Seriously you can't be saying they did this on accident this is a blatant attempt to delay cancellations there's simply no other reason for it. can you seriously with a straight face imagine the conversation on this issue. So the auto renew function here is how it will work (Plug current auto renew ) and everyone at the table says ya that sounds good we should totally pay someone to cancel subscriptions I mean there's no way we could automate something like that.
FWIW, I was intending to give things a three month trial, and then look at a full year after that based on how the three months testing went. But if I'm going to have to risk my money on a manually processed auto renewal cancellation, then I'll save it and wait for back issues to become available if there's anything I want in them. Based on the overall performance to date, I'm not gambling my money on how well a cancellation works. I'm afraid that given how WotC has handled things so far I'd end up paying for two subscriptions.
Seriously you can't be saying they did this on accident this is a blatant attempt to delay cancellations there's simply no other reason for it. can you seriously with a straight face imagine the conversation on this issue. So the auto renew function here is how it will work (Plug current auto renew ) and everyone at the table says ya that sounds good we should totally pay someone to cancel subscriptions I mean there's no way we could automate something like that.
Considering all the other errors, it clearly can be an oversight.
Many things done and even released was poorly executed.
This clearly might be one of them.
What I have seen is often PR and Tech at odds on what was going to happen and when it would happen.
This could very well be another case of one department signing off on an idea that did not have feed back from other departments.
*shrugs*
I do not know if it was intentional or if somebody just thought it would be a good idea to have a chance to get people to change mind about quiting.
Seriously you can't be saying they did this on accident this is a blatant attempt to delay cancellations there's simply no other reason for it. can you seriously with a straight face imagine the conversation on this issue. So the auto renew function here is how it will work (Plug current auto renew ) and everyone at the table says ya that sounds good we should totally pay someone to cancel subscriptions I mean there's no way we could automate something like that.
I think they made a bad decision, viz "It's going to cost too much to develop an automated facility, and no one's going to care anyway so why waste the money. It'll be cheaper to have someone from accounting handle it." Often times a single exec can end up being the buckstop on that sort of thing. I've seen it happen. So, not an accident, but not fully considered either.
If they really wanted to AOL it, they'd have had it where people had to call them to give CS a chance to talk them out of cancelling.
I think they made a bad decision, viz "It's going to cost too much to develop an automated facility, and no one's going to care anyway so why waste the money. It'll be cheaper to have someone from accounting handle it." Often times a single exec can end up being the buckstop on that sort of thing. I've seen it happen. So, not an accident, but not fully considered either.
If they really wanted to AOL it, they'd have had it where people had to call them to give CS a chance to talk them out of cancelling.
It's not like it's something new and exiting it's a freaking button that cancels your subscription. I seriously cant believe there's someone out there stupid enough to think it would be more expensive than paying someone to do it for the next x years.
I dunno... Maybe there is something about Digital River that requires this. Maybe WotC is just following the example of another company without recognizing how much this decision would irritate some people. Maybe something else that we don't know about is influencing this from a technical standpoint.
This may not be an unethical decision, but it certainly does feel like one.
I don't know if it's a deliberate scam, but it's certainly a decision that's hard to explain. Why make extra work for yourselves if you don't need to.
FWIW, I was intending to give things a three month trial, and then look at a full year after that based on how the three months testing went. But if I'm going to have to risk my money on a manually processed auto renewal cancellation, then I'll save it and wait for back issues to become available if there's anything I want in them. Based on the overall performance to date, I'm not gambling my money on how well a cancellation works. I'm afraid that given how WotC has handled things so far I'd end up paying for two subscriptions.
I also don't believe it's a deliberate scam, merely an unfortunate oversight. I'd like to subscribe but won't, not until auto-renew can be canceled instantaneously (more likely) or there's a way to by-pass it altogether (less likely). Too uncomfortable, too many hassles to consider.
You bring up something that I haven't considered though: I can always buy back issues directly, without the hassle of subscribing and having to cancel auto-renew. Makes me feel better; I was afraid I was gonna have to miss out on the mags (at least the way things are set-up now).
Of course given the trend in site traffic ever during Gleemax's launch and subsequent crash and burn, he might be on to something with tons of people leaving and not coming back. I'd be really curious if the DDI launch (incomplete and late as it might be) might have changed the trend observed during the Gleemax period.
I don't deny that people leave and don't return - however that is a statement made by them in and of itself.
By leaving the forums/gleemax they're stating clearly that they aren't intersted in what WotC has to offer - or at least not interested enough to come to the forums.
That's a statement.
Until I came up with a work around I too would never subscribe to a service that forced auto-renew on enrollment and a customer service contact to cancel it. My solution? A Walmart VISA Gift Card with only enough money on it to enable the service one time. Oh, they can auto-renew me if they want... but it's not going to work.
Others have suggested this, I'm glad to see confirmation that it works.
Out of curiosity - are the cards you use rechargable? It seems that could be a great compromise. You get the card, you write what it's for and when the subscription ends with a sharpie, and file the card.
If/when it gets close to renewal time, you could then pull the card, add funds, and let auto-renew happen - but it gives you a "failsafe".
Out of curiosity - are the cards you use rechargable?
They are not, and there is a premium added to their value at purchase time, but I believe it's only 5%. My wife picked one up for me and I used it this morning to subscribe.
Until I came up with a work around I too would never subscribe to a service that forced auto-renew on enrollment and a customer service contact to cancel it. My solution? A Walmart VISA Gift Card with only enough money on it to enable the service one time. Oh, they can auto-renew me if they want... but it's not going to work.
Great idea. Definitely something I'm gonna consider. I really do want to subscribe, I just want to be confident that I pay only what I agree to.
Anyways, I know the OP quoted the FAQ but I think a direct link would be useful. How to stop auto-renew!.
I just wanted to pip in and say that I too was unable to subscribe without checking the auto-renewal. I'm not upset however, it took 30seconds to send the auto-renewal cancellation. That being said it is kind of weird that subscription works like that.
Anyways, I know the OP quoted the FAQ but I think a direct link would be useful. How to stop auto-renew!.
Hey, Lakoda, would you mind poping back in when you've recieved confirmation of the cancelation? Glad to know the process doesn't take long to initialize, I'm just curious how long it actually takes to finalize.
Seriously you can't be saying they did this on accident this is a blatant attempt to delay cancellations there's simply no other reason for it. can you seriously with a straight face imagine the conversation on this issue. So the auto renew function here is how it will work (Plug current auto renew ) and everyone at the table says ya that sounds good we should totally pay someone to cancel subscriptions I mean there's no way we could automate something like that.
Yes, I do believe that. If it were a "scam" then you would never get your money back. As for their mistake, it was thinking that this was how all subscription services do it and that nobody will mind.
Hey, Lakoda, would you mind popping back in when you've received confirmation of the cancellation? Glad to know the process doesn't take long to initialize, I'm just curious how long it actually takes to finalize.
Will do, I have received auto-confirmation that my request was received in under 5 minutes but I am still waiting on the actual response. Though I am in WI, 2 hours ahead of WotC, and I start work a bit earlier then most. As long as it is handled by the end of the day I'd call it a win!
Also I asked a question about whether or not auto-renewal would automatically charge me if the subscription price increased (such as when/if they raise it for the added functionality in the future). I doubt it would but I want an actual response. This may also delay my cancellation of auto-renew.
From listening to others, it seems (to me at least) that auto-renewal works best when it can be canceled instantaneously, no delay, and no human interaction. That's not the case here, unfortunately.
It's not like it's something new and exiting it's a freaking button that cancels your subscription. I seriously cant believe there's someone out there stupid enough to think it would be more expensive than paying someone to do it for the next x years.
But it's not like a "Generic Cancel Module" that you can just drop in to any system and have it work. The concept is not new or exciting, but it generally has to be fully implemented from scratch for each project. WotC doesn't share code with WoW.
A few hours in and still no response.
How the hell does DR not have such a feature? The initial auto-renew check box should have been optional but since it isn't and I'm pretty sure they have to allow you some mechanism to stop the auto-renew a more automated less person time solution should be ideal for everyone.
i believe this has nothing to do with DR. it's just a kink wotc wanted implemented, and so DR did what WOTC ordered. dr is a far more professional company than wotc when it comes to onlinebilling, they'd have never done such stuff without consent from wotc.
A few hours in and still no response.
According to the FAQ, it could take up to a couple of days. That seems a reasonable "turn-around", considering the human interaction. Still, a long time for a straight-forward cancelation, and "a couple of days" is kinda vague ;).
Thanks for the update, Lakoda. Also, to mudbunny, for bringing this thread to the attention of Solice.
It's the same crap I see with MMOs. The company does it's best as it sees it and delivers a product people like and when they act as a business (which is to make money) the community feels slighted and thinks the company is trying to ruin their game. Ultimately WotC has had lousy communication with the community...the blogs were a nice idea but we don't need to hear from devs (most of them have their own anyways) we want to here about the development and business decisions behind stuff not how the decision makes felt. The community wants to know that their trust isn't going to waste and that a seemingly poor decision was thought out and made for one reason or another. I think the community would be way more understand if WotC came out and said why the GSL is as it is and why the DDI subscriptions aren't out yet. The truth may be a blemish but at least it will be moved past and not become a rotten pit in peoples memory when they hit that subscription button or start flipping through splatt at their FLGS.
Now look at me, I got all off topic. Sorry.
To those looking to do the same thing, when you make the request be prepared to answer some follow up questions. I now have to verify my identity by answering the following.
First Name:
Last Name:
Date of Birth:
Security question: ******
Security Answer:
Zip Code:
They filled in my security question. Lapsed time: 5.75hrs Total effort: <5 minutes.
Done, I was able to cancel by auto-renew in less then a day with but a few minutes (<5) of effort on my part. The only struggle was that gleemax is really slow and some of the links to the customer service area from gleemax don't work so it took a little pocking to find the right round about path (you have to login to your gleemax account to access the customer service area).
Less than a day turn-around, not too bad ;). Hopefully your experience is a good indication of what subscribers can expect when canceling auto-renew.
For my part, I'm still gonna stick with the plan to buy back issues. Buying a MC/Visa gift card, so I can actually try things out, sounds okay too.
> First Name:
> Last Name:
> Date of Birth:
> Security question: (they state what question you gave them on account creation)
> Security Answer:
> Zip Code:
So I don't think it's that big an issue, honestly.
I went and purchased the subscription for a year, and then sent an customer service ticket asking them to cancel the auto-renewal. They sent an email saying that they will do so once I provide them with the following:
> First Name:
> Last Name:
> Date of Birth:
> Security question: (they state what question you gave them on account creation)
> Security Answer:
> Zip Code:
So I don't think it's that big an issue, honestly.
I agree, it's not really a big issue; a concern at most. It's just enough of a *potential* hassle though, that it might discourage potential subscribers (yeah, that's me ;)).
Note that this is not an accusation, I am not saying that that is what is being done, but I do recommend that you change this because I personally always think twice about making a purchase where I have less control over my options than I would like. I don't doubt that others feel likewise.
I got my response, at least to my request to stop auto-renew. No word about my actual question yet but that can wait.
To those looking to do the same thing, when you make the request be prepared to answer some follow up questions. I now have to verify my identity by answering the following.
First Name:
Last Name:
Date of Birth:
Security question: ******
Security Answer:
Zip Code:
They filled in my security question. Lapsed time: 5.75hrs Total effort: <5 minutes.
Thanks! That's the answer I was looking for.
Please check the 'I have read the Auto-Renewal Terms and Conditions' checkbox to continue with checkout.
This is very stupid of you... I think I'd prefer to control my own subscription rather than you. I might not be able to always afford it. So I might skip a month here and there... The last think I want is wizards ****ing with my bank account and possibly over drafting it. I don't trust you guys THAT much.
I know it says I control my auto-renewal... but that's not true at all. I'd rather forget to renew then forget my renewal is about to happen. I've had the same issue with using E-Z pass.
you might want to reread what i posted... I don't want to have to fill out a stupid form to tell them i don't want their **** anymore.
As seTiny has said, the complaint that you have is addressed in the thread.
For the time being, the auto-renewal cancellation form is the manner that has been chosen by WotC to handle people who no longer which to have their subscription automatically renew. If you had read the thread, like was suggested, you would see that the concerns have been brought up by myself to Solice (Community Manager).
As seTiny has said, the complaint that you have is addressed in the thread.
For the time being, the auto-renewal cancellation form is the manner that has been chosen by WotC to handle people who no longer which to have their subscription automatically renew. If you had read the thread, like was suggested, you would see that the concerns have been brought up by myself to Solice (Community Manager).
oddly enough i am reading and i haven't seen a single useful thing said by wizard to fix their ethical dilemma. Way to fail yet again...
Unfortunately I don't really have any information on why we set up auto-renew the way we did. We're definitely seeing everything you guys are posting here on the boards and in emails. I also send out a report to the DDI team every day that has the current auto-renew issues listed as our #1 customer concern.
So we definitely see the problem and we're dedicated to making the experience better for all of you. Just continue to let us know when you experience an issue and we'll jump on it.
Should be of interest to anyone following the thread.
Here's a quote from a supervisor on the Wizards of the Coast customer service team:
Should be of interest to anyone following the thread.
Awww, I was trying to find that quote. Curse you and your search-fu! (or.. decent memory. . . or whatever other sneaky tricks you have!)
Art: I'd like to subscribe but won't, not until ... there's a way to by-pass [auto-renew].
This.
DarkKarl: The last thing I want is wizards ***ing with my bank account.
And this.
Yes, I do believe that. If it were a "scam" then you would never get your money back. As for their mistake, it was thinking that this was how all subscription services do it and that nobody will mind.
once again no one cares that they use auto renew the scam is the implementation they have chose this stinks of AOL and Columbia House and a number of other disreputable companies.
So I'm happy to support my favorite game system and, while I think the PC only tools they're wasting (apparently) hundreds of thousands of dollars are on are... a total waste, I like the dragon and dungeon content, and the idea of a well maintained database of information.
And the idea that; it'll evolve and be improved. Especially if it encourages WotC to improve what they have instead of just churning out spaltbooks.
So I've subscribe to DDI.
But when you do it promises that, while you are forced to sign up for continous billing they will send an email that explains out to opt out.
Perhaps not surprising to anyone who's been near a marketer for any length of time the email includes no such thing.
Nor does the link.
I encourage you (and you really should do this no matter what, since it will take 2 seconds and potentially help prevent your credit card from being stolen if/when their database of credit card numbers is hacked) to go here and click on My Payment Information and delete your credit card info.
Wizards really shouldn't be collecting it anyway.
Since they are, but say you can opt out, and don't let you....
They obviously don't take management of it very seriously.
Interestingly, erasing your credit card info provides another way to avoid auto-renewal. If the info is erased, there's no way to be charged again. Is there ;)? If I'm mistaken, please let me know.
Here's a quote from ENWorld that should also be of interest:
Interestingly, erasing your credit card info provides another way to avoid auto-renewal. If the info is erased, there's no way to be charged again. Is there ;)? If I'm mistaken, please let me know.
Well if data file is retained, it really does not matter if user says do not display.
DR and/or WotC already have your payment record, as such unless you (as a user) say cancel it likely does not matter if you remove account information. They know it already.
Lapsed time: 5.75hrs Total effort: <5 minutes.
I can go you one better, Lakoda. Total time to cancel my auto-renew: 2 hours and 19 minutes.
:D
http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1431
A detailed listing of auto-renewal policy and cancellation procedure has been added to the FAQ.
http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1431
How about an answer to why auto renew is required one of these days?
Or why auto cancel is not offered?
I can go you one better, Lakoda. Total time to cancel my auto-renew: 2 hours and 19 minutes.
:D
Nice!
This webpage has a redirect loop.
The webpage at https://accounts.gleemax.com/AMLogin.aspx has resulted in too many redirects. Clearing your cookies for this site may fix the problem. If not, it is possibly a server configuration issue and not a problem with your computer.
Here are some suggestions:
Reload this web page later.
More information on this error
Below is the original error message
Error 310 (net::ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS): There were too many redirects.
I am going to have to call them directly to get my account canceled and if that fails next stop is the credit card company and have them freeze any withdrawls from this company.
Try to reload it a few times (not good but should be possible)
I tried this numerous times. Are you able to load the page? and does it work for you? I know its not my PC or my browsers.
Im still waiting for feedback about the autorenewal.
Im eager to pay for the D&DI online material, but I wont pay until I can bypass the coercive autorenewals.
Personally, my hope is to purchase a three-month subscription, and after that, Im more interested in upgrading to an annual subscription (because its cheaper, and Id be voluntarily renewing anyway). A coercive three-month autorenew would be a quasi-criminal nuissance in every way!
Get rid of the compulsory autorenew!
True or not, my impression is the corporation, WotC, is kind of "Dr Jeckel and Mr Hide".
The Dr Jeckel is the amazing staff of artists and developers. The Mr Hide is the amoral business staff.
Part of WotC I trust. Another part of WotC Im learning not to trust.
Fix these problems. They are serious issues for many in the gaming community who care about ethics.
WotC STILL hasnt fixed the problem of coercive autorenewal!
True or not, my impression is the corporation, WotC, is kind of "Dr Jeckel and Mr Hide".
The Dr Jeckel is the amazing staff of artists and developers. The Mr Hide is the amoral business staff.
Part of WotC I trust. Another part of WotC Im learning not to trust.
Fix these problems. They are serious issues for many in the gaming community who care about ethics.
They are expecting to have this fixed once the game table is up and running :D
At the end I get "Thank you for your purchase. Your order is currently being processed. You will receive an email shortly confirming your purchase and including delivery information".
In the mean time i filled in the form to stop auto-renewal and get a completely unreasonable reply wanting me to answer questions to verify who I am. (It's completely unreasonable because it's so bleeding obvious that it's me wanting to stop auto-renewal, not some impostor.)
Long story short- a few hours have passed and now it says "cancelled by system" with no explanation.
I consider this a positive outcome and will not be re-trying.
Worst payment processing site I've ever seen.
Sorry you've had this problem, but hopefully we can work through this.
I happily subscribed to DDi for a full year, but I admit I'm not a fan of ANY auto-renewal process.
The very few auto-renewal processes I've encountered so far have all had very simple, and straight forward, "auto cancel" auto-renewal features. Usually, it comes in the form of a simple button/link under a user profile type page.
When I first signed up to DDi, this was the first thing I searched for, and I found it (so I thought).
Going here, after my initial sign up: https://store.digitalriver.com/store/dndi/DisplayHelpPage
Then click the "My Payment Information" link, I found that my Credit Card was being kept "on file". I deleted my billing information from this section and now, no credit card information appears at all.
Are you telling me that I will still be auto-billed at the end of my year and that Wizards is keeping my credit card data in some other internal server even after I removed it via their own control panel? My logic was, how can you auto-bill me when you don't have my credit card data on file?
Am I still going to have to fill out a form to actual remove auto-renewal?
Unethical tactics that exploit children is bad business.
Many WotC customers are minors.
Unethical tactics that exploit children is bad business.
Most online services of this type have a clause in the ToS stating that you have to be 18 to use the service (I can't find that DDI TOS at the moment to see if WotC includes that clause).
That you have to use a credit card (at the moment) to create a DDI account, that's further indication that the account holder is an adult (as you must be 18 to get a credit card).
Many WotC customers are minors.
Unethical tactics that exploit children is bad business.
Part 1 of the Member User Agreement:
[indent]1. Children and Minors: Charged Offerings provided through the Program are available only to individuals 18 years of age or older (“Adult”) or, in an Adult’s discretion, their child (through parental or guardianship relationship) (“Child”), provided their Child is less than 18 years of age and at least 13 years of age (“Minor”).[/indent]
Here's an interesting question about the whole auto-renewal process:
I happily subscribed to DDi for a full year, but I admit I'm not a fan of ANY auto-renewal process.
The very few auto-renewal processes I've encountered so far have all had very simple, and straight forward, "auto cancel" auto-renewal features. Usually, it comes in the form of a simple button/link under a user profile type page.
When I first signed up to DDi, this was the first thing I searched for, and I found it (so I thought).
Going here, after my initial sign up: https://store.digitalriver.com/store/dndi/DisplayHelpPage
Then click the "My Payment Information" link, I found that my Credit Card was being kept "on file". I deleted my billing information from this section and now, no credit card information appears at all.
Are you telling me that I will still be auto-billed at the end of my year and that Wizards is keeping my credit card data in some other internal server even after I removed it via their own control panel? My logic was, how can you auto-bill me when you don't have my credit card data on file?
Am I still going to have to fill out a form to actual remove auto-renewal?
I do not know how the server is set up to retain data, however in business records of credit card used will remain even if it is no longer displayed on your web account. I do not know what WotC will do with those that agreed to auto renwew (Yes I know you needed to agree to it, that is another issue) and did not cancel, however removed CC number.
I see two possibilities, they will not auto renew because you removed credit card from your account for billing information
OR
they will rebill the last credit card on record because you did not provide a new card in your account, however did not cancel auto renew.
I would advise go though the process to cancel the auto renew sooner, rather later on the chance the second might occur. Until some more time passes it clearly is hard to know how effective the cancel auto renew is or removing credit card only information works. After all we are only about 35 days after going to pay, only those that signed up for a month would start seeing results of their choices..
Hopefully, the cancelation has only been delayed by a day (or so). Hopefully, they haven't already charged my credit card for the next month. Gotta be careful to watch my bank statements to make sure though. If they've actually auto-renewed my account (after being asked not to), I will not subscribe again.
According to the email from CS, auto-renew was canceled for my account. My monthly subscription was scheduled to end on 11-17. As of 6:00 a.m. on 11-18, I'm still able to log-in and access Insider content.
Hopefully, the cancelation has only been delayed by a day (or so). Hopefully, they haven't already charged my credit card for the next month. Gotta be careful to watch my bank statements to make sure though. If they've actually auto-renewed my account (after being asked not to), I will not subscribe again.
When did you submit the auto-renewal cancellation?
When did you submit the auto-renewal cancellation?
The same day I signed up (a month ago).
The fact my account hasn't been canceled already has me concerned. Now I have to watch my account balances even that much closer. I would like the ability to subscribe occassionally without having to worry.
I will pass on the info to Solice, so she can find out what is going on.
let's hope he's getting a freebie or wotc only ends accounts at the end of one month due to a software error.
real billing errors very often impact the public view of a not-yet-completely running system more than late software/patches or incomplete articles.#
[money is more important to most of us than a view hours of time]
1. Children and Minors: Charged Offerings provided through the Program are available only to individuals 18 years of age or older (“Adult”) or, in an Adult’s discretion, their child (through parental or guardianship relationship) (“Child”), provided their Child is less than 18 years of age and at least 13 years of age (“Minor”).
Obviously, WotC can hide behind this legal fiction. But we all know its untrue.
Children often use their parents credit cards - with or without parental supervision. Children often dont understand the full implications of their actions, or often dont care even if they do understand.
D&D inherently targets teenagers as customers. It has a special duty to avoid exploitative business practices.
From what I gather, heavy-handed business tactics is precisely what killed TSR.
Balance aggressive business with social responsibility. It can be done!
Why has it dragged on?!
Apparently, predatory greed is why.
If Digital Rivers doesnt have the capacity to avoid coercive auto-renewal, it doesnt have the capacity to handle my credit cards. Lacking coercive auto-renewal is the standard. Get a new outsource that can do it.
Obviously, WotC can hide behind this legal fiction. But we all know its untrue.
Children often use their parents credit cards - with or without parental supervision. Children often dont understand the full implications of their actions, or often dont care even if they do understand.
D&D inherently targets teenagers as customers. It has a special duty to avoid exploitative business practices.
Accepting a credit card for payment has been shown as an effective way of demonstrating that the account holder is a legal adult. This is the same mechanism used by most all online retailers.
I believe this is even a government standard (as I seem to recall the issue being raised in other debates I've followed), and if I can find the language including it (I'll try the Dept of Commerce) I'll include it here later.
If kids are using their parent's cards without permission, that's a discipline problem for the parents, not for WotC.
Don't misunderstan. I'd prefer it if the option truly existed as intended, so that a user could sign up for one subscription term at a time if they so desire, but I don't fault WotC for using the same standards of age verification as other online companies.
[EDIT]
Found it, it's an FTC standard:
Access Verification
At a parent's request, operators must disclose the general kinds of personal information they collect online from children (for example, name, address, telephone number, email address, hobbies), as well as the specific information collected from children who visit their sites. Operators must use reasonable procedures to ensure they are dealing with the child's parent before they provide access to the child's specific information.
They can use a variety of methods to verify the parent's identity, including:
obtaining a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile;
accepting and verifying a credit card number;
taking calls from parents on a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnel;
email accompanied by digital signature;
email accompanied by a PIN or password obtained through one of the verification methods above.
Operators who follow one of these procedures acting in good faith to a request for parental access are protected from liability under federal and state law for inadvertent disclosures of a child's information to someone who purports to be a parent.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/idtheft/bus45.shtm
The same day I signed up (a month ago).
The fact my account hasn't been canceled already has me concerned. Now I have to watch my account balances even that much closer. I would like the ability to subscribe occassionally without having to worry.
I checked on this, you should be just fine. You are currently in a grace period, your account should not be charged again. Let me know if it does and I will go kick people in the knee.
Obviously, WotC can hide behind this legal fiction. But we all know its untrue.
Children often use their parents credit cards - with or without parental supervision. Children often dont understand the full implications of their actions, or often dont care even if they do understand.
D&D inherently targets teenagers as customers. It has a special duty to avoid exploitative business practices.
Kids using their parents CCs without permission isn't something that WOtC needs to try to prevent. That is a parenting problem, not a advertising problem. The rules that WotC has in place are essentially the same as those of Blizzard (WoW) and pretty much every other MMO out there. The XBox Live ToS are the same.
I recieved an email from CS, saying I needed to provide my first and last name (already provided in my initial email), my security question ("what is the make of your first car?") and the answer (which I don't know). Edit: I didn't have to answer any security questions to get auto-renew canceled last month (on my previous subscription).
Apparently, I didn't pay enough attention when filling out the security question answer; actually, I don't even remember it coming up. Gonna be a real hassle getting auto-renewal canceled without knowing the answer. My fault though, I am a fool.
You've lost a longtime reader of Dragon Magazine. This is too much hassle and I won't be asking for it again.
How do I reset my security question? There must be a way but I've checked the DDi FAQ and don't see an answer. I can't take full responsibility for my account without it.
I'm still extremely frustrated by the service from Insider. I do enjoy the article content however; I want to continue as a customer but auto-renew tries my patience to the limit. It should be quick and automatic, no human interaction.
Human interaction was the problem this time: I made the mistake of not making record of my security question answer; and customer service was not consistent-- requiring a security question this time but not previously.
I kinda figure that's gonna have to happen but I was hoping not. Sigh!! Again, a hassle. I've got to vent while I'm here ;):
I am willing to subscribe and be a part of D&D Insider. I'm not prepared to make an extended commitment but I am willing to check things out month-to-month; that should be my option. Each month I subscribe however, I must have auto-renewal canceled (otherwise I get charged again next month, which I may not be willing for). This is an extreme hassle for what should otherwise be a straight-forward and simple proceedure.
Here are some things I'm concerned about when it comes to the service side of D&D Insider:
Is my account in a grace period, or did they forget to cancel and auto-renew me for next month? A grace period is nice but not if I'm kept guessing. As a month-to-month subsriber, I hate guessing.
I had to deal with two people (this time) to get auto-renew canceled. That's too many. This time I had to answer a security question but not last time. The service is inconsistent. Auto-renew shouldn't be *cohersive*. Failing that however, canceling it should be instaneous (no waiting) and no human interaction (no guessing).
Security questions are an added layer of protection (which is nice) but I don't want to be locked out of my account by some mishap. As I see things, they should only come up when I want to auto-renew (be charged again), not when I simply want to cancel the "cohersive" auto-renew. It becomes too much of a hassle otherwise; why hassle your customers?
Thanks for letting me get it all off my chest ;).
I've heard from Solice directly, and via Randy's weekly newsletter that they are working on improving the auto-renewal situation, so that it will be an automated process. Unfortunately, they have higher priorities, so its not being worked on at this moment. Hopefully, soon though.
Its not as convenient, but it works.
Some issues I have: There's no way to subscribe without also accepting auto-renew. I must make the effort to have auto-renew canceled (I have no choice). Cancelation is not instanteous and requires human interaction. WotC is currently working on making auto-renew less of an issue.
To download and open Insider content, I have to use a work-around: First, I open the "See It Now" link, then I open "Save As"; then, I close the menu. Then, I open "See It Now" (yes, again), click on "Save As" and save normally. If I don't take this work-around, the file opens as gibberish (has something to do with getting past an "asp" page). This is a noted problem that WotC is aware of (see Digital Insider #12 for details).
All of these hassles are apparently being worked on in the backround; they are not priorities. I'm all for setting priorities but they are driving me crazy. Such burdensome service detracts from what is otherwise a fine effort (the Insider articles).
Almost every week, we get news in the weekly newsletter telling us about something that we complained about here on the forums that got fixed. So keep on complaining about the things you don't like. They will get fixed.
Forgive me for being an optimist.
Forgive me for being an optimist.
Sure, it is always good to have something to hope for.
As to the issue, security question, it strikes me as unlikely a phone call would work. Hey I could call in and said I forgot password and security guestion as long as I know email address.
An email appears the best way to deal with the issue, because not having (Inane) security answer it appears less likely CustServ will be of great assistance though their submit form, however you should be able to email somebody directly working for DR or WotX to get accouct ordered.
Yep. Its pretty clear that WotC is not a website development company. Their list of mistakes is pretty long. But you can say that they are working at it, and they are getting better.
investing a bit more of money, so a company who is fit at developing such things does the dirty work, would have been a much better approach for wotc. (as always). the price of delaying a product that long, and having so much bugs to fix (which also costs money) is certainly in the same league of costs as having the whole website compendium bonus tools etc built out of house by a 3rd party company.
I'm interested in DDi but the auto-renewal thing is putting me off a little. I'm a lazy dude and I'm not sure I want the hassle of sorting this out. It does seem that the only reason WotC put in a 'forced' autorenewal was to get a little extra out of people - to sort of lock a few people in for a little bit longer. Dodgy, dodgy.