Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 semifamous Apr 06, 2010 15:12:13	Graurg, my half-orc sorcerer of Chaos With a Capital C, would like to rip someone's arms off. (Grr. Arg.) He uses daggers. He uses them as implements and as weapons. He used to have Focused Expertise, which gave him +1 to all attack rolls, Implement and Weapon. Now, with Versatile Expertise, he can have either +1 to dagger weapon attacks or +1 to dagger implement attacks. Why does choosing something from the weapon group exclude it from the implement group? What about swordmages? Will nobody think of the children and their melee spellcasters? Fix: Choosing something from one group should not exclude it from the other group. Someone should be able to choose Light Blades in both groups, otherwise this feat is useless for many melee spellcasters who would otherwise love it.
#2 Stafir_Ortnev Apr 06, 2010 15:18:52	Before posting it dosn't work, please check and make sure it isn't working.  I updated my halfling sorcerer to this feat as well..and while yes it does exclude the choice if you choose it from one group...check the bonuses your attacks get, as my sorcerer gets the light blade (IE dagger) and Staff (chose for the heck of it) bonus to both his impliment powers...and his basic attacks where applicable. Please make sure this isn't the case with your sorc as well...while I find it wierd that it would work for halfling and not half-orcs..I'm not going to put it past wizards to have wierd programming .
#3 semifamous Apr 06, 2010 15:52:39	Then my head is broken? Because if you choose an implement, you should got a bonus with implement attacks, and if you choose a weapon, you should get a bonus with weapon attacks. I guess it's worded in a way to be used like this, but it still makes my head hurt. Graurg won't get to rip arms off after all, since the CB shows the right numbers (and also since is STR isn't high enough,) but it just doesn't make sense to me as is.
#4 Stafir_Ortnev Apr 06, 2010 15:57:11	Ok then..yours works that way too...I honestly think its a bug as well...but when reporting a bug its best to get all the info worded so its understood whats going on. The way its put in the book...reading it strictly as written...I think it could work the way it is working (As in character builder could easily be correct), but I honestly think its working wrong...and either way it needs clarifying errata to clarify what is ment by the feat.
#5 dowanroden Apr 06, 2010 17:49:38	Actually, if you don't pick the second one in Class the builder applies both bonuses to the first selection.  That said, though, the builder is rather OCD about your not picking a second weapon/implement.
#6 Stafir_Ortnev Apr 06, 2010 17:53:29	And if you do pick a second it applies both bonuses to both selections :P.  Which was kinna my point.
#7 dowanroden Apr 06, 2010 17:58:42	Odd, I hadn't noticed that when I had picked a second option.  Might be a bug, especially considering that when I do pick said feat and save at level 30 my character becomes inaccessible do to the error, "XML: &...;character name is too long in c./savedcharacter.dnd4e:804 column 4."  The only change to the character being the inclusion of Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blades).
#8 KarmaInferno Apr 07, 2010 22:14:24	It's not a bug. The feat in PH3 actually works that way. VERSATILE EXPERTISE Benefit: Choose a weapon group and an implement type. You gain a +1 feat bonus to attack rolls both when using a weapon from the chosen group and when using an implement of the chosen type. The bonus increases to +2 at 15th leve1 and +3 at 25th level. Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take this feat, choose a different weapon group and a different implement type. No mention is made of any weapon or implement keywords required in powers used. -karma
#9 dowanroden Apr 08, 2010 21:40:05	Odd, I hadn't noticed that when I had picked a second option.  Might be a bug, especially considering that when I do pick said feat and save at level 30 my character becomes inaccessible do to the error, "XML: &...;character name is too long in c./savedcharacter.dnd4e:804 column 4."  The only change to the character being the inclusion of Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blades). I know, I'm quoting myself, but I have to say this.  Seems I was wrong about the bug I listed, after a couple more test builds it seems it's Eternal Seeker Paragon Multiclassing that's broken and not Versatile Expertise.  Still not like the feat doesn't have bugs, just that I must retract my prevous statement.