Bordrin's Watch plot clarification *Spoilers* - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bordrin's Watch plot clarification *Spoilers*

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
paulos
Feb 02, 2009 21:27:09 The module says the Farstriders are assigned the dangerous duty of clearing and sealing the tunnels that emerge under Bordrin's Watch itself. But then how do their horses get to be outside of the Vents? Am I missing something?

All tunnels connect to the Nexus right? Did they go through and ... no that doesn't explain the horses.
#2
Misroi
Feb 03, 2009 0:14:56 Yep, it's a plot inconsistency, at least the way I read it. When I ran it, I changed the mission parameters slightly. The Farstriders had to go to the Vents to close things up, the PCs got the Monastery duty, and the Freeriders got to travel around the surrounding villages and bring everyone back to Overlook. All three groups went to a spot that would be the rendezvous point, and told to return when they had finished their missions. That way, when the Farstriders don't show up, there's a nagging fear. These guys are the heroes in the Elsir Vale right now, and they couldn't handle whatever was down in those tunnels.

Plus, it explains the horses.

Although, MAAAAAAYBE they planned on going down into the Nexus, then leaving through the big doors and getting up through the Vents, where the dwarves kindly provided mounts for a speedy travel to Bordrin's Watch. Of course, that begs the question: how did they plan to use the control panel and get out while the room filled with water?
#3
thellaren
Feb 04, 2009 12:10:24
The module says the Farstriders are assigned the dangerous duty of clearing and sealing the tunnels that emerge under Bordrin's Watch itself. But then how do their horses get to be outside of the Vents? Am I missing something?

All tunnels connect to the Nexus right? Did they go through and ... no that doesn't explain the horses.

The Nexus is pretty much directly under Overlook (the Farstriders are described as dealing with the tunnels under Overlook, so that's where it has to be). The only known way to get to the Nexus is via the steam vents, 40 miles away.
#4
paulos
Feb 04, 2009 12:30:59 I wondered if that was the case. So the AP pulls through without at least this alledged inconsistancy.

That works great for me. Thanks Thellaren.
#5
thellaren
Feb 04, 2009 19:37:30 Do, however, bear in mind that there's no way the Farstriders could have made it out to the vents, then back on foot through the underdark, in the time allowed.
#6
thellaren
Feb 04, 2009 20:23:05 Do, however, bear in mind that there's no way the Farstriders could have made it out to the vents, then back on foot through the underdark, in the time allowed.
#7
bathuri
Feb 05, 2009 6:09:15 While I agree to plot inconsistency, I thought the Nexus was beneath Bordrin's Watch and not Overlook. On page 41 of the module it says:

V1. Entering the Vents
Beyond the mazelike Vents is the buried passage, a
hidden route through the mountains beneath Bordrin’s
Watch far above. Opening onto the rest of the
complex is a simple antechamber, shrouded in mist.

I actually planned to have the escape hatch in the Nexus open up to Bordrin's Watch, but gave it up as I could not explain why they did not go down that way in the first place, but had to walk through the dangerous Vents for miles and miles.

Of course the inconsistencies can probably be found with the module itself - it might say 'beneath Overlook' somewhere else in the module.
#8
greywolf411
Apr 12, 2009 15:08:55 There is simply no good way to explain why on earth you wouldn't just go through the top hatch of the Nexus. The fact that the Nexus is below, either Bordrin's Watch or Overlook is also odd due to their distance from the Vents, as stated ~40 miles. Then of course there are the other tunnels that connect to the Nexus that lead off beyond to the other side of the mountain. Hence the reason the Orcs want through via the tunnels versus going through the pass that Bordrin's Watch blocks.

It would seem that the top hatch opens up somewhere into a chamber that is still in the mountain, seeing as the vents are much farther down in elevation than that of Bordrin's watch, which is stated to be above the Nexus. However, that isn't mentioned, so you have to assume the hatch just pops you out on the surface somewhere either near Bordrin's Watch or perhaps a few miles away. Again, why someone didn't just go through the hatch is beyond me.

I've been trying to reconcile this in my mind for awhile now before my players get there, and while they may not even be something they think about it bugs me to no end.

If you created some sort of room or something above the nexus that allowed people to move to above the hallway before the doors and drop back down that would be something worth adding. As it stands I also wonder how in the dwarves end up getting the water back out. I'm going to be mentioning drains n' such that are visible at the base floor of the nexus.
#9
thellaren
Apr 13, 2009 0:03:28 The dwarven method of exit security demonstrated at the monastery by Kalad usually involves not being able to use the tunnel any more; both the one he collapsed and the one that was guarded by autoblasters were pretty impassable (at least, for minions...). They did go to a great deal of effort to make a boiling water trap that would flood the nexus; I'm not sure why they didn't just rig all the connecting tunnels to collapse instead.

My party noted the exit hatch at the top, checked it out to make sure it didn't have any treasure, then went back to the first room where they fought the shadar kai, activated the flooding trap and beat feet back to the steam vents. The idea of climbing up into unknown territory an unknown distance from their horses (back outside the steam vents, along with the other party's horses) didn't appeal to them.
#10
greywolf411
Apr 13, 2009 14:11:23 What I'm going to do is have the room before the Nexus with the doorway to it be as tall as the Nexus itself. It'll have a huge fresco of dwarves using the Nexus, fighting off orcs, giants and whatnot with a gigantic looming dwarf over the doorway. He'll be a legendary dwarven engineer who built the Nexus.

Hidden above his head is a landing that is essentially impossible to see, high Perception DC along with it being 100' or so up (+2 to the perception DC...although I think it should be +2 for every 50' but whatever).

In any case the hatch will be a large gear that lays flat and ratchets into place once the pcs get into the room and then they follow out the secret corridor to the head of the statue. From there far below they can see that it connects to the room before the Nexus. Not sure if I want a secret levitation pad, or a hidden wench and pully system that lowers some part of the landing down to the floor. In any case, this allows them to go back out to the vents to get their horses and not have to worry about the dead end of where they end up from the normal hatch and why they just didn't go there in the first place.
#11
mike_conno
Apr 14, 2009 7:50:48 Ultimately, the location of the Nexus depends on how long your characters take to travel through the Vents. That is the only thing you have to take into account.

Looking at the map, Overlook is 17 miles away from the Vents (not 40) and Bordrins Watch is about 33 miles away. The PC's are travelling in the tunnels, sometimes squeezing through narrow slits, sometimes going the wrong way (if they fail the Skill Challenge). If you follow the movement rules to the letter, it would take too long for them to get to any of those places (by then, the orcs would have stormed BW).

Why don't the PC's (and the Farstriders) go directly to the Nexus exit?

Maybe the Nexus exit hatch location was lost through the ages - how long was the last time someone had to flood it? That would explain why the party doesn't go there directly. Maybe its hidden from view and only a few knew where it once stood. Maybe those were killed in the attack to the monastery and the location is now lost. Kalad, like other dwarves knows only of a second entrance through the Vents.

The adventure is obviously lacking in that department (of providing an acurate location), so go ahead and make up your own.
#12
XaviYago
Jun 24, 2009 13:54:33 From page 22:

"Bordrin’s Watch contains one of the three access points to the tunnels beneath the mountains...Like the Monastery, the Watch contains a secret staircase [probably the access hatch] that winds down into the mountain and connects at a large room called the Nexus. There, soldiers at the Watch could move beneath the feet of their enemy and strike them from behind. This passage hasn’t been used in centuries and only a scant few know of its existence."

The elders are probably too entrenched in their beuracratic ways to know anything about the ancient dwarven defenses. Meanwhile, dwarves like Kalad who are truly the guardians for the dwarves know of these things. The distance between the Vents and Bordrin's Watch I assumed was travel within the Vents, although who said the access hatch had to open directly into the Watch. It could connect to more tunnels which eventually lead into the Watch.

The only known way of reaching the Nexus for the beuracratics is therefore through the Vents.

TANGENT:

Regarding the Vents... We have all seen how the Elsir River flows in two different directions according to which map you look at. I've reconciled this by including Sodden's Sink - a dark abyss just west of Sodden where the Elsir River falls into the earth. The module explains that a great underground lake fuels the steam of the Vents; in my version I allow the Elsir River to fuel the underground lake and eventually this steam.
#13
timwil
Jun 24, 2009 14:17:23 I don't get another point. Page 38 says: "Should any of the PCs think to mention the tunnels beneath Bordrin’s Watch, Kalad mentions they are already sealed, for he closed them a few days ago after the news of the approaching army grew dire." What's the difference between the Nexus and the tunnels underneath Bordrin's Watch? And how did Kalad managed to block those tunnels already? The PCs were dispatched to the monastery to warn the dwarves there about the Orcs, and it turns out they'd already known about it all the time?

Also page 6 says "The Council of Elders assigns the task of securing the tunnels beneath the Monastery of the Sundered Chain to the PCs" - but on page 9 the PCs are tasked with warning the monastery, not with securing any tunnels...
#14
atras
Jun 24, 2009 16:25:22 I didn't find this whole thing too complicated.

The Farstriders are sent to seal the Nexus. The Freeriders go to Bordrin's Watch, the player characters warn the Paladin/monks about the tunnel under their Monastery.

The Freeriders do some battles, get back fine. The Farstriders ride their horses to the Vents to enter the underground tunnels and find and seal the Nexus. Instead they get killed by a Troll. The players get to the Monastery too late to warn the Dwarves: Kalad has been to Bordrin's Watch, saw the signs of invading Orcs in the tunnels, collapsed the tunnel entrance at the Watch, and came back to the Monastery, then collapsed that tunnel - too late for his fellow Monk/Paladins.

The players go to the Vents to get into the Nexus, see the horses, travel around underground (mostly North) and eventually find the Nexus. After activating the flood panel, they climb out of the exit in the ceiling, which puts them in the middle of an area to the South of Overlook - through a well-disguised hatch built to match the ground. I put the exit somewhere along the middle ridge on the map near the river - the water for the trap has to come from somewhere - so I described it as built to tie into the Elsir River. They make their way on foot back to the Vents to get horses, or back to Overlook to get their reward.

The reason no one goes directly to the Nexus is that there are four exits on the East side of the mountains - the Monastery, Bordrin's Watch, the Vents and the hidden door. All of the tunnels that the Orcs come in from in the Nexus battle lead to several tunnels through the mountains (I took it that these tunnels were made by Dwarves during their years of enslavement by Giants and Ogres - an Underground Railroad of sorts). The hidden door is almost impossible to find from the Overlook side, and it doesn't make for a good invasion route - forcing single-file movement. The Vents are a natural hazard, and the Dwarves have put in the automated defenses in the tunnels, plus it used to be populated with guards.
#15
timwil
Jun 26, 2009 3:49:57 Yes, that makes sense when presented like this. The problem is that the adventure itself didn't present things in a logical manner. The Farstriders are sent to deal with some "trailblazers" that got to the tunnels below, the PCs are sent to warn the dwarves of the coming war, but noting is mentioned by the dwarf elder about any possible tunnels there. The Vents are not mentioned, so the party isn't really familiar with the term, and cannot realize the this is where the Farstriders went to.

Also why did the leader of the Farstriders get angry at the council when the PCs got the job to go to the monastery? That was really weird, and wasn't explained in a satisfactory manner. Does anyone have any idea?
#16
atras
Jun 26, 2009 8:37:36
Yes, that makes sense when presented like this. The problem is that the adventure itself didn't present things in a logical manner.

Well, I got all of those ideas directly from reading the adventure. I don't feel like I actually made anything up on my own with that description. I think the sending of the party to the Vents is explained in the adventure by saying that the players are expected to go back to Overlook - where they should be told about what the Farstriders were expected to do.

Also why did the leader of the Farstriders get angry at the council when the PCs got the job to go to the monastery? That was really weird, and wasn't explained in a satisfactory manner. Does anyone have any idea?

I agree - they say Edgar wants the glory missions, which it sounds like closing the passageways is the glory mission. The only thing I can think of is that the tunnels are expected to be either empty or only populated with soon-to-be-dead Orcs. The Monastery should have dwarves to Ooooh and Aaaaah over how cool and impressive the Farstriders are. That is all I can think of.
#17
arymetore
Jul 16, 2009 16:21:21 In reading through Bordrin's Watch, the issue of the hatch/access points was somewhat puzzling to me as well. Even without the supposedly lost knowledge, Kalad was just there to supposedly seal off the tunnels beneath Bordrin's Watch... which in effect closes off access to the Nexus except through the Vents and the Monastery.

Which does help explain why the Og is so enraged at failing to secure the exit at the Monastery.

Some things that can be done is to let the council know that the access point at Bordrin's Watch was been sealed when the size of the Orc army was first determined. It was sealed by Kalad as the dwarves of the Monastery felt that the less access points the better and they could defend the Monastery access and the Vent access was too dangerous and too confusing/narrow for an army to pass through (since shown a false hope). But that still doesn't allow for how the party gets out of the Nexus through the escape hatch.

What I am thinking is this: Kalad did not seal the tunnels under Bordrin's Watch. Instead he "reminded" the commander of Bordrin's Watch of the Nexus and the tunnel under the Watch by which means the tunnels could be sealed at the Nexus. It hasn't been sealed yet as it takes some time for the Nexus to be cleared so that a dwarven army could be sent through to flank the orc army as has been the past tactic. Kalad then returned to the Monastery.

The commander sent a scouting party to the Nexus to check on it and have them familiarize themselves with the controls. One managed to make it back up as they encountered orcs massing at the Nexus. A pitched battle has already started under Bordrin's Watch to recapture the Nexus while not depleting the forces manning the walls. Tusk has been overseeing this battle with the moderate group of specially selected orcs and others (orogs and trolls). Og was sent to the Monastery access as the Bordrin's access has been blocked off by the battle as additional scouts are sent to map a way through the Vents with the Dark Creeper assistance.

Tusk's plan was to assault Bordrin's Watch from below when the main army assaulted the walls. They just had the bad luck to be discovered early and not stop the alarm from being sounded. So, this knowledge has been passed on to Overlook (likely through Sending Stone) so that the council is able to assign the most dangerous task of entering the Vents, navigating them, and then coming up on the orcs from behind to shut down the Nexus. They will then come up and flank the orcs that have fortified themselves in the tunnel leading up to Bordrin's Watch at which time the dwarven forces that have been keeping them at bay with their own set of hasty fortifications will break through and link up. The orcs have not pushed through yet as they are waiting on the main army to assault the walls and the reinforcements that are on their way to signal the assault beginning (where Tusk is now and explains somewhat the emergance of orcs from the different side tunnels of the Nexus as the party rushes up).

This is what I am thinking might work in that it 1. places the escape hatch under Bordrin's Watch and provides a means of egress for the party after the Nexus. 2. It explains the need for the party to secure the tunnels at the Monastery and warn the monks that since the Nexus was not sealed, an attack can be expected there and the party is to provide reinforcements to the monks until the Farstriders do seal the Nexus. 3. it explains the need for the Farstriders and then the party to go into the Vents since the Monastery exit is now sealed and the orcs are better equipped than thought and you don't want all your eggs in one basket if you can help it (rely solely on the Farstriders).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 paulos Feb 02, 2009 21:27:09	The module says the Farstriders are assigned the dangerous duty of clearing and sealing the tunnels that emerge under Bordrin's Watch itself. But then how do their horses get to be outside of the Vents? Am I missing something? All tunnels connect to the Nexus right? Did they go through and ... no that doesn't explain the horses.
#2 Misroi Feb 03, 2009 0:14:56	Yep, it's a plot inconsistency, at least the way I read it. When I ran it, I changed the mission parameters slightly. The Farstriders had to go to the Vents to close things up, the PCs got the Monastery duty, and the Freeriders got to travel around the surrounding villages and bring everyone back to Overlook. All three groups went to a spot that would be the rendezvous point, and told to return when they had finished their missions. That way, when the Farstriders don't show up, there's a nagging fear. These guys are the heroes in the Elsir Vale right now, and they couldn't handle whatever was down in those tunnels. Plus, it explains the horses. Although, MAAAAAAYBE they planned on going down into the Nexus, then leaving through the big doors and getting up through the Vents, where the dwarves kindly provided mounts for a speedy travel to Bordrin's Watch. Of course, that begs the question: how did they plan to use the control panel and get out while the room filled with water?
#3 thellaren Feb 04, 2009 12:10:24	The module says the Farstriders are assigned the dangerous duty of clearing and sealing the tunnels that emerge under Bordrin's Watch itself. But then how do their horses get to be outside of the Vents? Am I missing something? All tunnels connect to the Nexus right? Did they go through and ... no that doesn't explain the horses. The Nexus is pretty much directly under Overlook (the Farstriders are described as dealing with the tunnels under Overlook, so that's where it has to be). The only known way to get to the Nexus is via the steam vents, 40 miles away.
#4 paulos Feb 04, 2009 12:30:59	I wondered if that was the case. So the AP pulls through without at least this alledged inconsistancy. That works great for me. Thanks Thellaren.
#5 thellaren Feb 04, 2009 19:37:30	Do, however, bear in mind that there's no way the Farstriders could have made it out to the vents, then back on foot through the underdark, in the time allowed.
#6 thellaren Feb 04, 2009 20:23:05	Do, however, bear in mind that there's no way the Farstriders could have made it out to the vents, then back on foot through the underdark, in the time allowed.
#7 bathuri Feb 05, 2009 6:09:15	While I agree to plot inconsistency, I thought the Nexus was beneath Bordrin's Watch and not Overlook. On page 41 of the module it says: V1. Entering the Vents Beyond the mazelike Vents is the buried passage, a hidden route through the mountains beneath Bordrin’s Watch far above. Opening onto the rest of the complex is a simple antechamber, shrouded in mist. I actually planned to have the escape hatch in the Nexus open up to Bordrin's Watch, but gave it up as I could not explain why they did not go down that way in the first place, but had to walk through the dangerous Vents for miles and miles. Of course the inconsistencies can probably be found with the module itself - it might say 'beneath Overlook' somewhere else in the module.
#8 greywolf411 Apr 12, 2009 15:08:55	There is simply no good way to explain why on earth you wouldn't just go through the top hatch of the Nexus. The fact that the Nexus is below, either Bordrin's Watch or Overlook is also odd due to their distance from the Vents, as stated ~40 miles. Then of course there are the other tunnels that connect to the Nexus that lead off beyond to the other side of the mountain. Hence the reason the Orcs want through via the tunnels versus going through the pass that Bordrin's Watch blocks. It would seem that the top hatch opens up somewhere into a chamber that is still in the mountain, seeing as the vents are much farther down in elevation than that of Bordrin's watch, which is stated to be above the Nexus. However, that isn't mentioned, so you have to assume the hatch just pops you out on the surface somewhere either near Bordrin's Watch or perhaps a few miles away. Again, why someone didn't just go through the hatch is beyond me. I've been trying to reconcile this in my mind for awhile now before my players get there, and while they may not even be something they think about it bugs me to no end. If you created some sort of room or something above the nexus that allowed people to move to above the hallway before the doors and drop back down that would be something worth adding. As it stands I also wonder how in the dwarves end up getting the water back out. I'm going to be mentioning drains n' such that are visible at the base floor of the nexus.
#9 thellaren Apr 13, 2009 0:03:28	The dwarven method of exit security demonstrated at the monastery by Kalad usually involves not being able to use the tunnel any more; both the one he collapsed and the one that was guarded by autoblasters were pretty impassable (at least, for minions...). They did go to a great deal of effort to make a boiling water trap that would flood the nexus; I'm not sure why they didn't just rig all the connecting tunnels to collapse instead. My party noted the exit hatch at the top, checked it out to make sure it didn't have any treasure, then went back to the first room where they fought the shadar kai, activated the flooding trap and beat feet back to the steam vents. The idea of climbing up into unknown territory an unknown distance from their horses (back outside the steam vents, along with the other party's horses) didn't appeal to them.
#10 greywolf411 Apr 13, 2009 14:11:23	What I'm going to do is have the room before the Nexus with the doorway to it be as tall as the Nexus itself. It'll have a huge fresco of dwarves using the Nexus, fighting off orcs, giants and whatnot with a gigantic looming dwarf over the doorway. He'll be a legendary dwarven engineer who built the Nexus. Hidden above his head is a landing that is essentially impossible to see, high Perception DC along with it being 100' or so up (+2 to the perception DC...although I think it should be +2 for every 50' but whatever). In any case the hatch will be a large gear that lays flat and ratchets into place once the pcs get into the room and then they follow out the secret corridor to the head of the statue. From there far below they can see that it connects to the room before the Nexus. Not sure if I want a secret levitation pad, or a hidden wench and pully system that lowers some part of the landing down to the floor. In any case, this allows them to go back out to the vents to get their horses and not have to worry about the dead end of where they end up from the normal hatch and why they just didn't go there in the first place.
#11 mike_conno Apr 14, 2009 7:50:48	Ultimately, the location of the Nexus depends on how long your characters take to travel through the Vents. That is the only thing you have to take into account. Looking at the map, Overlook is 17 miles away from the Vents (not 40) and Bordrins Watch is about 33 miles away. The PC's are travelling in the tunnels, sometimes squeezing through narrow slits, sometimes going the wrong way (if they fail the Skill Challenge). If you follow the movement rules to the letter, it would take too long for them to get to any of those places (by then, the orcs would have stormed BW). Why don't the PC's (and the Farstriders) go directly to the Nexus exit? Maybe the Nexus exit hatch location was lost through the ages - how long was the last time someone had to flood it? That would explain why the party doesn't go there directly. Maybe its hidden from view and only a few knew where it once stood. Maybe those were killed in the attack to the monastery and the location is now lost. Kalad, like other dwarves knows only of a second entrance through the Vents. The adventure is obviously lacking in that department (of providing an acurate location), so go ahead and make up your own.
#12 XaviYago Jun 24, 2009 13:54:33	From page 22: "Bordrin’s Watch contains one of the three access points to the tunnels beneath the mountains...Like the Monastery, the Watch contains a secret staircase [probably the access hatch] that winds down into the mountain and connects at a large room called the Nexus. There, soldiers at the Watch could move beneath the feet of their enemy and strike them from behind. This passage hasn’t been used in centuries and only a scant few know of its existence." The elders are probably too entrenched in their beuracratic ways to know anything about the ancient dwarven defenses. Meanwhile, dwarves like Kalad who are truly the guardians for the dwarves know of these things. The distance between the Vents and Bordrin's Watch I assumed was travel within the Vents, although who said the access hatch had to open directly into the Watch. It could connect to more tunnels which eventually lead into the Watch. The only known way of reaching the Nexus for the beuracratics is therefore through the Vents. TANGENT: Regarding the Vents... We have all seen how the Elsir River flows in two different directions according to which map you look at. I've reconciled this by including Sodden's Sink - a dark abyss just west of Sodden where the Elsir River falls into the earth. The module explains that a great underground lake fuels the steam of the Vents; in my version I allow the Elsir River to fuel the underground lake and eventually this steam.
#13 timwil Jun 24, 2009 14:17:23	I don't get another point. Page 38 says: "Should any of the PCs think to mention the tunnels beneath Bordrin’s Watch, Kalad mentions they are already sealed, for he closed them a few days ago after the news of the approaching army grew dire." What's the difference between the Nexus and the tunnels underneath Bordrin's Watch? And how did Kalad managed to block those tunnels already? The PCs were dispatched to the monastery to warn the dwarves there about the Orcs, and it turns out they'd already known about it all the time? Also page 6 says "The Council of Elders assigns the task of securing the tunnels beneath the Monastery of the Sundered Chain to the PCs" - but on page 9 the PCs are tasked with warning the monastery, not with securing any tunnels...
#14 atras Jun 24, 2009 16:25:22	I didn't find this whole thing too complicated. The Farstriders are sent to seal the Nexus. The Freeriders go to Bordrin's Watch, the player characters warn the Paladin/monks about the tunnel under their Monastery. The Freeriders do some battles, get back fine. The Farstriders ride their horses to the Vents to enter the underground tunnels and find and seal the Nexus. Instead they get killed by a Troll. The players get to the Monastery too late to warn the Dwarves: Kalad has been to Bordrin's Watch, saw the signs of invading Orcs in the tunnels, collapsed the tunnel entrance at the Watch, and came back to the Monastery, then collapsed that tunnel - too late for his fellow Monk/Paladins. The players go to the Vents to get into the Nexus, see the horses, travel around underground (mostly North) and eventually find the Nexus. After activating the flood panel, they climb out of the exit in the ceiling, which puts them in the middle of an area to the South of Overlook - through a well-disguised hatch built to match the ground. I put the exit somewhere along the middle ridge on the map near the river - the water for the trap has to come from somewhere - so I described it as built to tie into the Elsir River. They make their way on foot back to the Vents to get horses, or back to Overlook to get their reward. The reason no one goes directly to the Nexus is that there are four exits on the East side of the mountains - the Monastery, Bordrin's Watch, the Vents and the hidden door. All of the tunnels that the Orcs come in from in the Nexus battle lead to several tunnels through the mountains (I took it that these tunnels were made by Dwarves during their years of enslavement by Giants and Ogres - an Underground Railroad of sorts). The hidden door is almost impossible to find from the Overlook side, and it doesn't make for a good invasion route - forcing single-file movement. The Vents are a natural hazard, and the Dwarves have put in the automated defenses in the tunnels, plus it used to be populated with guards.
#15 timwil Jun 26, 2009 3:49:57	Yes, that makes sense when presented like this. The problem is that the adventure itself didn't present things in a logical manner. The Farstriders are sent to deal with some "trailblazers" that got to the tunnels below, the PCs are sent to warn the dwarves of the coming war, but noting is mentioned by the dwarf elder about any possible tunnels there. The Vents are not mentioned, so the party isn't really familiar with the term, and cannot realize the this is where the Farstriders went to. Also why did the leader of the Farstriders get angry at the council when the PCs got the job to go to the monastery? That was really weird, and wasn't explained in a satisfactory manner. Does anyone have any idea?
#16 atras Jun 26, 2009 8:37:36	Yes, that makes sense when presented like this. The problem is that the adventure itself didn't present things in a logical manner. Well, I got all of those ideas directly from reading the adventure. I don't feel like I actually made anything up on my own with that description. I think the sending of the party to the Vents is explained in the adventure by saying that the players are expected to go back to Overlook - where they should be told about what the Farstriders were expected to do. Also why did the leader of the Farstriders get angry at the council when the PCs got the job to go to the monastery? That was really weird, and wasn't explained in a satisfactory manner. Does anyone have any idea? I agree - they say Edgar wants the glory missions, which it sounds like closing the passageways is the glory mission. The only thing I can think of is that the tunnels are expected to be either empty or only populated with soon-to-be-dead Orcs. The Monastery should have dwarves to Ooooh and Aaaaah over how cool and impressive the Farstriders are. That is all I can think of.
#17 arymetore Jul 16, 2009 16:21:21	In reading through Bordrin's Watch, the issue of the hatch/access points was somewhat puzzling to me as well. Even without the supposedly lost knowledge, Kalad was just there to supposedly seal off the tunnels beneath Bordrin's Watch... which in effect closes off access to the Nexus except through the Vents and the Monastery. Which does help explain why the Og is so enraged at failing to secure the exit at the Monastery. Some things that can be done is to let the council know that the access point at Bordrin's Watch was been sealed when the size of the Orc army was first determined. It was sealed by Kalad as the dwarves of the Monastery felt that the less access points the better and they could defend the Monastery access and the Vent access was too dangerous and too confusing/narrow for an army to pass through (since shown a false hope). But that still doesn't allow for how the party gets out of the Nexus through the escape hatch. What I am thinking is this: Kalad did not seal the tunnels under Bordrin's Watch. Instead he "reminded" the commander of Bordrin's Watch of the Nexus and the tunnel under the Watch by which means the tunnels could be sealed at the Nexus. It hasn't been sealed yet as it takes some time for the Nexus to be cleared so that a dwarven army could be sent through to flank the orc army as has been the past tactic. Kalad then returned to the Monastery. The commander sent a scouting party to the Nexus to check on it and have them familiarize themselves with the controls. One managed to make it back up as they encountered orcs massing at the Nexus. A pitched battle has already started under Bordrin's Watch to recapture the Nexus while not depleting the forces manning the walls. Tusk has been overseeing this battle with the moderate group of specially selected orcs and others (orogs and trolls). Og was sent to the Monastery access as the Bordrin's access has been blocked off by the battle as additional scouts are sent to map a way through the Vents with the Dark Creeper assistance. Tusk's plan was to assault Bordrin's Watch from below when the main army assaulted the walls. They just had the bad luck to be discovered early and not stop the alarm from being sounded. So, this knowledge has been passed on to Overlook (likely through Sending Stone) so that the council is able to assign the most dangerous task of entering the Vents, navigating them, and then coming up on the orcs from behind to shut down the Nexus. They will then come up and flank the orcs that have fortified themselves in the tunnel leading up to Bordrin's Watch at which time the dwarven forces that have been keeping them at bay with their own set of hasty fortifications will break through and link up. The orcs have not pushed through yet as they are waiting on the main army to assault the walls and the reinforcements that are on their way to signal the assault beginning (where Tusk is now and explains somewhat the emergance of orcs from the different side tunnels of the Nexus as the party rushes up). This is what I am thinking might work in that it 1. places the escape hatch under Bordrin's Watch and provides a means of egress for the party after the Nexus. 2. It explains the need for the party to secure the tunnels at the Monastery and warn the monks that since the Nexus was not sealed, an attack can be expected there and the party is to provide reinforcements to the monks until the Farstriders do seal the Nexus. 3. it explains the need for the Farstriders and then the party to go into the Vents since the Monastery exit is now sealed and the orcs are better equipped than thought and you don't want all your eggs in one basket if you can help it (rely solely on the Farstriders).