Can't houserule Hybrid?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

aliothefool

Jan 22, 2010 5:39:58
I'm looking over the latest CB update, and trying to create a Hybrid. Personally, I don't care if it "breaks the game" I want to allow my players to choose the Hybrid Talent feat more than once. The Character Builder won't allow that though, even if you select "Show Illegal Elements."

Is it possible to "fix" this to allow someone to introduce this houserule? TIA
#2

arakis

Jan 22, 2010 18:53:43
Complicate. You can create a custom feat named "hybrid talent II"; "hybrid talent III" etc... Next you create an additional custom power whit the appropriate description. Note that both will not affect the automatic maths of the CB, and yo have to do the correction manually on the actual papers.

I do not know if this is helpful, but at least allow you to have the custom power cards and  the powers/feats written down on the charsheet.

And no, you cannot have the custom features written by the CB on the appropriate sections: again, you have to write them manually on the paper.
#3

melos

Jan 23, 2010 1:02:54
You can get a second Hybrid Talent.

1. go to the Feats section and select an empty feat slot
2. click the houserule button and choose to Create Custom Element
3. In the name box type in Paragon Hybrid Talent, then click Add Custom
#4

aliothefool

Jan 23, 2010 12:05:44
Okay, I added the Paragon Hybrid Talent and was able to use it at level 2. I was also able to still add the Paragon Hybrid option. However, that was it. I wasn't able to create another instance of the Hybrid Talent through feats. When trying to use the same name, it just doesn't create anything new. When doing something like writing "Paragon Hybrid Talent II" it creates the feat, but doesn't allow me to choose yet another class feature.

I'd really like it to allow me to add whatever class features I want. Granted, it's completely illegal. I just don't care. My players are all too powerful anyway, so giving them access is no big deal to me. It's not going to make them "more" out of balance.

Thanks for the suggestion Melos. It definitely helps. Arakis, obviously I can write my own stuff in, but like I said in another thread, if I'm going to write things in, I don't need to pay for DDi. Wink
#5

Kaviyd3

Jan 24, 2010 0:04:58
The problem you are trying to work around is that the Character Builder generally will not let you add any feat more than once.  Those feats that you can add more than once (such as Weapon Proficiency) are actually multiple feats in the Character Builder.  Since Hybrid Talent is not listed more than once, you can only get it a second time as a Paragon Path feature.

However -- many of the Hybrid Talent options correspond to other feats that you could add to the character since you are going to make it houseruled anyway.  For example, instead of taking Paladin Armor Proficiency, you could add each of the Armor Proficiency feats that the Hybrid Paladin lacks. 

Similarly, other Hybrid Talent options correspond to powers that you can add in a similar manner -- so you could take a Channel Divinity power in that way.

Options that do not interact with other attributes could be added as extra custom feats.

The only case not covered would be one where you want to take two or more options that interact with other attributes but do not correspond to feats -- but offhand I cannot think of any such cases. 


#6

arakis

Jan 24, 2010 4:50:00
There is a way you can add a second Hybrid talent, but jut once.
Try "show illegal elements" and look around in the heroic feats, there should be the Paragorn Hybrid Talent from the Hybrid Pargorn Path.

Since you''re allowing it as common feat I highly doubt someone will ever take this PP, being the 2nd feat his most appreciated feature.

Anyway, I repeat it, it's just once. If some of you players need a 3rd hybrid talent you have to write it down yourself. Btw, if a char need 3 HT to work, the player should considerate a pure class + MC... But it's just an opinion.

Ho, and you are payng for the CB to build proper D&D chars, not your houseruled version, so do not complain. Any degree of customization is great in a RPG software, but it is not its main reason to exist. I myself hope for a better workinng of customs, especially whit weapons and items, and maybe one day to be able to fully work my housemade powers and feats.
But I do not expect it: it is reasonable that the CB do just that: build -common- D&Dcharacters.
#7

parvatiquinta

Jan 24, 2010 17:32:46
Some of us are paying for a tool that does the math for us and prints neat power cards, within a houseruled game (whether it's a setting with its own peculiar races or whatever), not being fussed with proper D&D or any kind of official circuit. And we do feel that integrating house rule elements in the database is not too much to ask technically. Sure, we may be wrong...
#8

Kaviyd3

Jan 24, 2010 19:31:01
I think you have your answer then -- you can dig up that "Paragon Hybrid Talent" feat to get a second occurrence of Hybrid Talent, and you can add "illegal" feats or powers for many of the possible hybrid talents.  If a talent option does not interact with other attributes in any way, you can add it as a custom feat.  It takes some clever manipulation, but I think you can get the Character Builder to give you what you want in this case.  The only thing you don't get is verification that your character is legal in all ways except for taking multiple hybrid talents.

A couple of other points I noticed:

1) The case cited for why Wizards allows only one occurrence of Hybrid Talent at heroic tier is the interaction between the fighter and rogue talents that each give +1 to hit with certain weapons.  But that combination is still available and probably still overpowered as a paragon hybrid option.  Would it not be better just to errata such features so that they don't stack?  There can't be too many other such cases that would need fixing if they allowed Hybrid Talent to be taken more than once.

2) I also noticed that the Character Builder allows Hybrid Talent armor options that grant the character no benefit -- for example, a Druid/Ranger can get either class's armor proficiency option even though that combination is already proficient with the armor of both classes. 
#9

aliothefool

Jan 25, 2010 5:56:12
For the record, I made a feature request that I'm interested in. I never said I expect it. It's a houserule feature that I'd like to see put in. It's a product I pay a subscription fee for, so I don't see a problem with me requesting a feature that I consider an enhancement in a forum dedicated to feedback for the tool.

I don't know about the adding feats to make up for the HT feat. Armor feats, for example, would require multiple feats, whereas one HT would give all the armor the person wants to add.

Again, it would be a houserule feature, so it's up to me as a DM to deal with. Given the other ways you can houserule your character in the CB, additional HT feats is really not the worst illegal element you can add.
#10

pauln6

Jan 25, 2010 7:36:49
I think you have your answer then -- you can dig up that "Paragon Hybrid Talent" feat to get a second occurrence of Hybrid Talent, and you can add "illegal" feats or powers for many of the possible hybrid talents.  If a talent option does not interact with other attributes in any way, you can add it as a custom feat.  It takes some clever manipulation, but I think you can get the Character Builder to give you what you want in this case.  The only thing you don't get is verification that your character is legal in all ways except for taking multiple hybrid talents.

A couple of other points I noticed:

1) The case cited for why Wizards allows only one occurrence of Hybrid Talent at heroic tier is the interaction between the fighter and rogue talents that each give +1 to hit with certain weapons.  But that combination is still available and probably still overpowered as a paragon hybrid option.  Would it not be better just to errata such features so that they don't stack?  There can't be too many other such cases that would need fixing if they allowed Hybrid Talent to be taken more than once.




It's only a problem with Tempest Technique I think and even then you are giving up your ranged options (I suppose you can take the feat that lets you thrown melee weapons too but a feat tax is fine).  Using fighter powers with a dagger is going to be below par.  You can't have brutal scoundrel and weapon talent AND tempest technique so there are balancing factors there.  Plus your rogue powers will lose a bit of synergy without the extra secondary effects.  No doubt there are still some powers that would make this an effective combination though.