Barbarian Changes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Barbarian Changes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jamesmcmurray
Nov 18, 2008 11:49:27 In today's article they mention some changes for the Barbarian, including modifying their desire for heavy armor, and changing Thunderhawk Rage.

Is there any way we can find out what these changes were? I've got a player about to run a barbarian in my epic game, and he's aiming for Iron Vanguard + Thunderhawk Rage while wearing plate.

Knowing the other changes would be interesting as well, but don't immediately impact our game (though I'm sure they impact lots of others).

Thanks!
#2
kouk
Nov 18, 2008 12:19:04 I think we're gonna have to wait for the PHB2 for anything else about Barbarians.
#3
jamesmcmurray
Nov 18, 2008 12:20:46 I think so too, but it never hurts to ask.
#4
Mock
Nov 18, 2008 13:54:21 Yah, the news article is a repost of a forum post here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=17237654&postcount=142

A teaser - I'm intently curious as to what they changed - but I think that's all we're gonna get.
#5
the8bitdeity
Nov 18, 2008 15:14:55 personally I would have preferred more iterations. If you're going to call it a playtest, offer multiple iterations and fixes. Let the Insiders see the actual changes, and test them in play. I've got a level 3 barbarian, and he's really tempted to go heavy armor route, I'd really like a good reason for him not too.
#6
fleetfang
Nov 18, 2008 15:49:26 James,
I also have to think that we've seen what we're going to see. It's great that they are clearly taking the player feedback to heart and fixing the glaring faults that we've called them out on.

as for your epic game, since you're the DM and you've got a good idea of what they are altering in the Barbarian right now, I suggest houseruling a "best guess" as to what they might do to change the class.

Maybe give them a flat +2 or +3 to AC while wearing light armor.
Give Thunderhawk rage (potential) victims a saving throw to not get knocked down.

Since WotC has admitted that they are changing things, and for good reasons, your player shouldn't have a problem with your "patches."
Then, when PH2 comes out, have him rebuild the barbarian according to the true class as finalized.
#7
the8bitdeity
Nov 18, 2008 17:11:21
James,
Maybe give them a flat +2 or +3 to AC while wearing light armor.
Give Thunderhawk rage (potential) victims a saving throw to not get knocked down.

I'm not sure a flat AC bonus is the way to go, as at higher levels it wouldn't scale with masterwork armor concepts. It needs to be a thematic aspect that scales with all tiers of play.

As for the prone aspect, I think it's something like that, although it essentially steps on the dwarf's toes a bit. Would a dwarf then get a bonus to not go prone? Or a second saving throw?
#8
elwyndas
Nov 18, 2008 17:39:26 It never hurts to send the author James Wyatt (lead designer) a personal email about this.
A revised playtest should also include feats.
#9
kouk
Nov 18, 2008 22:24:59 With some of the things we've noticed about the Barbarian, I wish they'd also open up the other classes for playtest.

They don't have as much time for internal testing now that 4th edition is out there.
#10
Kentinal
Nov 18, 2008 22:46:21
With some of the things we've noticed about the Barbarian, I wish they'd also open up the other classes for playtest.

They don't have as much time for internal testing now that 4th edition is out there.

*shrugs* They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online.
#11
kouk
Nov 18, 2008 23:06:29
*shrugs* They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online.

Sure they can errata things as much as they want, but that's really a PITA for everyone who owns the books to have incomplete and/or dysfunctional rules unless you print out reams of errata.
#12
Alter_Boy
Nov 18, 2008 23:19:49 Keep in mind that there was 9 months between 4ed's release and PHB2's release, so there wasn't a lot of time to preview all the classes in it. Also, I can surmise that the Barbarian had perhaps a few different class structures (basing this on the delay) and WotC was genuinely concerned that the Barbarian wouldn't be fun.

Given that WotC is already promising to playtest items from AV2 (due out in Aug. '09), I think we can see a lot more classes be previewed for PHB3, when we have an entire year in-between iterations.
#13
WolfStar76
Nov 19, 2008 6:02:31
*shrugs* They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online.

I've never heard them say there will be no 5th. To the contrary, I'm fairly certain I've seen/heard it said that 4th edition has an expected 10-year lifespan.

I agree on the 4.5, however.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jamesmcmurray Nov 18, 2008 11:49:27	In today's article they mention some changes for the Barbarian, including modifying their desire for heavy armor, and changing Thunderhawk Rage. Is there any way we can find out what these changes were? I've got a player about to run a barbarian in my epic game, and he's aiming for Iron Vanguard + Thunderhawk Rage while wearing plate. Knowing the other changes would be interesting as well, but don't immediately impact our game (though I'm sure they impact lots of others). Thanks!
#2 kouk Nov 18, 2008 12:19:04	I think we're gonna have to wait for the PHB2 for anything else about Barbarians.
#3 jamesmcmurray Nov 18, 2008 12:20:46	I think so too, but it never hurts to ask.
#4 Mock Nov 18, 2008 13:54:21	Yah, the news article is a repost of a forum post here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=17237654&postcount=142 A teaser - I'm intently curious as to what they changed - but I think that's all we're gonna get.
#5 the8bitdeity Nov 18, 2008 15:14:55	personally I would have preferred more iterations. If you're going to call it a playtest, offer multiple iterations and fixes. Let the Insiders see the actual changes, and test them in play. I've got a level 3 barbarian, and he's really tempted to go heavy armor route, I'd really like a good reason for him not too.
#6 fleetfang Nov 18, 2008 15:49:26	James, I also have to think that we've seen what we're going to see. It's great that they are clearly taking the player feedback to heart and fixing the glaring faults that we've called them out on. as for your epic game, since you're the DM and you've got a good idea of what they are altering in the Barbarian right now, I suggest houseruling a "best guess" as to what they might do to change the class. Maybe give them a flat +2 or +3 to AC while wearing light armor. Give Thunderhawk rage (potential) victims a saving throw to not get knocked down. Since WotC has admitted that they are changing things, and for good reasons, your player shouldn't have a problem with your "patches." Then, when PH2 comes out, have him rebuild the barbarian according to the true class as finalized.
#7 the8bitdeity Nov 18, 2008 17:11:21	James, Maybe give them a flat +2 or +3 to AC while wearing light armor. Give Thunderhawk rage (potential) victims a saving throw to not get knocked down. I'm not sure a flat AC bonus is the way to go, as at higher levels it wouldn't scale with masterwork armor concepts. It needs to be a thematic aspect that scales with all tiers of play. As for the prone aspect, I think it's something like that, although it essentially steps on the dwarf's toes a bit. Would a dwarf then get a bonus to not go prone? Or a second saving throw?
#8 elwyndas Nov 18, 2008 17:39:26	It never hurts to send the author James Wyatt (lead designer) a personal email about this. A revised playtest should also include feats.
#9 kouk Nov 18, 2008 22:24:59	With some of the things we've noticed about the Barbarian, I wish they'd also open up the other classes for playtest. They don't have as much time for internal testing now that 4th edition is out there.
#10 Kentinal Nov 18, 2008 22:46:21	With some of the things we've noticed about the Barbarian, I wish they'd also open up the other classes for playtest. They don't have as much time for internal testing now that 4th edition is out there. shrugs They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online.
#11 kouk Nov 18, 2008 23:06:29	shrugs They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online. Sure they can errata things as much as they want, but that's really a PITA for everyone who owns the books to have incomplete and/or dysfunctional rules unless you print out reams of errata.
#12 Alter_Boy Nov 18, 2008 23:19:49	Keep in mind that there was 9 months between 4ed's release and PHB2's release, so there wasn't a lot of time to preview all the classes in it. Also, I can surmise that the Barbarian had perhaps a few different class structures (basing this on the delay) and WotC was genuinely concerned that the Barbarian wouldn't be fun. Given that WotC is already promising to playtest items from AV2 (due out in Aug. '09), I think we can see a lot more classes be previewed for PHB3, when we have an entire year in-between iterations.
#13 WolfStar76 Nov 19, 2008 6:02:31	shrugs They can always change them later. There will be no 4.5 or 5th so they say, thus all classes and races will be subject to modification as they bring new classes and races online. I've never heard them say there will be no 5th. To the contrary, I'm fairly certain I've seen/heard it said that 4th edition has an expected 10-year lifespan. I agree on the 4.5, however.