| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1dark_adderDec 13, 2010 7:01:54 | Personally fed up with the entire DDI experience. Lack of updates, poor delivery models, undelivered promises, poor communication and the list goes on and on. I have decided to boycott Hasbro this holiday season. Perhaps it is time to get WOTC's parent company's attention. |
| #2frothsofDec 13, 2010 7:17:11 | alright theres one non-subscriber for a boycott, 40 thousand plus for not happy holidays |
| #3dark_adderDec 13, 2010 7:31:18 | alright theres one non-subscriber for a boycott Been there done that. Didn't get what I was paying for. Obviously, why I'm "fed up" and trying get get a message back to the parent company to fix this. Boycotting is an excellent approach to encouraging corporate change. The problem here isn't just in the applications. |
| #4thespaceinvaderDec 13, 2010 8:59:54 | Butbutbut i wasn't planning to buy anything from Hasbro anyway (apart, maybe, from some D&D books, when I can afford them). WHAT SHOULD I DOOOOOO???!!!One. Seriously, a boycott is likely to do precisely squat. And even if it does, the most likely thing it would achieve would be to get Wizards cut off from income source, and thereby cause major problems for the game. Is that what you want? |
| #5Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 9:20:17 | Yeah, Hasbro won't see as a need to change policy, just products. But there is also some evidence recently that DDi is doing well enough for Hasbro to allow WoTC to outsource again. Which means, it's making enough money for Hasbro to want to invest in it more. So, chances are, you aren't going to find even enough people to support the way you feel, to make a difference, or be noticed. |
| #6dark_adderDec 13, 2010 9:22:26 | Hasbro isn't going to dump the WOTC product line. However, it may put pressure on those that keep making poor decisions with DDI. They will not risk entire corporate product lines because of mismanagement of another; especially one as small as DDI. Most likely, the factors compelling DDI to release these inferior products stem from Hasbro putting the wrong pressures on them in the first place. |
| #7Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 9:28:00 |
Again, an upset customer doesn't mean the line is being mismanaged. DnD makes money. That's the bottom line and that's what Hasbro is going to ONLY care about, not that a handful of players don't like the choices. More so when those choices are actually growing the brand into new customers. Which it seems to be doing. Sorry, but it does. I know you wish you had something to show, but all evidence points towards success, not failure. |
| #8NyarlathotepDec 13, 2010 9:28:56 |
Unfortunately, your idea depends on the cooperation of people who do four things a) Play D&D b) Use DDI c) Also buy other Hasboro products (because if you weren't going to buy anything anyway, you aren't really boycotting) d) are upset enough about DDI to play along with the boycott By the time you hit all four of those criteria, you are a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of Hasboro's customer base. So your boycott isn't likely to be even noticed. So nice idea, but impractical. |
| #9fofoolinDec 13, 2010 9:44:33 | you will have to advertise your boycott world wide for hasbro to notice. i say hack facebook, the hasbro main page, and steal the identities of everybody who has bought any toys from hasbro this christmas season to chastise them for supporting a huge company with a small subsidary who pissed you off. |
| #10nightwalker450Dec 13, 2010 10:23:37 | Yep.. all those little girls buying My Little Pony's, will be right behind your conquest because you're not getting your way. Little to say though you think your little corner of a company is the most important thing, I highly doubt they feel the same way. And I highly doubt your dramaticism is going to register anywhere. I'm relatively certain that they have a special sorting system even for letters/emails from the people who post things like this on the forums. It's an overly large trash can, simply labeled NERDRAGE! |
| #11dark_adderDec 13, 2010 10:24:07 |
I'm not trying to do anything malicious or illegal. I'm just planning to boycott Hasbro this Holiday season. |
| #12Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 10:39:00 |
I support your personal choice. However not sure it's worth posting in the forums. Sounds like you want attention. I'm not saying you do, just that's how these threads always seem to me. I'm hurt over a game, or whatever, and I want attention. |
| #13hametsujDec 13, 2010 10:42:17 |
In other words, what would you like us(the forum members) to do? Join you in your boycott? What does posting your decision on a forum accomplish? |
| #14dark_adderDec 13, 2010 11:06:20 | In other words, what would you like us(the forum members) to do? Join you in your boycott? What does posting your decision on a forum accomplish? The forums are a way to share ideas, concepts, and attitudes. Those that hadn't contemplated this as a complement to just dropping a subscription have been given a tool to help bring about a positive change. I'd say those that are happy with what is being done need do nothing. Those that aren't content, have options to exercise. Posting on the forum is my way of sharing ideas and reaching out to everyone, including management. It is a common concept much like a protest march, picketing, or handing out leaflets. It gets attention, demonstrates public opinion, and provides an impetus for change. |
| #15Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 11:11:45 | In other words, what would you like us(the forum members) to do? Join you in your boycott? What does posting your decision on a forum accomplish? There is also a limit on what ideas and concepts and attitudes you are allowed to share. And then there are those you have to ask yourself if they are worth sharing. For example, to me this is an attitude that is just going to cause some bad feelings to spread on the forums. You can share it if you want. But should you share it? Do you feel any better then you did, or are you getting a little more frustrated that your idea is being meet with resistance by others? |
| #16zman123Dec 13, 2010 11:52:06 |
According to some of the gaming shop owners around my area, Hasbro is planning on dismantling Wizards of the Coast. If this is so, then Wizards of the Coast will no longer be in existence and there will be only Hasbro producing the MTG and D&D line of products. This often happens when bigger companies eat up smaller companies. |
| #17drnickDec 13, 2010 11:59:29 | You appear to be a reasonable individual and I think boycotts are a great way to affect change in a marketplace so I first of all wish you good luck on... whatever it is you're trying to change. According to some of the gaming shop owners around my area, Hasbro is planning on dismantling Wizards of the Coast. I have no idea if this is or isn't true but it seems unlikely to me. What area do you live in where game shop owners have inside knowledge of the inner workings of Hasbro? |
| #18frothsofDec 13, 2010 12:03:45 | keep us posted on how the boycott goes |
| #19zman123Dec 13, 2010 12:23:02 |
I live in the Cleveland area and there are only 3 gaming shops here that I do business with on a regular basis. Gaming Shop owners have basic management skills, which would allow them to spot disturbing trends happening within a corporate environment. I will not disclose names or the name of their shops, since this was pretty much a private discusion between them and myself. |
| #20Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 12:38:35 |
Sorry, in my expereince, most game shops only manage to exist because there are no other options around, and not through any business acumen. WoTC has gone to many lengths to try and give these stores an advantage to help them survive financially. |
| #21talok55Dec 13, 2010 14:00:06 |
I'm not sure how much stock to put in that rumor, but if it does happen, I hope they do a better job managing the brand that WotC has. Man have they really messed up, especially in the past few months. |
| #22Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 14:02:16 |
If messing up means better sales then they have had in a while, then I guess they did mess up. |
| #23talok55Dec 13, 2010 14:06:23 |
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| #24talok55Dec 13, 2010 14:08:19 |
So you have WotC's sales numbers for the past few months, do you? Exactly, how did you get that info? |
| #25Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 14:18:03 | There's is no way that I could answer that to anyone's satisfaction. If I do have information, nothing short of proving that source would sufice. Now, if I do, which do you think is more important? Proving someone I don't know on the internet wrong, or keeping a source of information and not getting that source in trouble? The bottom line, no matter what the facts are, you are going to think what you want. If I know something you don't, I don't really care if you believe me or not, because I know the truth. Eithe way, believe what you want. |
| #26talok55Dec 13, 2010 14:25:38 | You do kind of strike me a s dies hard WotC apologist, so it is somewhat difficult for me to believe you have that information. If you were to give a credible source I could check on that would be a different story. Even if you have some information that showed that WotC's or Hasbro's sales figures were up recently, it wouldn't mean squat because D&D is small potatoes compared to their other product lines and wouldn't affect their bottom line much either way if D&D was doing well or was barely profitable. |
| #27Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 14:37:00 | You do kind of strike me a s dies hard WotC apologist, so it is somewhat difficult for me to believe you have that information. If you were to give a credible source I could check on that would be a different story. Even if you have some information that showed that WotC's or Hasbro's sales figures were up recently, it wouldn't mean squat because D&D is small potatoes compared to their other product lines and wouldn't affect their bottom line much either way if D&D was doing well or was barely profitable. I could just as easily say you are unrational and twist the truth about everything to your way of thinking, so where will that get us? The fact is, I've been outspoken against WoTC, when I feel they haven't been upfront, or I haven't liked what they did. So, I guess I'm not a WoTC apologist as you seem to think I am. And just like I said, even if I could show figures, or proof, it doesn't mean squat. The fact is, Magic outstrips just about every other product WoTC makes. DnD is small potatos. It's a niche market. Even the people who work on DnD acknowledge that. I went to GenCon this year, as an artist (Helping my friends who are fantasy illustrators with their tables) I got to meet many people who work at WoTC. They say that about the game they work on. But they also say, it makes a profit, and holds it own, and 4E has had really good sales, some of the best in years. No that is not my source. I'm just saying, it's doing well. The fact that they were allowed to outsource the framework for the VT says a lot. Hasbro isn't going to let them spend money on something that is failing. Looking at the DDi group, it's now at 43,900k. When just a month ago, it was 42K. Since you can't sign up for a month and then get the CB/MB update and quit, and all the people that probably quite because of the change have gone or are going, it seems like more people are signing up then leaving. But I supose that doesn't mean squat, and that the number of people really leaving just haven't hit yet. |
| #28JhariiDec 13, 2010 14:40:11 | No that is not my source. I'm just saying, it's doing well. The fact that they were allowed to outsource the framework for the VT says a lot. Hasbro isn't going to let them spend money on something that is failing. It doesn't say anything except that it was within their price range. It could have been expensive, a small licensing fee, it could have been free and/or commission-based, or simply displaying and advertisement "Powered by GameTableOnline." |
| #29dark_adderDec 13, 2010 19:55:18 | The point here is about ways to incourage change. How boycotts can and are effective even in small numbers and how people have the right to bring about a desired change through such measures. It is not about what changes we need. That has been said repeatedly elsewhere and would simply derail this thread once again. |
| #30Dane_McArdyDec 13, 2010 20:00:07 | The point here is about ways to incourage change. How boycotts can and are effective even in small numbers and how people have the right to bring about a desired change through such measures. Whatever, you've got nothing to stand on. You can't tell a company they need to change, without tell them WHAT they need to change and how they need to change it. And any parent that has a child that wants a toy Hasbro makes, isn't going to care about your boycott over a the fact you don't like a game. |
| #31christianjohnsonDec 13, 2010 23:31:05 | Wizards of the Coast is one of the Star Performers for Hasbro, as their most recent Quarterly report makes clear. "The increase in the games and puzzles category was primarily due to the increase in MAGIC: THE GATHERING products and the increase in the preschool category was primarily due to increased sales of PLAY DOH, PLAYSKOOL and TONKA products. The decrease in the boys category was due to the decreased sales of TRANSFORMERS and GI JOE products due to the movie releases relating to these products in 2009. These decreases were partially offset by higher sales of NERF and IRON MAN products as well as the impact of the reintroduction of BEYBLADE line of products in 2010." You would also do well to examine the following pages in their investors report from Investors Day 2010 -- page 96, 105 - 107, and 131. The D&D brand is a strong brand and while they have not announced any projects for it, other than a new MMO, you can bet they will look to add a D&D show on the Hub. In my experience, local game stores are the worst source of information. According to my local game store, Pinnacle Entertainment isn't in business any more. |
| #32zman123Dec 14, 2010 0:09:59 | When Wizards of the Coast had bought the rights to produce Dungeons and Dragons product line from TSR everyone was very happy, because they knew that their favorite game was going to be supported by a good comapany. WOTC itself has the gamers best interests in their hearts. I like Wizards of the Coast, it's a good company. However, when Hasbro saw how well MTG was doing in the marketplace, they started to buy up WOTC stocks until the had enough to take over the company. Hasbro is solely a profit based company, that don't really have the gamers interests in their hearts. If a game sells well, Hasbro wants it! If a game becomes no longer profitable, Hasbro will get rid of it. (Example Heroscape) Right now Hasbro no longer needs WOTC to produce the Magic the Gathering the cardgame. WOTC is in danger of being completely eliminated on Hasbro's whim. It doesn't even matter if WOTC is a star performer or not, Hasbro had gotten what they wanted and that is the Magic the Gathering, the card game, which is the true star of the show when it comes to making profits... P.S. I have read the quarterly report and the Dungeons and Dragons product line wasn't even mentioned once in that report. |
| #33NyarlathotepDec 14, 2010 0:39:03 | Hasbro is solely a profit based company, that don't really have the gamers interests in their hearts. I have bad news for you, they're ALL profit based companies. Those that aren't, even those that are but aren't good at it, fall by the wayside quickly. |
| #34GeorgeLanningDec 14, 2010 1:00:14 | Not that it matters, but I seem to remember Hasbro was more interested in the Pokemon revenue than any of other brands. Hasbro is a very big company and the ability to maximize the return from intellectual properties is a much more important factor in considering what products to produce. If they could get millions to buy D&D Candy Land or D&D Mr Potato Head it would be up for consideration. WOTC literally saved D&D from belonging to the printing company and has maintained their comittment to producing higher quality products, personal opinion, than many of the later TSR releases. For that all players of D&D should be thankful. |
| #35christianjohnsonDec 14, 2010 12:38:27 | In all seriousness, I would buy D&D Candy Land in a heart beat. I would also buy a D&D Mr Potato Head if it came with a Warduke helmet. Hasbro has shown a commitment to the D&D Brand. They are developing a computer game and likely developing a show for their Hub network. A key component of any brand -- if you want to leverage it -- is to maintain the base brand property even if its derivatives are making more money. This is because the originating brand sets the identity that is being leveraged. Digital Scrabble will make more money than physical Scrabble next year, but both are going to be profitable with a positive NPV. Any project with a positive NPV, even of $1, is worth pursuing from a company's perspective. D&D easily meets this test, and Magic more than meets it as its performance makes up for losses in other areas of the company. Hasbro has no history of dismantling subsidiaries as those have Brand value as well. Did they stop producing Milton Bradley Games? How about Playskool toys? Hasbro is about Brand and Wizards is a stronger Brand than Hasbro for the products in the Wizards line. I pointed to their Investors Meeting where they highlighted how they would emphasize Brands like Wizards, Magic, and D&D in the coming year. |
| #36talok55Dec 14, 2010 13:24:49 | WOTC literally saved D&D from belonging to the printing company and has maintained their comittment to producing higher quality products, personal opinion, than many of the later TSR releases. For that all players of D&D should be thankful. I too am grateful to WotC for saving D&D. The thing is that the WotC that saved D&D is a very different beast from the WotC of today. Practically no one who worked there then is there now. Everything from their support of open gaming to how they deal with customers and the quality of their products has changed since then, and not for the better. |
| #37kenjoonDec 14, 2010 13:40:06 | WOTC literally saved D&D from belonging to the printing company and has maintained their comittment to producing higher quality products, personal opinion, than many of the later TSR releases. For that all players of D&D should be thankful. To be fair, if open gaming was such a success for WotC they would still be doing it. The "great experiment", called open gaming, failed. |
| #38talok55Dec 14, 2010 14:21:52 | To be fair, Paizo is using open gaming, and they are successful enough to keep hiring people while WotC keeps laying people off. |
| #39kenjoonDec 14, 2010 15:02:53 | To be fair, Paizo is using open gaming, and they are successful enough to keep hiring people while WotC keeps laying people off. People keep pointing to this, but you can't compare companies whose revenues are vastly different. Open gaming works for Paizo specifically because they are smaller. Kind of how open source works for Linux because they are smaller than MS. Open source would never work for MS. They're just too big for it to help them in any way. In the same way that open gaming didn't work for WotC. And really don't you think it's much more likely that WotC is flailing right now more because of horrible customer service instead of anything to do with open gaming. Really customer service > open gaming by a long stretch. When is the last time you heard a complaint about GSL from a WotC customer (and not a 3PP)? |
| #40drnickDec 14, 2010 16:09:29 |
Suffice it to say that managing a retail shop and managing a multimillion dollar brand are two different beasts. Also, a smart manager would know not to make judgements without having all the data. For instance, I think someone unfamiliar with how brands and corporations work would say something like that. I mean, even if Hasbro dismantles the WotC brand (for some reason that's a whole other argument), do you think they're going to fire everybody at WotC? At most it would be a marketing change (ie what is the name printed on the books?). If they did fire everybody then they would be really, really dumb. Like, the conversation would be something like this: Some dumb executive: "Hey everybody! I know we don't have any writers on staff except for the boys out west at Wizards of the Coast and I know we primarily sell toys and not puzzles and games but what if we just fired the entire staff of the most successful role playing game/collectible card game brand ever and brought everything in house!" Everyone else in the meeting: *Stare* |
| #41rhianni32Dec 15, 2010 8:06:16 | 1: My problems are with DDI not 4ed, not with wotc as a whole (apart from those that handle DDI) and not hasbro. Any boycotting on my part will be limited to what I have issues with. 2: Dude I am not giving up my transformers. F that. |
| #42drnickDec 15, 2010 11:26:49 | I haven't bought a Transformer since 1988. Does that count as a boycott? |
| #43zman123Dec 15, 2010 20:50:36 | DrNick Just because Hasbro may dismantle WOTC is doesn't mean that they'll necessarily fire everyone on the WOTC staff, it just means that WOTC will be no more. Furthermore, everyone who did work for WOTC would be absorbed into Hasbro and those workers would have to get use to how HASBRO does business. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, only time will tell. Anyhow, everything that the business shop had told me is conjecture based on the Bad decisions that WOTC have done lately. |
| #44drnickDec 16, 2010 12:21:35 | If they don't fire anyone then why do we care? It's a marketing thing and we continue to buy books written by the same people. I mean, unless you own stock? |
| #45oni_baku_06Dec 16, 2010 13:58:47 | A boycott would do nothing but hurt our chances of getting anything fixed. We just have to be patient with WotC. Yes, I know the DDi is all jacked up, but it will get fixed. These things take time. Now, if it's been over a year or something like that, we NO progress at all, then I can understand taking some sort of action, but not now, not this early. |
| #46lokiareDec 16, 2010 23:14:48 | A boycott would do nothing but hurt our chances of getting anything fixed. We just have to be patient with WotC. Yes, I know the DDi is all jacked up, but it will get fixed. These things take time. Now, if it's been over a year or something like that, we NO progress at all, then I can understand taking some sort of action, but not now, not this early. You must be new so I'll cut you some newbie slack... Its been over 2 years and WotC has a grand total of an Online only Character Builder that doesn't work properly and a monster builder that is broken. Do a search of the forums or check my sig. Then come back and say "cut them some slack". Also on a side note the VT is made by a third party developer. I'm glad they are finally getting one, but this only puts them at 1/3 of what they promised on the release of 4E. I just can't take anyone seriously when they talk about "waiting" and "giving them some slack" or anything of the kind. |