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automated rules adjudication question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sungrey
Jul 08, 2008 23:44:09 In the D&D Game Table section, it says the Game Table will not have automated rules adjudication, which I take to mean that it will not be a simulator. But will there be options in the future for making the Game Table more simulator-like for DM's who are bad at manually keeping track of combat stuff? Thanks!
#2
WolfStar76
Jul 09, 2008 6:13:54 For various reasons, no.

Keep in mind the 4E is "exception based". Sure, there are a few simple rules (Humans move 6 squares on their turn), but there are many exceptions to those rules (when running move +2 squares).

To allow for all those options the Game Table would have to be pretty complex, perhaps annoyingly so. Players would have to have a plethora of menus to cover EVERY possible action (Run, Shift, Charge, Teleport, etc). Even then, there will be times when the GM or player decides that there's a circumstance in place to modify those rules.

If the Game Table did any adjucation, it would have to do it "by the letter" - giving very little of the flexibility that most of us enjoy from D&D.

Not all is lost, however.

There are a few different ways to track things in the Game Table. The table will help you count squares of movement (so you can verify how far you're moving before you make the move). There are status markers that circle the tokens/minis to display assorted status effects (bloodied, stunned, etc).

So it will make a few things easier to track through visual indicators, but it won't adjucate for you (no forcing save rolls, it won't auto-deduct x hp/round for ongoing damage, etc).
#3
hellmute
Jul 09, 2008 8:07:57 Hasbro does not own the right to make digital games, someone else does, so WotC cannot have any rules implementation or automation in place.
#4
thax
Jul 09, 2008 22:11:15 Hasbro owns the D&D game, through Wizards. They have every right. Just because the typically give those rights to more qualified developers in the past (like Bioware and such) doesn't mean that they never had them.
#5
Kentinal
Jul 09, 2008 22:22:06
Hasbro owns the D&D game, through Wizards. They have every right. Just because the typically give those rights to more qualified developers in the past (like Bioware and such) doesn't mean that they never had them.

Well WotC staff indicated they do not have a legal right to program D&D. That right appears to have been sold or is under a long term license of some kind. *shrugs*
#6
snarky_monkey
Jul 10, 2008 10:01:23
Well WotC staff indicated they do not have a legal right to program D&D. That right appears to have been sold or is under a long term license of some kind. *shrugs*

Yep, that seems to be the case. Of course, that doesn't prevent them from releasing "DM Tools" to help adjudicate situations, such as they are with their initiative tracker and such. What I would really like to see is a line of sight/effect tool where you click an icon and then a target and it tells you if either is applicable. In a 3D virtual environment, this should be very feasible.
#7
thax
Jul 10, 2008 20:03:17 Just because they sold some rights for electronic gaming to someone (most likely Atari, NWN and all) doesn't mean they can't do anything with their own properties. I knew Wizards had already approved a 4th edition game that will come out sometime in 2009, but there shouldn't be anything to stop them from using their own properties in a table top enviroment.

Possibly the thing stopping them is the want to make a Vmini's game, and that should be proposed to the developer that has the Digital Rights so they can produce it. This should be completely different than the DDi service, and not be attached to it.
#8
mudbunny
Jul 10, 2008 22:04:41 You aren't understanding.

WotC does not have the right to make any digital D&D game. The license for those games is owned by someone else. If they were to make a digital game, they would get sued, and they would more than likely lose.
#9
thax
Jul 10, 2008 22:15:57
You aren't understanding.

WotC does not have the right to make any digital D&D game. The license for those games is owned by someone else. If they were to make a digital game, they would get sued, and they would more than likely lose.

They own the original material.

This seems like the Spider-Man woes and why it took so long to produce the first film.

Any idea who has those rights?
#10
mudbunny
Jul 10, 2008 22:18:14 They own the rights to table-top roleplaying versions of D&D.

Electronic versions, nope.

As for who...No idea.
#11
Kentinal
Jul 10, 2008 23:09:57
They own the original material.

This seems like the Spider-Man woes and why it took so long to produce the first film.

Any idea who has those rights?

Best guess Electronic Arts, renamed(?) EA International (Studio and Publishing) Ltd.

http://www.bioware.com/legal/copyright.html provides copyright and trademark list of companies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sungrey Jul 08, 2008 23:44:09	In the D&D Game Table section, it says the Game Table will not have automated rules adjudication, which I take to mean that it will not be a simulator. But will there be options in the future for making the Game Table more simulator-like for DM's who are bad at manually keeping track of combat stuff? Thanks!
#2 WolfStar76 Jul 09, 2008 6:13:54	For various reasons, no. Keep in mind the 4E is "exception based". Sure, there are a few simple rules (Humans move 6 squares on their turn), but there are many exceptions to those rules (when running move +2 squares). To allow for all those options the Game Table would have to be pretty complex, perhaps annoyingly so. Players would have to have a plethora of menus to cover EVERY possible action (Run, Shift, Charge, Teleport, etc). Even then, there will be times when the GM or player decides that there's a circumstance in place to modify those rules. If the Game Table did any adjucation, it would have to do it "by the letter" - giving very little of the flexibility that most of us enjoy from D&D. Not all is lost, however. There are a few different ways to track things in the Game Table. The table will help you count squares of movement (so you can verify how far you're moving before you make the move). There are status markers that circle the tokens/minis to display assorted status effects (bloodied, stunned, etc). So it will make a few things easier to track through visual indicators, but it won't adjucate for you (no forcing save rolls, it won't auto-deduct x hp/round for ongoing damage, etc).
#3 hellmute Jul 09, 2008 8:07:57	Hasbro does not own the right to make digital games, someone else does, so WotC cannot have any rules implementation or automation in place.
#4 thax Jul 09, 2008 22:11:15	Hasbro owns the D&D game, through Wizards. They have every right. Just because the typically give those rights to more qualified developers in the past (like Bioware and such) doesn't mean that they never had them.
#5 Kentinal Jul 09, 2008 22:22:06	Hasbro owns the D&D game, through Wizards. They have every right. Just because the typically give those rights to more qualified developers in the past (like Bioware and such) doesn't mean that they never had them. Well WotC staff indicated they do not have a legal right to program D&D. That right appears to have been sold or is under a long term license of some kind. shrugs
#6 snarky_monkey Jul 10, 2008 10:01:23	Well WotC staff indicated they do not have a legal right to program D&D. That right appears to have been sold or is under a long term license of some kind. shrugs Yep, that seems to be the case. Of course, that doesn't prevent them from releasing "DM Tools" to help adjudicate situations, such as they are with their initiative tracker and such. What I would really like to see is a line of sight/effect tool where you click an icon and then a target and it tells you if either is applicable. In a 3D virtual environment, this should be very feasible.
#7 thax Jul 10, 2008 20:03:17	Just because they sold some rights for electronic gaming to someone (most likely Atari, NWN and all) doesn't mean they can't do anything with their own properties. I knew Wizards had already approved a 4th edition game that will come out sometime in 2009, but there shouldn't be anything to stop them from using their own properties in a table top enviroment. Possibly the thing stopping them is the want to make a Vmini's game, and that should be proposed to the developer that has the Digital Rights so they can produce it. This should be completely different than the DDi service, and not be attached to it.
#8 mudbunny Jul 10, 2008 22:04:41	You aren't understanding. WotC does not have the right to make any digital D&D game. The license for those games is owned by someone else. If they were to make a digital game, they would get sued, and they would more than likely lose.
#9 thax Jul 10, 2008 22:15:57	You aren't understanding. WotC does not have the right to make any digital D&D game. The license for those games is owned by someone else. If they were to make a digital game, they would get sued, and they would more than likely lose. They own the original material. This seems like the Spider-Man woes and why it took so long to produce the first film. Any idea who has those rights?
#10 mudbunny Jul 10, 2008 22:18:14	They own the rights to table-top roleplaying versions of D&D. Electronic versions, nope. As for who...No idea.
#11 Kentinal Jul 10, 2008 23:09:57	They own the original material. This seems like the Spider-Man woes and why it took so long to produce the first film. Any idea who has those rights? Best guess Electronic Arts, renamed(?) EA International (Studio and Publishing) Ltd. http://www.bioware.com/legal/copyright.html provides copyright and trademark list of companies.