edit
though it isnt up yet, the fact that they are upping a downloads to fix the bugs is CAUSE FOR PRAISE
i was worried, even CONFIDENT, that it would be left broken and near useless, but THANK YOU
Sorry Frothy, have you checked the program since updating? I'm still getting the same old bugs. This is very irritating. I thought maybe the update didn't take but you can see that it did by reading this.
Hopefully they issue another update ASAP that acutally fixes the bugs. I'm sure this was just an oversight and someone made the wrong version available to update.
However, it was quickly replaced by aggravation that two significant bugs weren't fixed.
triggers still disappear
There was an update today, which made me jubilant that my opinion on WotC not issuing another update for MB was proven wrong.
However, it was quickly replaced by aggravation that two significant bugs weren't fixed.
Make that 4 bugs. The alternate speeds bug is still there as well as the resistance/immunity bugs. I'm still checking for more, but it's not looking good.
surely they will fix it, maybe like you said they upped the wrong thing?
ok well they are trying to fix it it looks like so maybe they will get it done
i havent dled it i just read about it and was like woah they need a thanks
so hopefully it gets done, theres gotta be a way to fix it bc the last update is the one that broke it
I'm 100% certain they will fix it. This must have been a mistake. There's no way Trevor's going to boldly announced that it was fixed and then not fix it. I'd like to thank WotC in advance for making these bug fixes because, as a DM, the MB is the most important tool I use. Thanks!
I also just noticed that the Monster Vault entries are missing from the Compendium despite the fact they were supposed to be in todays update (Dark Sun creatures are there! Yes!). Please fix this soon, I needz mah monsters! Thanks.
From Trevor..,
The Monster Vault content did not make it into today's update, but we're hoping to be able to get it in later in December.
I find it telling that virtually the only people who have kind words for the new software are the ones who have not used it.
Yes, we've reached a low point here on the forums.
Reading this thread and the other one about the compendium "update" it sounds like WoTC scored another own goal with D&Di, so I haven't missed out on much.
Sitting on the outside and looking in is much more fun, and far less annoying.
Specifically, the alternate speeds bug mentioned above was addressed. Looking through the updated AT, the Blizzard Dragon Wyrmling should have a speed 6 icewalk and the Ultrademon Schemer should have speed 7 phasing.
After touching base with the studio, it's possible that there may be an issue with the data propagation to our content delivery network. Or in terms that I'm more used to, there may have been an issue when delivering the update today. At this point, if you're not seeing the above example in your Monster Builder or if you check the version and it's anything other than Build 1.0.112.0, please download and apply the update again.
If that still doesn't work you may want to delete and reinstall Adventure Tools completely.
Hey guys. So we've done a bit of checking and it looks like there were some isues fixed in this most recent update taht some of you aren't seeing for some reason.
Specifically, the alternate speeds bug mentioned above was addressed. Looking through the updated AT, the Blizzard Dragon Wyrmling should have a speed 6 icewalk and the Ultrademon Schemer should have speed 7 phasing.
After touching base with the studio, it's possible that there may be an issue with the data propogation to our content delivery network. Or in terms that I'm more used to, there may have been an issue when delivering the update today. At this point, if you're not seeing the above example in your Monster Builder or if you check the version and it's anything other than Build 1.0.112.0, please download and apply the update again.
If that still doesn't work you may want to delete and reinstall Adventure Tools completely.
Thanks Trevor.
Thanks!
Thanks!
i have the correct update and the changes Trevor talked about are correct in my MB.
The changes he mentioned are there, but my version is still buggy. Here's the test: Take an existing monster (I just used the Ultrodemon Trevor mentioned) and hit "edit a copy". Check the powers and you'll notice that recharges have reverted to numbers (not dice) and the triggers for triggered actions have disappeared. This was the bug everyone was hating the most. Having to retype triggers was infuriating.
Now, I have not yet tried the full delete and reinstall. I'll be doing that next. But I can't see how that will make it better. But I'll try and post again.
unfortunately, the biggest single problem, that of the disappearing triggers, is still there
this of course makes it very very bad and infuriating, since you are forced to edit a monster before you can export it, so you lose the data
trevor, what would be helpful is if you could tell us all of the bugs that were fixed
ps i have verified the rpga monsters are gone, so instead of getting the mb with fixed bugs, i have lost the rpga monsters and it still doesnt work
ps i have verified the rpga monsters are gone, so instead of getting the mb with fixed bugs, i have lost the rpga monsters and it still doesnt work
Awww, Trevor... can we get those back for the old MB? Is there any reason not to have them in the Classic?
Ideally:
- Fix the current issues with the MB and add the Dark Sun content
- Then with the online MB, if you must, remove the RPGA content.
The reason for this is that if the RPGA monsters are in a functional version of the Classic MB we can then export them and hopefully re-import to the online MB. In theory, just one of us has to do the export (I'm about halfway done, but a bit worried about bugs) and then we could all share the exports.
Right now it sounds as if we still need an additional fix to the old MB so it functions properly.
in the end im always going to be a subscriber, so im sure ill be using the new one going forward. the bad part is not so much what data never made it in, but that it got broken months ago and left that way.
i guess in a way im grateful they addressed some of the bugs. maybe this was as far as they had gotten before they made the switch to making web based tools. kind of like the cb update that was just kind of partway updated.
i cant be that mad though the vt will revolutionize dnd
After installing the update, I found that the search parameters for Source include such oddities as "Advanced Dungeon Master Guide," "Dragon Magazine 403," "Hero Builder's Handbook," and all manner of books that either don't exist or don't have monsters. The books I don't see are the Dark Sun books. Or the Essentials books (such as Monster Vault). There's even book titles I haven't heard of.
Thoughts?
ps i have verified the rpga monsters are gone, so instead of getting the mb with fixed bugs, i have lost the rpga monsters and it still doesnt work
This is really ridiculous. Trevor, can you please tell us why the RPGA monsters were removed? Seriously man, why delete material? Is this a copywrite/IP thing? It makes NO SENSE AT ALL.
This update actually makes the MB worse, not better. I'm very disappointed.
It is really a good thing if WotC can fix the issues with the Classic MB and provide Dark Sun content. There is a lot of need for that. I'm not the only one that at least once a week has to use the old MB, then correct and re-correct various monsters (sometimes at the table when I realize there is a mistake). I'm also not the only one running a Dark Sun home campaign (or writing adventures for an organized campaign...) and having to hand-create every single monster.
This is a really welcome announcement and I just hope the team can complete what they started. I would also really like to see the RPGA monsters back - no reason to remove them from the Classic MB. I think this is all a worthy cause that really will make the user base happier.
The bugs that I encounter every session, if not nearly every monster, is the trigger disappearance and the recharge dissapearance.
I was so excited to hear that the Adventure tools was updated.
And then I updated it.
So now the "Upgraded" Monster Builder is nearly as bad as it was, yet with missing monsters.
I don't want to complain, but
COME ON, MAN!
Put out a better product each month, not worse.
Well, I can understand not liking deleted content but the RPGA monsters really sucked and I personally avoided them at all cost.
As for the trigger bug: yeah. That should have probably been priority one. Oh well. I'll just use the books, compendium and a pencil like I used to and wait for the online builder to come around.
I notice in the update it says no data update.
My subscription expired yesterday and when I first read this update was coming in I felt a bit gutted that I can't install it.
Reading this thread and the other one about the compendium "update" it sounds like WoTC scored another own goal with D&Di, so I haven't missed out on much.
Sitting on the outside and looking in is much more fun, and far less annoying.
But youre still inside Mark.
Still have the DDi logo (as of December 8) So stop laughting and update it if you want it.
WoTC takes a few days to process expired subscriptions.
Grab it while its there.
Plague
My subscription expired yesterday and when I first read this update was coming in I felt a bit gutted that I can't install it.
Reading this thread and the other one about the compendium "update" it sounds like WoTC scored another own goal with D&Di, so I haven't missed out on much.
Sitting on the outside and looking in is much more fun, and far less annoying.
But youre still inside Mark.
Still have the DDi logo (as of December 8) So stop laughting and update it if you want it.
WoTC takes a few days to process expired subscriptions.
Grab it while its there.
Plague
Nope. I just get "Login Failed" and a window about subscribing. Lol
It knows I'm no longer a member of WoTC's inner sanctum.
I have been liberated!!
The trouble is it's only a matter of time until I get frustrated with being on the outside and re-sub anyway.
Oh well, c'est la vie.
As for the RPGA content being removed, that's in line with what we did with the Character Builder to make sure that all the content that we push out has gone through our normal R&D processes. This was just done to keep that standard and to make sure that the content for the downloadable tool matches the web tool as closely as possible. All that said, I definitely get that losing access to content is no fun, and I've made sure to let the studio know about this. Again, we don't have another update planned for the downloadable AT, and this more recent update is most likely going to be the last one. If that changes, I'll definitely let you guys know.
It would be really nice to remove the remaining bugs. I appreciate your taking that message back to them. There is a lot of desire for a working MB classic to tide us over until the online tools are ready.
As we've been saying, most of us, information, even bad, is better, much better then none.
so make a toast to the old mb, fare thee well old friend, fare thee well
i agree with that
so make a toast to the old mb, fare thee well old friend, fare thee well
Agreed, it's good to have some information, and it's nice to know that some effort to clean up that last update was being made. But lossing triggers when you edit a monster is nearly crippling.
Please fix this. I've got a list of 5 or so problems, and triggers is the one that hurts most.
At a guess triggers and recharges and movement are all likely the same bug. I'd be overjoyed at anything that fixed all of them. But if only one can be fixed please fix triggers.
Please fix the rest of the major bugs. Probably wouldn't be too hard.
Regardless of whether or not it is decided to do a "really final this time!" bugfix update for the offline Monster Tools (and I urge you to do so), I would like you to press on the studio the importance that similar data-modification bugs in the online tool are quashed before it reaches beta, let alone production.
A large proportion of the value of the DDI subscription is derived from the tools, and if they are of poor quality and more troublesome to use than manual methods of achieving the same tasks, our incentive to remain subscribed becomes greatly diminished.
Thanks again for the information, and I look forward to your next update.
Good thing the downloadable version of AT is free. The least WotC could do is back-off their PoS "update" and allow folks to get back to what the MB was like 48 hours ago.
Again, wow. It's a good thing WotC products have great art, because there ain't much else getting done right around here. The Compendium has rapidly become the only tool in D&DI worth the subscription. Please, please don't screw it up, too.
It's a total bummer about the trigger bug not being fixed. Hopefully the web version is release quickly (not soon) and bug free. There's lots of us DM's out there who NEED the monster builder and would gladly beta it for you so that the final product is as bug free as possible. I hope you take advantage of all the free labor we are offering to you.
Now cant wait to roll with the new caddie. Cant wait to see the new Monster Builder.
Trevor, if you have a little screenshot of the new MB and you want to share, feel free huh. Anytime you want brother....anytime
Trevor wrote: From the Studio:
The frenzy of releasing a whole new integrated system of tools has been very high these last six months. There are still a few more things we’d like to get done before the holidays, including an update to the character builder and the adventure tools mentioned above. Once that’s done, the Studio will collectively take a well-earned vacation to spend with their respective families. Though it may be a bit early, everyone from the D&DI studio wishes you all Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
Early Happy Holiday to you and your staff and a happy new year as well !
Plague
So this was intended to be the last update for the downloadable Adventure Tools...
I am very sorry but your entire DDI policy is so competely made out of fail it starts getting funny.
First you give out an update that introduces a truck load of bugs, and then you give us one glorious last update that does nothing more than taking stuff away, fixing nothing - without even mentioning what you intend to do! Instead you claim the exact opposite - bugs will be fixed and no content update! Ok it was no content update but content removal...
And you think this will help your cause?
I can understand your motives, I can understand delays in software development. But I really have problems to grasp how you think you will keep any subscribers by pulling off stunts like this.
Whoever is in charge of making these decisions needs additional training in basic marketing and community skills. Sorry.
P.S.: At least fix the release notes! Replace the wrong information under Adventures Tools Update with "We removed the RPGA content from the Adventure Tools."
Whoever is in charge of making these decisions needs additional training in basic marketing and community skills.
^^ This.
I am very sorry but your entire DDI policy is so competely made out of fail it starts getting funny.
Had a game session last night and one of my players who is a DDI subscriber said the following:
"This month subscribing to DDI is like being the only sober guy at a party full of drunks. You know you should probably leave, but you keep hanging around to see what kind of crazy stuff will happen next."
We all laughed pretty hard at that.
Regardless Thank you WotC for taking the time to ensure we have a product that functions before you come out with it's replacement that will understandably have issues on launch. At least we have something to fall back on. Its not perfect but its better and that's a step in the right direction.
This is a huge step in the way WotC does business. I only wish they would do the same for the offline CB The last patch broke that one to the point several classes can not be made in it anymore.
Regardless Thank you WotC for taking the time to ensure we have a product that functions before you come out with it's replacement that will understandably have issues on launch. At least we have something to fall back on. Its not perfect but its better and that's a step in the right direction.
But they didn't do this. They didn't fix any of the bugs that give us issue. They just removed the RPGA monsters that were sub-par in design. Whether it was intentional or not they told us another lie. So the only thing they are doing that is nice is the letting us download the offline monster builder until the online one does what it's supposed to do.
I wouldn't call that a lie so much as not knowing how people use your software.
Someone had posted that an easy fix is to edit the power, change the damage type from Normal to None, then back.. and it should apply the "new" math.. problem is, most creatures I try this with just causes the MB to freeze up and then crash.
Even after this latest bug fix, it still crashes
Can still manually edit the monsters and \get them up to snuff that way, if you have the time.
Wow. What a fine mess WotC has created with this SNAFU. I am glad I did not update my Adventure Tools. Thanks for the warnings from the posters to this thread. Talk about a big middle finger to your customers - pushing out a bad patch and then abandoning the astonished (and inconceivably loyal) users who find themselves worse off for their troubles.
That's twice now, lest anyone forget - the final update to the offline Character Builder was like that too. Introduced multiple new bugs, didn't fix any existing ones that I know of, contained only a fraction of the content that had been promised two months earlier, and deleted roughly as much as it added (again, mostly oddball stuff from RPGA adventures).
So this was intended to be the last update for the downloadable Adventure Tools, and I wasn't actually 100% sure we were going to do this at all, which is why I didn't mention it in any of my updates. The trigger and recharge disappearing bugs are still there, and I've passed that along to the studio in the off chance that we end up doing another update for these tools, but we don't currently have another one planned.
As for the RPGA content being removed, that's in line with what we did with the Character Builder to make sure that all the content that we push out has gone through our normal R&D processes. This was just done to keep that standard and to make sure that the content for the downloadable tool matches the web tool as closely as possible. All that said, I definitely get that losing access to content is no fun, and I've made sure to let the studio know about this. Again, we don't have another update planned for the downloadable AT, and this more recent update is most likely going to be the last one. If that changes, I'll definitely let you guys know.
Again, I appreciate the candor and realize you are not the one making decisions like this, and I wish you didn't keep getting pushed into the position of being the bearer of bad news. However, in light of the bolded passage in particular, I don't understand how this could even be passed off as a bugfix update. I'm not blaming you personally but there seems to be some very real disingenuousness there on WotC's part, something I had hoped was now behind us.
Trevor mentioned the speed bug. I don't know if anything else was fixed.
Except they didn't fix the speed bug. Official monsters display their speed correctly when you first view them, but as soon as you press "Edit a Copy", they become screwed up.
It sounds like they either don't understand what the bugs are or can't even be bothered to spend five minutes on QA before approving the bug-fix update. Neither possibility gives me much confidence they'll be able to build a functioning online monster builder.
Trevor mentioned the speed bug. I don't know if anything else was fixed.
Except they didn't fix the speed bug. Official monsters display their speed correctly when you first view them, but as soon as you press "Edit a Copy", they become screwed up.
It sounds like they either don't understand what the bugs are or can't even be bothered to spend five minutes on QA before approving the bug-fix update. Neither possibility gives me much confidence they'll be able to build a functioning online monster builder.
If that is the case, then I guess there is no reason to apply the update at all. Does anyone know of one?
Trevor mentioned the speed bug. I don't know if anything else was fixed.
Except they didn't fix the speed bug. Official monsters display their speed correctly when you first view them, but as soon as you press "Edit a Copy", they become screwed up.
It sounds like they either don't understand what the bugs are or can't even be bothered to spend five minutes on QA before approving the bug-fix update. Neither possibility gives me much confidence they'll be able to build a functioning online monster builder.
If that is the case, then I guess there is no reason to apply the update at all. Does anyone know of one?
I was just wondering that myself. Were any known problems (that existed outside of WotC's collective mind, so "there was untested stuff from RPGA modules in there" doesn't count[1]) fixed by this update?
[1] - Actually, this might count as a problem if the alternative was replacing them with fully developed versions. But if the choices are between leaving the rough and possibly flawed versions in, with an understanding that they are rough and possibly flawed, and deleting them altogether, neither is ideal but the first seems preferable.
I grabbed the list of all the things that were addressed in this most recent (and most likely last) patch for the downloadable adventure tools. Looks like some crashes issues that some were experiencing as well as a quite a few issues with information displaying/calculating incorrectly. Anyway, here you go:
- Clicking on the sword icon under the ref. list causes a crash
- Crash when Create New Button is clicked
- Clicking any reset button on any panel on the left during a monster edit will delete all powers from every section
- Crash when saving a new monster
- Crash if user clicks expand button on "other powers"
- Unable to add a large number of languages - languages not displaying correctly
- Dragging a triggered action into a standard action will duplicates the power in the triggered actions panel
- Powers with no attack or damage bonus list damage when editing that power
- Some Monsters are not displaying powers that do not have attacks
- Custom monsters that use official monsters, but have no changes, show all powers as being blank
- Newly Created Minion Damage is calculated incorrectly
- RAM usage increasing each time you make a change
- Monsters with different speed types are not displaying them
- Speed and Resistance are listed in opposite orders if compared to MM3
- MM3 Swarm Devil is missing Close blast font for "Spew of Flies" attack power
- MM3 Howler Terror Incarnate monster has "Hit" text missing. Aftereffects text is in place of Hit text
- MM3 Intellect Glutton missing special text under Mind Rend power
- MM3 Mossling Guardian power Simulacrum Attack has Effect written in the wrong place
- MM3 Fist of the Stone Tyrant monster, has a power with effects in the wrong order
- Anise the Chaos Warrior missing Source
- Selecting a role for a monster does not dynamically update its defenses
- Some data from MM2 is missing from powers
- Damage for monsters in MM2 around level 14-18 have a rounding issue in regards to damage
- Powers that do damage, but do not have a damage bonus, are getting a damage bonus added to that power
- Copyright says 2009 in RTF export
- Crash when starting Monster Builder
- Unable to change the order of powers
- Monster filter does not dynamically update if the minimum level is changed
- Welcome screen details obsolete information in the regarding the reference list
- Berserker Prelate of Demogorgon - Death Fury is marked as Trait, it should be minor action
- Orc Wolf Shaman has no powers
- Text Fields for Miss and Effect (Powers) do not allow text entry
- Damage and dice for damage defaults to a value of 8 for damage and 10 for dice. Changing one value may wipe out another value
- Dragging and dropping an entire monster from the holding pen, to a monster edit window results in a state that looks frozen
- Unable to drag and drop powers from the left pane to the Holding pen
- Sorting doesn't work on Powers Column headers
- User can't delete custom monster from monster list
- Eater of Knowledge Mindstrike Mindfield aura missing
- Latency when clicking "powers" button on right under Ref Lists
- Creating a Power with no attack, the user must open an attack section in that power to print an effect
- Some powers in the powers list do not have the right art/format, and cannot be dragged and dropped
- Dragging a custom monster to the Holding pen will change the custom power damage
- Attack bonus does not dynamically update when monsters level is increased
- Gravehound is listed as having low-light vision in the Compendium and Monster Builder and should have Dark vision
- Several Monsters were listed as the wrong origin keyword
- The art/format is off after clicking on the expansion button when creating a new power
- Traits displaying program object information
- D&D fonts not working in RTF Export
And end with saying, none of these were my problems with the MB since the patch that removed triggers and recharge numbers.
Is the "Upgraded" Monster Builder coming soon?
You know, the one I won't be able to use at work anymore, because it will be online only?
So, ok you fixed some bugs and thank you for that.
These where not the bugs I encountered, but at least something was done.
Copyright says 2009 in RTF export
lol.
(I appreaciate the work guys, really but lol)
Copyright says 2009 in RTF export
lol.
(I appreaciate the work guys, really but lol)
Yeah, I did the same Nick, and I almost pulled it from the list as I was making it - but decided against it just so you could have the full list that I saw
I'm not saying these aren't worthwhile fixes, and I realize there is a mentality that stability is all-important, but they all involve problems I don't recall running across or seeing much outcry on the boards about. The only one of the bugs that I remember having a conspicuous, negative effect on my experience of the monster builder that appears on the above list is the one with dragging and dropping powers. In terms of actually making the software usable for its intended purpose, it seems to me that effort could have been better directed elsewhere. I'll tolerate occasional crashes to a much greater extent than I'll tolerate software being basically unusable for what it's designed to do.
Okay, stuff did get fixed, most notably multiple crash bugs, a problem akin to a memory leak, and a lot of incorrect information.
I'm not saying these aren't worthwhile fixes, and I realize there is a mentality that stability is all-important, but they all involve problems I don't recall running across or seeing much outcry on the boards about. The only one of the bugs that I remember having a conspicuous, negative effect on my experience of the monster builder that appears on the above list is the one with dragging and dropping powers. In terms of actually making the software usable for its intended purpose, it seems to me that effort could have been better directed elsewhere. I'll tolerate occasional crashes to a much greater extent than I'll tolerate software being basically unusable for what it's designed to do.
+1
How many plusses are we allowed to give that comment?
One for each person you represent...
Thank you very much for the information.
I will keep on hoping (against hope) that the offline MB will make a comeback, get properly fixed, get intergrated with an encounter builder and have a little less "shiny" and a little more "oomph".
But, again, thank you for the information about what was done.
As an asside, be wary of saying : "No content update" when, in actuallity, there IS content update. The "Oh! But what I meant was..." is a big part of the source of all the hard feelings.
Thank you very much for the information.
I will keep on hoping (against hope) that the offline MB will make a comeback, get properly fixed, get intergrated with an encounter builder and have a little less "shiny" and a little more "oomph".
But, again, thank you for the information about what was done.
As an asside, be wary of saying : "No content update" when, in actuallity, there IS content update. The "Oh! But what I meant was..." is a big part of the source of all the hard feelings.
You mean the UNDATE. Where they took out RPGA stuff?
...As an asside, be wary of saying : "No content update" when, in actuallity, there IS content update. The "Oh! But what I meant was..." is a big part of the source of all the hard feelings.
You mean the UNDATE. Where they took out RPGA stuff?
Yes, that is what I meant : update = change, not simply addition. If there is change, there is an update.
Learning about changes after the fact creates a sens of being mislead : wether there is cause for revolt from the situation or not.