Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kilsek_of_Sheverash Jan 11, 2011 15:24:45	Dwarven Weapon Training (dwarf racial feature) The online D&D Compendium and the D&D Character Builder's Character Sheet (not the Builder itself, but its Character Sheet) have different versions of Dwarven Weapon Proficiency. It should read "You gain proficiency with the throwing hammer and the warhammer," but the Character Builder's Character Sheet reads incorrectly as "Proficient with hammers." This bug is allowing a dwarf warden, for example, to gain superior hammers' (i.e. Craghammer) proficiency bonus to hit, for "free," without having to spend a feat as usual for a superior weapon. Edit: underlined text corrected/clarified
#2 thespaceinvader Jan 11, 2011 16:14:51	Note: There are two different things in question here: Dwarven Weapon Proficiency, the racial ability which gets you Warhammer and Throwing Hammer (IIRC) and Dwarven Weapon Training, the feat which gets you all axes and hammers.  I assume you mean the former, not the latter.  Being clear would help. But yeah, a better description of the former would help.  Note, however, that your character sheet is NOT rules text - the rules for your Dwarf's racial abilities can be found in the books, or on the Compendium.  Just because the text on your sheet is incorrect doesn't change the rules - or indeed, what items you can access in the builder itself. Should be clarified though.  But given past history on correcting simple data-entry bugs, I wouldn't anticipate it happening any time soon.
#3 Travesty Jan 11, 2011 16:28:11	Dwarven Weapon Training is a feat that provides proficiency with and +2 damage feat bonus for all axes and hammers.  The Racial Trait you are referring to ("You gain proficiency with the throwing hammmer and the warhammer") is Dwarven Weapon Proficiency. While I agree that the text in the CB Character Sheet isn't completely accurate, I am unable to duplicate any proficiency bonus with superior weapons being applied unless a feat such as Dwarven Weapon Training is taken by the character.
#4 Kilsek_of_Sheverash Jan 12, 2011 14:07:44	Dwarven Weapon Proficiency (dwarf racial feature) is what I meant to say across the board, my apologizes.  If you pull up the Character Sheets in the Builder, you'll see that Dwarven Weapon Proficiency does not match the rules text in either the Builder itself under Race, or the online Compendium.  On the character sheets, under Racial Features, Dwarven Weapon Proficiency reads some nonsensical rules description that isn't found anywhere: "Proficient with hammers."  This is allowing, for example, a dwarf warden to select and use the profiency bonus of a superior craghammer, for "free."
#5 Kilsek_of_Sheverash Jan 12, 2011 15:48:33	I figured out the bug in more detail by doing the following (please replicate and you'll see).  It appears the bug is specific to the Craghammer and/or Weapon Proficiency with the Craghammer, and/or an interaction with the Marketplace: 1) Creat a new dwarf warden, level 1. 2) Take the feat Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer. 3) Go the marketplace and add a Craghammer.  4) Back to builder and Equip the Craghammer.    5) Note your attack powers' bonus includes the proficiency bonus. 6) Deselect/unchoose your feat Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer (while it's still equipped). 7) Note that your powers' attack bonus has not changed with the loss of the feat.  You can take any new feat and the proficiency bonus "ghost" still stays with the character.  Thus, you've now picked up proficiency with the Craghammer for free.
#6 thespaceinvader Jan 12, 2011 16:53:48	Yeah, the builder has trouble with that sort of thing.  It's really not good at coping with times where you change choices.  Heck, there's a known bug that carries over the Dwarf's racial resist to poison when you make a completely new character.  Because it's buggy as hell.  But I doubt it's down to Dwarven anything - try it with a non-Dwarf character, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens. Also, on a totally different note, why are you taking Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer on a Dwarf anyway?  Take Dwarven Weapons Training, you get the same bonus, plus extra damage ;)
#7 drnick Jan 12, 2011 17:26:19	Yeah it doesn't seem to clear the state correctly between characters (and aparently between choices). Here's to hoping this changes on Tuesday.
#8 Plaguescarred1 Jan 12, 2011 21:36:21	I figured out the bug in more detail by doing the following (please replicate and you'll see).  It appears the bug is specific to the Craghammer and/or Weapon Proficiency with the Craghammer, and/or an interaction with the Marketplace: 1) Creat a new dwarf warden, level 1. 2) Take the feat Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer. 3) Go the marketplace and add a Craghammer.  4) Back to builder and Equip the Craghammer.    5) Note your attack powers' bonus includes the proficiency bonus. 6) Deselect/unchoose your feat Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer (while it's still equipped). 7) Note that your powers' attack bonus has not changed with the loss of the feat.  You can take any new feat and the proficiency bonus "ghost" still stays with the character.  Thus, you've now picked up proficiency with the Craghammer for free. I just did and there was no bug. I created one, selected and then removed Weapon Proficiency: Craghammer to pick instead Dodge Giants, and the Prof. bonus to attack roll was not there anymore, going from +6 to + 4 (18 STR) (make sure your other Feat you select is not Dwarven Weapon Training, or else proficiency to Craghammer will be retained.)
#9 thespaceinvader Jan 13, 2011 3:35:30	Yeah, don't forget to add step 8: choose another feat instead.  That ought to fix the issue.  Let us know, somewhere.