The two formats we have are called "Essentials" and "Character Builder." I personally love the "Character Builder" format so I'll start with that one.
Without further preamble, here's the first page:
This first page has all the basics stats you would need from a quick glance including skills, defenses, hit points, attacks and passive numbers. This fits the same basic format I used for a lot of my character sheet builds in previous versions of the builder so I'm pretty happy with it. I often put my feats on that first page too after moving some fields around, but I'm really happy with how they look in this format as well. On that note, here's the second page:
I really like the space devoted to feats here - I don't have to worry about missing some of the feat information or having all that text crowded together. Same thing with Racial and class features. I leveled up the character I was using for previous examples up to 11 to grab some more feats and a paragon path so we could see some more of this space used.
I also want to note that I chose a class feature that might have the most text in the game - Wild Magic. I was relatively certain that the character sheet wouldn't include all the charts and text found in the book, but I wanted to see what it did actually display. This is one of those cases where you'll want to print off a copy of the charts and keep it with your character as the charts don't ever change as you level.
And to the last page with character info and equipment:
I didn't fill out everything as fully as I could have, but you should get a good idea of the features and available space on the sheet. The equipment slots easily show what's equipped where and is a good way to verify if you've equipped something of it's just sitting around in your inventory, and I love all the space dedicated to character info. But enough about what I like, let me know what you think.
I'll be back tomorrow and I'll add the "Essentials" character sheet that you've probably seen a few times already and I'll try to answer any questions about the sheets that are brought up. And also for your viewing pleasure (and possibly finding some bugs/issues) here are some more powers:
Try again.
I also like the big box for tracking HP. I know this fills up on my sheet quickly, I usually have to erase it once during an encounter.
Thanks Trevor for the sneek peek
Oh one thing Trevor, the Sorcerer Daily Devour Magic is labeled as a Sorcerer Utility 10 at the bottom and clearly this is an Attack Power.
EDITED To Strikethrough
Good looking stuff i like that the spaces for Feats is more large and clear to read. 3 sheets is a bit much though. Definitly like the new Power Cards layout.
Thanks Trevor for the sneek peek
Oh one thing Trevor, the Sorcerer Daily Devour Magic is labeled as a Sorcerer Utility 10 at the bottom and clearly this is an Attack Power.
Nope, it's a utility power (as are all lvl 10 powers).
Second - the character is wielding two implements that he could cast through - but only one of them has calculations done for it in the power cards.
(also kind of sad that it appears that there is no way to show Ensorcelled Blade in place of the Melee Basic attack on the first page)
Please, please, please keep up the high levels of communications - especially about other stuff in the pipeline like what is happpening with the upcoming tools, in future.
Where would a pet, familiar, rituals, go?
Would they get their own dedcated sections added automatically?
Also, i didn't see the Alignment Paragon Path or Epic Destiny anywhere. Nor is a place to see Additional Effects For Spending Actions Points which used to be right under AP.
Also, current Conditions & Effect seem duplicated in the middle of the Sheet and to the right.
Looking good so far. Just one question, will you still be able to change the layout to landscape? My group finds it saves a lot of table space which means more room for the battle mat and snacks 
But enough about what I like, let me know what you think.
Looks sharp. Very readable and well put together. However, the basic attacks section appears as though it could sprawl on forever unless its just tied to the weapons currently armed. Sprawling over pages like that would break the nice layout you have posted. If it is limited to in-use/readied weapons only, I could see it being problematic because it will require an internet connection to swap them out in game. Thus, no quick lookup of the information on the sheet as laid out. I'm guessing we will be using the power cards for multiple weapon situations.
Any hints on what to expect?
Somethings I question, like current effects and conditions, having to write and erease takes it's toll on a character sheet.
I'd personally like to see more color in it, other then the portrait. I think it would be great if in time you could add your own custome design elements, and your own art for a portrait.
I understand if not - it may not have even entered the thought process - but it's a nice-looking sheet.
Other than that, I'm mostly indifferent. I'm guessing that all the white space on the second page is where paragon path/ epic destiny info would go, and more space for those is a plus.
I'll add a +1 to the vote for irrelevant info to be removed from power cards (that may have been on a different thread). If I'm level 10, I don't need to see what the power does at level 21.
I think this sheet will find some decent appeal, but in order for the Char Builder itself to find a wider audience, we will need to see a sheet that is more compact, with more details and less white-space.
Hmmm.... pretty good. I am a player who figures everything you need for your character can be placed on one page and the power cards. So it seems like a LOT of space to me. My players will be thrilled by the whole page for feats etc though (they always complain that their feats and class features get 'cut off' the old sheet).
That being said I would certainly use any other sheet design if it means not using three pages. The third sheet seems a bit superflous.
Something like this sheet that is a slighty more advanced version of the Essentials sheet is perfect in my opinion. ;)
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Thank you for sharing this! I'm gonna poke over the power cards when I get to work.
I noticed on the card page that the name of the armor is cut off. This appears to be due to the inclusion of the masterwork name, which means all masterwork armors will have their name cut off.
Personally I don't care because you can see what armor is equipped by looking at the item slot list, but I suspect that this will drive some people crazy.
Interesting deicision to exclude a box with your ability modifier on the actual sheet.
Sure there is a Check Value section with your half level added in, but a great number of powers and effects require you to add your Mod only...
Additionally it seems as though any character that has more than one weapon of any type (melee or ranged) is going to have a very difficult time with this sheet and power card layout. The font at the top of the power cards for example is simply too big (looking at devour magic, if there was a damage value for it we wouldn't be able to see the calculated total at the top of the card because the text is too long).
If you equip two different melee weapons, does the first page give you two boxes for melee basic attack?
Maybe we could see a ranger or tempest fighter screenshot? ;)
Trevor,
Will there be any ability to modify each field like the current CB has? Or to rearrange them as we see fit?
frothsof, you already transferred your own, so I didn't include it here.
WIll there be enough information on the sheet that you could manually update the sheet IRL int he event you level up, or are unable to maintain a subscription(sometimes life makes paying for subscriptions difficult, and I have to drop out for a couple of months. I have many of the books, so I would have the information to update a character, but would the character sheet provide the necessary math?)
The armor name is cut off on both the power card and the item slot -- there is no way to figure out what the enhancement bonus is without reverse calculating it from the total AC.
I would really like to have the attribute bonuses without half-level added; in fact, I'd rather have that than the other way around, if there's only room for one. I refer to the base attribute bonus way, way more often than I make an ability check.
I'm a big fan of showing the calculations. I think it's good to have a basic default character sheet without that info; I would also like the option of having one with that info.
I would really like to have the attribute bonuses without half-level added; in fact, I'd rather have that than the other way around, if there's only room for one. I refer to the base attribute bonus way, way more often than I make an ability check.
This. I've never met a gamer who couldn't figure out what half his level was, and how to add it into checks. On the other hand, I've noticed that players coming from 2E/AD&D have a hard time figuring out what the attribute bonuses are.
I'm a big fan of showing the calculations. I think it's good to have a basic default character sheet without that info; I would also like the option of having one with that info.
QFT
I'm a big fan of showing the calculations. I think it's good to have a basic default character sheet without that info; I would also like the option of having one with that info.
I'd be cool with a mouseover like effect, so I can see the calcs online if needed, but just have the numbers for the PDF.
NVM, I missed the line about being back tomorrow. I'm a tard.
Also, i didn't see the Alignment Paragon Path or Epic Destiny anywhere.
Yeah I noticed that too (well I noticed the lack of PP and ED, but not Alignment). That seems like a huge shortcoming.
Nor is a place to see Additional Effects For Spending Actions Points which used to be right under AP.
Wasn't that always just on the AP power card? I actually prefer that since the card doubles as an AP "counter" as well, but the AP power card appears to be missing as well (any word on that?).
Also, current Conditions & Effect seem duplicated in the middle of the Sheet and to the right.
Good catch. I guess I'm just quoting this too to reiterate all your findings.
I also think that the Effect text for Action Points and Second Wind really should be removed, or at least an option for it to be removed. That's just a huge waste of space for anyone who has played more than 1 encounter.
I really like the huge space for feats and class powers. Having just the name and a (very) shortened description on the classic sheet often led to our group perusing books in-session to remember exactly how the more complicated feats worked.
Nitpicks and curiosities -
The background section names the background, but doesn't show a benefit. Did you just not pick a mechanical benefit or is that not shown on the sheet? If the latter, I'd like to see that changed so the mechanical benefit selected shows up there.
When a holy symbol is used as an implement, it does not need to be held. Should it have its own slot similar to Ki Focus?
Ritutals - is there a section for these that's hidden because this character doesn't use them? If not, where do they appear?
Thanks again,
-Scot
What kind of testing has this product been through (if any)?
Do any of the testers (if any) play D&D? How could they not have noticed things like the defense for a power not being printed or the bonus for a weapon getting cut off?
I love the layout, by the way, but the poor programming that shows up in the images that were chosen (!) seems to indicate a lack of care or perhaps skill in the creation of this app.
Will all these known bugs/problems be fixed before the the 16th?
There are numerous easy to answer questions that have been asked over and over (Mounts included? Can we have custom portraits, etc. etc And glaringly, where are rituals?) but WOTC has not taken 5 minutes to answer. This is no change from the way things have always been but I did want to note this.
If most of them work well, and there are only isolated problems, which when found are fixed promptly, it's a success. If, however, we find that every other power is bugged, and it's a month or more before these things are fixed(with everything being hosted by them, it shouldn't take a month to fix minor bugs), then there is a problem. thing is, we can't know until it is actually released, so complaining about it now is unneccesary and superfluous.
There are numerous easy to answer questions that have been asked over and over (Mounts included? Can we have custom portraits, etc. etc And glaringly, where are rituals?) but WOTC has not taken 5 minutes to answer. This is no change from the way things have always been but I did want to note this.
you should go back to trevor's post and READ the few sentences just before the power cards, and wait a little.
Trevor is viewing the thread right now by the way.
It would be idiotic to suggest that all bugs will be fixed by release. It would also be disingenuous to suggest that I said that. I was asking about the KNOWN bugs that have cropped up just since WOTC tossed us some crumbs to look at.
Nice sheet...but... Why have the character name AND portrait repeated on the 3 first pages !?! This is a lost of working space !
... good point. Not to mention it's a waste of ink and page room, and therefore paper. Unnecessary repetition FTL, especially when it adds to printing costs.
I think this sheet will find some decent appeal, but in order for the Char Builder itself to find a wider audience, we will need to see a sheet that is more compact, with more details and less white-space.
I agree with thos post.
Nice sheet...but... Why have the character name AND portrait repeated on the 3 first pages !?! This is a lost of working space !
I agree with this post, too.
I would really like to have the attribute bonuses without half-level added; in fact, I'd rather have that than the other way around, if there's only room for one. I refer to the base attribute bonus way, way more often than I make an ability check.
I super-agree with this post. This is one of the most important and frequently referenced pieces of information on the character sheet.
i actually like my character sheets to be neat, clean, compact, and have some other way readily available to confirm the math, which the old, and thus very likely the new, CB sucked at repeatedly.
This first page has all the basics stats you would need from a quick glance including skills, defenses, hit points, attacks and passive numbers. This fits the same basic format I used for a lot of my character sheet builds in previous versions of the builder so I'm pretty happy with it.
So, no way to say this but be blunt (cause I really do appreciate the time and effort put into sharing and answering questions, but)...
What part of "quick glance" includes wasting space on the rules text for APs and Second Wind? Do you know anyone who is likely to re-read that every time they're getting ready to spend one?
My biggest complaint about this version of the sheet is: Simplification for simplification's sake.
It's not easier or better or more intuitive to only list Ability + 1/2 Level in the attribute section. It's simplifying things because that was the buzzword of the day.
Second is poor use of the space in general. There's an overabundance of whitespace in some places - current HP and conditions, feats and class features. And silly use of it elsewhere - the item-slot picture (which, to be honest, isn't very good-looking anyway), the aforementioned rules text.
Guess I'll be hand-writing all my characters until a real sheet comes along...
-VIC
I could waste a lot of space on what I like, but I think areas that I'd like to see improvement on more important (I am trying to avoid any redundancy here):
- Customization. This is the biggest must in the new CB. There has to be the ability to hide/remove some of the redundant information or useless (imo) ink wasting portraits and the like. Even if I decided to use a portrait for some character at some point, I'd only need 1. I am hoping there's still the ability to move things around (the modular style of moving things). I am hopeful that we'll see more customization options going forward (things like Font Sizing would be wonderful).
- Paper Doll use of Equipment Slots. I like the equipment slot look with the other equipment below. No problem there. However, I think there's a lot of wasted space by using the doll. I am pretty sure people know where their feet are.
- Coins. I would like to see the Carrying Capacity sized down. You don't need that so big. Heck, just having that as a text line would work. Instead, I would like to see boxes for Coin Types (heck, even astral diamonds!). Those numbers change a lot more than anything else and being able to update a boxed field would be easier than scrunched up text.
- Powers. This I am only wondering at because we have just a limited view. It is a must that we have the multiple weapon capacity from before. Too many powers for martial classes (especially) are useful with multiple weapons and it's important to see their individual numbers on each power. We could do it with the old CB, so I am hoping it's there in the new. Right now, I use a personalized Magic Set Editor version of Power Cards but would love to see something from the CB that makes me want to stop hand crafting them. The old ones weren't it. This could be the start.
Second is poor use of the space in general. There's an overabundance of whitespace in some places - current HP and conditions, feats and class features. And silly use of it elsewhere - the item-slot picture (which, to be honest, isn't very good-looking anyway), the aforementioned rules text.
Personal opinion, my group who've seen it prefer the new version.
Secondly, white space and effective use of it aids comprehension and ease of reading. There's no magic formula to this but based on my layout background this works pretty well, moreso than the old sheet which could easily appear cluttered.
The layout of this one is a little different, but some people prefer it. All of the same kinds of information can be found on this sheet as the other one, it's just in different places and a different format. As always, let me know what you think. In the meantime I'll work on another post that addresses some of the questions in this thread.
Likes:
- The new look for the Power cards
- the entire Second Page
- The Skills section (I don't know why but I like that stylized check mark!)
- The Current Hit Points section (I know a lot of people that love big boxes like that).
- Changing from Black to Gray was a nice ascetic change
Dislikes:
- The Action Point section, its much too big and, IMO, needless. All you need is a tiny box to track the number of AP's you have right now. Your DM should be keeping track of Milestones.
- The large Second Wind Section, once again all I need is a small box
- The lack of extra weapon slots on the front page
- The Character portrait being on the front page - to me the front page should have all of the most pertinent information on it - the Portrait is not such an item. (I'd like the option to leave it blank and make the area into a notes section).
- The current conditions and Effects line under Resistances is needless (there's a section with the same title AND a much larger accompanying white/blank area just 1 column over).
- The lack of math on the AC and other defenses (It saves time to list off the math, though it doesn't have to be on the front page).
- The equipment section not having lines
The shadowed text in the boxes beneath the ability/skill numbers and in the attack space is there to remind people what the space is for when they need to pencil in some information.
As a personal opinion, I think the shadowed text could be lightened by about 10% to reduce the distraction.
Additionally, the text boxes don't appear to all have the same layout, numbers appear in one of two places (middle and one space left of middle - look down the left-hand column of the page), this should probably be standardised for neatness).
But my heart belongs to the Original 4th Edition Character Sheet.
Question: Is the Power Card format layout changing with Sheets or they all share the same format ?
How much text can we expect in the feat descriptions? Can we have a less text/more text option for feats?
Pretty much what you can see in the examples on the 2nd page of the character sheet in my first post. From all my run throughs, there's enough rules text to be able to use the feat. Currently there is no option to have more or less text in that section.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
Familiars and rituals?
The familiar feat shows up in the feat section, but the familiar itself does not currently show up on the character sheet. This is something we're looking into adding in a future update. There's also some cool talks about what we can do to display more ritual rules texts, so please don't be shy about sharing your ideas with us.
Alignment, Paragon Path and Epic Destiny don't appear to be fields on the sheets, or am I missing something?
You're right, I couldn't find any either. The only mention of paragon and epic destiny information pops up in the class abilities on the second page, but no mention of paragon and epic destiny name shows up. I've passed this along and I'm sure we'll have those added in a future update.
Basic attacks, just linked to the weapons currently equipped?
Yes, basic attacks are linked to the weapon you have currently equipped in the character builder/character sheet so there is no possibility of 17 different basic attacks.
Is the “Character Builder” Sheet available as a blank PDF?
Not at the moment, but if there's interest it might be something we can do. I'll do some asking and see what I can find out.
Can we get a sheet that shows the calculations?
It may be possible. Currently we have the two sheets at launch of the web-based CB, but we may be able to add more. Again, I'll do some asking and see what I can find out.
AP Power Card?
There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
Background benefit isn’t showing?
The background I chose was a pretty simple one, and it gave me a +2 to my arcana skill, which was just added into the skills section.
Have you done testing, do any of the testers play D&D? Will all problems that we find in these posts be fixed by the 16th?
We definitely do testing, and many of the members of the testing team, like many people at Wizards, play D&D. Even with that, we're still going to have some errors like those that people have found, and with all things digital we're likely to have small errors in future updates as well. Once reported, the bugs will be prioritized and fixed as soon as we're able. As to having some of these fixed by the 16th, it's possible but some may have to wait until a later date.
Well that's it for today. Tomorrow we should have a special addition to the daily updates. I'll try to get in and get that one up as early as possible.
Can we get a sheet that shows the calculations?It may be possible. Currently we have the two sheets at launch of the web-based CB, but we may be able to add more. Again, I'll do some asking and see what I can find out.
I don't think it is necessary for the character sheet to show calculations. The character sheet is for playing, and you don't need the calculations to play.
However, it is absolutely required to have the calculations in the builder somewhere so that we can see it when we are building characters. Like the way the current CB shows how it calculates your attack and damage for every power. There will be (and we have already seen evidence of) bugs in the online CB, and it is always wise to check the final numbers before actually playing your character.
AP Power Card?There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
Yeah, I think the Action Point "power" card is good, as well as the character summary cards (with defenses/stats/skills) as well.
I may not like some of the answers but I do appreciate getting some info from WOTC.
This testing thing is as I feared: just an internal (probably small) group looking at the product. The errors that have already shown up are almost certainly the tip of the iceberg. On the 16th, I think all of these feature requests will sort of be a wistful memory as we see how the actual product works.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned one of the great purposes of the lost feature of being able to hide Power Cards: you can choose several to hide (the summary, second wind, action point, etc.) in order to get your power card sheet down to a single (or two-sided) sheet.
What a shame that the backward stepping online CB is such a lame shadow of even its quirky and clunky predecessor.
I know that WOTC (unashamedly!) bandies about the "future" fix idea. Many of us already know to just ignore such talk so as not to be disappointed.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
Sadly yet another spot where the "new and improved" character builder doesn't even keep up with the old one... I guess we have to waste the paper and print out the power cards multiple times if we use multiple weapons/implements...
Serious question - Why didn't the dev team look at the current character builder when doing the specifications the new one? There seem to be a fair number of places where basic functionality was completely missed in the new design.
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Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?erdana">Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
It's important to be able to choose to have any weapons on your person displayed on your Power Cards and Basic Attacks. Some Characters often have different weapons for different situations and those need to be visible on the sheets and Cards.
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Familiars and rituals?erdana">The familiar feat shows up in the feat section, but the familiar itself does not currently show up on the character sheet. This is something we're looking into adding in a future update. There's also some cool talks about what we can do to display more ritual rules texts, so please don't be shy about sharing your ideas with us.
I always thought Rituals showing up as Cards was a good idea in the Classic CB. I would definitly try to keep that up.
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Can we get a sheet that shows the calculations?erdana">It may be possible. Currently we have the two sheets at launch of the web-based CB, but we may be able to add more. Again, I'll do some asking and see what I can find out.erdana">
It would be very appreciated to be able to see all proper calculations. It's truly an Aid for DMs and Players alike that the Sheet can display.
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AP Power Card?erdana">There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
Oh definitly wanted. AP Card is a nice reminder of your options "at hands" and definitly good to have.
Well that's it for today. Tomorrow we should have a special addition to the daily updates. I'll try to get in and get that one up as early as possible.
Thanks again for your time. Yes i expect the CB to have errors at launch and hope many good souls will join in to report all the bugs ans snags to help make it a better Tool.
Looking forward for more of your daily updates Trevor with lots of enthusiams and excitations. Keep up the good work guys. We are behind you.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
Trevor, this is just bad.
A lot of my character have more than one weapon for usage in different cases. For example a two-handed axe for melee and a throwing hammer for ranged. And since the axe will be normally equipped, then the basic ranged attack will have to be computed by me each time I need it. So please consider this a request for showing attacks/powers for multiple (selected) weapons.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
That's a step backwards in furntionality. Please fix this so one can choose which weapon(s) to display on the power cards.
Familiars and rituals?The familiar feat shows up in the feat section, but the familiar itself does not currently show up on the character sheet. This is something we're looking into adding in a future update. There's also some cool talks about what we can do to display more ritual rules texts, so please don't be shy about sharing your ideas with us.
Please fix this. Rituals may need to porint more text that can fit on a power card, so perhaps just listing them out ontheir own page(s) would work well.
Basic attacks, just linked to the weapons currently equipped?Yes, basic attacks are linked to the weapon you have currently equipped in the character builder/character sheet so there is no possibility of 17 different basic attacks.
Again, a step backwards in functionality, Please ifx.
Can we get a sheet that shows the calculations?It may be possible. Currently we have the two sheets at launch of the web-based CB, but we may be able to add more. Again, I'll do some asking and see what I can find out.
This woudl be nice, especially when customization gets allowed. It's very helpful.
AP Power Card?There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
Another loss in functionality. Please fix.
Background benefit isn’t showing?The background I chose was a pretty simple one, and it gave me a +2 to my arcana skill, which was just added into the skills section.
Another loss in functionality. The background needs to be printed on the character sheet.
As a high priority, please get the character sheet to be at least as functional as the current one. We seem to be taking several step backwards in functionality.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
That's a step backwards in furntionality. Please fix this so one can choose which weapon to display on the power cards.
It's not just that.. we had the ability to choose multiple weapons on the Power Card. That's actually quite important.
Examples:
- Twin Strike: I have a player who uses a Longbow, Longsword, and Short Sword with Twin Strike.
- Sly Flourish. I have a rogue who has used a Short Sword, Dagger, and a Sling with Sly Flourish. He needs to have quick reference to what each does when used. They all have differing Attack Bonuses.
I could go on.
It really is important to have more than one weapon displayed on the power cards at our disposal. Before we could easily do it with the customize option.
The Character is 11th level with 26000 XP
Just beneath that the text reads Next Level at: 39000
12th level is 32000 XP.
Just a few screen shots and the bugs are adding up.
The 16th of November is going to be huge debacle.
On the Essentials sheet there isn't even a place for XP at all (nor on the following sheets).
Yeah, this is what internal testing gets you.
Jesus, just look at the XP section.
The Character is 11th level with 26000 XP
Just beneath that the text reads Next Level at: 39000
12th level is 32000 XP.
Just a few screen shots and the bugs start adding up more and more.
The 16th of November is going to be huge debacle.
On the Essentials sheet there isn't even a place for XP at all (nor on the following sheets).
Yeah, this is what internal testing gets you.
Wow. Just wow.
Any explanation for this? Hopefully this was a character halfway between being levelled up from 11 to 12 or something?
To add something, the sheets are nice for new players. It would be nice to have one specifically for a more advanced player. I consider this pretty important.
It would also be nice to have something that is jaw-droppingly sexily beautiful for those that want to do a full-color print and have it look amazing. The later can be added much later of course, but there isn't a reason, given technology, not to offer something truly stunning.
What about hiding power cards? Generally how well can you customize what's being displayed. It would also be very important to me to be able to show the math and modify it (like if a GM house ruled something) relatively easily.
I don't think it looks very appealing , and would wish for it to be more efficient (scrolling on an itty bitty screen is a pain.) I think is the thrust of my statement.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
That's a step backwards in furntionality. Please fix this so one can choose which weapon to display on the power cards.
It's not just that.. we had the ability to choose multiple weapons on the Power Card. That's actually quite important.Examples:
- Twin Strike: I have a player who uses a Longbow, Longsword, and Short Sword with Twin Strike.
- Sly Flourish. I have a rogue who has used a Short Sword, Dagger, and a Sling with Sly Flourish. He needs to have quick reference to what each does when used. They all have differing Attack Bonuses.
I could go on.
It really is important to have more than one weapon displayed on the power cards at our disposal. Before we could easily do it with the customize option.
This is a very significant issue. I've had players with the exact setup you describe. I've played a ruthless ruffian rogue with rattling powers that had different attack and damage bonuses for mace, dagger and sling. It's not like it's some strange thing only someone running a hybrid character would run into.
I have to echo some of the other posters on the multiple weapons issue. I have a ranger PC in my campaign with Twin Strike. He uses a waraxe and a handaxe. This lets him use Twin Strike in melee with two weapons, or throw his handaxes to get two ranged attacks in. So, we need a power card that shows the melee and ranged potential attacks (also has Iron Armbands of Power, so the melee attack has +2 damage that should not be in the ranged attack).
Consider adding the background benefit back in, if it's easy to do. It'd be nice to see the mechanical benefit even with the simple choices.
Certainly find a spot for XP on the Essentials sheet.
Glad to hear Rituals are being looked at. I don't have any spectacular ideas for formatting the output for them, but I would like the option to print out the full rules for them with my character (please do make this optional, as others have noted, they probably don't change too much and it'd be nice not to have to reprint them everytime I need to reprint the rest of the character sheet).
Thanks again,
-Scot
It is easy to see what is happening here and it's hard to say if what WOTC is doing now is worse than the stringing-along we enjoyed for all those months.. We will START testing a pre-alpha piece of software on the 16th (and we will get to pay for the privilege).
We will START testing a pre-alpha piece of software on the 16th (and we will get to pay for the privilege).
The statement above appears to be the trueist statement yet about the online character builder. The optimum solution would have been to continue updating the current character building while offering an online character builder to test. Once the two versions match in value, then you could drop the older version. As it is, until the new character builder gets updated a few months to a year from now to match the current product, most people will ignore it except for trying to build an Essentials character or a Dark Sun character.
We will START testing a pre-alpha piece of software on the 16th (and we will get to pay for the privilege).
The statement above appears to be the trueist statement yet about the online character builder. The optimum solution would have been to continue updating the current character building while offering an online character builder to test. Once the two versions match in value, then you could drop the older version. As it is, until the new character builder gets updated a few months to a year from now to match the current product, most people will ignore it except for trying to build an Essentials character or a Dark Sun character.
Releasing the new CB without any exclusive content would be foolish (from a business perspective) as it cuts the draw of your future product and increases the value of a product you plan to drop. What would likely have happened if they had waited to implement the new CB would be that the old one would continue to get no new updates.
Does it do calculations for more than one weapon/implement at a time?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
Does that mean it doesn't switch between implement and weapon depending on the type of power and what's wielded? Well that's...annoying. I and my group will have to keep using the old one until this is fixed.
Alignment, Paragon Path and Epic Destiny don't appear to be fields on the sheets, or am I missing something?
You're right, I couldn't find any either. The only mention of paragon and epic destiny information pops up in the class abilities on the second page, but no mention of paragon and epic destiny name shows up. I've passed this along and I'm sure we'll have those added in a future update.
That's...irritating as well, It really needs to be on somewhere.
Is there an ETA on updates? With the statements made i'd hope we won't have to wait a month each time for them, given there's no need to take anything down to update and/or download.
Also it was nice to have a Card with a resume of your Character Defense and Passives (Perception/Insight). DM likes those.
I clip them on my DM Screen
I'd need to see one printed out and use it in play but these look great from the previews.
Cheers
Richard
Second Wind Card.
Also it was nice to have a Card with a resume of your Character Defense and Passives (Perception/Insight). DM likes those.
I clip them on my DM Screen
Seconded
Alignment, Paragon Path and Epic Destiny don't appear to be fields on the sheets, or am I missing something?
You're right, I couldn't find any either. The only mention of paragon and epic destiny information pops up in the class abilities on the second page, but no mention of paragon and epic destiny name shows up. I've passed this along and I'm sure we'll have those added in a future update.
This, right here, is why you won't be getting any more of my money. Your entire testing team and your software people thought it was ready for prime time and you didn't even realize you'd left out a pretty major component of character building. I guess you guys do play D&D, but you never play past level 10? And not using alignment at all anywhere at Wizards is a pretty bold houserule. You should give us a Dragon article about how you work that.
All this means though is nothing without an estimate of when "later" or "soon" will be. As people are spotting the functionality of the new software is lower than the last. Saying "We'll eventually get it back up to where we are with the other software" with even an estimate of when that will be is meaningless. It doesn't help people make informed decisions. A customer hanging on for an anticipated feature indefinately is seldom a happy one.
When are we looking for these features? This year? Q1 next year? later?
I would also guess no one is playing with these sheets either for long enough for many of these things to be apparent. There are significant signs of "author blindness" present in these things. These sheets show what the designers expect them to show, exposure to a group outside the designers has immediately revealed issues.
Now I hate the black monstrosity that is the PHB sheet, and the wCB is useless to me without either export or the ability to use it like iPlay4E.com, but for those who want to use it and print characters ASAP this is indeed a lot of problems that shouldn't exist this close to launch.
I would also like to add my voice to the call for AP and Second Wind cards, selectable weapons/implements for each power (like the classic CB), and also for including the attack and damage totals for secondary/tertiary attacks and damaging effects.
Until some of these things are fixed, I will probably continue to use my homebrew essentials sheet that gives me room to add all the info I need to play the character on one page, using the CB to create the character and for the power cards.
Basic attacks, just linked to the weapons currently equipped?
Yes, basic attacks are linked to the weapon you have currently equipped in the character builder/character sheet so there is no possibility of 17 different basic attacks.
While I am not excessive like some folks may be with weapons, this is bad.
Unless I am misunderstanding, at a minimum it needs to calculate the equiped melee weapon, the off-hand weapon (if applicable), and the unequipmed ranged weapon (if applicable).
And, incase your a primary ranged person, flip it around to read, at a minimum it needs to calculate the equiped ranged weapon, the off-hand weapon (if applicable), and the unequipmed melee weapon (if applicable).
Let me suggest, place a checkbox next to each weapon in your equipment list, to tell the program what weapon calculations you want to appear on your sheets, or like before, right+click and customize the card sheet itself.
or like before, right+click and customize the card sheet itself.
So another useful feature removed?
Calculations are done for the weapon in your main hand. For attacks that need you to have two weapons, the power cards verify that you have two weapons in those hands and will do the calculations for the attack bonus.
{snip}
Yes, basic attacks are linked to the weapon you have currently equipped in the character builder/character sheet so there is no possibility of 17 different basic attacks.
This is a problem. If I have multiple weapons, I need to know the basic attacks of all of them. Although the classic CB didn't perfectly handle multi-weapon attack powers, it definitely had the right idea in letting you choose to display as many weapons as you want on power cards and for your basic attacks.
There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
Not a huge problem for me, as my group already has a couple dozen action point cards printed on heavy card stock. However, if we didn't already have a bunch of them made, we would need them from the web CB. AP cards are how we keep track of how many action points everybody has. After a milestone, the DM hands out AP cards to everyone. When they're used, they're given back to the DM.
I won't reiterate the other points that others have brought up, but suffice to say that most of them are pretty important. WotC, you really need to fix these issues ASAP. Waiting until December for fixes to some of these will be uncool in a big way. The classic CB I have installed now is woefully out of date, and the web CB that is coming out next week will not yet be in a state where I am able to use it. You're really leaving a lot of us hanging for a long time, here. I'd like to start using Dark Sun content, and I really don't want to wait until December.
Basic attacks, just linked to the weapons currently equipped?
Yes, basic attacks are linked to the weapon you have currently equipped in the character builder/character sheet so there is no possibility of 17 different basic attacks.
While I am not excessive like some folks may be with weapons, this is bad.
Unless I am misunderstanding, at a minimum it needs to calculate the equiped melee weapon, the off-hand weapon (if applicable), and the unequipmed ranged weapon (if applicable).
And, incase your a primary ranged person, flip it around to read, at a minimum it needs to calculate the equiped ranged weapon, the off-hand weapon (if applicable), and the unequipmed melee weapon (if applicable).
Let me suggest, place a checkbox next to each weapon in your equipment list, to tell the program what weapon calculations you want to appear on your sheets, or like before, right+click and customize the card sheet itself.
Or, more importantly perhaps, weapons and implements. It's not like classes which use both are rare (Paladin, straight out of the box, along with other Divine classes. Any number of hybrids. Many builds of other classes.) nor is it like the different weapons and implements are unimportant. It's also not like the old CB did this perfectly either - it was somewhat unrealiable in realising that certain weapons had certain options. But to rule out the possibility of doing it at all, or customising it at all without remaking the character with different options... this is a baffling decision.
Character Builder has long been known to contain small math errors with certain Feat or Power combinations and the only way to be sure the numbers are correct is to display them. I do not want to be stuck in a situation where my scrap sheet math differs from CB and I am unable to determine why.
Further, DMs usually want a way to verify your numbers and other players often want to know the math as well, to see if they are missing some benefit on their own character. Showing the Attack and Damage Worksheet was a 5 second way to allow a DM or player to do that.
The character sheet customization of the existing CB was a prominent selling point. Stop taking away features!
To sum this up, we can no longer re-arrange the sheets to our liking, we cannot put multiple weapons on our Power cards, and there is no plan to update the Classic version with Rules Updates and Dark Sun or Essentials? We can choose between an out-of-date but feature complete tool, or an up-to-date, but incomplete tool? I will delay my decision until I have actually used this new Character Builder, but right now I am leaning towards these decisions causing me to cancel my Insider subscription.
)I also think the new sheets are too sparse on information. The character sheet should fit onto two pages (I print duplex - so one piece of paper) not including the power cards. It must also print well and be readable in monocrome (ie on a black and white laser). Fancy backgrounds and shadow text often either disappears or becomes much darker.
Finally I am concerned with the level of infrastructure testing that may have been done. When all of the math and other information crunching was being done on thousands of PCs around the world they were not exactly quick. Now it will all be done on servers provided centrally. I hope they are up to the task.
The 16th will be interesting.
AP Power Card?
There isn't an Action Point card at this time. If that's something people would really like to have, let me know and I'll see if we can get it added.
I definitely want an Action Point card, with Paragon Path information on it like it was in the old CB. I'm used to having all my powers/options on cards and if the AP isn't on a card I'm worried that I, or players in a game I run, will forget about it. And if you have a Paragon character it's very handy to have their AP power (if they have one) right there on the AP card to remind you.
I just bought HotFL and I also downloaded the new sheets and just... am very frustrated with their inefficient use of space.
The pre-essentials one you can download from the wizards site is the best one yet. It's very intuitive, I know exactly what is supposed to go where and has space for where every bit of the given stat comes from which is good for when something changes one or more of your stats/ skills etc.
For the record the one I'm talking about is labeled "4th Edition Character Sheets"on this page:
www.wizards.com/dnd/Tool.aspx?x=dnd/4new...
And best of all if you print page 1 on one side and page 2 on the other it still only takes 1 sheet of paper but fits pretty much all the info you need. (Power texts aside)
Though I usually use a second sheet of line paper for aditional notes on current effects etc.
Please add the real "4th Edition Character Sheets" to the CB.
The shadowed text in the boxes beneath the ability/skill numbers and in the attack space is there to remind people what the space is for when they need to pencil in some information.
The essentials sheet is missing passive perception/insight.
There was a fan made upgrade of the essentials sheet that was totally awesome. It is sad that you didn't look at it.
The two formats we have are called "Essentials" and "Character Builder." I personally love the "Character Builder" format so I'll start with that one.
This first page has all the basics stats you would need from a quick glance including skills, defenses, hit points, attacks and passive numbers.
This looks great! I would make only one request: can additional action point effects be listed in the Action Point section, rather than as a feature on the next page? They're easy to forget!
I'd prefer this to the reminder of when you get more APs since - certainly for my players - those rules come up so often they rarely need clarification. The space is better used for stuff unique to the character, I think.
Sorry to keep you waiting on more goodies and answers, but hopefully you're liking the amount of info you're seeing so far and I'll be able to keep it up until we get to next week and the launch of the CB.
And if the basic attacks section doesn't allow you to insert powers that can be used as basic attacks (like the CBC did), that needs to be implemented as well. Doesn't do my avenger any good to show his mighty +3 melee basic attack when he'll only ever use overwhelming strike.
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Sorry to keep you waiting on more goodies and answers, but hopefully you're liking the amount of info you're seeing so far and I'll be able to keep it up until we get to next week and the launch of the CB.
Definitely liking the amount of info... not so happy with the info itself when every list of answered questions reads like of a list of things that it doesn't do as well as the CBC.
I would also like to make another plee to have the choice of saving in the Cloud City thing or on my own HD, from the WEBCB menu.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Sorry to keep you waiting on more goodies and answers, but hopefully you're liking the amount of info you're seeing so far and I'll be able to keep it up until we get to next week and the launch of the CB.
Trevor,
Very pleased with the new levels of communication, but I'm aware this is all about the new Character Builder that you have already advertised and that is out in a week's time.
What I'd like to know is:
Are you planning on extending this level of communications to the rest of DDi?
i.e. the online Monster Builder, the other online tools, what you are working on, what we can hope for, things we can expect, things you'd like our opinions on, etc?
This is a really big issue for a lot of us - can you at least tell us what the plans are for communication going forward?
Many thanks
Blakey
- Player Name & RPGA Number
- Total XP & Next Level
- 3 Failed Death Saving Throws Strike.
- Saving Throw Modifier
- Size
- Age
- Deity
- Passives Perception & Insight
- Resistances
- Current Conditions & Effect
- Action Point
- Second Wind
- Show Trained Skills
- Character Portrait
And the Character Builder Sheet is missing:
- Gender
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Sorry to keep you waiting on more goodies and answers, but hopefully you're liking the amount of info you're seeing so far and I'll be able to keep it up until we get to next week and the launch of the CB.
Trevor,
Very pleased with the new levels of communication, but I'm aware this is all about the new Character Builder that you have already advertised and that is out in a week's time.
What I'd like to know is:
Are you planning on extending this level of communications to the rest of DDi?
i.e. the online Monster Builder, the other online tools, what you are working on, what we can hope for, things we can expect, things you'd like our opinions on, etc?
This is a really big issue for a lot of us - can you at least tell us what the plans are for communication going forward?
Many thanks
Blakey
+1
Ramius
[H]opefully you're liking the amount of info you're seeing so far and I'll be able to keep it up until we get to next week and the launch of the CB.
All of the communication is incredibly helpful. Even though there are a lot of (valid) complaints about the character sheets, the tone of these complaints has been much more constructive, too, so the communication seems to be both appreciated and useful!
I am liking what I am seeing, even though I share a lot of the complaints that have been made here already. The sooner we get the new version to match the functionality of the Classis, the better.
Also LOVING the increased level of communication.
Regardless, yes, we've been notified that new sheets are going to get added. They just won't be available at launch.
Also, I personally do not like the Essentials character sheet at all (the one featured in the video) - it feels too much like a stripped down version of the original that still takes up the same page space.
I love 4E, and the Essential stuff is nice, but I hope everything doesn't go over the the Essentials style where everything is a quick-choice/dumbed-down version of the fully customizable 4E. I know that WotC has stated time and again that everything will not go over to Essentials format, but there is one announcement after another that appears to contradict that.
I'm also wondering if Muls and Thri-Kreen will be usable in all settings or just for DS? I really wany me some Muls.
So does this mean that the original 4E character sheet (y'know, the main one we've all been using) is in the crapper already?
Also, I personally do not like the Essentials character sheet at all (the one featured in the video) - it feels too much like a stripped down version of the original that still takes up the same page space.
I love 4E, and the Essential stuff is nice, but I hope everything doesn't go over the the Essentials style where everything is a quick-choice/dumbed-down version of the fully customizable 4E. I know that WotC has stated time and again that everything will not go over to Essentials format, but there is one announcement after another that appears to contradict that.
I'm also wondering if Muls and Thri-Kreen will be usable in all settings or just for DS? I really wany me some Muls.
Crossing my fingers as I reply to this based on how I have interpreted the information so far. I believe all races are available however to get themes you have to pick DS.
So does this mean that the original 4E character sheet (y'know, the main one we've all been using) is in the crapper already?
No. It means exactly the opposite of what you thought it meant. The original 4e sheet is not in the crapper. It just won't be available at launch.
Oh, okay. I'm not certain how that's the opposite of what I thought, but I'm glad it will be a future option.
Also, I'm honestly not trying to be a jag about it, I just don't know how something not being included at launch would automatically imply it would definitely be in there later. And I'm not entirely opposed to the new CB sheet (although I still don't like the Essentials one), I've just gotten accustomed to the o.g. version as of late and was surprised it was absent as an option (initially).
Thanks for the info though - I feel better about it now.
didn't i mention that you could stop cross-posting before?
Regardless, yes, we've been notified that new sheets are going to get added. They just won't be available at launch.
YOU ARE THE MAN!
So does this mean that the original 4E character sheet (y'know, the main one we've all been using) is in the crapper already?
No. It means exactly the opposite of what you thought it meant. The original 4e sheet is not in the crapper. It just won't be available at launch.
Who's bright idea was it to build a new character builder and have the official character sheet not available at launch?
Who's bright idea was it to build a new character builder and have the official character sheet not available at launch?
If it really matters, and it really means that much to you, I'll take responsibility. Vent away. Get it all out. Hopefully, we can all get through this together.
Who's bright idea was it to build a new character builder and have the official character sheet not available at launch?
If it really matters, and it really means that much to you, I'll take responsibility. Vent away. Get it all out. Hopefully, we can all get through this together.
How could you have done this...it's like I don't even know you.
How could you have done this...it's like I don't even know you.
There, there, Mock. *offers a comforting hand upon Mock's shoulder* It will be okay. We were caught up in the newness of the CB and wanted to give you all something new that represents our overwhelming joy about the new builder. We will get the original character sheets out to you soon enough. That comfort level will return and all will be right with the world.
I'm curious why the new character sheets still have the all the boxes and lines as if the text was written in by hand. It's not like you need a line to put where the character's name goes; just put the name. Also, I hope the size and alignment of the text is just because it's still in beta. Especially in the Essentials sheet. The font doesn't match the static text.
I'd love for the same amount of thought and design to go into revising the power cards.
Switching from three columns to two makes the final layout look like a 1st graders art project.
The 'numbers from nowhere' layout makes it nearly impossible to adjust on the fly.
ie. Does this include my shield? What happens if I remove my Boots of Quickness? Do I already have and enhancement/power/racial/feat bonus added in? The CBC had an issue with 'other' bonuses in the calcs that made you track them down. This makes you research everything.
Lose the fuzzies. Putting in enough art to make it worthwhile just causes clutter. Putting in too little makes it look half-finished. This layout doesnt even get to the half-finished level.
All in all. Go back to the CBC sheet. This is three steps in the wrong direction.
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Does those cool bits include at least some of all those missing mounts?
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Tomorrow morning was yesterday morning. Did I miss the update? If so, my apologies. If not, it may be worth noting that in this volatile point in DDI's life that you may want to adhere to what you tell the community, particularly regarding issues of communication, which is supposed to be a new focus of Wizards.
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Tomorrow morning was yesterday morning. Did I miss the update? If so, my apologies. If not, it may be worth noting that in this volatile point in DDI's life that you may want to adhere to what you tell the community, particularly regarding issues of communication, which is supposed to be a new focus of Wizards.
Was the update perhaps the video? I forget when that was posted.
In any case, the idea of "saying when the next status update will be and then never missing that deadline" is crucial. With that, even updates that say "not much to update today" will be better received.
Hey all. I was hoping to have some cool bits for you today but it didn't come together as fast as I thought it would. It looks like I'll be able to come back and share some more coolness tomorrow morning. I'll be here tomorrow morning either way to let you know.
Tomorrow morning was yesterday morning. Did I miss the update? If so, my apologies. If not, it may be worth noting that in this volatile point in DDI's life that you may want to adhere to what you tell the community, particularly regarding issues of communication, which is supposed to be a new focus of Wizards.
He posted the video yesterday morning PST.
Does those cool bits include at least some of all those missing mounts?
Lol! Keep up the good work! I'm now rooting for ya!
We want mounts! We want mounts!!
Based on peoples sigs & my players, people are going to want to load their own character portraits. Is there an option for loading custom potrait images?
He posted the video yesterday morning PST.
Got it, thanks. There was no update to this thread so I could not tell if they were related.
Again, my apologies.
I like the new builder but the 3 sheets seems extraneous. The old one seemed fine and had all the information I wanted. Then again I'm old and change scares and confuses me :p
He posted the video yesterday morning PST.
Got it, thanks. There was no update to this thread so I could not tell if they were related.
Again, my apologies.
It is only my assumption, it could be that something else cool is coming as soon as Trevor has it ready.
WHAT EVER OPTIONS WE HAD BEFORE!
Why can't we print more then one weapon on a card?
Why can't we have an AP card? Did someone really feel strongly enough not to print that?
I want my character sheet to tell me my paragon path, epic destiny AND XP. Not real sure those are optional.
I just want a functioning Character Builder, and by functioning I mean, at least as functional as the Classic. And has ponies for Cathak.
Oh and I don't want to be talked to like a 3rd grader, no, 1st grader.
At level 11, I don't need to know that My "Speed is is the number of squares you can move with a move action."
I just don't know anything anymore.
We will START testing a pre-alpha piece of software on the 16th (and we will get to pay for the privilege).
What I want is real simple.
WHAT EVER OPTIONS WE HAD BEFORE!
Oh and I don't want to be talked to like a 3rd grader, no, 1st grader.
It feels condescending to me.
If I was brand new to D&D I might need to know what REFLEX was the first 2 times I played, but since I've been playing for 21 years, I don't need to know that, nor what SPEED is or how ATTACK BONUSES work.
That don't impress me much.
That would mean 4 years of beta testing, and they still didn't get it right.
That don't impress me much.
*snorts*
This man wins the thread. We're done here folks.
At a Game Day, sure. But for me, and anyone that I play with in my two different groups, the Essentials sheet have a bunch of wasted text.
I've been playing D&D for 21 years. I've been playing 4e since before 4e was officially released, March 2008. Thanks to ENWorld and all the preview material.
Both sheets have way too much white space.
/facepalm
That would mean 4 years of beta testing, and they still didn't get it right.
That don't impress me much.
It impressed me, but not the good way.
Does no one else feel that explaining what SPEED does on the character sheet is unnessesary?
At a Game Day, sure. But for me, and anyone that I play with in my two different groups, the Essentials sheet have a bunch of wasted text.
I've been playing D&D for 21 years. I've been playing 4e since before 4e was officially released, March 2008. Thanks to ENWorld and all the preview material.
Unnecessary for me. Thus why I probably wouldn't use that sheet. Possibly useful for someone new to the game, thus why I have no problem with it being available. I might be irked if it were the only sheet available, but its not so...
I'll try and take a look at it for the one day I'll still have a active account before my account expires, although I can't currently log in, the site does not think I exist, but I'm not liking the new sheet at all. None of the info I want is there, none of the flexibility, and so forth.
Judging by their past rate of progress, I'll take a look at the online builder again in a year or so, if I'm still playing, to see if its worth signing up again. Although I am not expecting much at this point.
I do appreciate the communication, its just too bad that no one seems to pay any attention to how their users are actually using their products.
As others have said a lot of the things I use on the current sheet are missing. Putting your speed, passives, and initiative at the bottom left instead of the top, when these are some of the most used numbers in the game, is not really a good idea. Those should be where the portrait is.
While I don't actually disagree with you, I would like to point out that most often used does not equate most often referenced.
It's important that those numbers are on the sheet. It could be argued how important specific placement is.
Obviously, I could spend hours nitpicking over where I'd like fields, font sizes for readability, the expansion of certain categories adding to more pages being printed out, etc. However, my feeling on this is that the sheet, as shown, does the job not only adeqately but very well. In some ways, it is superior to the old sheet. In some way, it is not. However, overall, it seems well done.
As others have said a lot of the things I use on the current sheet are missing. Putting your speed, passives, and initiative at the bottom left instead of the top, when these are some of the most used numbers in the game, is not really a good idea. Those should be where the portrait is.
While I don't actually disagree with you, I would like to point out that most often used does not equate most often referenced.
It's important that those numbers are on the sheet. It could be argued how important specific placement is.
Agreed. In fact, numbers you use every turn, like speed, or attack bonus (for most chars) get's memorized quickly and referenced the least.
I've been thinking about this and here is a case where WotC can leverage the community. If they were to release the server side files for the character sheet (html/css) I'm sure they could get lots of submissions for alternate character sheets and all it would take is one of their programmers auditing them for anything malicious instead of having to create them.
Ok wait for it....
Do you hear that sound?
That is the sound of a character sheet contest!
Game on!
Regards
Ok wait for it.... Do you hear that sound? That is the sound of a character sheet contest! Game on! Regards
Best. Idea. Ever.
I had a whole pile of comments lined up, most sarcastic and many down right angry. After reading this thread I am a bit calmer as I realize that everything I wanted to say has been said.
What a fiasco..
/auto renew off.
I understand some people like to use them to track initiative as well.
I suppose I could jot this stuff down, but, uh, isn't the point of Character Builder to keep me from having to do that?
I'm back as planned with some quick information and images. This time around it's the character sheet options that will be available in next week's Character Builder. Currently we have two different character sheet formats you can view and print out for your characters. Now, I am a bit late with this today so we'll get one up and I'll try to get the other up tomorrow.
The two formats we have are called "Essentials" and "Character Builder." I personally love the "Character Builder" format so I'll start with that one.
I really like the new character sheets, specially the CB one. I particularly like the portrait being on page 1 as well as how clean and uncluttered it looks. Also the easy to read shield-like symbols for Defenses are a really nice touch.
UPDATE: After playing around with it some more, I believe the character sheets are being saved as images and not rendered text. Unless there is a change in how the sheets are rendered then the PDFs saved from them are really just images.
Can you please change that or offer a way to get an optimized PDF out of it? I didn't have this problem before.
Can anyone else confirm they are having a similar issue? I'm using a Mac now to Save as PDF but it's never saved something as an image unless it is.
(Interesting [to me] side note -- the WebCB in Win7 was noticeably slower than running it under MacOS X.)
Print is rendering as a bitmap, its taking up about 150MB per page to spool the document to print. This can take several minutes, while this is happening the CB sometimes goes kind of grey and can't be used until the print is done.
I recommend having several GB free on C: if you want to print something, and be ready to be patient.
Oh yea, if you have multiple of something in your inventory, such as daggers, the character sheet just lists "Dagger", not the number of them.
Until the online CB has the official Character sheet from the PHB i wont use it. If i wanted simplified things that look as if it was designed by a intern that played to much mmos i would go somewhere else.
The new character builder character sheet even has only half a page off information on it when it is printed.
Not to mention that it lacks most of the information needed to know about your character.
So far all we have been given from the new character builder and the new character sheets have been a reduction in usability and information presented in a intuitive way.
Your marketplace system in the new online CB is such a disaster that i think i will give it to a few friends as a perfect example of how not to build the UI elements in any application.
Am I the only one that doesn't get power cards? There are none. There isn't even anywhere on the sheet listing which powers my character has. I get three pages and that's it.
I could not get them to show until i changed my location from sweden where i am to USA then they showed up.
Again it shows how little wizards has tested their application.
But it looks like some sort of bug with imported characters. I created a new one and they came up just fine. Once again this is another reason reinforcing my decision to cancel. One last chance didn't work out for them.
Somebody please FIX spiked shields once and for all. They have never worked and surely it can't be that complicated to fix?
We need the multiple background function back in and each background should be listed along with the chosen background benefit. What we don't need is the official text for the backgrounds - it almost never fits with the actual background of the character and just takes up space.
Ritual cards, including the time required and gp cost, are essential. Rituals are scattered throughout numerous books and Dragon articles and it really slows the game if players have to look them up because information from the sheet is missing.
Although a long time in coming, the old AP card was great on the old CB sheet. It would be even cooler if feats that function on an AP could appear on the card in addition to the PP benefits.
My familar skill bonus isn't appearing on my sheet in addition to the missing cat itself.
Surely someone has noticed this and it's just in another thread? Maybe the CB bug thread?
As it is, I think both of these character sheets are unusable to me (particularly wizards/mages) in their current form, and unfortunately, the data cannot be exported. So, there my mage sits, up there in his pretty little cloud. And no one will ever play him.
-DS